S07:E14 - Fame and Misfortune

[bluseymoe 258]

I liked the part with Fluttershy telling off the ponies for saying she never learns anything. That same thing could be said about Rainbow Dash: Character growth doesn't happen overnight. It takes a lot of work to change. Also Character Development /=/ Stop Being Yourself! That's a terrible lesson. RD and Fluttershy should never stop being who they are.

[Music Chart Fan 819]

As you might expect, I really don't like this episode. It seems like the premise of the episode is just to set up a bunch of barely-veiled (if at all) fandom stereotypes and portray the ponies demonstrating them as irritating, ridiculous, and intractable. And no doubt there are people who think that that depiction is spot-on, and find the episode hilarious as a result. But I don't think that a lot of the fandom criticisms or stereotypes alluded to in the episode are inherently ridiculous, worthy only of being laughed at. And I also don't think that the analogies really work between the ponies' behavior in the episode and fandom behavior; in fact, it seems to me that those analogies make out members of the fandom to be much worse than many of them would seem to actually be. And that feeds into my final big issue with this episode, namely, that I fear that this episode will just fuel more chastising, ridiculing, and ganging up on others in the fandom who express criticism or minority opinions about the show.

As mentioned above, one issue I have with this episode is that I don't think the analogies really work between the behavior of the residents of Equestria and the (supposed) behavior of people in the fandom. There is a meaningful difference between people in real life criticizing or getting too wrapped up in a fictional cartoon and ponies harassing and being jerks toward the Mane Six themselves. To give a couple of examples, I don't buy that ponies ganging up on Fluttershy and demanding to know why she seems to have to learn the same lesson over and over is equivalent to fans of the show asking why Fluttershy, a fictional character on the show, seems to have to learn the same lesson over and over. I also don't buy that ponies complaining about the character development of the Mane Six in stories in the Friendship Journal, which describes actual events happening to actual ponies in the world of Equestria, is equivalent to fans of a fictional cartoon criticizing the development of characters in that cartoon. The problem I have is that this implied comparison between ponies' behavior in this episode and certain fandom behaviors is that the comparison makes members of the fandom seem significantly worse than I would think many of them actually are. I wouldn't assume that fans who complain about characters seeming to relearn the same lessons or who complain about character development would harass or be jerks toward other people in real life going through similar lessons or development. I would guess that many, if not most, such people are aware that they're criticizing characters in or episodes of a fictional cartoon, and that they would be more tactful or considerate in talking about the behavior of actual people, particularly to those people's faces.

Another issue I have with this episode is that it alludes to a bunch of stereotypes of fandom behavior, but doesn't seem to have anything clever or insightful to say about them. Does the episode give any particularly useful advice on how to deal with or respond to the negative criticisms or behaviors to which it's alluding? Nothing the Mane Six or Starlight do really alleviates the problems in the episode, and the episode deliberately ends with the seemingly intractable mob still outside, undealt with. Does the episode ever model what the happy medium "correct" behavior of fans should be? Essentially everyone other than Starlight, the Mane Six, and the two kids at the end are made out to be insufferable jerks. It seems that there's little else to the episode, after the set-up of making and distributing the copies of the Friendship Journal, other than "Look at these fandom complaints and stereotypes! Aren't they irritating and ridiculous? Point and laugh!", but I just don't agree with that premise, nor do I find it entertaining.

The final big issue is that, even as I was watching the episode, I feared that the episode would be fuel for some people who seem to believe that there are way too many whiners, haters, nitpickers, and overanalyzers in the fandom, and who often make posts (whether directed at specific individuals or not) chastising and condemning that group. I imagine such people might think that this episode vindicates their feelings and their behavior - "even the show's creators think that that group are ridiculous troublemakers and need to stop!". What concerns me is that it seems like many of those people, in their zeal against perceived whiners/haters/nitpickers/overanalyzers, don't appear to see much, if any, value in allowing and encouraging a diversity of opinions. In fact, I've seen commenters openly wish for or directly tell people who don't like certain characters or the direction of the show to shut up or get out. I've even seen a few commenters say that they think people who are too "negative" about the show should be punished or banned. And there are still others who, even if they don't make these arguments themselves, still brohoof or upvote or sympathize with them.

I think I've often had minority opinions, about this show and on other topics, and I've had plenty of criticism and pot shots directed at me over the years, so I might be more inclined to observe this and see it as an issue. But I would think that one of the main reasons to have forums like these is to facilitate sharing and discussion among people with differing views on common subjects, including, in this case, the show itself. I wouldn't see much point in forums where essentially everyone holds the same basic opinions about the show and about its characters, episodes, etc., and where people with unpopular opinions are made to censor themselves or driven out.

One common response I've seen to this view is to protest that there have been people who take it too far by threatening or directly harassing the show's creators, other forum members, etc. And I would reply that those behaviors are almost certainly against site policy, in which case people can just report posts like that to the moderators and move on. I don't think the existence of such relatively rare cases justifies a general attitude against people posting criticism, most of whom don't engage in behaviors like that.

Another common response I've seen is that criticism is well and good in the abstract, but there are (supposedly) some people whose posts don't contribute anything or are nothing but tiresome. But it seems to me that judging exactly which posts or posters have insufficient "value", and therefore should be targeted for ganging up on with ridicule or arguments to stop posting, is an inherently slippery and subjective enterprise. When the forums have members and visitors with a variety of opinions, then posts that some people might consider "low value" or tiresome might be considered interesting or entertaining or relatable by other people. I would rather the forums cultivate an atmosphere of civil engagement with dissenting opinions or otherwise essentially leaving them be, even if it means scrolling past or ignoring some posts or posters, which doesn't seem too burdensome a thing to do.

Now for a few other miscellaneous observations:

Did Toola Roola and Coconut Cream, two fairly young kids, buy all this ice cream they're throwing at each other? Or are they taking the store's, or other customers', ice cream to have their food fight?

How did the Friendship Journal degrade so much that the pages are turning to powder and falling out? Wasn't it in perfectly good shape when everyone was writing in it, probably a few years ago at most?

Furthermore, it seems rather strange that Rarity doesn't seem to recognize the Friendship Journal at all. Again, wasn't it not that long ago that they were writing in it themselves?

When Starlight makes copies of the Friendship Journal, does she also copy all of the potential problems of the original? Rainbow says that Fluttershy's lessons are written so small that they can barely be read, Rainbow is dumbfounded by Rarity's calligraphy, and Rainbow's lessons themselves were written "aggressively". Do those issues all carry over to the copies sold or given out to everyone else?

Finally, where is the material for making all of these copies coming from? Is Starlight creating matter out of thin air, or is she maybe teleporting stocks of paper, ink, etc. from somewhere else? If the latter, are those stocks of materials being paid for?

[Compeador 101]

this episode is basically our fandom in a nutshell lol

at least they didn't referenced the r34, right?

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I'm going to post my initial thoughts here, and save a detailed analysis for a later time. Back around 2012-2013, when I was on this forum a ton, I used to write detailed analyses of episodes in their threads--you can still see these in most of the season two threads, for example. At the moment, however, I am somewhat inebriated, and thus cannot properly analyze.

So, initial thoughts: I thought this episode was absolutely hysterical. I fully expected it to be a meta commentary on fandom in general and this fandom in specific, and it delivered. More to the point however, it also showed us just how the ponies have changed since they wrote those lessons... as well as how they haven't. In particular Fluttershy's scene in the "walk around to see how my friends are taking it" thing Twilight does is spot on perfection. Everyone is all up in arms because Fluttershy isn't learning lessons the first time around, and not only does she get to draw herself up and show just how assertive she's really become (I am so proud of her) she also nails it when she asks the pony complaining "Can you honestly say you can learn something one time and completely change who you are?" Just, friggen yes.

Also, that song was... frankly, it surprised me. Apart from the Hearth's Warming Eve episode back in early season six, all the songs of the past two seasons have, frankly, sucked. They haven't been nearly as enjoyable, almost as though Danny boy wasn't giving it his all. Yes I'm aware that the lyrics are usually written by the episode authors, but still.

This song, however, was just... it spoke to me. It spoke to me pretty dang hard. And I don't just mean the incredibly shippy animation. It celebrates how we can all make mistakes and do stupid things, and so on. It spoke to me in particular because of my emotional problems, and how frequently I can, well... make a mess of things.

But yeah, it was a good episode. Also, have some shippy screenies:

[LeafFerret 3,382]

I guess this is the beginning of the end of the Mane 6, seems like their methods particularly Twilight of trying to solve things are becoming obsolete, Twilight needs to change her style because it is starting to get repetitive and judging from this season, they're not very effective either, I wished that she had stepped down after the first episode because she is running the show to the ground and is a shell of her old self. Not a very good leader either and Starlight is also wasting her talents as well with the writers not giving her adequate screen time compared to every other pony. She needs to stand up to Twilight or start leading herself, because she had done more meaningful things in one season than what Twilight has done in 3. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by AJFan89

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

Something about this just makes me feel....sick to my stomach.

Okay, so...as DWK would say, it's so meta I think I'm gonna have a psychotic break.  What have we become?  We made this.  We, every single one of us, created this.  And I...just don't like it.  And I really hate myself for being critical of the episode, because I'm being exactly what Hasbro was making fun of the entire time.....*SIGH*.  Should I stop reviewing?  Should I stop analyzing?  Maybe that's the moral, here.

I loved Slice of Life.  I was an avid defender of SoL.  But....but this?  Here's the problem for me: when I watch the show, I want to escape into a fantasy world that's cute and colorful with interesting, dynamic, relatable characters that manage to teach some good lessons along the way.  But now, there's no escape into another world, anymore.  The entire pony world has become us.  We're them.  The townsponies are the brony fandom.  For the duration of the episode, I'm just here.  Right here.  Like, completely LITERALLY, right here on the forums.  The episode was basically like just reading forum posts for 22 minutes.  I mean, it's like they just grabbed the forums in its entirety and smashed it onto the screen.  Now, I enjoy the forums.  Really, I do.  But I don't want to read the forums while I'm watching the show.  I generally like a little fan service, and a little meta fun-poking at the fandom, but this is so beyond meta that it's become some weird, deranged, Frankenstein-esque merging of the show and the internet into one freakish, ultra-meta, cronenberg abomination that will be crushed under its own weight, and it kind of makes my brain want to vomit.  Once again, f*ck me for over-analyzing, thus making myself a cancerous appendage jutting out of the cronenberg monster.

Really, when you compare this with Perfect Pear, it's just two different shows: one that takes place in the FIM universe, and another that takes place in a parallel universe where our universe has merged with theirs.  I do have to hand it to the writers, though, they have us down, pat.  I mean, they have our flippin' number, dude.

I absolutely cannot f*cking WAIT to see DWK's Totally Legit Recap of this episode.  Like....omg....he's soooo gonna totally flip his sh*t.  It's gonna be great! 

[CypherHoof 26,482]

10 hours ago, Barik the Luigineer said:

The episode was a fairly good satire of the brony community (being as ridiculously argumentative and hostile as it can be), though I feel like there was only one bad thing about it: EVERYONE THAT WASN'T THE MANE 7. Seriously, EVERYONE ELSE acted like (dare I say it) complete assholes for the majority of the episode. I almost wanted to stop watching it because I couldn't stand it, even though I knew it was supposed to make fun of this fandom, and it was pretty good at times. Though they (particularly the Rarity haters) ALL frustrate me.

I took that a different way (as does KH7672 if I am reading them correctly) - I haven't compared the background ponies in the crowd to the usual ones for Ponyville, but I took it as an influx from outside; ponies who aren't familiar with the mane 6, only knew them from news stories and campside tales, suddenly got the friendship journal to read (which of course ends with S4 but also therefore contains the key friendship lessons from S4 that represent the keys - except Twilight's) - and then decided they "knew" the mane 6 well enough to have rather vocal opinions about them, form clichés, and so forth.  I wasn't around for the S4 fandom, but find this totally believable. The jab at LP being "entitled to know" is a classic, but assume all that group represent vocal youtube critics from the time.

 

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

This is mostly a nitpick, but I was a little bothered by the weird face Rarity made when she was despairing that everyone was cancelling her orders. I know weird faces help make the show visually interesting, but I wish the animators and storyboard artists would tone it down sometimes. Kinda ruins the whole cute aesthetic of the show when they conjure up something really ugly. 

I think that's pretty common though - we see it from the other characters too, when they are stressed out - Flutters at the galloping gala, for example.

 

Quote

Also, it's a little amusing that Rarity received such hostility, as lately I've come under the impression that she's fairly popular in the fandom. Then again, she does have one of the more outwardly flawed personalities of the six. 

Rarity hasn't grown too much by S4. She is frequently shallow and appearance obsessed, mitigated only by her Element.  Like Flutters, she has clearly been allowed to grow a lot since then, but of course the Journal won't reflect that, so.. yeah. (another brohoof for KH7672 here)

 

9 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I found Starlight rather aggressive here, and I didn't like that very much. Haven't really found her actively unpleasant before, but there you have it. Her reassuring Twilight might have assuaged that if I liked her more in the past, but once again I wasn't very fond of her. 

I liked how they presented Starlight here. She is completely losing her cool at those two boorish ponies who upset Rarity and at the reviewer who thought he better deserved a spot in the book than Fluttershy, but she is doing so in defense of her friends, and is significantly more restrained than the natural defenders for those two (namely Spike and Discord) could well be expected to be in that situation (although saying that, and having a think about it, I think I would LOVE to see what would have happened had Discord popped in and found his Fluttershy cowering away from a bunch of aggressive, bullying ponies, but I suspect Celestia might have issues with it after the fact )

Again, this is something I see the fandom saying about Starlight, so its nice to see this feedback in action; she is being a supportive friend as a secondary character during a Mane 6 focussed episode, and I hope to see this more in future episodes.

Edited August 13, 2017 by CypherHoof
fixed annoying typo

[Hierok 11,831]

12 hours ago, Jeric said:

Yep. Now I'm curious if the Journal being released will be the reason she retires. 

That is actually really clever. I love when there are little forshadowings in episodes and this one had that a lot.  Also with the cutiemark camp and such was pretty well done.

[CypherHoof 26,482]

4 minutes ago, Hierok said:

That is actually really clever. I love when there are little forshadowings in episodes and this one had that a lot.  Also with the cutiemark camp and such was pretty well done.

Well, yeah, they seem to have packed this thing with as much meta as they could shoehorn in. I have gone though it another twice though, and still can't find any references to shadow ponies...

[Hierok 11,831]

4 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Well, yeah, they seem to have packed this thing with as much meta as they could shoehorn in. I have gone though it another twice though, and still can't find any references to shadow ponies...

Well I was thinking of that. They mentioned Grogar, who was trapped in the shadow world. What if the pony of shadows is really his servant? 

1 hour ago, Justin_Case001 said:

Something about this just makes me feel....sick to my stomach.

Okay, so...as DWK would say, it's so meta I think I'm gonna have a psychotic break.  What have we become?  We made this.  We, every single one of us, created this.  And I...just don't like it.  And I really hate myself for being critical of the episode, because I'm being exactly what Hasbro was making fun of the entire time.....*SIGH*.  Should I stop reviewing?  Should I stop analyzing?  Maybe that's the moral, here.

I loved Slice of Life.  I was an avid defender of SoL.  But....but this?  Here's the problem for me: when I watch the show, I want to escape into a fantasy world that's cute and colorful with interesting, dynamic, relatable characters that manage to teach some good lessons along the way.  But now, there's no escape into another world, anymore.  The entire pony world has become us.  We're them.  The townsponies are the brony fandom.  For the duration of the episode, I'm just here.  Right here.  Like, completely LITERALLY, right here on the forums.  The episode was basically like just reading forum posts for 22 minutes.  I mean, it's like they just grabbed the forums in its entirety and smashed it onto the screen.  Now, I enjoy the forums.  Really, I do.  But I don't want to read the forums while I'm watching the show.  I generally like a little fan service, and a little meta fun-poking at the fandom, but this is so beyond meta that it's become some weird, deranged, Frankenstein-esque merging of the show and the internet into one freakish, ultra-meta, cronenberg abomination that will be crushed under its own weight, and it kind of makes my brain want to vomit.  Once again, f*ck me for over-analyzing, thus making myself a cancerous appendage jutting out of the cronenberg monster.

Really, when you compare this with Perfect Pear, it's just two different shows: one that takes place in the FIM universe, and another that takes place in a parallel universe where our universe has merged with theirs.  I do have to hand it to the writers, though, they have us down, pat.  I mean, they have our flippin' number, dude.

I absolutely cannot f*cking WAIT to see DWK's Totally Legit Recap of this episode.  Like....omg....he's soooo gonna totally flip his sh*t.  It's gonna be great! 

Holy shit, that's gonna be so awesome! I can just imagine him say:

Quote

Spoiler

Got focking damn it, Larson. You are stealing my job now. You guys don't need me anymore. I quit!  

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Hierok

[Ganondox 899]

17 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Why is Starlight a Spike stand-in? That ain't gonna work. Meh, I'll just pretend it was Spike

 

 

 

... And yet there are differences that separate success from failure. Is one to disregard them due to differences in people, or is one to acknowledge them due to their own admission that people in general shall behave predictably? Should this lesson then be regarded by our venerable issue peddlers as a jab against Bronies at large by which point they shall reveal their own lack of empathy and self-reliance, or should this be taken as a neutral lesson that advocates for an individual's healthy measure of selfishness and disregard for public opinion? Unfortunately for peddles, such a lesson cuts both ways.

 

Spike doesn't work as a stand-in for Starlight because he's also in the journals, though his lack of appearance was odd. Even the CMC got addressed. 

17 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

This was a fairly fun episode and a clear as day jab at the fandom, which I think is important to realize how flawed the fandom can be too. Kinda ties in with the moral. The only things I didn't like were simply how petty they made the others by the end. They were despicable and I feel like it went a bit too far and then the ending happened with no real resolution for that problem.Time constraints suck, but still, felt jarring to not see the episode end with a full resolution.

The only other thing that bothered was how much it reminded me of some pretty bad times within the fandom, but that might have been the whole point.

So this was a good episode. Not the top of the season, but still fun at least and that's what counts.

I don't think they ended the episode with a non-ending due to time constraints, it was to make a point. The point is that they don't have a solution. They could see a song (eg. make an episode), but it's not going to make a difference, stoicism in face criticism and faith that they are making a positive difference is all they can hold on to. 

[Zel 56]

I loved this episode ! Sure it wasn't a very emotional episode with a lot of depht like some others but boy was it fun. It was just a fun ride with a fun core concept. The rythm of the episode was spot on, all of this story flow very naturally and with no break at all. It was just scene after scene of pure fun and randomness and the ride never seemed to wanna stop even for a minute. Plus the M6 were really good in this : they were in character before the all fiasco, they were in character during the incident and even at the end they were here one for another and true to themselves. And finally the song was a great one : catchy, with good lyrics... maybe a bit lazy on the animation part... My favorite part was the Pinkie verse because it sounded just so good... but I may be a bit biased on this part

Overall, I really enjoyed this episode. One of this season best for sure. The second part of season 7 seems to me to start off as being better than the first part I found a bit meh.

[Ganondox 899]

5 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

As you might expect, I really don't like this episode. It seems like the premise of the episode is just to set up a bunch of barely-veiled (if at all) fandom stereotypes and portray the ponies demonstrating them as irritating, ridiculous, and intractable. And no doubt there are people who think that that depiction is spot-on, and find the episode hilarious as a result. But I don't think that a lot of the fandom criticisms or stereotypes alluded to in the episode are inherently ridiculous, worthy only of being laughed at. And I also don't think that the analogies really work between the ponies' behavior in the episode and fandom behavior; in fact, it seems to me that those analogies make out members of the fandom to be much worse than many of them would seem to actually be. And that feeds into my final big issue with this episode, namely, that I fear that this episode will just fuel more chastising, ridiculing, and ganging up on others in the fandom who express criticism or minority opinions about the show.

As mentioned above, one issue I have with this episode is that I don't think the analogies really work between the behavior of the residents of Equestria and the (supposed) behavior of people in the fandom. There is a meaningful difference between people in real life criticizing or getting too wrapped up in a fictional cartoon and ponies harassing and being jerks toward the Mane Six themselves. To give a couple of examples, I don't buy that ponies ganging up on Fluttershy and demanding to know why she seems to have to learn the same lesson over and over is equivalent to fans of the show asking why Fluttershy, a fictional character on the show, seems to have to learn the same lesson over and over. I also don't buy that ponies complaining about the character development of the Mane Six in stories in the Friendship Journal, which describes actual events happening to actual ponies in the world of Equestria, is equivalent to fans of a fictional cartoon criticizing the development of characters in that cartoon. The problem I have is that this implied comparison between ponies' behavior in this episode and certain fandom behaviors is that the comparison makes members of the fandom seem significantly worse than I would think many of them actually are. I wouldn't assume that fans who complain about characters seeming to relearn the same lessons or who complain about character development would harass or be jerks toward other people in real life going through similar lessons or development. I would guess that many, if not most, such people are aware that they're criticizing characters in or episodes of a fictional cartoon, and that they would be more tactful or considerate in talking about the behavior of actual people, particularly to those people's faces.

Another issue I have with this episode is that it alludes to a bunch of stereotypes of fandom behavior, but doesn't seem to have anything clever or insightful to say about them. Does the episode give any particularly useful advice on how to deal with or respond to the negative criticisms or behaviors to which it's alluding? Nothing the Mane Six or Starlight do really alleviates the problems in the episode, and the episode deliberately ends with the seemingly intractable mob still outside, undealt with. Does the episode ever model what the happy medium "correct" behavior of fans should be? Essentially everyone other than Starlight, the Mane Six, and the two kids at the end are made out to be insufferable jerks. It seems that there's little else to the episode, after the set-up of making and distributing the copies of the Friendship Journal, other than "Look at these fandom complaints and stereotypes! Aren't they irritating and ridiculous? Point and laugh!", but I just don't agree with that premise, nor do I find it entertaining.

The final big issue is that, even as I was watching the episode, I feared that the episode would be fuel for some people who seem to believe that there are way too many whiners, haters, nitpickers, and overanalyzers in the fandom, and who often make posts (whether directed at specific individuals or not) chastising and condemning that group. I imagine such people might think that this episode vindicates their feelings and their behavior - "even the show's creators think that that group are ridiculous troublemakers and need to stop!". What concerns me is that it seems like many of those people, in their zeal against perceived whiners/haters/nitpickers/overanalyzers, don't appear to see much, if any, value in allowing and encouraging a diversity of opinions. In fact, I've seen commenters openly wish for or directly tell people who don't like certain characters or the direction of the show to shut up or get out. I've even seen a few commenters say that they think people who are too "negative" about the show should be punished or banned. And there are still others who, even if they don't make these arguments themselves, still brohoof or upvote or sympathize with them.

I think I've often had minority opinions, about this show and on other topics, and I've had plenty of criticism and pot shots directed at me over the years, so I might be more inclined to observe this and see it as an issue. But I would think that one of the main reasons to have forums like these is to facilitate sharing and discussion among people with differing views on common subjects, including, in this case, the show itself. I wouldn't see much point in forums where essentially everyone holds the same basic opinions about the show and about its characters, episodes, etc., and where people with unpopular opinions are made to censor themselves or driven out.

One common response I've seen to this view is to protest that there have been people who take it too far by threatening or directly harassing the show's creators, other forum members, etc. And I would reply that those behaviors are almost certainly against site policy, in which case people can just report posts like that to the moderators and move on. I don't think the existence of such relatively rare cases justifies a general attitude against people posting criticism, most of whom don't engage in behaviors like that.

Another common response I've seen is that criticism is well and good in the abstract, but there are (supposedly) some people whose posts don't contribute anything or are nothing but tiresome. But it seems to me that judging exactly which posts or posters have insufficient "value", and therefore should be targeted for ganging up on with ridicule or arguments to stop posting, is an inherently slippery and subjective enterprise. When the forums have members and visitors with a variety of opinions, then posts that some people might consider "low value" or tiresome might be considered interesting or entertaining or relatable by other people. I would rather the forums cultivate an atmosphere of civil engagement with dissenting opinions or otherwise essentially leaving them be, even if it means scrolling past or ignoring some posts or posters, which doesn't seem too burdensome a thing to do.

Now for a few other miscellaneous observations:

Did Toola Roola and Coconut Cream, two fairly young kids, buy all this ice cream they're throwing at each other? Or are they taking the store's, or other customers', ice cream to have their food fight?

How did the Friendship Journal degrade so much that the pages are turning to powder and falling out? Wasn't it in perfectly good shape when everyone was writing in it, probably a few years ago at most?

Furthermore, it seems rather strange that Rarity doesn't seem to recognize the Friendship Journal at all. Again, wasn't it not that long ago that they were writing in it themselves?

When Starlight makes copies of the Friendship Journal, does she also copy all of the potential problems of the original? Rainbow says that Fluttershy's lessons are written so small that they can barely be read, Rainbow is dumbfounded by Rarity's calligraphy, and Rainbow's lessons themselves were written "aggressively". Do those issues all carry over to the copies sold or given out to everyone else?

Finally, where is the material for making all of these copies coming from? Is Starlight creating matter out of thin air, or is she maybe teleporting stocks of paper, ink, etc. from somewhere else? If the latter, are those stocks of materials being paid for?

The two at the end of the episode is the whole point. All the people who were positively effected weren't gathering outside in the mob, so we have no idea how many of them they are, we just now that they exist. I think the moral of the episode is all the negative ponies *simply don't matter*, and that's why they are never actually resolved. So it's not actually saying the fandom is bad, it's saying that even if it appears to be bad because that is the face is made, it's the good that matters. 

I wondered the same thing about the ice cream. 

The friendship journal survived being in a burning library, and having an apple rot in it, those can work wonders on a book.

Rarity probably didn't' recognize it due to the damage. 

I think she could control how the book was copied because she had read the whole thing ahead of time. 

With the last point, some questions are best left unanswered.

[CypherHoof 26,482]

1 minute ago, Ganondox said:

I think she could control how the book was copied because she had read the whole thing ahead of time.

I loved the way Flutters' friendship lesson tried to be small, inconspicuous, and hid in a corner

[Ganondox 899]

Just now, CypherHoof said:

I loved the way Flutters' friendship lesson tried to be small, inconspicuous, and hid in a corner

Oh, that's what she meant! I know she was lying when she said it was the leave room for the others, but what she was actually doing didn't cross my mind while actually watching the episode, too busy watching ponies. 

[CypherHoof 26,482]

5 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Oh, that's what she meant! I know she was lying when she said it was the leave room for the others, but what she was actually doing didn't cross my mind while actually watching the episode, too busy watching ponies. 

The entries in the original seem to reflect the pony who they are for/by. Rarities are so embellished with stylistic writing they are near unreadable; pinkie's appears to have its very own party cannon, and RD/AJ's reflect their authors too. I would assume Twilight's are laid out in a numbered list of steps, and have their own index.

Those peculiarities don't seem to have been copied to the clone volumes though - which may be a failing in Starlight's spell (in fact, this entire episode could be an entry in that particular list of things going horribly wrong after Starlight used magic, although mass production was Twilight's idea in this case)

[Connie 320]

I'm glad Daisy (the green haired pony) got to speak again. She has been my favourite background pony since season 1. I'm so happy she isn't forgotten. Oh, she also destroyed Rarity, and we got to see a funny meltdown, bless up. <3

[Guest]

It's been a while since I've watched new episodes but people's comments about this episode really made me want to watch it and I wasn't disappointed at all! This was an amazing episode, I find it hilarious when the show makes fun of the fandom. It was especially entertaining since I really don't understand all the over-analyzing and constant whining about the episodes not being good enough. I spontaneously look forward to seeing more episodes like this.

But Spike, where?  Maybe it was just good for him not to be present while things got chaotic.

[Concerned Bystander 2,902]

6 hours ago, bluseymoe said:

I liked the part with Fluttershy telling off the ponies for saying she never learns anything. That same thing could be said about Rainbow Dash: Character growth doesn't happen overnight. It takes a lot of work to change. Also Character Development /=/ Stop Being Yourself! That's a terrible lesson. RD and Fluttershy should never stop being who they are.

Definitely this, but not this alone.  You also have to take into account the fact that the whole point of the mane six originally was to show the primary target audience of young girls that there is lots of different ways to be you, and that none of them are wrong.

With the cartoon now in its seventh year they have to accommodate not only existing fans that are in it for the long haul but also new fans of young girls (and boys) that are just growing into the franchise, and they have to able to present the original character archetypes to appeal to the new fans without alienating the older fans by constantly rolling back the characters development.  It's a very difficult thing to accomplish well, and although they may have missed the mark on occasion I think they have done reasonably well on the whole.

That is why some of the characters (most notably Fluttershy) have to learn the same lessons more than once.  Of course the character that they cannot really do that with to the same extent is Twilight (because princess wings), and this is why Starlight was introduced as her replacement in the 'student learning about friendship' archetype.

I think this episode did a pretty good job, it was clearly a letter to the fandom to say 'look, there's a reason why we have to do this' and it was handled with the sort of self-referential meta humour that the cartoon at its best does very well.

This episode started off a little strangely to me, but once I twigged what they were doing I enjoyed it all the more, and there were moments with the townsponies confronting the mane six and challenging the 'characters' in the book in comparison to their reality that had me laughing out loud.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Concerned Bystander

[CypherHoof 26,482]

24 minutes ago, Connie said:

I'm glad Daisy (the green haired pony) got to speak again. She has been my favourite background pony since season 1. I'm so happy she isn't forgotten. Oh, she also destroyed Rarity, and we got to see a funny meltdown, bless up. <3

But she was pretty mean. Ok, a fair few people likely to complain about it were also likely to have been saying the same things back in S4, but still - if she is a regular townspony in ponyville, she should know Rarity better than that.

 

Just now, Jaspers said:

It's been a while since I've watched new episodes but people's comments about this episode really made me want to watch it and I wasn't disappointed at all! This was an amazing episode, I find it hilarious when the show makes fun of the fandom. It was especially entertaining since I really don't understand all the over-analyzing and constant whining about the episodes not being good enough. I spontaneously look forward to seeing more episodes like this.

But Spike, where?  Maybe it was just good for him not to be present while things got chaotic.

And Y NO DISCORD? after all, Chaos is sorta his thing....

[Hierok 11,831]

Just now, CypherHoof said:

And Y NO DISCORD? after all, Chaos is sorta his thing....

I really hoped he made a cameo, where he sent all those ponies tontartarus.

[Hierok 11,831]

I think this quit different. I believe you are talking about an individual and that can be handled.  This were just to much ponies.

[CastletonSnob 3,074]

I think Spike would have killed those ponies who insulted Rarity.

[CypherHoof 26,482]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

I think Spike would have killed those ponies who insulted Rarity.

I doubt he would have gone that far, but certainly whatever Starlight did would pale in comparison. At a guess burnt off their manes leaving them bald...

Discord now, seeing a scared and cowering Flutters... that would NOT have ended well for them.

[Hierok 11,831]

4 minutes ago, VG_Addict said:

I think Spike would have killed those ponies who insulted Rarity.

I hoped Starlight did the same.