gaming Super Smash Bros. Thread

[AegisReflector 886]

1. Marth is far more offensive than Ike, King Dedede and Ganondorf(Ganondorf is a turtle character). The last three are to slow to mount effective offensives overall, and need to damage the attacker rather than attack themselves. Well, except for Gdorf, who is just awful period, and can't even do defense right.

 

See, right there. That's what I'm talking about. Not everybody who uses Marth will go on the offensive. I play Marth as a defensive character and with his quick agility and stature, that's the correct definition of the term. No matter how much you put it, everybody is classless. It all depends on the player behind the controller. Sure, the characters all have different ways of attacking and dodging, but these rules and stats weren't officially offered by Nintendo themselves; they were interpreted by the fans and so automatically everybody takes them as fact.

 

And Brawl is a mix of both offense and defense. I've had many melee-type matches where there wasn't three seconds without someone getting hit. Again, it's all about the other person's strategy.

 

And I'm not suggesting that people not play competitively, but to spread information around like it's fact when there's really no solid formula or computer algorithm to ascertain what exactly the characters ARE or what stats they have is where I have a little trouble with. Unless there's any verification within the programming that the character is supposed to have to act like they do in these so-called tiers, I ain't buying it.

 

EDIT: I'm applying this to all fighting games too.

Edited May 14, 2013 by AegisReflector

[Flamegeyser 41]

Pretty hard to make a game with such a diverse cast with different universes, history, and established powers without having imbalance.

[AegisReflector 886]

This isn't a question of not having imbalance. I'm not saying the characters have to be equal (although I AM a Socialist......don't get any ideas =P) or that competitive play should be banned. I'm saying that it's not right to say that Marth is purely offensive when there's no set algorithm for that. People who use Marth do not use him the same. It all comes down to your own attack/defense strategies. It shouldn't have to be a set fact that your character should be considered "cheap" or "weak" just because some people spam or others use advanced strategies.

 

As you can tell, I'm a casual but I would play professionally if I actually went to some damn tournaments or if the Wifi wasn't so horrendously bad on the Wii lol.

[RWB 229]

See, right there. That's what I'm talking about. Not everybody who uses Marth will go on the offensive. I play Marth as a defensive character and with his quick agility and stature, that's the correct definition of the term. No matter how much you put it, everybody is classless. It all depends on the player behind the controller. Sure, the characters all have different ways of attacking and dodging, but these rules and stats weren't officially offered by Nintendo themselves; they were interpreted by the fans and so automatically everybody takes them as fact.

 

And Brawl is a mix of both offense and defense. I've had many melee-type matches where there wasn't three seconds without someone getting hit. Again, it's all about the other person's strategy.

 

Marth can be played offensively AND defensively because he's a great character with speed that allows him both options. Against a decent player, Ike cannot, he's defensive because he's to slow to be anything but. Slow characters are almost always defensive in fighting games.

 

As for the bolded...

That's not actually possible. It's factually impossible because of:

A. the lack of hitstun. Shields are insanely good in brawl, and you can always shieldgrab the enemy out of an attack, while in melee, you would be combo'd or risk a shield break.

B. Melee is just faster period.

C. Characters have different fall speeds.

 

Brawl penalizes offensive play excessively, and rewards defensive play massively. There's a reason why I play the dodgy defensive Wario in Brawl, and the offensive aggressive Jigglypuff in Melee.

 

 

This doesn't even have to do with tiers, but with the game engine. 64 was hyperoffensive- you didn't even really want to shield because any multi-hit move would force you into hitstun long enough for the enemy to start a combo- and in 64, every character that was not Samus could do 0->Death combos.

 

Melee was balanced between offense and defense- hit stun was enough that it deterred just hiding behind a shield, but not so heavy the shield was not usable, nor was there quite as ridiculous in the combo department.

 

Brawl is a defensive game.

[~Rogue~ 193]

I hate the ideas of tiers. Since Nintendo has mentioned that they will 'balance' the characters then the tier list won't exist. The tier lists are absolute bull though. My friend won 2/5 Competitions with Jiggly.

 

I play as snake a lot. Because of explosive ranged if you throw them in the right directness you will never fall of the bottom of the stage. You can also get your enemy into awesome locks and combos. If he comes close you down B, if it is far away using ranged use grenades to attract them closer, and if you ever get close to falling than throw a few grenades and C4s and you're saved!

[Mutemutt 773]

*snip*

 

And I'm not suggesting that people not play competitively, but to spread information around like it's fact when there's really no solid formula or computer algorithm to ascertain what exactly the characters ARE or what stats they have is where I have a little trouble with. Unless there's any verification within the programming that the character is supposed to have to act like they do in these so-called tiers, I ain't buying it.

 

EDIT: I'm applying this to all fighting games too.

 

Well, tier lists are just theories based on quantifiable data (frame data, hitboxes, damage...), lots of testing and actual results (tournament/match results). Any tier list worth mentioning has a lot of work and time put into it. As it stands right now, gravity is still just a theory; I'm not too sure how well founded that theory is, but it's still just a theory.

 

Every character has a set number of tools that they can use in a set number of situations, each characters' tools can contribute to them being more effective in certain situations, which leads to them being more effective when played a certain way. The same thing applies to chess openings (which are also just theories), where white's and black's positions afford them certain advantages that they most likely try to use. So in a roundabout way, it is verified in the programming. A character with short ranged moves will probably need to stick close to the opponent to make use of their tools; a character with many long range moves will probably be most effective played at a range where their effective options are open and the opponent's effective options are limited; A character with powerful command grabs is probably most effective in a position where their command grab is an option. 

 

 

 

I hate the ideas of tiers. Since Nintendo has mentioned that they will 'balance' the characters then the tier list won't exist. The tier lists are absolute bull though. My friend won 2/5 Competitions with Jiggly.

While it would be nice for every character to be perfectly balanced, I wouldn't get my hopes up. There's no way they'll be able to account for every single variable that the community will discover. Nope, I'm certain tiers will make another appearance. Winning 2 competitions is hardly proof of anything, heck it wouldn't prove much even if he one all 5, especially when there is plenty more people winning with top tier characters. 

[Motion Spark 7,807]

My Melee Main is Marth with alternatives Yoshi and Peach. I'm also experienced with G&W and Zelda.

 

My original main was Peach but I quickly grew on Marth ever since that fateful childhood day I unlocked him. He's an awesome asset when it comes to speed and agility, and his sword has quite the range. He might not be a powerhouse like Roy or Ike in Brawl but his slick movements make him a tough opponent to successfully KO.

 

As for Brawl, Marth is still my main but lately I've been extending my variety to Zelda, Yoshi, Ness, and Wario.

:3

 

Peach mainer here, I loved Ness in the first one though I never had N64, In melee I mained Peach and also mained Peach in Brawl, and guess what I plan on maining her one more time in this new smash bros. I like many characters but she's the only one that fits like a glove made just for me.

I LOVE the weird look on people's faces when I pick her (me being a guy) to play and then mop the floors with them using her.

[RWB 229]

When our upper secondary school had a Melee tournament, the final was a pink one.

 

Me using Jigglypuff versus my classmate Thomas's Peach. We both dominated our side of the tournament.

 

 

I won, but barely. Sadly, the only price was a chocolate bar. xD

[Flamegeyser 41]

 

B. Melee is just faster period.

 

COULD play Brawl Minus, much faster than even Melee and with more hitstun than any Smash game ever made. I suck at it and can still kill my opponent without any threat of repercussion after the first hit lands with captain falcon.

[RWB 229]

Yes, you are quite right about that. But I'm really meh at modding things, and I'm not even sure Brawl Minus is available for PAL(Swede here).

[Flamegeyser 41]

Yes, you are quite right about that. But I'm really meh at modding things, and I'm not even sure Brawl Minus is available for PAL(Swede here).

I'm pretty sure it works for PAL, and all you need is an SD card with the things on them(Gecko, Hombrew,) and then to activate this you just need to do bannerbomb, which is extremely easy.

[RWB 229]

Doesn't it have to be a specific kind of SD card, though? something like a 2GB one? I've asked around, and they don't sell those in Sweden...

[Motion Spark 7,807]

When our upper secondary school had a Melee tournament, the final was a pink one.

 

Me using Jigglypuff versus my classmate Thomas's Peach. We both dominated our side of the tournament.

 

 

I won, but barely. Sadly, the only price was a chocolate bar. xD

a chocolate bar! LOL

 

actually in melee, both Jiggly and Peach were quite high in the tier list, however that's only known by experienced players, it's fun how you pick Peach with more casual players and they are like what? why are you picking the princess?!?!

 

how clueless :3

[RWB 229]

Fun part is, during the time the tourney was held, Jiggs was barely considered a high tier(Peach was already established by players like YUNA before Armada arrived). Then Mango came onto the scene.

 

I won by two stocks, finishing the last stock with an Up-tilt into Rest.

 

 

Fun fact, just a month or so later, some guys in the class below us set up an emulator version of Smash 64, using Movie Cannon and one of the school white screens. And they had joypads!

 

I showed up there pretty much every recess to whoop them with Ness. ; ) They were good sports about it.

[~Rogue~ 193]

Tier lists can be bull but to a point..... For example. Meta knight is s+.....He can easily be countered by kirby, another meta knight, snake, lucario, luigi, and most of all Ike. 

 

thats why i think the tier list is BS...to a point

[RWB 229]

Tier lists can be bull but to a point..... For example. Meta knight is s+.....He can easily be countered by kirby, another meta knight, snake, lucario, luigi, and most of all Ike. 

 

thats why i think the tier list is BS...to a point

 

Kirby vs MK

 

MK has better range. Better attack power. Better speed. Superior aerial fighting ability. Superior combat on the ground.

 

How is he countered, again?

 

Most of this applies for Lucario as well(Lucario may have a projectile, but MK just Tornadoes through those).

 

Snake is actually threatening, but is gonna lose overall.

 

Luigi is losing everything against MK.

 

 

 

...Ike. As in slow as molasses, getting killed before I can properly move Ike?

 

 

This isn't even about tiers, you are simply ignorant of the game itself.

 

 

 

Here's a list based of what people playing the characters have agreed on:

 

Edited May 15, 2013 by RWB

[Ihei 713]

Oh my god, I loved this game.

When I was little, I'd play as Meta Knight and I beat my cousin so many times!

Now, I guess I lost my experience as Meta Knight.

I switched to Bowser xD

Bowser WAS one of my personal favorites of Mario, but the other characters of SSB I can't control.

 

...hehe.

 

I cant wait for the sequel though?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Derpy's Muffins

[GrooveBroove 680]

All I know is Snake better be coming back.

He's my main and aside from Ike in Brawl the only character I truly like to play as.

Though if they add some of the charcaters from the Operation Rainfall game's such as Aeron from Pandoras Tower that'll work to.

[KirbyFluttershy 2,523]

Well When I Play as Ness in Super Smash Bros. 64, I normally go with the juggling attacks and then I use PK fire on my opponents to prevent them from reach the gap or attempt to make Meteor Smash (Spike or Down+A while in the air) and then make a recovery, but Sometimes a short jump can execute a Meteor Smash (Spike) on a Opponent.

 

Ganondorf has a good Meteor Smash Attack in Melee, but you have to time it properly when using him against a formidable or tough opponent.

[~Rogue~ 193]

I've started to realize the power of snake.....

 

First of all my friend (who has completely mastered him) will never die as him. He gets the timing perfect. He chucks a grenade off of a ledge on his left in sudden death, I pwn him with an aura sphere, he flies off screen, grenade he threw throws him back onto screen, throws grenade at me, I get pwn, lose.

[Flamegeyser 41]

What is a tier list if not a listing of whomever has the most positive and least negative matchups? Games are made that way, and probably shan't be otherwise.

[Decibel 13]

Who is "Everyone?" Kirby is almost at the bottom of the tier list.

 

 

My mains are Pikachu, and Link. I'm currently trying to pick up Pichu for the shits and goggles.

I wish I could play people that are better than me though. I whoop everyone I've played, and I can barely wave dash.

 

Everyone would include my brother, all of my friends, and all of his friends. So pretty much anyone I play with.

 

Maybe I shouldn't say everyone though, because I don't play online at all.

[Bright Honor 2,671]

Truth is, the only Super Smash Bros. game that I have played was Super Smash Bros. Brawl for Wii. I have to say...very fun game! I don't think I ever had so much fun with a fighter before. I can't wait for Super Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS!!!

[An Old Head 4,816]

 

New Smash Bros. trailer released! Thoughts? Personally, I'm loving the addition of Mega Man  And I'd always speculated that someone from Animal Crossing would make an appearance, but never thought they'd make it practical! (Since when do you get a bowling ball anyway?)

 

I'm seriously considering getting a Wii U just for this. n.n

[Umbral Noir 1,556]

That... was... AMAZING!  Finally they let Mega Man in! I really hope they bring Snake back as well! Why do we have to wait until 2014 though? I want to get it now!