Twilight Sparkle?

[user1342342 143]

 

 

Twilight pretty much outshines every single pony, in every possible way.

 

 

No, not in every possible way. I already said that Twi isn't absolutely perfect.

 

 

 

 I believe the problem might be related with you, rather than twilight. This being the reason why I made up a somehow opposite perspective to yours. 

 

 

An idiotic one where I adore some badly written character.

 

 

This is the "feeling" of your question. How does it feel?

 

 

Piss off.

[#1FluttershyFan 206]

I agree with you and I don't like her. I see her as a bit of a Mary Sue because she has almost no flaws and is usually just solving her friends mistakes but hardly dealing with any of her own. I liked her more before she became an Alicorn but now, it seems like everything just works out for her. The only recent episode that has actually been about some problem  for Twilight was Castle Sweet Castle and that wasn't a character trait so much as a little problem. The only thing that was worse than her wings was the huge castle she got at the end of season 4. I get that it was just another toy to sell but it just made her seem more perfect and princessy with a huge castle.

Twilight is way more spontaneous than rainbow dash, more honest and reliable than applejack, she's also more charismatic than pinkie pie, way more sensitive and caring than fluttershy. She's the very avatar of creativity, way beyond rarity. And her purplish color is prettier than Spike's.

Not only that, she's got bigger wings, and a crown too!

She's pretty special, isn't she?

 

That's the reason I don't like her. She makes up for every other character in the episode and they might as well not even be there since she takes away and improves their biggest trait. She's the one who is always okay and that's why I said she's  a Mary Sue. She perfect in every way and her one flaw was her worrying about deadlines and rules and stuff like that but that was pretty much eliminated in seasons 4 and 5 since she didn't have any.

[221BTardisSt 101]

I don't have time to read everybody's comments right now, so pardon me if I echo someone else, but I think that Twilight would have been a much better character if she had not become an alicorn. Before her transformation, she was to some degree equal to the mane six. Her friends helped her, and she helped her friends; however, now that she's an alicorn, it's not so much of a give-and-take relationship anymore, which is why I personally don't like alicorn Twilight as much as I do the other ponies. 

 

Furthermore, I don't think becoming an alicorn was necessary for Twilight. It gives her the same "unbeatable" quality that makes so many people dislike characters like superman. Everybody likes to root for an underdog with strong moral character, but if you pitch a boot against an ant (Avengers!), it takes other qualities, like courage and determination, out of the equation.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

I think that Twilight would have been a much better character if she had not become an alicorn. Before her transformation, she was to some degree equal to the mane six.

 

 

How exactly? She still had trivial flaws, she was still ridiculously overpowered, she was still treated like a super special snowflake by the world.

 

I thought she was annoying, the others were far more interesting.

 

 

 

Furthermore, I don't think becoming an alicorn was necessary for Twilight

 

 

Agreed. 

[221BTardisSt 101]

 

 

How exactly? She still had trivial flaws, she was still ridiculously overpowered, she was still treated like a super special snowflake by the world.

 

I thought she was annoying, the others were far more interesting.

 

 

I meant to "some degree" because of being one of the main three races, but I absolutely agree that she was still too "perfect."

[user1342342 143]

 

 

Well, Just like they have shown and explained in the show, She is what holds the mane 6 togheter.

 

 

She could be written differently and still be the leader.

 

 

 

Friendship's core traits are Generosity, Honesty, Laughter, Kindness and Loyalty. Magic is the catalyst that keeps them all bound together; yet Magic is useless without them.

 

 

Magic doesn't keep friends together, being a good friend does. Magic can also work without the elements.

 

 

 

Twilight wasn't able to fix everything by herself when Discord returned;

 

 

Let me hammer this point in, Twilight is not absolutely perfect, and she does make mistakes. 

 

 

In what exact ways do you consider Twilight to be unfairly glorified over her friends?

 

I've been over this. 

 

 

 

Twilight's Kingdom explicitly showed that she is completely useless without them and their friendship.

 

The others were just there as a plot device to activate the elements. That's all they ever really do against the big baddies. Twilight was also rewarded with a freaking castle, and a speech to remind us again of how "special" she is.

 

 

 

Just because they're not Alicorns does not mean they're any less important.

 

 

Twilight never needed to be an alicorn.

[Xenomorphic 362]

Twilight Sparkle Or Swilight Tparkle?

[user1342342 143]

Twilight Sparkle Or Swilight Tparkle?

 

What? How about neither. 

 

I don't really have much else to say about Twilight. The show would be allot better if she was just gone, or replaced. She can go fulfill her "destiny" somewhere else. The other characters are what make the show, they actually have potential to grow as characters, unlike the nearly perfect sparkle butt. 

[Prince Firemane 309]

 

Magic doesn't keep friends together, being a good friend does. Magic can also work without the elements.

 

And Twilight is a good friend, so that's moot. Magic does not work without the other Elements, I've already explained why and it has nothing to do with Twilight being so much more special than the rest of her friends.

 

 

Let me hammer this point in, Twilight is not absolutely perfect, and she does make mistakes. 

Um, that's the point I've been trying to make. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything you've posted here predicated on your opinion that Twilight is perfect and you don't like it?

 

 

The others were just there as a plot device to activate the elements. That's all they ever really do against the big baddies. Twilight was also rewarded with a freaking castle, and a speech to remind us again of how "special" she is.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? Didn't you just say that Magic can work without the other Elements? I hammered this home with Clover, let me do it again. Twilight, despite having the power of four Alicorns on her side, was not able to defeat Tirek. She was the closest thing to a goddess that this show ever had and she still wasn't able to defeat him. Why? Because she acted alone. She needs her friends just as much, if not more than they need her. But once she knew what to do and embraced her friendship, she inspired Discord to do the same, and thus received the meaningful gift that became her key. She followed the exact same stipulations as the others did to gain her key and together, they all defeated Tirek. Also, they all have equal seats in the castle, they all had equal part in summoning the map. To once again quote Celestia; "What is the Princess of Friendship without her friends?" Nothing, that's what and Twilight's Kingdom poignantly proved that.

 

 

Twilight never needed to be an alicorn.

Agreed, but she's not a bad character because of it.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

And Twilight is a good friend, so that's moot.

 

 

I know she is, I never argued against that. 

 

 

 

Magic does not work without the other Elements

 

 

We've seen magic work without the elements.

 

 

 

Um, that's the point I've been trying to make. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything you've posted here predicated on your opinion that Twilight is perfect and you don't like it?

 

 

Go back and pay attention to what I wrote. 

 

 

 

Twilight, despite having the power of four Alicorns on her side, was not able to defeat Tirek. She was the closest thing to a goddess that this show ever had and she still wasn't able to defeat him. Why? Because she acted alone. She needs her friends just as much, if not more than they need her.

 

 

Yes, Twilight needed them to defeat an all powerful monster. This has nothing to do with my reasons for disliking her. 

 

 

 

they all defeated Tirek. Also, they all have equal seats in the castle

 

 

They still aren't treated equally, and Twilight's character is still badly written.

 

 

 

"What is the Princess of Friendship without her friends?" Nothing, that's what

 

 

I'm sure that's wrong and that Twilight could still do allot without her friends.

 

 

 

Agreed, but she's not a bad character because of it.

 

I know, because that's not the reason why I find her to be a sucky character. It's just one of many reasons. 

[cider float 2,539]

 

This is why Twilight Sparkle can be pretty funny.

[user1342342 143]

This is why Twilight Sparkle can be pretty funny.

 

I admit, she does have her moments. I do find her OCD to be pretty funny. I really did try to like Twilight, but it just never worked out.

Edited May 26, 2015 by 1CJB

[Blue Moon 6,345]

Twilight Sparkle is my favorite out of the Mane 6, so I'll try my best to explain why I like her and bring up your points. Twilight has been the main character of this show from the very start, so a heavier focus on her opposed to the other characters is to be expected. However, that's not to say that the other character's don't get focus; I personally think the focus of the characters in each episode is pretty balanced. I've never felt that one character was getting too many or too little episodes.

 

Anyway, this show is still mainly about Twilight learning about friendship. In the beginning, Twilight is shown to be a very anti-social Pony who does not have any interest in becoming friends with other ponies, and is even a bit rude. However, she does develop throughout the show and learns the value of friendship bit by bit. Like others have said, Twilight Sparkle can be very relatable to some, so it is very satisfying to see a character like you rise to greatness. Becoming the princess of friendship makes sense for Twilight due to the whole show prior to Magical Mystery Cure revolving around her learning the lessons. Her ascension is essentially a graduation for her friendship lessons.

 

Another good thing to point out is that her journey there wasn't rushed either. She had to learn many lessons, showed that she wasn't perfect many times; one notable example being her behavior in Lesson Zero. As for her being overly privileged, her special talent is specializing in magic, so it makes sense for her to have Princess Celestia give her special lessons and education. Studying magic relates directly with her talent. Same thing with other characters. Rainbow Dash is able to attend the academy for the Wonderbolts, which is presumably pretty hard to get into, let alone do well. And I've never seen anyone criticize Rainbow Dash for that.

 

Back on topic, Twilight Sparkle wasn't handed her gifts either. She is shown throughout the earlier seasons practicing her magic (e.g. teleporting, transmutation, etc.), so she did have to work for what she has now. She also has been shown to have her head in a book very often, so it also makes sense for her to be as intelligent as she is. That's just a part of her character.

 

Now for her character post-ascension. The fourth season was mainly dedicated to her adjusting to being an alicorn princess. Not once did I feel she became too comfortable too quickly (and to be fair, I still don't think she's entirely adjusted yet, which is a good thing). It was crucial for the writers to make sure they put a good focus on Twilight so her new status makes sense for the show and the character. However, this does mean that there would need to be a higher focus on Twilight Sparkle, which did happen in the fourth season, but I don't think she received too much focus. The other characters still had their chance to shine (and if you look at the episodes, Twilight actually doesn't have that many episodes that focus on just her).

 

Finally, the fifth season. Twilight Sparkle actually has had very little focus in this season so far. She has adjusted a bit more into her new role as princess of friendship, which gives a little more room to focus on the other characters. The premiere had a very high focus on Fluttershy and the townsfolk, Castle Sweet Castle focused on the Mane 6 as a whole, Bloom & Gloom focused on Apple Bloom, Tanks For The Memories on Rainbow Dash, Appleoosa's Most Wanted on the Cutie Mark Crusaders, Make New Friends but Keep Discord on Discord, and finally; The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone on Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, and Gilda. As you can see, not a single episode has solely focused on Twilight Sparkle.

 

Now, those are the main reasons why I disagree with your viewpoints. As for why I like her as a character, I personally find her to be the most satisfying to watch and grow, and she has a very relatable personality for me. This is why she's my favorite out of the Mane 6.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,700]

Furthermore, I don't think becoming an alicorn was necessary for Twilight. It gives her the same "unbeatable" quality that makes so many people dislike characters like superman. Everybody likes to root for an underdog with strong moral character, but if you pitch a boot against an ant (Avengers!), it takes other qualities, like courage and determination, out of the equation.

 

Agreed. 

 

Well, I was going to agree with you two there that Twilight becoming an alicorn was pointless for her role of ruling over a tiny kingdom or spreading friendship like she's helping to do now (SERIOUSLY, if the other 5 are able to spread friendship with her, there's honestly no reason to have made her an alicorn for that mission except as a visual Mary sue identifier), BUT there was something that revolved around her being an alicorn.

 

Specifically, Season 4 with the finale was big on alicorn wanking, and twilight being an alicorn was neccessary for her to be part of the Uber race that Tirek was after (since I doubt you can put alicorn magic into another pony without making them an alicorn too).

 

 

Granted, this doesn't really make things BETTER, as it just makes her come off as more of a mary sue. but still.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Unlikeable Pony

[user1342342 143]

 

Twilight has been the main character of this show from the very start, so a heavier focus on her opposed to the other characters is to be expected.

 

 

It's the way the writers did it that bothers me. 

 

 

I personally think the focus of the characters in each episode is pretty balanced. I've never felt that one character was getting too many or too little episodes.

 

Eh, I sort of disagree. Twilight is the main focus of the series, not each episode. 

 

 

Anyway, this show is still mainly about Twilight learning about friendship.

 

 

But it's more than that isn't it? The show is about learning important lessons in life, making friends, etc. Twilight doesn't need to be the center of that. The show has so much potential, and it's diminished by the fact that we have a badly written character who's the main focus.

 

 

Twilight is shown to be a very anti-social Pony who does not have any interest in becoming friends with other ponies

 

That flaw was overcame within the first episode. See my point?

 

 

it is very satisfying to see a character like you rise to greatness

 

It's not satisfying when the character in question has been given every possible opportunity in life to succeed. 

 

 

Becoming the princess of friendship makes sense for Twilight due to the whole show prior to Magical Mystery Cure revolving around her learning the lessons. Her ascension is essentially a graduation for her friendship lessons.

 

It was competently unnecessary. He friends also learned about friendship. Basically, she was just given more abilities then she already had. She doesn't need that, or to be a princess for spreading the lessons about friendship.

 

 

Another good thing to point out is that her journey there wasn't rushed either. She had to learn many lessons, showed that she wasn't perfect many times

 

I'd say it's quiet the opposite. Her flaws are trivial, and she hasn't changed much after the fist episode.

 

 

Back on topic, Twilight Sparkle wasn't handed her gifts either.

 

She lifted a giant bear a thousand times her size, along with some other big shit. Twilight is absurdly overpowered. She's also a scientist, archmage, historian, etc. Why does this character need all of that power? It's stupid. 

 

 

Finally, the fifth season. Twilight Sparkle actually has had very little focus in this season so far.

 

 

I've only seen like part of one episode from season 5, I can't really say anything about it. 

 

That's about all I have to say to that.

[Justin_Case001 4,910]

Fans loved Christopher Reeve Superman because he was perfect, a paragon of truth and justice with no flaws.  People hated Man of Steel because he was portrayed as being more real and having some flaws.

 

Fans loved Twilight when she was more real and flawed, and hate her now that she's grown and matured.

 

My head a splode.

 

I can understand someone not liking the show at all.  There's shows I don't like, but still respect.  M*A*S*H for example.  But I personally have never understood how a fan of FIM can downright despise one of the mane six.  That's just me.

 

I will say that I'm getting real tired of hearing about how the other five are immature idiots compared to Twi.  So, the map summoned only Pinkie and Rainbow to solve the problem in Griffonstone by themselves because they're immature idiots and useless without almighty Twilight, is that it? 

[user1342342 143]

 

 

Fans loved Twilight when she was more real and flawed, and hate her now that she's grown and matured.

 

 

She was never realistic in terms of personality. 

 

 

 

I personally have never understood how a fan of FIM can downright despise one of the mane six.

 

 

I don't despise or hate Twilight, I just don't like her at all. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,700]

Fans loved Christopher Reeve Superman because he was perfect, a paragon of truth and justice with no flaws.  People hated Man of Steel because he was portrayed as being more real and having some flaws.

 

Fans loved Twilight when she was more real and flawed, and hate her now that she's grown and matured.

 

My head a splode.

 

I can understand someone not liking the show at all.  There's shows I don't like, but still respect.  M*A*S*H for example.  But I personally have never understood how a fan of FIM can downright despise one of the mane six.  That's just me.

 

I will say that I'm getting real tired of hearing about how the other five are immature idiots compared to Twi.  So, the map summoned only Pinkie and Rainbow to solve the problem in Griffonstone by themselves because they're immature idiots and useless without almighty Twilight, is that it? 

 

 

The only explanation I've heard that holds water for why the map Summoned pinkie instead of twilight is that Twilight is TOO competent. That the Idol had to be lost to avoid a repeat of the griffons using it as a crutch, and Pinkie was JUST competent enough to fix the problem while still being incompetent enough that her help at the end with RD didn't save both RD and the Idol.

Because honestly, twilight would have had that situation fixed pretty easily no problem.

 

 

 

Fans loved Christopher Reeve Superman because he was perfect, a paragon of truth and justice with no flaws.  People hated Man of Steel because he was portrayed as being more real and having some flaws.

 

 

To my knowledge its not that he's imperfect as that he causes Property damage and destruction like nobodies business in that movie that makes people dislike him.

[user1342342 143]

 

Friendship's core traits are Generosity, Honesty, Laughter, Kindness and Loyalty. Magic is the catalyst that keeps them all bound together

 

Coming back to this, the other main characters all had elements that reflected real positive qualities. Twilight's element being magic itself is stupid because it isn't a quality at all. 

[Prince Firemane 309]

 

Coming back to this, the other main characters all had elements that reflected real positive qualities. Twilight's element being magic itself is stupid because it isn't a quality at all. 

 

In a place like Equestria, why can't it be? Magic is a real tangible force there, it's the linchpin that binds the Elements together. But on a more metaphorical side, the Element of Magic represents that "special something" that all deep friendships have. Twilight was the one who bound the others together as friends and in turn they bound her with them as their friend. They all learn from each other, they all love each other, separately, in twos/threes or all together. Not a one of them gains more than the others from their friendship. Beyond the Elements of Harmony, their friendship is something special, it has its own magic that makes it very beneficial to all six of them.

[Justin_Case001 4,910]

The only explanation I've heard that holds water for why the map Summoned pinkie instead of twilight is that Twilight is TOO competent. That the Idol had to be lost to avoid a repeat of the griffons using it as a crutch, and Pinkie was JUST competent enough to fix the problem while still being incompetent enough that her help at the end with RD didn't save both RD and the Idol.

Because honestly, twilight would have had that situation fixed pretty easily no problem.

Ok, look, I regularly joke that every single problem in this show could be instantly solved if Twilight remembered she could use telekinesis and teleportation.  It's true, and the writers have to intentionally hold her back in that regard to give the others a chance.  But I still love her.  And I still don't think the others are made out to be immature idiots.

 

And you know, this kind of problem, of needing to hold back a character to give others a chance, is definitely not unique to this show.  How about friggin' Quicksilver in Days of Future Past?  The Honest Trailer made this point as well--he's so overpowered that they had to intentionally leave him behind at some point so that the other mutants would get a chance.  Because seriously, the professor could just say, "Hey, Quick, think you could end the war between humans and mutants for us?"  And he'd say, "Sure."  Then he'd shoot out the door in a blur, shoot back in and say, "Ok, done."  I know it's not the same thing, but it's just kind of fun to pick at that stuff.

 

Seriously, I wonder if fans would like Twilight better if she made some kind of horrible mistake that took her down a few notches.  Like, take for instance, the "Cogenitor" episode of Enterprise.  What if they did that with Twilight?  Twilight being Trip, basically.  Essentially, the premise was that Enterprise crew encountered an alien civilization where certain people were denied rights and freedom.  From human perspective, it was a grave injustice, but it wasn't human's place to judge an alien world they know almost nothing about.  Commander Trip takes it upon himself to intervene and show one of these people the rights "she" should have.  Being exposed to these possiblities, but knowing she can never have them, leads to her suicide after the Enterpise takes its leave.  The episode ends on a very sullen note with the captain reprimanding Trip as the commander makes the crushing realization that he's responsible.  It was actually one of my favorite episodes/scenes.  What if they did that with Twi?  Maybe, somehow worked it into a kid-friendly, non-death story that ends with Celestia reprimanding Twilight, and implying that it will take some time for her to be forgiven and re-earn trust.  I wonder how fans would react.  Would they like her more?

 

Oh, hey, wow, the clip is actually on youtube.  I'm surprised.  Here:

 

 

 

So imagine that basic exchange between Twi and Celestia, and just leave the episode like that.  That'd be something else.  I think it'd pretty awesome, really.  But too dark for the actual show.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Justin_Case001

[user1342342 143]

In a place like Equestria, why can't it be? Magic is a real tangible force there

 

 

Yes, I know that magic is real in pony world, It's still not a quality. I'm saying Twi's element should have been a positive quality, like her friends. Their friendship is what magic should come from.

 

 

 

the Element of Magic represents that "special something" that all deep friendships have.

 

There is no special thing that forms a relationship like that. Like I said, being a good friend is what leads there. 

 

 

 

Twilight was the one who bound the others together as friends and in turn they bound her with them as their friend.

 

If Twilight is the only thing holding the others together (I don't think she is), then they shouldn't be friends. She is the reason why they met though.

 

 

I wish I lived in Equestria, though, where you're not hated for being talented and special.

 

Are the others ragged on for being special at what they do? Piss off. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by 1CJB

[Prince Firemane 309]

Yes, I know that. I'm saying Twi's element should have been a positive quality. Their friendship is what magic should come from.

And I'm saying that it is a positive quality. The Elements of Harmony are catalyzed by Magic, the same works for their friendship. But the Elements also feed the catalyst. It's a symbiosis, much like that between the Crystal Heart and the Crystal Ponies. If one link in the chain circle is taken away, the entire thing breaks down.

 

 

Their is no special thing that forms a relationship like that. Like I said, being a good friend is what leads there. 

...I really don't know how I can make the metaphor any clearer, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

 

 

If Twilight is the only thing holding the others together (I don't think she is), then they shouldn't be friends. She is the reason why they met though.

Twilight is the catalyst, but she's not the only thing that holds them together. As I've said time and time again, not a single one of the mane six benefits more from their friendship; it's all mutually and equally beneficial to all of them.

 

 

Seriously, I wonder if fans would like Twilight better if she made some kind of horrible mistake that took her down a few notches.

I've always loved to see how the writers would handle an episode where Twilight screws up so badly that her friends don't immediately forgive her and how their relationships would be in subsequent episodes.

[cider float 2,539]

Fans loved Christopher Reeve Superman because he was perfect, a paragon of truth and justice with no flaws.  People hated Man of Steel because he was portrayed as being more real and having some flaws.

 

Fans loved Twilight when she was more real and flawed, and hate her now that she's grown and matured.

 

My head a splode.

 

I can understand someone not liking the show at all.  There's shows I don't like, but still respect.  M*A*S*H for example.  But I personally have never understood how a fan of FIM can downright despise one of the mane six.  That's just me.

 

I will say that I'm getting real tired of hearing about how the other five are immature idiots compared to Twi.  So, the map summoned only Pinkie and Rainbow to solve the problem in Griffonstone by themselves because they're immature idiots and useless without almighty Twilight, is that it?

 

Superman usually draws the crowd that likes overpowered heroes when he's suddenly depowered the audience that gathered for his overpoweredness go away. Also Superman was one of the first iconic superheroes so the godmodding writing is usually excused. People also like to take the classic superheroes up on a pedestal and see them as stronger than the modern day ones.

[user1342342 143]

The Elements of Harmony are catalyzed by Magic, the same works for their friendship.

 

 

I seriously don't think magic is needed at all here. Friendship doesn't need magic. My point is, the way the elements are set up is dumb with how Twi is, and it could have easily been different. 

 

 

 

...I really don't know how I can make the metaphor any clearer, so I'm gonna leave it as is.

 

 

I sort of overlooked the metaphor part.

Edited May 26, 2015 by 1CJB