Why isn't anyone calling Rainbow Dash OP?

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

I see a lot of people complain about Starlight's magic, but I haven't seen her do anything nearly as destructive as this.



Rainbow Dash can demolish any structure in one go if she wanted to. Call it a gag if you will, but this still borders on DBZ-Twilight's level from the Season 4 finale.

[Phirun Natela 77]

I'll have you know I've written over fifty novels

Edited June 26, 2023 by Phirun Natela

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,377]

This actually shows how limited RD's abilities. She can do remarkable things with flying but that has its limitations. What I hate about Starright in this regard is that she apparently can just pull new, never before seen magic out of thin air, to the point of being severely overpowered. Her dding all of these calculations and adding spells to other spells and coming up with new ones on the ffy is beyond anything we have seen, even from Alicorns. That is the biggest problem with her character for me.

[Megas 27,593]

Because she isn't?

She's really fast and only slightly less stronger physically than AJ

Plus it's also kind of unfair to compare raw physical strength to God-like unicorn magic from Starlight/Twilight, etc.

3 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

I see a lot of people complain about Starlight's magic, but I haven't seen her do anything nearly as destructive as this.



Rainbow Dash can demolish any structure in one go if she wanted to. Call it a gag if you will, but this still borders on DBZ-Twilight's level from the Season 4 finale.

Cartoon logic usually never counts. Otherwise Pinkie would be the most OP character

[cmarston1 5,959]

That still isn't on the same kind of level as manipulating the fabric of time and space.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

 

I don't think kamikaze diving a dilapidated barn is on the same level as Twilight having an all out battle with a powered up Tirek, or Starlight and her magical feats. RD is a powerhouse in her own right, but her abilities just do not have the range to be as varied and creative as Twi and Star.

However, they are far more colorful and visually awesome.

[SugarCoatxMarblePie 701]

Twi when dueling with Trixie suggested she isn't even the strongest with magic and that some unicorns can trump alicorns. And that's because Twi has less practical experience with magic, being a nerd who studies, and her cutie mark is for the magic of friendship and studying and then a general bonus to magic. For Starlight, its basically just magic, which is why she is a bit directionless after her reform if you discount her magic. Her magic is her boutique or wonderbolts or Twi's castle.

Also when she manipulated time n space, she cannot repeat it due to the scroll being destroyed if I recall, and she didn't do it too op, just only as good as any other time travel device. She didn't specifically choose a route she preferred, so she isn't god tier, a god would foresee the chain reactions and work it out accordingly. And certainly would be smarter than to cause conflict while doing it just to set themselves up for failure.

Now Dash, comparing her to any other pegasi she is 'op'. But compared to Starlight she is much less versatile yes. But flight itself has other advantages as well as being able to manipulate the weather to a high degree. Just because we have the nuke rainboom pic, doesn't mean that's her only ability to measure her power on.

36 minutes ago, GrimGrimoire said:

 

I don't think kamikaze diving a dilapidated barn is on the same level as Twilight having an all out battle with a powered up Tirek, or Starlight and her magical feats. RD is a powerhouse in her own right, but her abilities just do not have the range to be as varied and creative as Twi and Star.

However, they are far more colorful and visually awesome.

You say powered up Tirek, but Twi was powered up too if we recall.

[K.Rool Addict 718]

7 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

I see a lot of people complain about Starlight's magic, but I haven't seen her do anything nearly as destructive as this.



Rainbow Dash can demolish any structure in one go if she wanted to. Call it a gag if you will, but this still borders on DBZ-Twilight's level from the Season 4 finale.

 

Well, let's see, OP. Twilight Sparkle is the element of Magic; in other words, her magical potential is already far in excess to that of a normal unicorn. She trained under the God of her world for many years to both hone her magical potential and learn countless things related to magic. She has saved the world on multiple occasions. She is a perfectionist; constantly trying to go above and beyond what is expected of her. She ascended to Godhood, thereby vastly increasing her magical prowess.

 

^And even after all of this, she is only ON PAR with Starlight Glimmer in terms of her magical fighting ability.   -.- 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

20 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

I see a lot of people complain about Starlight's magic, but I haven't seen her do anything nearly as destructive as this.
 

because that Explosion was only due to "rule of funny", its not meant to be an example of a real ability she can pull out; at all other times the sonic rainboom is just "Goes fast" and not usable as a combat action.

Its like how characters will often display super strength for a joke, but are not assumed to be able to just megaton punch a villain into the next county.

Its only when such abilities are used in dramatic situations that they can be fully and realistically counted as existing for more than joke purposes.

[K.Rool Addict 718]

10 minutes ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

Its like how characters will often display super strength for a joke, but are not assumed to be able to just megaton punch a villain into the next county.

Its only when such abilities are used in dramatic situations that they can be fully and realistically counted as existing for more than joke purposes.

^ Just a visual aid =^-^=

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

11 hours ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

Twi when dueling with Trixie suggested she isn't even the strongest with magic and that some unicorns can trump alicorns. And that's because Twi has less practical experience with magic, being a nerd who studies, and her cutie mark is for the magic of friendship and studying and then a general bonus to magic. For Starlight, its basically just magic, which is why she is a bit directionless after her reform if you discount her magic. Her magic is her boutique or wonderbolts or Twi's castle.

^ THIS. Very much this. Twilight, by herself, isn't even at her full potential. And she shouldn't be. Her element is powered by friendship. Celestia couldn't have said it better: "What is the princess of friendship without her friends?" Just because she's an alicorn doesn't mean she's supposed to be this all-powerful uber deity. Not on the level of the royal sisters, at least. Without those bonds she shares with the Mane Six, she's really just a unicorn with wings. And it shows in the Season 4 finale. Even with all the combined alicorn magic in Equestria, she couldn't stop Tirek on her own. She had to do it with her friends. And the same can be argued about Cadence. Without Shining Armor, her magic wouldn't have been strong enough to drive the Changelings away, and every pony in Canterlot would be cocooned by now.

Some people don't like that Starlight appears to be more powerful than Twilight, and that may appear to be the case. But her magic certainly isn't as potent. I do not see her beating Tirek if he busted out of Tartarus again.
 

8 hours ago, K.Rool Addict said:

^And even after all of this, she is only ON PAR with Starlight Glimmer in terms of her magical fighting ability.   -.- 

And yet Starlight's biggest destructive feat was creating an Akira-dome that..... knocked down all the books in Twilight's library? The yaks did more damage in the castle than that.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

Just now, Unlikeable Pony said:

because that Explosion was only due to "rule of funny", its not meant to be an example of a real ability she can pull out; at all other times the sonic rainboom is just "Goes fast" and not usable as a combat action.

Its like how characters will often display super strength for a joke, but are not assumed to be able to just megaton punch a villain into the next county.

Its only when such abilities are used in dramatic situations that they can be fully and realistically counted as existing for more than joke purposes.

This isn't like Derpy dropping an anvil and a piano on Twilight's head without killing her. That scene was pure slapstick comedy. The barn-crushing scene from Lesson Zero wasn't. It may have been funny, but Twilight and Applejack still had to take cover in that situation. In fact, Applejack's the one who told Twilight to take cover, and that implies she's seen Rainbow Dash do this before.

There's no real evidence that she couldn't create an explosion that big in a scenario that mattered, like a fight against a major villain.  Given the circumstances for each one, there just wasn't any room for that to happen. She's not gonna nuke a swarm of Changelings, for instance, knowing that her friends could be caught in the blast.

[Dark Qiviut 22,388]

22 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

Rainbow Dash can demolish any structure in one go if she wanted to. Call it a gag if you will, but this still borders on DBZ-Twilight's level from the Season 4 finale.

Your comparison doesn't make sense:

1. Dash demolishing her barn is nothing but pure cartoon logic. The visuals are emphasized, yet the stakes are completely downplayed to further hone in the joke. Despite all the beautiful colors and harsh imagery, only the barn suffered damage.
2. Twilight's powers were greatly emphasized because she borrowed the strong alicorn magic from the AliTrio. If she didn't, Tirek would've kicked her plot to the moon. Also, unlike the barn scene, this scene was treated 100% seriously. If Tirek won, Equestria was in deep shit.
   
   Nevertheless, Twilight is very clearly a very strong alicorn magical-wise. She doesn't have the power to raise or set the sun or moon, but she's able to perform her physical magic on other things. No, she can't do a lot of advanced spells like Starlight, but she can harness some (i.e., use strong dark magic to open Sombra's portal inside the Crystal castle, temporarily reverse the gravitational pull within her range so she and Spike can slide down the stairs than climb up, temporarily become part of a book, and turn all of the Mane Six into Breezies).

2 hours ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

And yet Starlight's biggest destructive feat was creating an Akira-dome that..... knocked down all the books in Twilight's library? The yaks did more damage in the castle than that.

Being so strong and powerful doesn't always equate to mass destruction. Any unicorn or alicorn can cast powerful or complicated spells without physically damaging property. Over the last three seasons, Starlight:

1. Casts a special curse that physically takes someone's talents and strengths away in favor of a talent suppressor that physically and psychologically demoralizes ponies.
2. Rewrites sections of Star Swirl's time travel spell (a spell that only caused ponies to travel back in time for only a week) to allow her and Twilight to stay stuck in a time loop until the original timeline is fulfilled.
3. Teleports Trixie out of the manticore's stomach while not teleporting herself.
4. Physically bottles up anger-charged magic to not fall out with Trixie.
5. Physically swaps Celestia's and Luna's magical talents, an act that no pony has done (without an incomplete spell) on screen.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[bluseymoe 258]

I imagine it takes a lot of effort and is used only as a last resort.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

18 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Your comparison doesn't make sense:

1. Dash demolishing her barn is nothing but pure cartoon logic. The visuals are emphasized, yet the stakes are completely downplayed to further hone in the joke. Despite all the beautiful colors and harsh imagery, only the barn suffered damage.

The shot that comes after the explosion clearly shows Twilight and Applejack getting covered in a pile of dirt that came from the hole Dash put in the ground. It wasn't just the barn that took damage.
 

18 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Being so strong and powerful doesn't always equate to mass destruction.

No, but it does when a character is compared to another in terms of combative magic ability. And with Starlight, I'm just not seeing it. "OP" is the most misused, exaggerated term on this forum to describe her. Nothing she did, fighting or otherwise, makes her stand out as such because there's no evidence that Twilight, or any alicorn, couldn't do any of the spells you listed. The only things we know for sure are that Twilight hasn't studied as many advanced spells as Starlight, which could be chalked up to her simply not wanting to cast them (she's never had any desire to mess with ponies' cutie marks, for one), and she doesn't always operate at the peak of her potential.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

On 6/2/2017 at 0:23 PM, K.Rool Addict said:

And even after all of this, she is only ON PAR with Starlight Glimmer in terms of her magical fighting ability.   -.- 

Do not bring Glimmer into things, she's basically a hobo that trained under no one and is somehow Poweful enough to floor the two immortal God princesses of ponykind that trained under the Progenitor of modern magic himself on an IMPULSE.

Starlight is the perfect example of a "randomly super powered" character, there's no reason for her to be able to be anywhere NEAR twilight's level, let alone STALEMATE twilight except "Writer's Fiat".

She's basically like if a random alien from Goku's universe showed up in the normal DBZ universe and was like "Oh hey, I'm just as strong as Goku despite no one having ever heard of me before!"

[Marimo 555]

10 hours ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

is somehow Poweful enough to floor the two immortal God princesses of ponykind that trained under the Progenitor of modern magic himself on an IMPULSE.

She hit them when they were distracted with each other with a spell that doesn't even do damage, just has an effect on them. Just because you have strong magical powers doesn't make you naturally immune to spells even if they're weaker than you unless you're actually trying to defend yourself. It's not like this is an RPG where you gain points in magical resistance along with your magical attack, or how status effects are less likely to work depending on the amount of experience points and levels you have compared to who cast it.

Edited June 4, 2017 by Marimo

[K.Rool Addict 718]

13 hours ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

Do not bring Glimmer into things, she's basically a hobo that trained under no one and is somehow Poweful enough to floor the two immortal God princesses of ponykind that trained under the Progenitor of modern magic himself on an IMPULSE.

Starlight is the perfect example of a "randomly super powered" character, there's no reason for her to be able to be anywhere NEAR twilight's level, let alone STALEMATE twilight except "Writer's Fiat".

She's basically like if a random alien from Goku's universe showed up in the normal DBZ universe and was like "Oh hey, I'm just as strong as Goku despite no one having ever heard of me before!"

 

^Yeah, lol. That was kinda my point xD

Starlight Glimmer is way more powerful than she has any right to be. I don't see how they can possibly make her OP magical prowess seem reasonable outside of making her the "hidden 7th element of harmony" or some other contrived bullshit lol. Oh, and let us not forget about Flurry Heart; if there's an 8+ year timeskip in FiM you can mark my words, Flurry will make both Twilight and Starlight look like Yamcha and Krillin respectively  

Also:

Twilight

Flurry Heart

Starlight

^Coincidence? I think not >:O 

[blackstarraven 142]

I think we are all actually aware that all of the main six (+Starlight)
Are OP By comparison to the rank and file ponies in the show.

That's kind of the point.... They are "The Heros"

[Jeric 46,851]

> Sees examples of Rainbow, Twilight, Starlight, and Tirek being OP 

> Realizes people don't understand context 

None of the characters we have seen in this series is powerful to the point that it breaks the story, the characterization, symbolism, or theme. Everytime Starlight uses her magic it has not only some consequence, but isn't the solution to the problem. Friendship is. 

Saying any of the characters mentioned here is OP is also like saying Goliath was OP compared to David. How did that turn out for the warrior? Friendship, empathy, and communication is the slingshot people. It is not a rainboom, a cutie mark switching spell, a scroll, an amulet, a set of wings, or a chaos welding mishmash of creatures. 

The only 'OP' element in FiM is in its sub title, and it is by design. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

13 hours ago, Marimo said:

She hit them when they were distracted with each other with a spell that doesn't even do damage, just has an effect on them. Just because you have strong magical powers doesn't make you naturally immune to spells even if they're weaker than you unless you're actually trying to defend yourself. It's not like this is an RPG where you gain points in magical resistance along with your magical attack, or how status effects are less likely to work depending on the amount of experience points and levels you have compared to who cast it.

 

The only time we've seen cuite marks being swapped (not just removed, but swapped) it required the Most powerful magical artifact in existence powering up the spell for it to occur (MMC)-- so its still an example of an absurdly powerful spell though.

[Marimo 555]

1 hour ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

 

The only time we've seen cuite marks being swapped (not just removed, but swapped) it required the Most powerful magical artifact in existence powering up the spell for it to occur (MMC)-- so its still an example of an absurdly powerful spell though.

I didn't interpret it as the Elements powering up the spell. They just seemed to be connected to the ones who used each specific one. Twilight's ended up casting the spell for her, while the other 5 were hit with the spell and due to their connections they wound up getting all jumbled, and then because both the pony and the Elements were messed up the proper Element needed to be worn by the proper pony in order for everything to sync up right. And the stuff afterwards was just related to Twilight becoming an alicorn and zapping her to that other realm, not the cutie mark spell.

One thing I kind of wish the episode clarified was if the spell Starlight used was the spell Twilight fixed in a more polished and controllable finished form.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

3 hours ago, Blue Diamond said:

> Sees examples of Rainbow, Twilight, Starlight, and Tirek being OP 

> Realizes people don't understand context 

None of the characters we have seen in this series is powerful to the point that it breaks the story, the characterization, symbolism, or theme. Everytime Starlight uses her magic it has not only some consequence, but isn't the solution to the problem. Friendship is. 

Saying any of the characters mentioned here is OP is also like saying Goliath was OP compared to David. How did that turn out for the warrior? Friendship, empathy, and communication is the slingshot people. It is not a rainboom, a cutie mark switching spell, a scroll, an amulet, a set of wings, or a chaos welding mishmash of creatures. 

The only 'OP' element in FiM is in its sub title, and it is by design. 

Rainbow's dive bomb was used to point out a double standard. If people want to maintain that it's a joke, fine. I still haven't seen any unicorn, barring Super Saiyan Twilight, come close to doing that. And Rainbow Powered Twilight didn't even have to. That's the only way I can see any character being truly OP.

The problem here is that everyone equates being an alicorn to being a god, which is ridiculous. Magic is not uniform between every pony. If Twilight, by herself, was anywhere near Celestia's level, she wouldn't need her friends. The source of her power is friendship which, last I checked, was something that had to be shared with others. And Twilight's friendship magic proved to be even stronger than the rest of the combined magic that Tirek stole from all Equestria. At all other times, she's just a unicorn with wings. So if Starlight's demonstrating more complicated spells than her on a more frequent basis, I say so fucking what? That doesn't make her OP.

And then there's this notion that Starlight shouldn't be that powerful because she had no training under Celestia or Luna. That's like saying you can't be self-taught and have a good career without a college degree. If you're capable of reading a book, you can learn anything. I've yet to hear any sensible argument why advanced magic is something that should be beyond her reach. Starswirl had advanced magic, yet he was just a unicorn, and he more than likely could do things that were more directly threatening than knock hundreds of books off of library shelves.

Edited June 5, 2017 by KillerKingBakudan

[Jeric 46,851]

24 minutes ago, KillerKingBakudan said:

Rainbow's dive bomb was used to point out a double standard. If people want to maintain that it's a joke, fine. I still haven't seen any unicorn, barring Super Saiyan Twilight, come close to doing that. And Rainbow Powered Twilight didn't even have to. That's the only way I can see any character being truly OP.

The problem here is that everyone equates being an alicorn to being a god, which is ridiculous. Magic is not uniform between every pony. If Twilight, by herself, was anywhere near Celestia's level, she wouldn't need her friends. The source of her power is friendship which, last I checked, was something that had to be shared with others. And Twilight's friendship magic proved to be even stronger than the rest of the combined magic that Tirek stole from all Equestria. At all other times, she's just a unicorn with wings. So if Starlight's demonstrating more complicated spells than her on a more frequent basis, I say so fucking what? That doesn't make her OP.

And then there's this notion that Starlight shouldn't be that powerful because she had no training under Celestia or Luna. That's like saying you can't be self-taught and have a good career without a college degree. If you're capable of reading a book, you can learn anything. I've yet to hear any sensible argument why advanced magic is something that should be beyond her reach. Starswirl had advanced magic, yet he was just a unicorn, and he more than likely could do things that were more directly threatening than knock hundreds of books off of library shelves.

I definitely agree with everything you said. As far as Starlight - who is currently battling it out with AJ as my second favorite character on the show - I usually ignore every complaint about her being too proficient with magic because of the inclusion of Sunburst as the figurative yang to her ying (I'll take cool symbolism any day of the week and twice on Thursday), as well as the fact that she has been shown to be studious herself. 

Also being a Star Wars fan - I have long been inoculated by the criticism that characters cannot have inherently stronger abilities or that characters with questionable abilities cannot do something that is objectively outside of the norms against goals that outmatch them. Luke is best Jedi specifically because of that. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Starlight devoted her life to magics, she sacrificed normal social skills for magic studies, hench, we are talking about a unicorn that DONT EVEN KNOW WONDERBOLT EXIST, that girl goes pure Magic Stats and ignore everything else. Twilight's life is not all about magics, i am certainly sure Celestia want to teach her to be a better pony not a powerful magician, she is the freaking princess of friendship. Starlight is more powerful after S5 THANKS to somepony who share the same passion like her, who teached all the spells in the precious library filled with dangerous spells, who is that? It is freaking Twilight Sparkle, if you guys say Twilight is good thanks to her mentor, a Goddess of the sun, then i can say Starlight is good because of how good Twilight is as a magic teacher. 

This debate is getting nowhere, whatever i say will never satisfy you guys anyway, even some people better than me cant. 

What is topic is about!? Eh, yeah, RD, right!? Is she OP? Flying, maybe, she beat Spitfire, right? Physical strength, Maud exists, you know? Fighting, even Rarity can beat the shit out of changeling, RD is not that impressive. Magic, she can control weather like every pegasus in Cloudales, not anything special. Is she best at NAPPING?Yes, she is. RD is not OP, she is just a better flyer and the napping champion with some trivial skills like impersonating or weather control which isnt combat skills.

Random:

Even Rarity can BOUNCE like Pinkie, RD cant even do that.

RD is not the only one who can create nuke, Maud can throw a rock and create nuke with widespread shock wave.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Lambdadelta