Do people still hate Keep Calm and Flutter On?

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

A lot of people trashed it when it first aired, but obviously, we wouldn't have had new Discord episodes without it. And most of those episodes were generally received pretty well. Has the consensus to Fluttershy reforming Discord and making him her friend changed?

[NavelColt 22,883]

People who still don't like it, should dislike it less in retrospect. At the time it seemed that the show was trying to force Discord into a good guy with a hasty plot in a single episode. But now we know that it was the first step in a two season-long process of reforming Discord. All Keep Calm and Flutter On did was blackmail Discord into playing nice, less he lose someone who actually enjoyed his crazy antics and was willing to spend time with him. It was the S4 Finale where Discord was truly reformed, and learned about the value of having friends.

 

And now we've got him doing the same thing Shimmer is doing; learning about how friendship works, one day at a time.

 

[Dark Qiviut 22,501]

People who still don't like it, should dislike it less in retrospect.

Wrong. Throughout the episode, it looked like Discord's guide to friendship appeared genuine, but the moral was completely cruel and underhanded. She wasn't extending friendship. It was domestic abuse. Given the fact that Fluttershy is supposed to be a protagonist, the implications are scary. In fact, Twilight's Kingdom makes KC worse by all but telling the viewer its flaws.

 

So, to answer the OP, while the consensus seems to be more a support for Fluttershy as Discord's friend, it has nothing to do with Keep Calm, but more to do with the subsequent episodes. The original approach was having Fluttershy gain her friendship with Discord to control him psychologically and emotionally. This was an episode I originally liked. Since Twilight's Kingdom, I've actually grown to despise this episode over the last dozen months or so.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[The Awesome One 1,315]

I don't understand why people did not like it. What was wrong with it? Some might have found it a bit boring but a lot of MLP episodes get a little boring due to them being very Slice of Life-ish.

 

I actually enjoyed seeing Discord getting reformed like that.

[Commissar Alexer 763]

Probably because it gave birth to fluttercord.

[DragonFlyer 329]

Although "Keep Calm and Flutter on" does feel very rushed I think they made up for it by stretching out the whole "reforming" process. If Discord had really made a complete 360 by the end of that single episode I wouldn't be a happy camper. But no, by the time we saw him again in "Princess Twilight Sparkle" it was obvious he was far from being truly reformed. He still has a lot to learn but there was a genuine change in him after the season four finale. So no, I don't hate this episode. I never did. Actually it's one of my favorites. The only thing I didn't like was how rushed it was - I originally thought it really should have been in two parts. But they did even better than that and I really like the gradual approach.

[Dark Qiviut 22,501]

 

 

I don't understand why people did not like it. What was wrong with it? Some might have found it a bit boring but a lot of MLP episodes get a little boring due to them being very Slice of Life-ish.

A few reasons, but the main two are:

1. The pacing is rushed slop. Everything whizzes through one ear and out the other with no time to breathe.
2. The implications from this line:
   

    

   Fluttershy: I've just been trying to gain his friendship any way I can, so he'd come to trust and listen to me!

   In other words, Fluttershy wanted to be Discord's friend for no reason other than to control him. That if he tips a toe out of line, she can manipulate him into following her way or never be her friend again. This moral isn't just cruel, it's evil. The implications from that line indicate that Fluttershy wants to emotionally and psychologically abuse him. It's a tactic you see in abusive relationships.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

People hate KC for its forced plot and Fluttershy's manipulate. To me, ss3 episodes have a lot of interested concept with some fatal flaws but i still love it (my guilty pleasure)

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

It's my favorite episode of the entire series!  Also given the poll in the episode forum, it seems like a well liked episode overall. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Sidral Mundet

[RarityFan01 2,444]

Besides the lord of chaos being in it, it was more suited for Pony Tales. In fact, change Discord to Teddy and Fluttershy to Sweet Heart and write it without the magic, and it would fit right in. Sweet Heart would manipulate Teddy being nice or she won't be friends with him. He would claim he doesn't need friends then quickly realize he would no longer be her friend and start being nice. (Anyone who watches My Little Pony Tales would agree. )

 

This sort of episode was more suited for Pony Tales than FiM. That's not necessarily bad, but it was out of place. It's a very important episode, but it could have been written better.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,303]

This is the first season where I've more or less been watching along with the fandom; so I saw episodes from seasons one through four at my own pace and at a time well after their airing.  I didn't realize the episode itself was hated.  As opposed as I am to the ridiculous and extremely unlikely ship that was presumably born from it, I found several things to like.  Most of which involved Rainbow Dash.  Besides, now everyone has the newest Discord episode to hate on if they so desire.  *Shrugs.*

[Cwanky 17,644]

Unfortunately I find myself growing to hate Keep Calm. To be clear, like Qiviut, I do not despise Keep Calm for many of the perceived reasons that many of its detractors seem to have, I am torn by the episode and the interpretation of implications thus far weigh heavily on the episode's merits. The pace I honestly feel is fine and its believable enough. Far from that the episode has much deeper potential flaws that themselves are exposed in later episodes.

 

The premise and moral of the episode is clear enough, anyone can reform and become friends, even outcasts. Often people need to hear a simple sincere "I care about you," "you're not that bad, you're just misunderstood" or even "I think of you as a friend" to feel appreciated and open up. Discord is like the school bully or outcast who everyone loves to hate and/or pick on, and tends to act out in response to this or to hide it. I know because I was an outcast at school too.

 

To Qiviut's point this is what makes it all the worse: everything depends on Fluttershy's sincerity. Did she truly regard Discord as a friend, or just a convenient pawn like herself to be used byTrollestia  Celestia? Again like the outcast or bully, are you truly befriending them because you want to, or is it for an ulterior motive, ie money, protection, self righteous ego trip. I too know of this experience.

 

People complain about Trollestia, but episodes like Keep Calm illustrate exactly that. Celestia and co behave callously and hypocritically manipulating Discord for their own purposes, and yet he's expected to "behave" and be their ally when the Mane 6 minus Fluttershy and the rest of Equestria still treat him like shit. That's an abusive and manipulative relationship, not to mention one that's dishonest, disloyal, greedy, hostile and substitutes sincere kindness for fake insincere gestures of kindness. That’s no friendship at all. That’s a classic good cop, bad cop routine, with Fluttershy clearly the good cop.

 

Tirek was right sadly. Discord was a pony errand boy.

 

Make New Friends, But Keep Discord really raises serious questions about Discord’s relation with Fluttershy, and yes even the others. Yes Fluttershy was quite busy and occupied and yes she seems to be more accommodating to a fa ult. Still, to an extent after spending so much time, the most time of anyone with Discord, how could Fluttershy not understand or see Discord’s loneliness and insecurity? Discord himself openly admitted in Keep Calm that Fluttershy was the “only true friend” he ever had. I find it hard to believe that Fluttershy could be so callous to just neglect Discord especially at such a major event like the Gala, not even giving him a memo or asking him if he wanted to come. It’s made all the worse that she replaced him for a newer friend with Tree Hugger, inadvertent as it may have been. Discord was equally rejected by the rest of the Mane 6, who including Twilight that supposedly “befriended” Discord in Twilight’s Kingdom, spurned him and showed little empathy for his plight. In some senses Discord was right to have his outburst. Everyone including Celestia was content to sit back, laugh and condemn him. I was disappointed at Fluttershy, she showed that she truly didn’t understand the nuances of friendship equally as much as Discord.

 

Whether you like Discord or not, the way Discord was treated, as a "friend", thus far is not how you treat a friend. It completely undermines the motto of the show "friendship is magic."

Edited May 21, 2015 by Cwanky

[cider float 2,539]

Wrong. Throughout the episode, it looked like Discord's guide to friendship appeared genuine, but the moral was completely cruel and underhanded. She wasn't extending friendship. It was domestic abuse. Given the fact that Fluttershy is supposed to be a protagonist, the implications are scary. In fact, Twilight's Kingdom makes KC worse by all but telling the viewer its flaws.

 

So, to answer the OP, while the consensus seems to be more a support for Fluttershy as Discord's friend, it has nothing to do with Keep Calm, but more to do with the subsequent episodes. The original approach was having Fluttershy gain her friendship with Discord to control him psychologically and emotionally. This was an episode I originally liked. Since Twilight's Kingdom, I've actually grown to despise this episode over the last dozen months or so.

Knowing Fluttershy stirring the emotions is not her intention. She did not plan on making Discord turn in that way it just came around. Celestia however seemed to know Fluttershy was key to getting Discord on their side though.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,942]

It was actually one of my favorite episodes of the season, mainly because of what it was leading to. My only major problem with it honestly, was that it took an entire full season after that for a real reformation. I guess it makes sense from the standpoint that almost everything in season 3 seemed a bit rushed and this episode had the same rushed vibe. Even Discord himself was a bit toned down, so if I had to have another major gripe with the episode, it was that.

 

I still enjoyed it though and that opinion has not changed. It is a vastly inferior depiction of Discord compared to what we have now and compared to what he was, no doubts about that. It was still a good episode, just the weakest of all Discord centric episodes. Even with that, I still like KCAFO at the same level as when it premiered.

[Justin_Case001 4,907]

I really liked it when it first aired.  It felt like classic Q to me.  It was just very rushed at the end.  I wanted it to be a two parter.  His "reform" was so quick that it wasn't believable.  But seeing how it all played out, with his believable reform in Twi's Kingdom, I like Keep Calm even more now.

 

 

In other words, Fluttershy wanted to be Discord's friend for no reason other than to control him. That if he tips a toe out of line, she can manipulate him into following her way or never be her friend again. This moral isn't just cruel, it's evil. The implications from that line indicate that Fluttershy wants to emotionally and psychologically abuse him. It's a tactic you see in abusive relationships.

I get what you're saying, but I think the line I boldfaced is a bit of an outrageous assumption.  I don't think you can claim that Fluttershy wanted to abuse him.  This is Fluttershy we're talking about.  She's not cruel and abusive or manipulative.  The thought is laughable, really.  She was doing was she thought was best for him.  But it was a sticky situation, for sure.  What were her options, really?  Try to befriend him, or don't and he goes back to stone, disappointing Celestia.  What's the best way out of that?  But it did always seem to me that the only reason that she (or any of them) are "friends" with Discord is because if they don't play nice, then he gets pissed, and everybody's screwed, particularly now that they no longer have the Elements.  If he decided to go hog wild, is there anything that anyone could do to stop him now?  Seems like that's the only reason to be friends with him.  Just keep up the sharad and play nice so the omipotent being doesn't decide to destroy your world.  It's a pretty f*cked up game.

 

Like, imagine this--what do you think would happen if the mane 6, with Fluttershy as their spokesmare, went up to Discord (maybe after the Smooze incident, perhaps), and said, "Listen Discord, you're...um...nice and all, but...um...it's not working out.  I don't think we should see each other anymore.  It's nothing personal, we're just not suited to be friends.  Sorry."  What do you think Discord would do?  Destroy the f*ckin world, that's what.  It's like the six are locked into a deadly one-sided friendship that rests on the edge of knife.  It doesn't seem like they have a choice.  There's no freedom, and thus, obviously no true friendship.  But that's Q for you.

 

Don't get me wrong, though--I like it.  I find it all very entertaining.  I've always been a fan of Q, anyway.  But perhaps KCAFO doesn't, in fact, send a good message to children.  But you you what?  Honestly...*whispers* : I don't really care!  *Chuckles*.

 

I mean, kids aren't gonna read this much into it, anyway.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Justin_Case001

[They call me Loyalty 1,951]

It's great to see Discord more often. I don't know if it would have been possible otherwise. And more to the point, it makes perfect sense.

I've some experience on dealing with discord, including myself

 

[Kivil 1,721]

I don't remember hating it, the only thing MLP that I don't like are the EG movies....

[Dark Qiviut 22,501]

Knowing Fluttershy stirring the emotions is not her intention. She did not plan on making Discord turn in that way it just came around. Celestia however seemed to know Fluttershy was key to getting Discord on their side though.

That's the problem. It wasn't supposed to be like this. But the wretched wording of the moral dictates otherwise. Unfortunate implications exist, and there are serious implications in the wording.

 

I get what you're saying, but I think the line I boldfaced is a bit of an outrageous assumption. I don't think you can claim that Fluttershy wanted to abuse him. This is Fluttershy we're talking about. She's not cruel and abusive or manipulative. The thought is laughable, really.

To call this laughable shows you don't understand the implications of the moral.

 

To quote the wording of the moral once more:

 

Fluttershy: I've just been trying to gain his friendship any way I can, so he'd come to trust and listen to me!

There are two major flaws in the wording.

1. "Gain his friendship any way possible." In other words, she's trying to force her ability to be friends with Discord and force Discord to be her friend. You don't force people to become friends in real life. Otherwise, you become repellent. This applies here. Fluttershy wasn't trying to become his friend naturally. She was playing mind games with Discord in order for him to become her friend.
2. "To trust and listen to me." The last three words are another real killer. What she's saying is that in order for her to actually be a friend, Discord must listen to her, period. If he ignores her, she can intimidate him for control to force this friendship to remain intact. In other words, she wants to treat Discord like garbage. That's domestic abuse.

 

But perhaps KCAFO doesn't, in fact, send a good message to children.  But you you what?  Honestly...*whispers* : I don't really care!  *Chuckles*.

You should care! Friendship Is Magic is about teaching people, especially children, the morals of friendship. Keep Calm's lesson of forcing and intimidating others to be and remain friends is evil. This doesn't work in real life, and to paint this picture as something good is dangerous.

 

I mean, kids aren't gonna read this much into it, anyway.

Never underestimate the intellect of kids. Kids are both very smart and impressionable. What they see around them affects the way they learn and grow, including TV. This show is about teaching beneficial morals.

 

If kids don't catch it, then their parents (the show's target audience) might.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[cider float 2,539]

That's the problem. It wasn't supposed to be like this. But the wretched wording of the moral dictates otherwise. Unfortunate implications exist, and there are serious implications in the wording.

 

To call this laughable shows you don't understand the implications of the moral.

 

To quote the wording of the moral once more:

There are two major flaws in the wording.

1. "Gain his friendship any way possible." In other words, she's trying to force her ability to be friends with Discord and force Discord to be her friend. You don't force people to become friends in real life. Otherwise, you become repellent. This applies here. Fluttershy wasn't trying to become his friend naturally. She was playing mind games with Discord in order for him to become her friend.
2. "To trust and listen to me." The last three words are another real killer. What she's saying is that in order for her to actually be a friend, Discord must listen to her, period. If he ignores her, she can intimidate him for control to force this friendship to remain intact. In other words, she wants to treat Discord like garbage. That's domestic abuse.

 

You should care! Friendship Is Magic is about teaching people, especially children, the morals of friendship. Keep Calm's lesson of forcing and intimidating others to be and remain friends is evil. This doesn't work in real life, and to paint this picture as something good is dangerous.

 

Never underestimate the intellect of kids. Kids are both very smart and impressionable. What they see around them affects the way they learn and grow, including TV. This show is about teaching beneficial morals.

 

If kids don't catch it, then their parents (the show's target audience) might.

 

I could go watch it again but far as I remember Discord did decided to be friends with Fluttershy in hopes of making her eventually lose her cool and give in as a part of his mind game. To him he was going to make it out to be a joke and chalk it up as one of his successes but he somewhat began to understand friendship and felt that twinge feel of guilt and sadness when he realized all he wanted was a friend. There is a reason for him always trying to get the attention of others just like how children will cause all kinds of mayhem to get the attention of aloof parents Discord was in many ways like that.

 

People do force others to be their friends. In real life there are people that act that way and it can either go two ways. You find out there is value in their friendship and you like the person eventually. But there's the other way it turns out that you run far far away.

Nothing about Fluttershy was forced though, if you noticed the other members of the mane six like Applejack, Rarity, Rainbow Dash and Pinkie Pie did somewhat force their friendship on Twilight and you know what I did not see a problem with that).

Edited May 21, 2015 by cidershield

[silvadel 1,393]

Fluttershy has always been a conundrum for Discord, from the very beginning where he was unable to discord her properly in the maze.  All of the other ponies he managed to trick into accepting his "gift."  Fluttershy he had to brute force.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

There are probably people who still hate it. I mean, I am aware of all the implications in the episode but I will say it did later pave way for other awesome episodes like last week's.

[cider float 2,539]

There are probably people who still hate it. I mean, I am aware of all the implications in the episode but I will say it did later pave way for other awesome episodes like last week's.

Well it's just like Twilight turning into an alicorn. I hate that episode and the change that happened to her. There are people that like that though. You can't change their minds but it's always good to discuss it.

[Justin_Case001 4,907]

@@Dark Qiviut, I do understand.  I get what you're saying.  That's why I went into that whole thing about it being a dangerous, f*cked up game of one-sided "friendship".  I merely pointed out that I highly doubt Fluttershy WANTS to abuse him.  Her intentions were not malicious.  That doesn't mean it was right, I'm just saying that she wasn't intentionally trying to be malicious.  She was put in a tight spot with limited options.  Try to control him, or send him back to stone.  Within the context of that situation, what was the right thing to do?  I'm not asking whether or not it was right for the writers to make the episode, I'm asking, hypothetically, within the lore of the show, what was the right thing for Fluttershy to do?  From my point of view, she only had two choices, neither of which was really right, so she did what she thought best for everyone.

 

I'm sorry that I said I don't care about about the moral.  Of course I don't want them teaching bad morals.  I just don't see it being as dangerous as you do.  I don't think that every single thing kids see has to be paragon of morality in order to prevent them from turning into a sociopath.  In real life, there are sometimes tough situations involving ethical dilemmas with no easy way out.  Hasbro makes a good show, but it's not their responsibility to teach kids everything they have to know to conduct themselves properly with others.  I seriously doubt that KCAFO is going to create a generation of evil, abusive, manipulative bastards, i.e. Dr. Houses, that force others into relationships for personal gain.

[sweetolebob18 728]

IMO, Discord was just too powerful.  If they had made it so he couldn't harm the Mane 6, it would have worked (Hey, he just put them in touch with their inner self.  That's not harm -that's enlightenment.)  Bringing him back, they had to downsize his power.  They just went about it all wrong.