Has the show shot itself in the foot?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

 

By giving the original mane 6 goals of positions of importance and responsibility that needed arcs and pulled away from the SoL avenue- Twilight becoming a princess, Rarity having her boutiques, Dash becoming a Wonderbolt- all positions that would require more of their time than gallivanting off on sol things, have the show writers shot themselves in the foot? This is, effectively, why they've brought Starlight in, and given focus to secondary characters, who don't really have a "bigger purpose" in life, other than to go about their daily lives, since there's little else to do with the main cast, as far as development goes. Should FiiM have rebooted after season 5, and dropped the "Mane 6" entirely?

[They call me Loyalty 1,946]

Like there's not much left to do now, is it? Pinkie is a free spirit, by which I mean she has issues. Then we got applejack, which is the same ol' apple, yeap.

Also fluttershy, always forget about her for some reason.

Then there's starlight... but who gives a damn about her anyway?

So, yeah... I would be okay with them advancing the show, let's say 10 years.

My heart couldn't bear it at first, but what else are you gonna do? Applejack decides to get a new hat to spice up her life, rarity realizes painting is her true vocation, dash faces depression over the realization of having no goal anymore, twilight achieves alicorn second form, starlight manages to scientifically prove she's better than everyone else, but nobody gives a damn anyway?

I would feel quite bamboozled if things were to go this route. What I am saying is, pay up hasbro. I want in.

So yeah. Goals are like platonic love, in this case, the further away the better. 

[SugarCoatxMarblePie 701]

Greg explains himself well here, sometimes what he says is kinda debatable but he articulated himself well this time.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

17 hours ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

Greg explains himself well here, sometimes what he says is kinda debatable but he articulated himself well this time.

that was actually my inspiration for this thread. But thanks all the same.

[SugarCoatxMarblePie 701]

37 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

that was actually my inspiration for this thread. But thanks all the same.

For all we know introducing Glimmer might be to help solve some of the problems. Also if Derpy joins Glim n gang I think it'd be swell. Fans would love it and she is silly enough to always provide conflict, for a time anyways. So while his criticisms are valid I think the show could eventually reach that point again. I mean the writers should at least know why the show is popular in the first place. Also Greg forgets the Buy Our Toys meme, which is reason to introduce Glimmer and new ponies, and close the old mane 6 off with them gaining their dreams. The movie will give plenty of toys tho so maybe not.

[Quinch 1,120]

Honestly, I think a better analogy would be that they wore out their old pair of running shoes and put a new pair on.

Okay, maybe it's not a better analogy, but it's the best one I can think of on the fly. Cut me some slack here.

You make a good point about the characters achieving their arcs, or at least the original one. But here's a question in return - why is a reboot preferable to changing the character focus of the show?

[cmarston1 5,956]

Well given how the main cast have all achieved their arcs I think it is time to start wrapping things up.

 

[K.Rool Addict 718]

I sure hope not. I don't want all my abstaining from Season 7 to be in vain! >.<

[Steve Piranha 29,398]

21 hours ago, Quinch said:

 

You make a good point about the characters achieving their arcs, or at least the original one. But here's a question in return - why is a reboot preferable to changing the character focus of the show?

I'm not sure. True, in terms of life goals, there's no much to do with the Mane6, but Starlight may provide the means to keep the show fresh without either rebooting, or giving too much aesop amnesia to the Mane 6. That chance felt wasted last season, but I think this one has shown that Starlight can rise as a character and importance in FiM, as seen in her more in quantity and better received episodes compared to last season

[AlbaTross 1,581]

On 2017-06-15 at 3:25 PM, Nightmare Muffin said:

 

By giving the original mane 6 goals of positions of importance and responsibility that needed arcs and pulled away from the SoL avenue- Twilight becoming a princess, Rarity having her boutiques, Dash becoming a Wonderbolt- all positions that would require more of their time than gallivanting off on sol things, have the show writers shot themselves in the foot? This is, effectively, why they've brought Starlight in, and given focus to secondary characters, who don't really have a "bigger purpose" in life, other than to go about their daily lives, since there's little else to do with the main cast, as far as development goes. Should FiiM have rebooted after season 5, and dropped the "Mane 6" entirely?

Hi, as this topic seems to be specifically about the show it has been moved to Show Discussion.

[Number62 1,257]

If one goal has been achieved, they can always make another one. Besides, a character doesn't always need a goal to be interesting. Just keep putting them in weird situations and see how they work.

[Thrond 3,260]

What makes you think these characters' lives are over, or even that they have nothing interesting left to offer? Dash is still a newbie in the Wonderbolts, Rarity only started expanding her business recently, Twilight is still figuring out how to be a good mentor, and all of these allow for much more growth than keeping those goals distant for the series' entire run. There are so many issues these characters can have in their careers which the show could work with, and it's not like the main six don't have anything left to learn. 

Besides, all six of them still live in Ponyville, so there'a still plenty of room for smaller stories. Starlight was introduced to inject some fresh blood, and side characters are getting development because they have potential. It feels like people read way too much into those facts sometimes.

[FirePuppy 675]

IMO, so far, Twilight, Applejack, Rainbow and Rarity all have gotten what they need as of midway through Season 7. And with Season 8 coming up, Pinkie and Fluttershy still have a chance for an episode just for themselves, and the CMCs also need one other than for themselves or with AJ, RD or Rarity.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

4 hours ago, FirePuppy said:

IMO, so far, Twilight, Applejack, Rainbow and Rarity all have gotten what they need as of midway through Season 7. And with Season 8 coming up, Pinkie and Fluttershy still have a chance for an episode just for themselves, and the CMCs also need one other than for themselves or with AJ, RD or Rarity.

But Spike and Starlight didn't finish their arcs yet, and if Big Mac and Sugar Belle becomes a regular thing, neither did Big Mac. Besides, when certain characters like Rainbow, CMCs, and Rarity have achieved their goals it doesn't mean their arcs are finished yet! They still have unfinished business with certain things.

[FirePuppy 675]

Well, in that case, maybe just one important episode may be okay for Rainbow and Rarity for Season 8, but other than that, NO PinkieDash or RariJack episodes, or especially ones with Applejack and CMCs (like the upcoming Campfire Tales).

[Ingoma 75]

I think the CMC should be focused on more. They have a lot of potential to teach kids lessons about growing up, like in forever filly. Starlight needs to get some REAL character development, instead of tacking her onto more interesting characters. Trixie should stay, and changelings have potential to become steady cast characters. The only problem with this cast is too many unicorns.. they could have a new character from the movie join them in the show! Maybe the princess... But the show has a lot of potential, even if the main 6 are getting wrapped up.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

7 minutes ago, FirePuppy said:

Well, in that case, maybe just one important episode may be okay for Rainbow and Rarity for Season 8, but other than that, NO PinkieDash or RariJack episodes, or especially ones with Applejack and CMCs (like the upcoming Campfire Tales).

I agree with no more PinkieDash and Rarijack, at least for one season, cause holy Wizard of Hope they're such overused pairs! Pinkie and Flutters have still yet to happen, Twilight with Rarity and Applejack individually; CMCs with Pinkie, Spike, and Starlight; and Spike with half the Mane Six, CMCs, and Starlight!

They gotta keep more track of pairs that haven't been used yet, and evening out the starring episodes each character gets! Season 4 did good on that!

[Goat-kun 2,525]

Elevate Starlight so that show can go on ... huh? Answer Starfoals: for whom are you advocating this idea? Not for me. Not for Mane 6 fans. You are not offering a solution. It is but a selfish lie constructed to justify neglect of old characters.

 

New arcs, new goals, new stories: these things can all be granted to Mane 6 with relative ease, don't you agree? Or should I say: why wouldn't you agree? Have I perhaps answered this question already? If you would not stand with other fans then at least be fan enough to give them a proper explanation without all this unnecessary pussyfooting.

 

Unrelated to this is the show's potential. It remains to be examined in the grand scheme of all things; however, all who are stating that it's there at this point in time are nothing but fools. The only potential that is unmistakably there is that of the main H-Bro girl brand, and even then it's about MLP G4, not FIM. That doesn't mean much in this conversation.

[Thrond 3,260]

1 hour ago, MegaSean45 said:

Pinkie and Flutters have still yet to happen

What about "Buckball Season"? 

[FirePuppy 675]

And don’t forget Look Before You Sleep. Applejack and Rarity were both the first ponies ever to interact with Twilight with that episode.

[Megas 27,390]

1 hour ago, MegaSean45 said:

I agree with no more PinkieDash and Rarijack, at least for one season, cause holy Wizard of Hope they're such overused pairs! Pinkie and Flutters have still yet to happen, Twilight with Rarity and Applejack individually; CMCs with Pinkie, Spike, and Starlight; and Spike with half the Mane Six, CMCs, and Starlight!

They gotta keep more track of pairs that haven't been used yet, and evening out the starring episodes each character gets! Season 4 did good on that!

PinkieDash was on hiatus since S1 and didn't use the pair again until S5, and won't be getting another episode until Secrets and Pies. The pairing still hasn't really been used very much and still has a lot left in it

I agree with RariJack though

Edited June 19, 2017 by The Undefeated of the Weast

[Quinch 1,120]

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

Elevate Starlight so that show can go on ... huh? Answer Starfoals: for whom are you advocating this idea? Not for me. Not for Mane 6 fans. You are not offering a solution. It is but a selfish lie constructed to justify neglect of old characters.

I have to say, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at... that's both hyperbolic and really presumptuous.

You're equating giving some attention to another character to removing most {if not all} to all other characters, not to mention a quite extraordinary claim of telepathy. If I can make an in-universe comparison.... maybe watch {or re-watch} Make New Friends But Keep Discord?

1 hour ago, Goat-kun said:

New arcs, new goals, new stories: these things can all be granted to Mane 6 with relative ease, don't you agree? Or should I say: why wouldn't you agree? Have I perhaps answered this question already? If you would not stand with other fans then at least be fan enough to give them a proper explanation without all this unnecessary pussyfooting.

Well, it's simple - to do would require breaking the established characters' behaviour. For example, whom would you substitute for Starlight in A Royal Problem? Or All Bottled Up? How about Every Little Thing She Does? Does it matter more that the characters stay consistent, or what color scheme they use? Personally, I believe that finding {or creating} the right character for a story is a better fit than having to mush an existing one into a mold that the story requires of them. It helps avoid damage to the story elements that have already been developed, and helps expand the world itself. To raise someone should not mean that another would be lowered in return - that attention is not as rare a resource as it might sometimes seem. If anything, I'm reminded of how I felt when I first started watching the show - I wanted to know more about Twilight and Rarity and Applejack and Pinkie Pie, and even Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash. There was Luna and Celestia, and all of these things that we didn't know, about either past or future, about Equestria, and so many other things. And there's no reason that should stop - with old characters, or new. There is always something new to discover, there is always a different perspective to look at, and another life to examine.

"It's remarkable to me how a story like Cranky's search for Matilda could fill this room with such a unique collection of ponies! It makes you realize that everypony is the star of their own story. And it's not just the main characters in our stories that make life so rich! It's everypony – those who play big parts and those who play small. If it weren't for everypony in this room and many more who couldn't be here today, Cranky and Matilda's lives wouldn't be as full and vibrant as they are."

- Mayor Mare, Slice of Life

[AlbaTross 1,581]

I don't think Hasbro or DHX expected the show to run for as long as it has but its unbelievable popularity, especially among an older audience, has probably factored into the decision to keep FiM going.  Keep in mind, the longest running MLP series before FiM ran for like 65 or 66 half-episodes over two seasons.  I think Hasbro was hoping to make MLP relevant again, but I doubt they were expecting it to expand its audience, and they probably only planned for a few seasons tops to start.  I don't think they shot themselves in the foot.  They just weren't aiming for the stratosphere, and yet here we are.

I have thought about whether the changes to the show over the years have been for better or worse, but the only definitive conclusion I could come up with is that it's just different.  Fans who are overly attached to the way things were probably don't like the way things are now, and many have probably long since jumped ship.  Fans who love the way things are now may find it difficult to go back and watch older episodes.  As for me, I don't belong to either camp.  I just started another ruthrough of the show starting with season 1, and it's interesting to contemplate how much things have changed since then, and also how much they've come full circle.

I mean, the show started off with a bang, but then the first season was very slice of lifey, with real-world morals, and that's kind of what season 7 is, and season 6 is in the same boat.  Where it has changed is that the morals have often gotten even more real...oh, and the focus has shifted into new characters...and yeah, various events have changed the show for better or worse.  At this point I'm still intrigued and looking forward to where the series will go next.  If at any point I actively dislike the direction the series takes, beyond the occasional "I don't know how I feel about this" moment, I'm sure I will make it well known.

[Goat-kun 2,525]

2 hours ago, Quinch said:

Snip

So many words, such misunderstanding. I don't even mind Starlight in slice-o-life episodes. I don't mind her being developed. What I do mind are Starfoals who want to elevate her to the status of main character while stating Mane 6 should step down cause they can no longer be developed. Having witnessed your furious reaction, should I presume you're one of those people? No, I won't. Who knows, perhaps there is a bit of a telepath in me

As for other show-related junk that will likely turn this thread into a morass of opinions: So FIM would be lesser if those episodes were different? Perhaps you too are a psychic. And by the by, whose consistence are we talking about? Are you perchance stating that you'd have to break one of Mane 6 in order to make episodes with those lessons? Even better, you are saying that because any other character would not be able to substitute Starlight right down to her hoofsies that the episodes would somehow be invalid. Well, I have news for you sweetiepie: characters and stories are dependent on each other and can thus be suitably modified without going out of whack. Plus, not all lessons IRL shall be added into FIM. Saying you NEED Starlight because you NEED these lessons is arrogance. Besides our psychic prowess, we also share similar views on character development, at least as far as theory is concerned. I guess it's better than nothing.