Brainwashing in MLP

[Hephzi 10]

Every since the premier of friendship is magic, there has been something a little bit odd about villain reformations. The best example would probably be Luna's reformation. It is often said that Luna was "freed" from Nightmare Moon and it is implied in the comics that the Nightmare was a separate entity to Luna. We don't know enough about Nightmare Moon and Luna to say much, but the idea of an instant reforming spell is still a little bit creepy. Same with Cadence's love magic. What do you all think?

[Silver Stream. 708]

I wouldn't consider Luna's case brainwashing as I am aware that within the comic books, a dark entity took over Luna making her Nightmare Moon. In that specific case, I think it implies how depressions, inner bitterness, and insecurities can attract "dark forces" (dark thoughts and such) and cause you to dive deeper into depression to the point you lose yourself. The dark entity that took over Luna AND Rarity never actually brainwashes them because the things they whisper to them are already known fears/dark thoughts that both Luna and Rarity possessed prior to be consumed.   It's more like listening to your own dark conscious and letting it take over. When it comes to her "reformation" I wouldn't consider that brainwashing either.....I strongly believe she was freed. Because the moment she is Luna again, she instantly stresses how much she missed her sister. Another example would be in the episode "Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep" ....you see in the beginning she dreams that Nightmare Moon was defeated and she was herself again. And then when she wakes up, she is troubled because her dream ended "GOOD" meaning she was imprisoned by the dark entity as some may assume and wanted to be freed anyway

 

 

 

 

Cadence love magic is another story. Mmmm......I am not sure if brainwashing would be the correct term, but I do see it as forced love upon others. But I don't want to bash Cadence too much since I've only witnessed it once from her. I see that more as the writers' mistake to ever include a scene where a couple is doing common bickering and she randomly shoots a "love arrow" there way to get them to stop and be lovey dovey again. I personally never liked the idea of there being a "Cupid". Other than that, we've never witnessed any other similar actions.

 

 

 

 

If you want to come up with a better example of why you think brainwashing is within MLP, try using the episode "The Cutie Map pt 1&2" where Starlight not only brainwashes the entire town, but she brainwashes herself also.  

 

 

Villain reformations are inevitable even if they seem rushed or ridiculous. I don't think brainwashing plays a big part in that. That's my opinion  

[20% Cooler Than Cake 161]

I agree with Silver Stream that Luna's reformation was the process of her being freed from Nightmare Moon. However, I personally believe that it was Luna who ultimately created Nightmare Moon in the first place, when her jealousy and hatred became so strong and defined that they managed to become a separate entity. I think that it was her own emotions which she had created that were what took control of her in the end, and that is why she learned that by bottling up your feelings, dark thoughts can grow increasingly stronger until they take over you.

 

As for Cadance's love magic, the show really doesn't explain how it works, but I am assuming that she doesn't simply hand out love, but makes existing love more apparent. For example, when we saw her use this magic in the show, it was on two ponies that were arguing about a hooficure. I believe that her magic allowed them to realize that a hooficure isn't a reason to deteriorate a relationship, and therefore she was only helping the two ponies in something that they had both already signed up for.

 

Of course, Twilight's mention of an instant reforming spell in "Keep Calm and Flutter On" is still a little bit too much for me. 

[KatonRyu 1,026]

I think all the magic does to the villains is break the hold their negative emotions have over them. At that point, I think it's up to them whether or not to give in to them again, or stay on the right path.

[cider float 2,536]

Every since the premier of friendship is magic, there has been something a little bit odd about villain reformations. The best example would probably be Luna's reformation. It is often said that Luna was "freed" from Nightmare Moon and it is implied in the comics that the Nightmare was a separate entity to Luna. We don't know enough about Nightmare Moon and Luna to say much, but the idea of an instant reforming spell is still a little bit creepy. Same with Cadence's love magic. What do you all think?

Nightmare Moon is not a separate entity she is a part of Luna. Luna is well aware of what she did as Nightmare Moon since she has a lot of grief and in her song she says she is Nightmare Moon. Maybe calling it her alter ego is correct but it's not like it's the devil that possessed her or anything.

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by cider float

[FrozenSpark 47]

Nightmare Moon is not a separate entity she is a part of Luna. Luna is well aware of what she did as Nightmare Moon since she has a lot of grief and in her song she says she is Nightmare Moon. Maybe calling it her alter ego is correct but it's not like it's the devil that possessed her or anything.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fphUZV7dKUw

She was possessed by the nightmare forces, just like Rarity in the comic approved by Hasbro, you do know about Nightmare Rarity right ? 

Edited January 7, 2016 by FrozenSpark

[cider float 2,536]

She was possessed by the nightmare forces, just like Rarity in the comic approved by Hasbro, you do know about Nightmare Rarity right ? 

Comics are not canon to the show

[Twireadbok 142]

Comics are not canon to the show

 

Maybe, but they still present a feasible theory on how nightmare force works. That being said I thought nightmare Rarity was a little stupid: 

 

If I was an evil force, taking possessing a powerful alicorn princess seems logical, where as possessing a fashionista just doesn't seem all that logical.

[FrozenSpark 47]

Comics are not canon to the show

In "Luna eclipsed" Luna said that Twilight took away her dark powers, so my question is where did she get the dark powers ? Thats probably how she defeated Celestia forcing her to use the elements.

Maybe, but they still present a feasible theory on how nightmare force works. That being said I thought nightmare Rarity was a little stupid: 

 

If I was an evil force, taking possessing a powerful alicorn princess seems logical, where as possessing a fashionista just doesn't seem all that logical.

The nightmare forces already did take over a alicorn and since that didn't work they thought maybe taking over one of the mane 6 so they wont be defeated again is a good idea, Twilight being corrupted wouldn't make sense because she is the main hero so since it had to be a unicorn because all villains are magic users Rarity was the only choice and it worked she became invincible, no one was powerful enough to stop her.

[cider float 2,536]

In "Luna eclipsed" Luna said that Twilight took away her dark powers, so my question is where did she get the dark powers ? Thats probably how she defeated Celestia forcing her to use the elements.

The nightmare forces already did take over a alicorn and since that didn't work they thought maybe taking over one of the mane 6 so they wont be defeated again is a good idea, Twilight being corrupted wouldn't make sense because she is the main hero so since it had to be a unicorn because all villains are magic users Rarity was the only choice and it worked she became invincible, no one was powerful enough to stop her.

Powers are not an identity let's get that straight. But alter egos and multiple personalities are still you. 

[Riganthor 483]

well I am not sure about Luna and Cadance but they did reverence a "reforming"spell in season 3 when they tried to reform discord. The existence of such a spell is already troubling but that the main 6 wanted to use this spell is even worse because such a spell IS without a doubt brainwashing.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Powers are not an identity let's get that straight. But alter egos and multiple personalities are still you. 

 

I somewhat agree with this, but I don't think Nightmare[insert name here] is an alter ego nor is it a multiple personality. It's basically the entity of one's fears/hatred/other negative feelings that lurk based off strong emotion. Negative feelings such as depression or hatred or fear is not a multiple personality. 

 

Whether the comics are considered canon or not, it does shed light to some things in the show. Whatever it is, it still feeds off their negative emotions. In fact, it was Luna's negative emotions that lead to her becoming Nightmare Moon in the first place. The moment she is freed, she expresses how much she missed Celestia despite the fact Nightmare Moon easily kicked her butt and had her stashed somewhere. So this supports the fact that Luna wasn't in full control of the dark entity that consumed her. 

 

I believe the reason why Luna is so remorseful for what happened is because she attracted it in the first place. But then again, this is just my theory. Maybe Nightmare Moon is a multiple personality locked away....maybe it's a dark entity that came and was forced away after the elements of harmony.....no one knows 100%. For now at least

[FrozenSpark 47]

Powers are not an identity let's get that straight. But alter egos and multiple personalities are still you. 

 

That does not answers my question, if the "dark powers" did not come from the nightmare forces then where did they come from, how did Luna became so powerful that she defeated Celestia ?

Edited January 8, 2016 by FrozenSpark

[cider float 2,536]

That does not answers my question, if the "dark powers" did not come from the nightmare forces then where did they come from, how did Luna became so powerful that she defeated Celestia ?

She was always more powerful. That is pretty obvious.

[FrozenSpark 47]

She was always more powerful. That is pretty obvious.

 

Please explain why thats obvious.

[cider float 2,536]

Please explain why thats obvious.

Is this the first time you heard of someone losing their powers in a fictional cartoon?

 

Plus if she lost her dark powers, that means it belonged to her to began with meaning Nightmare Moon is her.

Edited January 8, 2016 by cider float

[FrozenSpark 47]

Is this the first time you heard of someone losing their powers in a fictional cartoon?

 

Plus if she lost her dark powers, that means it belonged to her to began with meaning Nightmare Moon is her.

Ok then, I was hoping you would explain why is pretty obvious Luna was always more powerful than Celestia because i have no idea about any fact indicating that, because if she never was more powerful then its obvious she got empowered by the nightmare forces, I always thought Celestia is more powerful than Luna based on the fact that she is older wiser so more powerful but if you got facts indicating that Luna is indeed more powerful i was hoping you would share them since you said thats obvious.

[cider float 2,536]

Ok then, I was hoping you would explain why is pretty obvious Luna was always more powerful than Celestia because i have no idea about any fact indicating that, because if she never was more powerful then its obvious she got empowered by the nightmare forces, I always thought Celestia is more powerful than Luna based on the fact that she is older wiser so more powerful but if you got facts indicating that Luna is indeed more powerful i was hoping you would share them since you said thats obvious.

Well what I meant was Luna is more powerful than Celestia without the Elements of Harmony. But if Celestia has the Elements of Harmony Luna is defeated. 

 

The facts? Luna was beating Celestia down until Celestia resorted to using the EoH. 

[DANUTERCISD 202]

she can turn into nightmare moon at will, so, she did not lose her power.

[FrozenSpark 47]

 

 

The facts? Luna was beating Celestia down until Celestia resorted to using the EoH. 

 

That does not prove she was more powerful before becoming Nightmare Moon...

[cider float 2,536]

That does not prove she was more powerful before becoming Nightmare Moon...

Um yeah because she is Nightmare Moon. Did you forget how she can make the weather merely change by getting angry in Luna Eclipsed? That very episode basically says she is Nightmare Moon she was on the verge of becoming her again. Nightmare Moon is a persona of Luna like Batman is to Bruce Wayne. Same person.

 

Are we going to say Zero Hour Twilight is a different Twilight? Or Pinkie Pie wasn't Pinkie Pie at that wacko party with inanimate objects?

Edited January 8, 2016 by cider float

[FrozenSpark 47]

Um yeah because she is Nightmare Moon. Did you forget how she can make the weather merely change by getting angry in Luna Eclipsed? That very episode basically says she is Nightmare Moon she was on the verge of becoming her again. Nightmare Moon is a persona of Luna like Batman is to Bruce Wayne. Same person.

 

Are we going to say Zero Hour Twilight is a different Twilight? Or Pinkie Pie wasn't Pinkie Pie at that wacko party with inanimate objects?

How can she become Nightmare moon again if her dark powers were taken away by Twilight using the elements as she said so herself...

[cider float 2,536]

How can she become Nightmare moon again if her dark powers were taken away by Twilight using the elements as she said so herself...

All in all the main question was if Nightmare Moon and Luna are different ponies, so far there is nothing that say they aren't the same. On the contrary there is more evidence that Luna is Nightmare Moon. Why else would she tell Celestia that she is sorry after she was defeated and know everything she has done. 

[Shadowdragon606060 16]

I never thought about itlike that! Cadence is a mind control monster!

[FrozenSpark 47]

All in all the main question was if Nightmare Moon and Luna are different ponies, so far there is nothing that say they aren't the same. On the contrary there is more evidence that Luna is Nightmare Moon. Why else would she tell Celestia that she is sorry after she was defeated and know everything she has done. 

I understand what you are saying and here is what i think : Celestia should be more powerful than Luna based on the fact that she is older, when Luna got jealous of Celestia, she gave in to the nightmare forces, thats probably why she felt guilty because the whole thing started with her jealousy. I'll need facts that its obvious Luna was always more powerful than Celestia, otherwise Luna got empowered by the nightmare forces.