Shouldn't Shining Armor and Cadance technically be an emperor and empress?

[ggg-2 3,553]

The Crystal Empire IS an empire after all.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

And Princesses Celestia and Luna should be queens, not princesses.

 

Hasbro-logic.

[ParadoxicalOutcome 44]

Because according to Hasbro, any ruler that is not a prince/princess is evil. Obviously.

 

I doubt that will ever get addressed in the show, though.

[ggg-2 3,553]

And Princesses Celestia and Luna should be queens, not princesses.

 

Hasbro-logic.

Eh, blame Disney for that.

[pnylvr 185]

The show seems to have a track record of not naming things according to our conventions. Celestia should be a queen, Discord should be a god, and the Crystal Empire should be the Crystal City. Having SA and Cadence be prince/princess instead of emperor/empress is less weird than the other three I listed.

[Steve Piranha 29,428]

Still, the princess thing can be hand waved at least. Yes, sure, they made them princesses because of Disney making their queens evil, but there are some cultures where the main ruler is a prince/princess. About Cadance and Shining Armor though, I see no justification on it, other than empires= evil as seen tons of times

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

They did make Sombra an (unofficial) emperor for a while in the comics.

[snowflame 189]

Eh, blame Disney for that.

Yes 2 evil Queens is oh so much. This is another silly stereotype about Disney like with princesses always need to be saved and most villains are female when neither or them are true (unless maybe you have not watched Disney films since 50s).

 

 

No to answer this thread's question. And here is why, if you want a complicated explanation where titles Emperor and Prince come from and a Rome history lesson (I bet everyone will be super exited lol).

 

Actually the Roman Emperors's official title was Principes (along with some other titles) which meant first citizen (since the impression that Rome was still a Republic was maintained quite a while, Rome hated kings which is why Julius Caesar was assasinated since people thought he was planning to make himself one). It is a modern custom to call every ruler a Emperor. Princip is the word modern prince and princess comes from. Emperor comes from the word Imperator which means commander. In the Republic there could be many generals hailed as Imperator by their troops after military victories but later Augustus (born Octavian) the first emperor made himself the only Imperaror. Over time the term came to mean more than a commander but Princip and Augustus (also a title that was given by the Senate) were the chief titles. Caesar did not become a title immediately either was but a last name originally (since Ocatavian was adopted by Julius Caesar and Octavian later adopted his own successor and so forth).

 

Roman system is officially called a Principate and not a monarchy and functioned somewhat differently including the Emperor always being a private citizen without a magistarate and the Emperor usually being adopted and being officially appointed by the Senate. This is why Julius Caesar is not considered a Emperor since he held magistarate ad both counsul and dictator (then a legimate office) and lacked the title Augustus.

 

So if we remember that Imperator or Emperor means the sole military commander it means that the title does not fit to Cadanze. Furthermore I would nor say Crystal Empire is no more an Empire. Empire needs areas that controls over, this is why Rome was actually a Empire before it had a Emperor when it was still a Republic. The term is anacronist. USA could actually be called an Empire as well (at least according to some people, there is some depate). The Crystal Empire might have been an Empire before it vanished but no more, now it seems just a city state with autonomy.

 

But oviously these terms are used loosely in fantasy fiction where no real source where the name comes from excists. And even in real world Japan has an Emperor but this is a translation from the Japanese word (which I do not know) even though Japan is not an Empire. So the point is that Cadanze could be called an Emperess if the show felt like it. But princess is just as fine. Equestia has 4 first citizens apparently (or is Flurry Heart one too?) so it is not perfect word either even it fits for Cadenze and Crytal Empire but not really tor Luna and Twilight. But we can just imagine that ponies talk in different language and everything is just slightly incorrect translation (like with Japan) of their titles that were created in different circumstances in the past.

 

 

I know I took this way too seriously but I have been reading about Rome recently...

Edited September 11, 2016 by snowflame

[Jeric 46,854]

Yes 2 evil Queens is oh so much. This is another silly stereotype about Disney like with princesses always need to be saved and most villains are female when neither or them are true (unless maybe you have not watched Disney films since 50s).

 

 

No to answer this thread's question. And here is why, if you want a complicated explanation where titles Emperor and Prince come from and a Rome history lesson (I bet everyone will be super exited lol).

 

Actually the Roman Emperors's official title was Principes (along with some other titles) which meant first citizen (since the impression that Rome was still a Republic was maintained quite a while, Rome hated kings which is why Julius Caesar was assasinated since people thought he was planning to make himself one). It is a modern custom to call every ruler a Emperor. Princip is the word modern prince and princess comes from. Emperor comes from the word Imperator which means commander. In the Republic there could be many generals hailed as Imperator by their troops after military victories but later Augustus (born Octavian) the first emperor made himself the only Imperaror. Over time the term came to mean more than a commander but Princip and Augustus (also a title that was given by the Senate) were the chief titles. Caesar did not become a title immediately either was but a last name originally (since Ocatavian was adopted by Julius Caesar and Octavian later adopted his own successor and so forth).

 

Roman system is officially called a Principate and not a monarchy and functioned somewhat differently including the Emperor always being a private citizen without a magistarate and the Emperor usually being adopted and being officially appointed by the Senate. This is why Julius Caesar is not considered a Emperor since he held magistarate ad both counsul and dictator (then a legimate office) and lacked the title Augustus.

 

So if we remember that Imperator or Emperor means the sole military commander it means that the title does not fit to Cadanze. Furthermore I would nor say Crystal Empire is no more an Empire. Empire needs areas that controls over, this is why Rome was actually a Empire before it had a Emperor when it was still a Republic. The term is anacronist. USA could actually be called an Empire as well (at least according to some people, there is some depate). The Crystal Empire might have been an Empire before it vanished but no more, now it seems just a city state with autonomy.

 

But oviously these terms are used loosely in fantasy fiction where no real source where the name comes from excists. And even in real world Japan has an Emperor but this is a translation from the Japanese word (which I do not know) even though Japan is not an Empire. So the point is that Cadanze could be called an Emperess if the show felt like it. But princess is just as fine. Equestia has 4 first citizens apparently (or is Flurry Heart one too?) so it is not perfect word either even it fits for Cadenze and Crytal Empire but not really tor Luna and Twilight. But we can just imagine that ponies talk in different language and everything is just slightly incorrect translation (like with Japan) of their titles that were created in different circumstances in the past.

 

 

I know I took this way too seriously but I have been reading about Rome recently...

Thank you for that. I was going to cover a few inconsistencies in the common understanding of the term Emperor. Also amusing is that when some leaders had an official title of Emperor, we know them by another title (Czar Nicholas II was formally referred to as Emperor Nicholas II).

 

Go figure.

 

It bears mentioning that Cadance is technically an immigrant and that the Crystal Empire went through a rebirth after a complete subjugation by a dictatorial ruler. While they have shown a distinct fondness for tradition, such a change in title for Cadance may have been considered inappropriate or even unsettling by the citizens of the Empire.

[pnylvr 185]

 

 

Cadance is technically an immigrant

Is she, though? Remember, Tirek knew there was a third alicorn princess, and he'd been imprisoned for over a thousand years, so she's probably at least that old (assuming the third he knew about was her), and there was a pony who recognized her when she retrieved the Crystal Heart. It's possible she was originally from the Empire and stuck outside when it disappeared. Yes, she was visibly younger when she was foalsitting Twilight, but age spells are a thing.  

[LyricaDreamy 43]

Is she, though? Remember, Tirek knew there was a third alicorn princess, and he'd been imprisoned for over a thousand years, so she's probably at least that old (assuming the third he knew about was her), and there was a pony who recognized her when she retrieved the Crystal Heart. It's possible she was originally from the Empire and stuck outside when it disappeared. Yes, she was visibly younger when she was foalsitting Twilight, but age spells are a thing.

Tirek knew that the Crystal Empire existed ,but 3 princess? Where did he get that from? Also Candence must be around her Early 30's like Shining ,and yes, age spells are a thing . But why would she cast them? Edited September 12, 2016 by LyricaDreamy

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Its an empire that's composed of one single city

 

I think the name is a bit misleading IMO.

[Regent 77]

Its an empire that's composed of one single city

 

I think the name is a bit misleading IMO.

 

Head cannon: because it's all that remains of a 1000 year old empire? I mean, yeah, currently it's EPCOT, but once upon a time... (Snowflame suggests this above as well).

[Cwanky 17,597]

Eh, blame Disney for that.

Precisely. When's the last time you heard a little girl say, "I want to be a queen!" Almost never. Its too authoritative and not pretty and elegant in marketing.

 

For all the changes FiM has made, at its root its still MLP, which has historically been a show targeted at stereotypical little girls. Just watch the commercials and you'll know what I mean. Plenty of hair brushing, high pitched voices and glitter. 

[cmarston1 5,959]

If the show says that they are a prince and a princess, I don't see why I shouldn't refer to them as such.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

Is she, though? Remember, Tirek knew there was a third alicorn princess, and he'd been imprisoned for over a thousand years, so she's probably at least that old (assuming the third he knew about was her), and there was a pony who recognized her when she retrieved the Crystal Heart. It's possible she was originally from the Empire and stuck outside when it disappeared. Yes, she was visibly younger when she was foalsitting Twilight, but age spells are a thing.  

 

My theory is that she was stuck in some type of time bubble shorty after she became an Alicorn Princess, and was released shortly before Twilight joined the School. That is just a theory though. There is no evidence, but it is a nice way to explain the plot hole.

 

 

*Edit: As for the crystal pony remembering her, we already know that the crystal ponies live for thousands of years since they were around when Sombra was in power.

 

 

*DOUBLE EDIT: I just realized, the entire Crystal Empire disappeared! What if the entire Empire was trapped in the time bubble? And Celestia was able to release Cadance from the time bubble before it actually wore off causing the rest of the Empire to reappear! 

 

(I should become a YouTube theorist)

Its an empire that's composed of one single city

 

I think the name is a bit misleading IMO.

 

If you remember, in the Season 5 Finale, they had a alternate future where Sombra was taking over. If you remember, in that future, Twilight said that the Crystal Empire took up have the map. So it is an Empire, just not really right now  because it is so small. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Babyyoshi309

[pnylvr 185]

 

 

Tirek knew that the Crystal Empire existed ,but 3 princess? Where did he get that from?

 

One of the reasons Twilight was given the alicorn magic was that Celestia/Luna/Cadence didn't think Tirek knew there was a fourth alicorn princess, implying that he knew there was a third. 

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

My theory is that she was stuck in some type of time bubble shorty after she became an Alicorn Princess, and was released shortly before Twilight joined the School. That is just a theory though. There is no evidence, but it is a nice way to explain the plot hole.

 

 

*Edit: As for the crystal pony remembering her, we already know that the crystal ponies live for thousands of years since they were around when Sombra was in power.

 

 

*DOUBLE EDIT: I just realized, the entire Crystal Empire disappeared! What if the entire Empire was trapped in the time bubble? And Celestia was able to release Cadance from the time bubble before it actually wore off causing the rest of the Empire to reappear! 

 

(I should become a YouTube theorist)

 

Twilight And The Crystal Heart Spell reveals Cadance's origin: She used to be a Pegasus whose special talent ended up saving her (non-Crystal-Empire) homeland and then catching Celestia's attention (cue ascension afterward).

Edited September 13, 2016 by A.V.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

Twilight And The Crystal Heart Spell reveals Cadance's origin: She used to be a Pegasus whose special talent ended up saving her (non-Crystal-Empire) homeland and then catching Celestia's attention (cue ascension afterward).

 Umm... Was that supposed to prove my theory wrong? 

I am perfectly aware of Cadance's origin. I am pretty sure that does not affect my theory, but please correct me if that is incorrect.

[snowflame 189]

 

One of the reasons Twilight was given the alicorn magic was that Celestia/Luna/Cadence didn't think Tirek knew there was a fourth alicorn princess, implying that he knew there was a third.

He had already seen Cadance in the throne room when he said that, nothing points him knowing of Cadence before being sent to Tartarus.

 

But I have no opinion of Cadance's origin, wish we would get an episode about that.

[cider float 2,538]

I thought this too. But I suppose one can make the theory that the first rulers of the Crystal Empire were emperors. Don't know why they just won't call it Crystal Kingdom. The title emperor has always been used for an evil tyrannical ruler and conqueror in fiction so they probably wouldn't give Cadence the title Empress.

 

Another thing is that the fact that it's called an "Empire" can imply that it is actually made up of multiple nations not just one. Though it does seem rather small for being made up of multiple nations.

Edited September 16, 2016 by cider float