Discord: Was he ever evil?

[Just-An-Observer 9]

You know, I've been thinking about Discord a lot lately and I've come to a impasse. Can we say Discord was ever really evil? The draconequus is the embodiment of chaos, yes, but chaos is never inherently evil. Chaos is Chaos and that's all there is to it. And for a creature that has reality-warping powers, Discord has only ever seemed to use them at their tamest. Chocolate milk-raining pink clouds, changing the landscape to various patterns and bunnies stampeding around with freakishly long legs is more than a little disconcerting, it wasn't like it was hurting anypony else! Sure, the chocolate rain would prove devastating to local fauna and crops if it persisted for a long period of time, but that's about it for damage. Everything Discord does, he does as a prank; he's a trickster and enjoys pulling little stunts like the ones mentioned beforehand to get a good laugh. Obviously, his "pranks" are a little over the line, but that's still all they really were! This is just speculation on my part (A term you'll see a lot here), but I believe his former pranks were so out of control because one, he'd never been taught to use his powers in moderation and two, he either didn't have a clue about morality or just a very skewed perspective on it.

And I know what some of you are thinking: "If Discord wasn't evil, he wouldn't have done what he did to the Mane Six!" Well, look at it from his perspective; you've just managed to break out of the living death you'd been trapped in for the past one-thousand years and the very wielders of the weapons that could put you back into it show up, fully intending to do just that. You'd do anything to keep yourself from reliving that fate by any means necessary just like him! And again, he didn't do the most heinous and productive thing he could've to prevent the Elements from ever encasing him in stone again by killing the six of them. He just sent them on a wild goose chase through a maze and slowly turned them into the opposite of their respective element. That was it.

And we don't know the full story of Discord. Yes, Celestia said that "ponies were miserable under Discord's rule", but can we really say she's a credible source? It's like they say "History is written by the winners". How unbiased can we actually say her recollection of what happened really is? All we ever saw of the original confrontation between Discord and the two sisters was them encasing him in stone, so there is very little we can get from that. And a few people are probably going to say: "But why else would Celestia and Luna lock Discord away if he weren't evil?" Simple. He's not "harmonious".

We've all seen the evidence: anything that doesn't fit into the ponies little "status quo" of their "harmony" is either instantly rejected or treated with extreme trepidation or hostility. Everything has to be under their control or they see it as "unnatural" or "evil", hence their feelings towards the Everfree Forest controlling itself without their help. So to have a creature like Discord running around, turning their entire world on its head? Oh, they needed him removed immediately. And they've always used Deus Ex Machinima means of removing their problems; eradicating the Windigo race, sealing the Umbrum away to die a slow, agonizing death, honestly, Discord should be happy that all he got was being turned into stone! It's an all too real possibility that Discord was only ever "evil" because that's just how ponies perceive all things different and "unnatural" to them......

[Denim&Venöm 19,198]

Discord spread his chaos without concern for others. He gained fulfillment by ignoring how others would be impacted.  And there were other ways he could've gotten rid of the elements. He could already move them, so why not hide them in an unreachable place? Instead, he chose to torment the main six. Discord is a sadist and a sociopath. He only cares for his own whims, is indifferent to the suffering of others at best, and gains joy in their torment at worst. He only stops when such actions come back to bite him, like after forming a bond with Fluttershy. 

So yes, Discord was evil. And evil or not, when something comes by that is a threat to your way of life, you will do everything in your power to remove it, even if that means turning it to stone for 1000 years. History isn't written by the victors as much as by the survivors. 

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

42 minutes ago, Denim&Venom said:

Discord spread his chaos without concern for others. He gained fulfillment by ignoring how others would be impacted.  And there were other ways he could've gotten rid of the elements. He could already move them, so why not hide them in an unreachable place? Instead, he chose to torment the main six. Discord is a sadist and a sociopath. He only cares for his own whims, is indifferent to the suffering of others at best, and gains joy in their torment at worst. He only stops when such actions come back to bite him, like after forming a bond with Fluttershy. 

So yes, Discord was evil. And evil or not, when something comes by that is a threat to your way of life, you will do everything in your power to remove it, even if that means turning it to stone for 1000 years. History isn't written by the victors as much as by the survivors. 

true, true

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Evil is a perception.

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

1 minute ago, They call me Loyalty said:

Evil is a perception.

YOUR OC WAS TURNED INTO A (more) SELFCENTERED B:TCH!

HOW YOU NOT ON THE "DEATH TO DISCORD" TEAM?

[Will Guide 21,362]

In a single word to avoid flame wars: Yes.

Of course that's now all in the past and he's now a much more selfless being.

Edited January 7, 2018 by WiiGuy2014

[Singe 2,111]

If Discord was not evil, then by Dungeons and Dragons alignment he would be chaotic neutral.

[JH24 385]

Evil is something that can be very clear or very subtle. I would say Discord was evil (or chaotic neutral at best) because he never cared for the wellbeing or happiness of the ponies under his rule. All he cared about was spreading chaos around the entire world because it's in his nature, because that's what a Spirit of Chaos does. The only reason he's keeping his nature/instincts in check is because he now has friends that mean more to him than spreading chaos itself.

He may not have been evil in character, but he was definitely seen like that by everyone else.

But at the same time, Celestia knew that Discord was not irredeemable. He's not on the same level like Tirek or Sombra for example. She wanted to break the cycle by trusting in Fluttershy to befriend him. Otherwise he would break free again in another thousand years, and history would repeat itself. And if one of the next generations would lose the fight against Discord the world would be at the mercy of an unreformed Spirit of Chaos.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by JH24

[Hierok 11,832]

Yes, he was evil because he didn't have any concern for others, but he never ment to really hurt anyone. He only wanted to do what he wanted and there he goes wrong. 

[CypherHoof 26,483]

16 minutes ago, Hieroklicious said:

Yes, he was evil because he didn't have any concern for others, but he never ment to really hurt anyone. He only wanted to do what he wanted and there he goes wrong. 

No, he is (and was) chaotic, but not evil - self centred in much the same way Trixie is, but with almost unlimited power.

He STILL is, of course, but amongst the interests he wants to satisfy are now his desire for friendship, and specifically, for Fluttershy's friendship, so what he actually does is now more tempered by running it though a "would this make Fluttershy unhappy?" filter first.

Edited January 7, 2018 by CypherHoof

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

4 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

No, he is (and was) chaotic, but not evil - self centred in much the same way Trixie is, but with almost unlimited power.

He STILL is, of course, but amongst the interests he wants to satisfy are now his desire for friendship, and specifically, for Fluttershy's friendship, so what he actually does is now more tempered by running it though a "would this make Fluttershy unhappy?" filter first.

suuuure "Friendship". 

more like Fluttershy is Discord's marefriend!

[CypherHoof 26,483]

Just now, Sherbertlicious Music-Guardlicious said:

suuuure "Friendship". 

more like Fluttershy is Discord's marefriend!

Well, it COULD be a euphemism. But whatever it is, Discord is very reluctant indeed to risk losing it

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

5 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Well, it COULD be a euphemism. But whatever it is, Discord is very reluctant indeed to risk losing it

true, I think that he now couldn't physically LIVE without her!

[Hierok 11,832]

51 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

No, he is (and was) chaotic, but not evil - self centred in much the same way Trixie is, but with almost unlimited power.

He STILL is, of course, but amongst the interests he wants to satisfy are now his desire for friendship, and specifically, for Fluttershy's friendship, so what he actually does is now more tempered by running it though a "would this make Fluttershy unhappy?" filter first.

And now he also starts to care for Big Mac and Spike, hopefully, after Dungeons and Discords, and hopefully also for the rest of the mane 6. 

Self centred is a form of evil, in my opinion. Especially in a world which is created with friendship and selfless deeds. 

[ShadOBabe 19,006]

Life cannot exist under unending chaos. Never ceasing confusion, panic, and disorientation is stressful and actually harmful to mental and emotional health. Obviously not to Discord, he feeds on it, but that’s what makes it bad. Discord steamrolled over the basic needs of EVERYONE just so he could have fun.

Now that still begs the question: Was he evil? To me, evil is when someone willingly and knowingly hurts others. I’m not quite sure Discord was at that point when he originally took over Equestria. When he busted out, sure, his revenge was exceptionally wicked, but let’s focus on before.

Discord has the social understandings of a small child. An small child with world bending powers, immortality, and NO understanding of the needs of others. Basic empathy is a revelation to him. But that’s understandable. You can’t understand others if you literally never interact with them. And in his mind, if he’s having fun, then everybody should be having fun, right? He’s the most important after all. So anyone trying to get him to stop is OBVIOUSLY just a partypooper.

Before the Mane 6, and especially Fluttershy, he literally had no social experience with mortals outside of gleefully watching as they scurry about in the madness he created. I don’t think he quite understood that while an immortal chaos spirit has no need for harmony, it is an absolute necessity for mortals. Sure a little chaos is necessary as well, but again, Discord has the emotional maturity of a child. And what do children do when they find something they like, and no one sets limits for them? They take as much of it as they possibly can. If a moderate amount of chaos is fine, the obviously ALL THE CHAOS IS EVEN BETTER, RIGHT??

But unlike a normal child, you couldn’t punish Discord. He could do whatever he wanted with no fear of losing anything. He got “punished” when he got turned to stone, but since he didn’t think he was doing anything wrong, it just made him angry. You could stall Discord, but you couldn’t really take anything from him. That is until he made friends with some of those mortals he used to just steamroll over. Suddenly, it mattered if they got upset and didn’t want to interact with him. Discord learned about real consequences.

So, was Discord evil when he had control over Equestria? I’d say no. He was extremely selfish and ignorant, like a child, but not EVIL.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

41 minutes ago, Hieroklicious said:

And now he also starts to care for Big Mac and Spike, hopefully, after Dungeons and Discords, and hopefully also for the rest of the mane 6. 

Self centred is a form of evil, in my opinion. Especially in a world which is created with friendship and selfless deeds. 

No, in alignment terms, it is a different axis - not lawful or chaotic, not celestial or evil, but selfish or selfless...

[ShadOBabe 19,006]

1 hour ago, Sherbertlicious Music-Guardlicious said:

suuuure "Friendship". 

more like Fluttershy is Discord's marefriend!

I can’t ship those two. I totally get why others do, but even if I didn’t already like Dislestia, I see Fluttershy as basically his big sister, and sometimes even his mother figure. I can’t romantically ship something where one side of the relationship gives so much nurturing to, and has so much emotional authority over, the other. I don’t think Fluttershy’s cooing of, “Isn’t that right my widdle patient?” is particularly romantic, because it infantilizes Discord. He is straight up her charge.

I absolutely think they love each other VERY MUCH, but in the Philia/Storge way, no the Eros way.

Discord gets super pissed when someone does something bad to Fluttershy the some way I get super pissed when someone does something bad to MY family.

Edited January 7, 2018 by ShadOBabe

[CypherHoof 26,483]

Just now, ShadOBabe said:

I can’t ship those two. I don’t mind if others do, but even if I didn’t already like Dislestia, I see Fluttershy as basically his big sister, and sometimes even his mother figure. I can’t romantically ship something where one side of the relationship has so much nurturing for and emotional authority over the other. I don’t think Fluttershy’s cooing of, “Isn’t that right my widdle patient?” is particularly romantic, because it infantilizes Discord. He is straight up her charge.

I absolutely think they love each other VERY MUCH, but in the Philia/Storge way, no the Eros way.

I think a simpler way to look at it is that Discord is an immortal manifestation of chaos; he has no need to reproduce (other than by instantating new copies of himself, which he does fairly frequently) so is not going to have any urges in that direction without prompting. 

That said, if Fluttershy wanted a stallion, I can totally imagine Discord accomodating that so as not to have to share any of Flutters' love...

[The Kaeya Simp 13,989]

16 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

I think a simpler way to look at it is that Discord is an immortal manifestation of chaos; he has no need to reproduce (other than by instantating new copies of himself, which he does fairly frequently) so is not going to have any urges in that direction without prompting. 

That said, if Fluttershy wanted a stallion, I can totally imagine Discord accomodating that so as not to have to share any of Flutters' love...

Remember he turned into a stallion in the shows cannon because he is 

Just imagine that face but Discord watching Fluttershy

Edited January 7, 2018 by Sherbertlicious Music-Guardlicious

[ShadOBabe 19,006]

Just now, CypherHoof said:

I think a simpler way to look at it is that Discord is an immortal manifestation of chaos; he has no need to reproduce (other than by instantating new copies of himself, which he does fairly frequently) so is not going to have any urges in that direction without prompting. 

That said, if Fluttershy wanted a stallion, I can totally imagine Discord accomodating that so as not to have to share any of Flutters' love...

Eh, I don’t like simplifying love down to just chemical urges.

And again, I couldn’t do that my mind. Not in the way you’re thinking. I could totally see Discord getting jealous of a coltfriend for Fluttershy and trying to hog her attention, but in the way a kid might get jealous of their single mom’s new boyfriend.

[Karnak 187]

I think he just thought chaos and anarchy was the best option. John did say he never saw himself as a bad guy.

[EpicEnergy 23,223]

I think he was, considering that he knowingly made ponies miserable.

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

What is "evil" if not another way of looking at things. Besides, chaos is random. So, of course these eerily happy, song-loving control freaks would see Discord as "evil". But these miniature equines are so brainwashed into their little "friendship" paradigm, that they cannot possibly see any other way than their own. Discord is the only victim here. But what was he supposed to do? Imagine possibly being the only creature of your kind. Imagine the intense and maddening loneliness drowning you ever deeper into despair. That is even more terrifying than any kind of evil.