Which villain do you sympathize with the most?

[Silver Stream. 708]

Prior to this question, I've been focused on topics such as "who's the most sinister villain" and "which villain shouldn't be easily forgiven". But after thinking over the execution of every villain and antagonist throughout the MLP (G4) and EG franchise, I found myself only feeling sorry for a few villains: Gilda, Starlight Glimmer, Luna/Nightmare Moon and....soooomewhat Chrysalis. 

 

Despite me being a huge Sunset Shimmer, I cannot honestly say I've ever felt sorry for her within the first movie. She was a brat who wanted power and had the weakest/dumbest plan to get it. My love for her only blossomed in RR when I saw her put effort to correct her past mistakes despite the constant reminder of how horrible she was being shoved in her face everyday. DT gets no sympathy from me because of reasons I've already explained in another thread and here:

 

 

I really wish I felt the same way unfortunately, I can't. DT's only influence to be a bully was apparently from her mother. From what I saw, her mother was trying yo force her into being a stuck up pony who needed to look down at every other pony and instill a sense of dominance. Her mother sucked.... yeah...but even with what her mother was trying to do, I still refuse to believe it was her mother's influence that made DT literally bully every pony and trade them because they hadn't reached puberty yet. Everything DT did was from free will. In "Flight to the Finish", DT was smart enough yo realize her old jokes weren't good enough to corrupt her "victims/opponents" and decided to target Scootaloo about her "disability". That is an extreme and nearly unforgivable low for me. In addition to that, DT apparently had a nice father....and was surrounded by ponies who could have shown her a different way. I find it hard to believe that the influence of her mother was THAT powerful over the influence of countless others. Especially how her mother easily backed off the moment DT finally stood up to her.

 

 

...again....I don't dislike her, I just think her excuses as to why she's been a bully for 4 seasons weren't good ones. Same goes for Babs, Trixie and other minor antagonists. Villains, such as Tirek, Discord, Adagio,and Sombra are executed as natural bad guys with no real motive for their actions or desires to wreck havoc on Equestria. Headcanons about these villains does well to make people feel sorry for them, but I'm going to be fair and not include these. What I will go by, is what I've seen in the shows/movies. 

 

And from what I've seen, Luna, Gilda, and Starlight grabs my true sympathy. Gilda was raised in a dump and never actually experienced what it was like to have real friends or even a family for that matter. Every Griffon within Griffonstone was executed in which all they care about is money and nothing else. RD had been the only one to even show Gilda kindness so it made since why she was so possessive and acted like an asshole towards everyone else. One cannot blame an individual for being a c*nt if that was literally all they knew growing up. 

 

Starlight Glimmer is another I feel sorry for. And oddly enough, I don't feel sorry for her because she lost her friend, Sunburst, long ago. In fact, I personally think that was a VERY WEAK root of why she did everything. No....the reason I feel sorry for her is because of her mindset. Starlight went through all that trouble to change time because her "escape" was snatched away from her. I can personally say that having your escape snatched away is one of the worst things that can be done to a person especially if they are already unstable. Starlight lost someone close to her...her best friend which is almost like losing family you care about, and from a broken heart, she blamed cutiemarks. It led to her strong belief that cutie marks was the root of evil....and she honestly wanted to make Equestria a better place without cutiemarks. In the season premiere, we all figured she was brainwashing everypony for a sinister reason but now I'm sure we can all agree she basically brainwashed herself. That village was her escape...an escape from what she had experienced and she wanted to make sure no other pony would feel the same way.  Notice that in the finale, the first thing she rants about to Twilight is how she and her friends took away what she built. And it's because of this why I felt sorry for her. 

 

Luna is another case I believe many can relate to. She's basically the average preteen-young adult who has low self esteem and depression. A pony living in another's shadow that gets consumed by the darkness.....almost like having a blackout...and during that blackout, many things are done and said that you wouldn't do normally by your own will. Afterwards, all you're left with is guilt and a heavier heart. Constantly blaming yourself and pretending to be happy so that others won't realize just how pathetic you really feel. Leading to self harm and a big mess (Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep). Right now....I'm starting to grow tired of feeling sad for Luna....I want things taken in another direction for her. She deserves to be seen in a way stronger light. Because so far, the writers seem to only lead her into a huge pity party. She's more than that. 

 

 

The only reason why I feel for Chrysalis is because she only wants to feed her changlings. She wasn't a great villain tbh....her methods were too basic for my liking. I did admire how she could improvise though. Sometimes I wonder if she would still be executed as a "villain" had their food substance been something else.

 

 

So yeah....these are my thoughts. What villains can you honestly sympathize with? 

Edited December 2, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[LunaDream 331]

I have always had great sympathy for Princess Luna, not just because she is my favorite character. She has struggled with things that I can relate with. Things in my personal life have really reminded me of experiences that have happened with Luna, especially with what you mentioned about depression and such.

 

However, if I am not going to be biased, my other favorite character redemption/character villain would have to be Diamond Tiara. It was sad to see how her personal life affected her attitude towards others. And I am deciding to classify Diamond Tiara as a reformed villain based on how she was portrayed before redemption. 

[Prophet 672]

I feel sorry for Sombra

Sombra from the MLP comic has a lot more to him.

He is found as a colt in the wasteland of the arctic north near the Crystal Empire and put in a orphanage sense he had no family.

Sombra could only say his name and was made fun of. 

Now Sombra became evil from an encounter with a red stone that claimed to be his mother and told him that hes a living shadow created to destroy the crystal empire.

Sombra in my mind is gone, hes just a shadow of hes former self 

[Carl Poppa 464]

I personally don't feel sorry for Starlight Glimmer at all. I understand how the loss of her friend affected her, but seriously, it was a weak motive and she came to an idiotic conclusion. She took away others' special talents, thus making them empty shells, because she felt abandoned by a friend she probably could have just sent letters to. That's... well it's something.

 

I don't feel sorry for Chrysalis either. Just didn't really see a reason to.

 

Nightmare Moon/Luna and Gilda, though, I do have sympathy for. And I'm glad they seem to both be on the path to recovery. The two of them were given more depth, and certainly are more relatable.

 

I also have some sympathy for Discord after his reform, trying to befriend the mane 6 and struggling with jealousy over Tree Hugger, if that counts. Before his reformation though, no sympathy.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Rubeus

[Silver Stream. 708]

I feel sorry for Sombra

Sombra from the MLP comic has a lot more to him.

He is found as a colt in the wasteland of the arctic north near the Crystal Empire and put in a orphanage sense he had no family.

Sombra could only say his name and was made fun of.

Now Sombra became evil from an encounter with a red stone that claimed to be his mother and told him that hes a living shadow created to destroy the crystal empire.

Sombra in my mind is gone, hes just a shadow of hes former self

 

This could be a mind changer for me. I.forgotten about the comic. I suppose it is tough to look forward to something and it turns out to be the very source of pain for you. Then to top it all off, you find out you're nit even a pony. You're nothing but a tool to destroy where you were raised. One of those "you we're created to be a monster" type of thing.

 

However, his choice to follow his "destiny" could have been avoided had the Princess acknowledged the pain he had to endure and offer a way to help. Sometimes keeping silent in hopes someone choose to do the right thing isn't always the best approach.

 

So if I were to include the IdK comics...then yeah....I'd add Sombra on my list. But in my personal case, I'll just go from what I've seen on the show. And from what little they've said, he was just your typical tyrant with the desire to spread his reign and gain even more power.

 

 

However, if I am not going to be biased, my other favorite character redemption/character villain would have to be Diamond Tiara. It was sad to see how her personal life affected her attitude towards others. And I am deciding to classify Diamond Tiara as a reformed villain based on how she was portrayed before redemption.

 

I really wish I felt the same way unfortunately, I can't. DT's only influence to be a bully was apparently from her mother. From what I saw, her mother was trying yo force her into being a stuck up pony who needed to look down at every other pony and instill a sense of dominance. Her mother sucked.... yeah...but even with what her mother was trying to do, I still refuse to believe it was her mother's influence that made DT literally bully every pony and trade them because they hadn't reached puberty yet. Everything DT did was from free will. In "Flight to the Finish", DT was smart enough yo realize her old jokes weren't good enough to corrupt her "victims/opponents" and decided to target Scootaloo about her "disability". That is an extreme and nearly unforgivable low for me. In addition to that, DT apparently had a nice father....and was surrounded by ponies who could have shown her a different way. I find it hard to believe that the influence of her mother was THAT powerful over the influence of countless others. Especially how her mother easily backed off the moment DT finally stood up to her.

I personally don't feel sorry for Starlight Glimmer at all. I understand how the loss of her friend affected her, but seriously, it was a weak motive and she came to an idiotic conclusion. She took away others' special talents, thus making them empty shells, because she felt abandoned by a friend she probably could have just sent letters to. That's... well it's something.

I don't feel sorry for Chrysalis either. Just didn't really see a reason to.

Nightmare Moon/Luna and Gilda, though, I do feel sorry for. And I'm glad they seem to both be on the path to recovery.

Agreeing with it being a weak motive...as I said in the first post. Though we have to remember she was just a child. A child's mind is a precious and very delicate thing. A bad experience as a child may have a more extreme and long term affect than that same experience for someone older or more mature. I agree it's a bit silly she blamed cutiemarks. Twilight did too when she said "that's ridiculous ".... but at the time Starlight was too young to understand that accusing cutiemarks as the root of evil because of losing a friend was beyond absurd.

 

What I disliked was what LITTLE we were seen. We still aren't sure just how close she was to Sunburst. If they were as close as I assume, then her heart was broken at a very young age (and no I am not talking about "in love" sort of thing...just a deep friendship). When a heart breaks, it can grow back twisted right? I hearsd that somewhere.. ...anyway....I think it was because of this she became unstable. And as I said, this is why I feel sorry for her. The village was her escape....the beginning to what she truly would be the start of a "perfect world where cutie marks will not ruin lives as she thought it did for her" and it was taken away from her. Almost like how roleplaying on a site was an escape for me when I was going to a tough time...a day without it was pretty toxic until I got my shit together and detached myself.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Aurora Storm 83]

I would have empathized with Starlight Glimmer a LOT more if they had given her a decent backstory. Her friend got his cutie mark and went away?  Stuff like that happens all the time. Friendships change, people grow up, life happens. It's especially far fetched because clearly even if he was so talented, she certainly learned to hold her own. Instead of creating a cult of "equality" she could have found more constructive ways to use her magic and intelligence. I really want to like and feel sorry for her but her motivation was just weak in my opinion.

[JonasDarkmane 19,789]

Well, I consider the comics to be relatively canon so I would say Sombra. He is my Arthas Menethil of MLP. Arthas is a character from World of Warcraft, my favorite and one that I have sympathized with the most. Sombra's story, according to the comics, reminds me a lot about Arthas's one. 

 

However, if I am not to go with the comics, I will say Luna, as I could understand most of her pain and her self punishment. 

[Megas 27,831]

Oh man, Starlight Glimmer's "redemption" was really bad and poorly handled, it equally rivals Trixie and Sunset Shimmer in terms of bullshit. And her reasons for going crazy, stealing cutie marks and changing the future was really sad, but not in the "awww I feel sorry for her" sad, but the "holy shit, really?" sad

 

Then again, it's really rare for me to feel bad for any of the antagonists of this show. Along with echoing everyone saying Sombra due to the comics, Diamond Tiara and Gilda are the only one's I could get behind, as I felt the reasons for their rotten behavior in the past was pretty believable without turning them into pathetic sob stories. Also gonna throw in a vote for Lightning Dust, while her reasons for getting kicked out of the WA was entirely her fault, seeing her crushed expression after getting her badge ripped off and kicked out earns some sympathy points

[PoisonClaw 8,166]

I don't sympathize with Starlight, but I don't really have a problem with her redemption. Yes, her reason for doing all this was paper thin and doesn't excuse her one bit, but in the end she wasn't doing all this to destroy Equestria, just to screw with Twilight. Once Twilight showed her the lifeless wasteland that Equestria would become, she began to second guess herself. 

 

Who I do sympathize with are Diamond Tiara, Gilda, Trixie and, depending on your interpretation, Chrysalis. I actually liked Diamond Tiara prior to Crusaders of the Lost Mark, so seeing her all sad and depressed was heartwrenching, Gilda may have been a jerk, but she was afraid that possibly her only friend was being taken away from her and Trixie stretched the truth, but she didn't deserve to have her carriage smash and her reputation ruined because two idiots though it would be awesome to literally go and poke a bear. 

 

Finally, Chrysalis has my sympathy depending on how she's represented. If she's like the comic Chrysalis who has outright stated to be Evil for the Lulz rather than the popular fan theory that all she was doing was trying to feed her changelings and prevent them from going extinct. Her methods were awful, but her motive may have not been entirely evil. Course, then we had the alternate future which shows that she does just want to, you guessed it, take over the world.

[Red Cedar 1,408]

The one who most has my sympathy is Chrysalis, who was trying to secure a source of food for her kind and thus ensure their survival, even if there was a distinct thread of megalomania running through her as well.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Definitely Starlight Glimmer. I've had friends turn on me because of bullies and stuff...during middle school. Ugh...those times were the worst...

[Arrowstormen 62]

I think most people mistake Starlight Glimmer's background story as a reason for villainy, instead of merely being a reason for her believing in the ideology she believes in. The only thing she does wrong is going a bit too far in trying to prove that she's right, which in the finale had the unintended consequence of leading to the apocalypse. 

 

On the topic of sympathy, here are the ones I don't sympathy with:

Sombra is a force of nature bad guy, I know the comics have an arc saying otherwise, but I don't care about that when we talk canon.

Chrysalis is an invader, sure she does it to "feed" her people, but when has "hey guys, we need your resources" been an excuse for invasions? 

Discord is a guy who wants to have a good time at the expense of everyone and everything, because that's who he is. 

Tirek is Tirek.

Sunset Shimmer and the Dazzlings were dicks because they wanted power.

 

I guess Trixie wanting people to think she's great and powerful, Gilda simply being how she is because that's the society she was raised in, Luna becoming Nightmare Moon because she was jealous and Starlight Glimmer wanting to create her utopia to prevent herself from ever being hurt again are relatable to varying degrees, depending on who you are. 

 

I will probably give the award to Gilda, because I'm a sucker for sociology. 

Definitely Starlight Glimmer. I've had friends turn on me because of bullies and stuff...during middle school. Ugh...those times were the worst...

How is that like Starlight Glimmer's situation? 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Arrowstormen

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,162]

Being one who counts (most) of the comics as canon, I tend to sympathize with Sombra the most considering what he had to deal with and continues to deal with. Granted it doesn't excuse his actions, but at least there is a base to understand them.

 

As for the rest (again, with comic lore):

 

Chrysalis was born evil; period. Granted she has her subjects interests at heart, but she doesn't care about anyone else.

Nightmare Moon was born out of petty jealousy.

Discord just loves chaos.

Tirek wants power.

Starlight's actions were born out of the feeling of isolation through misunderstanding.

[Silver Stream. 708]

So from what I understand....it seems many feel sorry for Sombra based on the comics "Fiendship is magic"

 

Does that mean it's Canon?

[mars 4,863]

So from what I understand....it seems many feel sorry for Sombra based on the comics "Fiendship is magic"

 

Does that mean it's Canon?

Although I (and a lot of other people) take the comics as canon, I believe Word of God stated that they aren't (necessarily).

 

Back on topic, I feel the most sympathy for Sombra, Starlight Glimmer, and Diamond Tiara.

[Prophet 672]

So from what I understand....it seems many feel sorry for Sombra based on the comics "Fiendship is magic"

 

Does that mean it's Canon?

If it is or isn't canon his backstory is kinda open.

All we really know about this guy he stole the heart then took over the empire but in the mlp show is kinda shows you no one is just evil. So trying to figure out why someone is pushed that far is apart of it. 

So Its really up to you until they really make something canon

[1Bit 1,531]

I only really feel sympathy for Starlight. While I like Sunset as a hero much more than a villain, its not because I feel sympathy, but more because she's really well written as a hero. It just annoys me we had to go through a whole movie of her being a cliche villain to get to that. 

 

I feel like a few who complain about Starlight don't fully understand her situation (not saying their opinion is any less valued, but it just feels like people misinterpret her character). But her actions are completely relatable to me. I won't go and talk about my depressing back story or whatever, but I lost a best friend much like she did and it tore me apart just like it tore her apart. It's not ridiculous, its not a weak excuse. It's a very real thing.

 

I will admit, I'm a little confused about all the sympathy for Chrysalis. I feel I missed something about her character 

[Castle Bleck 19,386]

Comics!Sombra, especially since he still manages to have an Even Evil Has Standards moment every once in a while.

 

Twilight'sKingdom!Discord is also a Jerk@$$ Woobie.

 

I will admit, I'm a little confused about all the sympathy for Chrysalis. I feel I missed something about her character 

 

Edited December 2, 2015 by A.V.

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

If I could include the comics, then ComicSombra takes the cake, easily.  

But of the show villains, I honestly find weak Tirek somewhat relatable. I mean this is a guy who's brother betrayed him and has been locked in prison for over a 1000 years, him being angry and wanting revenge is somewhat understandable, though it is balanced out by him just being in it for the power. 

[1234zua 19]

Definitely Starlight Glimmer. I've had friends turn on me because of bullies and stuff...during middle school. Ugh...those times were the worst...

I agree. This is why I hate losing friends, because they become my enemies.

 

I also sympathize with Starlight and feel that her Freudian excuse is justified. I noticed that the only people who don't sympathize with her were the ones who probably had a lot of friends growing up and they were popular in school.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 513]

Sunset-even if she didn't turn bad at first, it wouldn't have made a real difference in that she still wouldn't achieve her dream/goal since Twilight was predestined for her position regardless according to Cutie Mark lore and its correlation to destiny as well as hers being on the Tree of Harmony, it seems that even if she did continue her studies, listen to Celestia, and try to befriend others-things wouldn't work out for her anyway because the Princess of Friendship title and being the successor to Celestia was always meant for Twilight the futility of that and her being stuck in the human world make feel sorry for her.

 

 

Lightning Dust also has my sympathy because she was praised for her reckless actions by her idol and promoted for it, so it made sense for her to continue down that path since it was rewarding behavior, up until a random group of ponies arbitrarily decided to float into the academy's airspace and as a result Rainbow Dash reported her but, failing to mention the part she played in helping create the tornado only to be stripped of her rank without so much of a warning not to mess up again beforehand, being kicked out of the academy and having her hopes and dreams shattered due to incompetent and inconsistent leadership on Spitfire's part with as well cruel twists of fate-there's a reason I like to believe the cut ending is canon.

 

 

Trixie may have been fully responsible for the events of 'Magic Duel' with purposefully and irresponsibly getting a dark magical object without understanding how to control it purely for the sake of revenge-she was also dealt a bad hand in terms of audience and circumstance in her first appearance where yes, she exaggerated her ability-which is pretty common for any stage musician or actor-but, Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash rather hypocritcally made a big deal out of it in a way that made them come off as jealous and if she conceded to them, word would spread and she would lose her audience, with the Ursa Minor she at least tried to stop it, instead of throwing down a smoke bomb and bailing.

[Frostgage 7,976]

Hmm, probably Trixie. I'm not even sure why exactly. She seems lonely ;-;

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

 

 

her Freudian excuse

 

Ah, a little psychology I see. Yes, this is the ego and she believed that all ponies had a big ego because they were different (because of cutie marks), which drove to do what she did.  

[PacificGreen 1,163]

Sombra, because I like crystals and I don't say much.

 

And I like enslaving ponies.

 

Just kidding. I'm not sure I actually sympathize with any of he villains, this will require some thought.

[1234zua 19]

Ah, a little psychology I see. Yes, this is the ego and she believed that all ponies had a big ego because they were different (because of cutie marks), which drove to do what she did.

To be fair, while I don't think what Starlight did was right, but she does have a point that some people think they are better than others (Diamond Tiara, for example).