S05:E08 - The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone

[Dark Qiviut 22,383]

While the houses are in a state of disrepair, the griffons themselves seem rather too well dressed for paupers on the verge of starvation. Hats, scarves, etc.

Don't assume that just because their clothes look fine doesn't mean their situations are. I go around NYC a lot, and homeless people come in so many shapes and sizes. Sometimes the clothes are worn out and in terrible shape. Sometimes, they may be just a little dirty visibly, but are in great shape. Some homeless people carry multiple clothes. I passed by one who had an iPhone. It's stereotypical to assume that their clothes are in good shape doesn't mean they're living in dire straights.

 

Once more, their homes are in a complete and utter mess. When their infrastructure is so terrible that they need to be condemned, then that's a sign of an economically bankrupt kingdom.

 

The store itself is in terrible condition. Other little details include:

1. The net above the clerk is there to prevent large blocks of wood, stones, or rocks from landing on him. Rather than trying to renovate the library, they have to rely on what should be a temporary solution to try to not to get him killed.
2. Multiple cobwebs surround the interior. This means the floors, shelves, and walls have not been maintained. You can easily argue the stuff on the shelves, too.

The library itself…well, there isn't any now.

 

Remember, the griffons are known for HOARDING their bits. You can’t hoard something you don’t have in the first place. It’s possible that the griffons have heaps of bits lying around in their houses.

1. Historically, the griffons were known to be greedy. But there's a gigantic difference between "historically" and "presently." Presently, we have no idea today's griffons are greedy because the narrative doesn't show they're greedy. The bankrupt nation is in tatters because there's no income to trade with among others like their inability to have agriculture. Their soil is so bad, they can't grow their crops. Sure, there's that one griffon who won't help Dash climb out that gorge because she had no bits, but consider the situation. The corruption dates back generations, and it's affecting the griffons today, including him. I already repeated this ad nauseum, so I won't here.
2. You can't use headcanon to assume the griffons possibly have bits lying around: There's nothing in the narrative to dictate they do.

The implication of the episode is that friendship could do more to unite them than pride, and with that they have the hope of rebuilding the kingdom. And it is only a hope.

What makes this a problem is how the episode tries to make the narrative believe that friendship can solve their predicament. Friendship only does so much. Like I said many times already, friendship doesn't plausibly help recreate a kingdom. It can help rekindle a community, but a kingdom is way more than that. A kingdom is a conglomerate of multiple communities. The communities in Griffonstone feel completely hopeless and apathetic.

 

Part of what made the Idol special is how it created hope. More specifically, it brought them united as one. When it somehow went missing, the kingdom went in sorrows. How it happened, we don't truly know. But from the way the episode presents itself, they went back to their old greedy habits. But current-day Griffonstone doesn't show that. You don't see them being greedy. You see them trying to survive in a kingdom where half the population could migrate or die in a matter of months.

 

Remember the scones. Their texture is terrible. Baking powder is actually an important ingredient for making them: When using the right amount, the scones feel light, fluffy, and comforting rather than heavy and punishing. But Gilda couldn't make scones properly because there's no economy or agriculture.

 

Also, don't just focus on the "If." Focus on the entire moral Pinkie exposits.

Pinkie Pie: That's because you don't have friendship! If you can learn to care about each other again, Griffonstone could be a mightier kingdom than it ever was before! And you don't need some golden idol to do that. You just need each other.

Pinkie explicitly said right here that the reason Griffonstone is in dire straights is because they're not friends. This is bullshit because it completely shortchanges the deeply rooted problems this broken society truly has. Remember, Griffonstone is bankrupt. Griffons not being friends is a completely shallow explanation. Governmental and societal depression are much more complex than a simple friendship problem. Over the years, we've seen how economies crash: stock market breaks down, a huge separation between the upper, middle, and lower-class, inability to get jobs, etc. There's no one cause for depression, even if Griffonstone was devoted to the Idol. The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone takes these generational problems and paints it across as one broad brush.

 

Even though the moral uses "if" and "could be," the magic of friendship is used not as a backbone, but a band-aid disguised as one. If they use the magic of friendship, then it could be revitalized. That's blind optimism by treating the magic of friendship as some religious spirit to keep them secure. You can't just simply rely on the magic of friendship for all of Griffonstone's problems and solutions. Because the entire kingdom is in complete disarray, it'll take a hell of a lot more to recreate Griffonstone's future. The Magic of Friendship won't recreate Griffonstone's dead agriculture, depressing economy, or crumbling infrastructure. And it'll certainly not recreate its generational apathy for their immediate future. Sure, it can be a solution to help rebuild their community, but the story treats it as the solution for the whole kingdom's possible future. That's insulting. Considering how much Griffonstone's situation is beyond desperate and needs help fast, the moral looks worse.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[A Joe in the Bush 255]

The library itself is in terrible condition, and I don't mean simply the books. Other little details include:

1. The net above the clerk is there to prevent large stones or rocks from landing on him. Rather than trying to renovate the library, they have to rely on what should be a temporary solution to try to not to get him killed.
2. Multiple cobwebs surround the interior. This means the floors, shelves, and walls have not been maintained. You can easily argue the books, too.

Do you mean the store that RD goes to?

 

The library had collapsed a long time ago.

[Dark Qiviut 22,383]

Do you mean the store that RD goes to?

 

The library had collapsed a long time ago.

Whoops. You're right. The SHOP is in terrible condition. The library went kaput. My mistake.

 

*fixes it*

Edited May 26, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[ButterCreamcake 31]

I enjoyed the episode, my main problem was Gilda's sudden jump from hating Rainbow Dash to patching things up almost instantly. I guess the same applies to Dashie by that logic. If they could've made the transition a bit more fluid then this would've been my favorite episode from Season 5. But aside from that, the episode was solid!

[Foliha 395]

Okay, fine. After watching the episode again, I've come to realize that Twilight's manual was not as big a deal as I made it out to be. It still seems like she's attempting to hand-hold them through their mission, but it's not quite the insult to Dash and Pinkie's intelligence that I originally saw it as. 

Well done Clover!  You did it! 

[Singe 2,111]

This is, by far, my favorite episode of Season 5. I tell you why. It took about 5 seasons for Gilda to even START to reform into good. And she was a minor antagonist for one episode! ONE. Discord started to reformed in one episode, Nightmare Moon in 2, and Sunset Shimmer in one movie! It wasn't rushed, and when she did start to reform, she wasn't reformed by the cliche 'finding the lost idol and then bringing order to Griffinstone', she was reformed in one of the most unexpected ways, Pinkie Pie. You know, the mare she despised for 5 seasons? That one.

 

And I keep wanting to spell 'Griffin' as 'Gryffin'. Damn you, Harry Potter.

 

It's been almost a year since Pinkie Pie's third wheel agitation antics got Rainbow Dash to kick Gilda out the door.

 

At some point in the episode Gilda stopped being agitated by Pinkie Pie's antics, which I would place on Pinkie Pie buying one of Gilda's revenge tooth breaking scone. The writers might have felt they were even and start fresh. Pinkie Pie did invoke Gilda's memories and realization of how terrible her life is without awesome Rainbow Dash in it.

 

Though the show never explains why Gilda became a bully. Maybe Gilda was picked on one to many times by a grass eater and she ate the loser.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Singe

[Miles 2,512]

Just got around to watching the episode.

I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised with this one.  I wasn't expecting such a thrilling, action-adventure-esque story that it gave us.  Not to mention, the quality (of animation) has gotten a shit-ton better with Season 5!

Overall, I liked the episode a lot.  I was happy to see Gilda's turn-around at the end.  The Grinch finally found a heart, if I may say.

---

 

I have one major problem with the moral's approach. Here, Pinkie and Dash realize that the reason Griffonstone is in such trouble is because they're not friends with each other. Nononononononononono!

 

Griffinstone is a wasteland. There's nothing exciting or endearing about this place. The houses are rundown. There's no food, no water. It's desolate out there, and chances are they don't get much rain by how dry the ground and sky look. Present-day griffons have every reason to be grumpy: While others such as Ponyville thrive, Griffonstone looks war-torn.

 

Someone here implicated how greed can lead to problems in society and friendship to heal itself for the future. The problem is there's a deep disconnect between what the moral is trying to say and what they're saying. The griffons here aren't greedy. They're fighting for survival. They don't ask for money at any given turn without reason. As comedic as many of the scenes are, the griffons are in very deep trouble. If they don't ask for money, they starve and will die.

 

The episode treats the moral as a one-size-fit-all solution to Griffinstone's problems (and by association, others in real life). That doesn't work. Even if society is welcoming and friends with each other, that still won't solve the economic and agricultural turmoil. Friendship can only build so much, and it's a false pretense to believe otherwise. Sure, it's a start to maybe building Griffinstone back up, but the griffins are in a life-or-death predicament, and they don't completely treat it as such.

 

Well, while I can agree to some of this... about their situation, etc.

I think you may be overlooking one major aspect of the show.

What does every ponies talent (of the Mane 6) have in common?  

The ability to create HARMONY among all of the Equestrian world.

So, while what we explicitly see here, with Pinkie saying Friendship will solve everything... What she's really saying, implicitly, to Gilda, is that she must "re-create harmony among the citizens of her communities" to restore their spirit to a much happier, less greedy livelihood.

You say, DQ, that they aren't greedy.  I say false, they are indeed greedy, for nothing but greed was the cause of the griffon to let Rainbow lay alone on the little cliff; just because she had no coins is NO reason to not save her.

The economy is down because they're all inglorious leeches!  They can't give to the economy if they all want it for themselves.  They're missing literally all the elements of the ponies; Kindness, Generosity, Loyalty, Honesty, Laughter, and Magic.  They have no spirit, no livelihood; only anger, aggression, and greed runs through their veins.

This episode shows us how ALL of the elements are sort of interdisciplinarily connected to each other, and that with only two of the elements, enough boost may be given to restore the spirits of one griffon enough such that she can begin to spread the spirit amongst the rest of the citizens.  

Sure, this "fix" is anything but "efficient" - it'll be a while before Griffonstone becomes what it used to be; Gilda can't work her magic in only a day.

But that's not the point.  The point is, that harmony is the string that ties all the elements together, and that they can overlap with each other enough to fix one problem at a time so that the issue can be solved with time.  I mean, shucks, it's not like Griffonstone was really "getting any worse" anytime soon.  It was pretty much "in-limbo" if you ask me.  

So, with the inception of this new idea, this new spirit, drive, and enthusiasm flowing through Gilda, she can spread the anti-potion for greed through her acts of gaining friends, and each of those new friends may do the same, and it becomes exponentially faster once so many griffons are restored to their true colors.

~ Miles

[Guest90210 3,568]

I do agree with those that are saying that the whole "Friendship is the answer" ending is totally canned and recycled, and that it should have been expanded upon more for sure to mention some sort of political or financial reform, however; that didn't ruin the episode to me. The episode actually made me like Gilda's character a lot! Before, I couldn't stand her. But her performance was fantastic in this one. The visuals were crisp and unique. The downtrodden town of Griffonstone looked like complete wreck just as intended, and the art design in general was wonderfully done. I liked the new history bits that we learned, and I had plenty of great laughs throughout. The Pinkie Pie "throw me a rope" scene... 

 

You say, DQ, that they aren't greedy.  I say false, they are indeed greedy, for nothing but greed was the cause of the griffon to let Rainbow lay alone on the little cliff; just because she had no coins is NO reason to not save her.

 

That most certainly was greed. Even in a disastrous and poor economic and social state, I still don't understand the extreme desire for bits, and the total apathy towards life that that griffin had. It isn't acceptable nor understandable. It's severe greed and apathy, simple and blunt.

 

Overall I really enjoyed it 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Rivendare

[Chaton 3,765]

"Griffins are naturally evil greedy lion bird things"

 

That has to be the best thing I've seen on the subject of Griffins XD

[Princess Lona 382]

I am really glad that this episode was made. It was a good episode, but the reason that it makes me happy is that it soothes a problem I had earlier in the season.

 

I thought the season premier was a very, very thinly veiled jab at socialism with a lot of cheering for the competitive nature of capitalism thrown in. I'm not a full socialist myself, but I do see some potential for positive policy change in socialist ideals, so it bothers me when works of fiction like the season five opener present socialism in an oversimplified manner, pointing out only its flaws. I remember at the time it aired I thought that I wouldn't be so bothered by it if they would do an episode that either shows the benefits of socialism, or the negative points of its opposite, capitalism.

 

Cue this week's episode.

 

All the Griffins were selfish, uncaring, and would only help others if they got some money in return. This caused them to become isolated from each other, with each member of the community taking care of only themselves. They were an oversimplified characature of a capitalist society and they illustrated everything that's wrong with capitalism but none of its good points. The dump state of Griffinstone was a result of their inability to cooperate.

 

So I'm relieved to know that the mlp writers are equally critiquing both systems. Now if they would just make episodes showing the positive points of capitalism and socialism.

[Time Shield 402]

I am really glad that this episode was made. It was a good episode, but the reason that it makes me happy is that it soothes a problem I had earlier in the season.

 

I thought the season premier was a very, very thinly veiled jab at socialism with a lot of cheering for the competitive nature of capitalism thrown in. I'm not a full socialist myself, but I do see some potential for positive policy change in socialist ideals, so it bothers me when works of fiction like the season five opener present socialism in an oversimplified manner, pointing out only its flaws. I remember at the time it aired I thought that I wouldn't be so bothered by it if they would do an episode that either shows the benefits of socialism, or the negative points of its opposite, capitalism.

 

Cue this week's episode.

 

All the Griffins were selfish, uncaring, and would only help others if they got some money in return. This caused them to become isolated from each other, with each member of the community taking care of only themselves. They were an oversimplified characature of a capitalist society and they illustrated everything that's wrong with capitalism but none of its good points. The dump state of Griffinstone was a result of their inability to cooperate.

 

So I'm relieved to know that the mlp writers are equally critiquing both systems. Now if they would just make episodes showing the positive points of capitalism and socialism.

 

I don't think this episode was a jab at capitalism in general.  Griffonstone was an anarchy (no ruling body) with a laissez-faire style of capitalism (that is, transactions are "free from government interference such as regulations, privileges, tariffs, and subsidies.")  It's not characteristic of typical mixed-economy capitalism that you generally see today, but rather the older way of doing it, which is flawed.  Capitalism has progressed a lot since then.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Time Shield

[Mr. Mustang 647]

Well, lemme get this outta the way first...

 

ERMAGER! Gilda's back!!!!

ERMAGER! An insight into Rainbow's and Gilda's childhood!!!!!

ERMAGER! A Pinkie and Dash Episode!!!!!!

 

Okay, now that that is out of my system, let's get down to brass tacks.

 

Apparently the Griffon kingdom is much like Nepal, i.e. the headgear Pinkie and Dash wear when arriving into Griffonstone. I think this is one of the most exotic places we've seen so far and it's nice to see other griffons for once, other than recoloured Gildas (i.e. Rainbow Falls S4 and Equestria Games S4). You would think that something like this would be on Daring Do's radar but it wasn't, I guess she was busy with kicking Ahoizotl in the pants or something, since Rainbow and Pinkie beat her to it on this one.

 

I imagine Daring's visit would unfold somewhat like this...

 

Daring, "I'm here to recover your Idol of Boreas!"

Random Griffon, "Naw we're good."

Daring, "But..."

Another Random Griffon, "Yeah we're good. Apparently we don't need the Idol anymore."

Daring leaves for another Indiana Jones style adventure but before leaving she shouts, "It still belongs in a museum!!!"

 

 

Footnote: Wow, I think this might be the most thoughts I've written for an episode yet!

Edited May 27, 2015 by Mustang D

[Casbyness 48]

This felt like a bottle episode to cut down costs, with an incomplete cast and good excuse to keep everything very small scale because of the griffon home town being all backwards like. The joke at the beginning with Gummy felt a bit too vanilla and forced for Pinkie and OMG I was genuinely shocked when she pulled the tray out of the oven with her MOUTH. Some kid somewhere is going to get a very nasty burn re-enacting that...

 

On the plus side though, it was a Pinkie Pie-ish episode so was lots of fun. The flashback with young Dashie and Gilda was awesome too. I liked it overall, but always had a feeling that the episode idea started out as a big crystal-empire style two parter but was demoted after a few more staff meetings until it just became a way to finally redeem Gilda.

 

Which is great, now she's out of the "bad guy" corner of my blind bag figures

[Singe 2,111]

In likelihood, friendship could backfire if a couple of the greedy Griffins join forces and get ahead of the rest. This episode is basically setting up for a Part 2 of Griffonstone.

[Luffyiscool 397]

This felt like a bottle episode to cut down costs, with an incomplete cast and good excuse to keep everything very small scale because of the griffon home town being all backwards like.

So... just because we got an episode focused on Dash and Pinkie visiting Gilda's homeland and reforming her... it's a bottle episode to cut down costs?

 

This show is made in flash, the animation costs the same across the board.

Plus, there were some great visuals in this, including the flashback.

 

Not a bottle episode, just an ordinary episode.

Especially because the map was involved, giving what most of us wanted. (friendship missions that don't involve the whole group).

Expecting the others to get their own missions too at some point.

[Casbyness 48]

So... just because we got an episode focused on Dash and Pinkie visiting Gilda's homeland and reforming her... it's a bottle episode to cut down costs?

 

This show is made in flash, the animation costs the same across the board.

 

Not a bottle episode, just an ordinary episode.

 

Twas the bottliest of bottles, thou hast pointeth made well then verily contradicted thyself with rogue forbearance. Thy costliest of episodic costs be swift restitution to thou voicest of actors, never to thy bodily animators. Thoust makes one most naivish and irrelevant point - bury thy befuddlement of animation and voice reimbursements with so foul a conflation! Begone Luffy, thy coolness now stands justly bemoaned and most doubtful.

[Time Shield 402]

Twas the bottliest of bottles, thou hast pointeth made well then verily contradicted thyself with rogue forbearance. Thy costliest of episodic costs be swift restitution to thou voicest of actors, never to thy bodily animators. Thoust makes one most naivish and irrelevant point - bury thy befuddlement of animation and voice reimbursements with so foul a conflation! Begone Luffy, thy coolness now stands justly bemoaned and most doubtful.

 

You do realize that by sending along only those two, they saved exactly one voice actress worth (since Fluttershy and Applejack's voice actresses also do Pinkie and Dash)?  But then they had to add Gilda's voice actress, in addition to the other griffon characters.  So they didn't save anything at all, and your overly-sarcastic argument is invalid.

[Twilight Frost 271]

This has one of the most endearing moments in the entire series, as well as one of the darkest.

 

I mean, when that griffon just left rainbow dash to die on the side of a cliff because she didn't have bits to give her...I mean...only fucking WOW that was freaking DARK!

 

 

I mean, it has got to be the most fucking dark thing in this gen EVER!

 

I almost cried when gilda made a friend and learned how she used to be and still is a good person deep inside. It really makes up for the bad episode we saw her in before with how she treated pinkie and all the others. The village they come from and its back story was quite suprising too. I absolutely loved the moral lessons learned in this story that friends are worth more than gold.

[Luffyiscool 397]

Calling this episode a bottle episode is an insult.
To me, the word implies this isn't a proper episode, but it most certainly is.

 

You do realize that by sending along only those two, they saved exactly one voice actress worth (since Fluttershy and Applejack's voice actresses also do Pinkie and Dash)?  But then they had to add Gilda's voice actress, in addition to the other griffon characters.  So they didn't save anything at all, and your overly-sarcastic argument is invalid.

You. I like you.

 

[Singe 2,111]

Rainbow Dash could have lied or bargained with the griffin to help her out. The griffin would have to render service before being paid for it, if she wanted to get those bits. Promise the griffin that Twilight Sparkle will pay 1,000,000 bits.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Singe

[Bluenavyangel 366]

I LOVED the small Gilda and Twidash !

[EMT Brony 65]

Although inevitable that Gilda was going to be revisited I'm not to sure how I felt about the episode as a whole.  I do enjoy the dynamic of Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie greatly.  I enjoyed seeing Griffinstone and the area explains how some of Gilda's personality can be explained.  I liked seeing the griffin society or at least part of the society albeit depressing.  Gilda being welcomed back as a friend to Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash shows a great lesson in being able to put the past away.   I'd like to be able to flesh out my thoughts more and this would require watching the episode more.  All in all it was probably a eight out of ten.  What do you guys think?

[Dart Barnstorm 14]

Absolutely everything about this episode was done in spectacular fashion. At least to my liking, good story, good development, and it kept me engaged throughout the entire episode. 

[Casbyness 48]

You do realize that by sending along only those two, they saved exactly one voice actress worth (since Fluttershy and Applejack's voice actresses also do Pinkie and Dash)?  But then they had to add Gilda's voice actress, in addition to the other griffon characters.  So they didn't save anything at all, and your overly-sarcastic argument is invalid.

 

Are you sure you're not a Griffon? You sound a bit mean by friendly pony standards

 

My jokey reply was in response to something that went like this -

 

1) Me: "Eh, the episode was okay and had good plus bad points. It FELT LIKE a bottle episode after all the showiness of the previous episode."

 

2) Not Me (who considers bottle episodes to be a negative thing, despite many bottle episodes of shows like Star Trek being the best ones ever made): "NOT a bottle episode!"

 

3) Me: Eh. Here's a silly reply.

 

If someone responds to an opinion, e.g. "hey that cloud looks kinda like a sandwich to me"; with "No it doesn't look like a sandwich to you!" then the proper response (as outlined in the Pinkie Pie Handbook for the Recently Diseased) is "Chewbacca lives on Endor." It's the law, everyone knows this

Edited May 28, 2015 by Casbyness

[Time Shield 402]

Are you sure you're not a Griffon? You sound a bit mean by friendly pony standards

 

My jokey reply was in response to something that went like this -

 

1) Me: "Eh, the episode was okay and had good plus bad points. It FELT LIKE a bottle episode after all the showiness of the previous episode."

 

2) Not Me (who considers bottle episodes to be a negative thing, despite many bottle episodes of shows like Star Trek being the best ones ever made): "NOT a bottle episode!"

 

3) Me: Eh. Here's a silly reply.

 

If someone responds to an opinion, e.g. "hey that cloud looks kinda like a sandwich to me"; with "No it doesn't look like a sandwich to you!" then the proper response (as outlined in the Pinkie Pie Handbook for the Recently Diseased) is "Chewbacca lives on Endor." It's the law, everyone knows this

 

Bolded the part that should be removed; I didn't say that isn't your opinion, I just said that the basis of the opinion is false.  You can believe what you want to believe either way though.