Starlight doesn't deserve the hate

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Good ol Glimglam! Sure she's not perfect, but is anyone? However, there are alota people that don't like her, and think she shoulda never came on the show, but her reasons for stickin' around far surpass the reasons Discord's around nowadays! No offense to him. Does Glimglam really deserve the hate? 

 

I know, her story is flawed, she had a rushed redemption - yeah, these things happen in this show. It's not Starlight's fault for that! I mean all she really needed was someone to believe in her, and that's what Twilight did! Then she got accepted by the Remane 5 and Spike! Of course she still had a very hard time fitting in - something many of us have problems with. She was also abandoned by her first friend! Yunno how harsh that is? Some people can take it well, but others really can't!

 

I can feel so much sympathy for Starlight and can really relate to her! She's always willing to give someone a second chance and always show respect to those who even might not deserve it! She's the only one who gave Trixie a fair chance, Chrysalis a second chance, and she's one of Spike's only friends that NEVER abused him or taken advantage of him (except for the reliving hero thing from the season 6 premiere, but that was only to stall her meeting with Sunburst, and Spike was having a good time)! Even though the latter did help play a big role in having me really like her, that's not the main reason! 

 

She's not stealing the show from anyone! Yeah she gets shoehorned in some episodes, but was a thing in the past! Nowadays she's being used much less! So happy now? Please try to give her another chance if you don't like her, she'd do the same for you!

[Will Guide 21,325]

I know a friend of mine who would agree with you.

[OdellaLark 185]

Honestly. You’re right. It took a little while for her to grow on me though tbh. 

[Will Guide 21,325]

Some people claim her backstory in S5 Finale contradicts her motives against cutie marks in her introduction in S5 Premiere. When you really think about it and what age she was when she lost Sunburst, it makes sense. She was still a young filly who lost her only friend because he simply got his Cutie Mark before her and left for a far away school. In her mind, she came to hate Cutie Marks and that's why she tried to steal other ponies' Marks away and make them feel no more superior than anyone else. It was just a misguided belief that Cutie Marks lead to pain and heartache as she said in S5 Premiere and S5 Finale shows exactly why she once believed that.

[JetPistol 32]

56 minutes ago, FlareGun45 said:

However, there are alota people that don't like her, and think she shoulda never came on the show

Please point me in the direction of these people, OP.

 

[Jedishy 3,542]

I think my problem is that she never really got punished for what she did. And what she did is so bad that I think she should have been a statue or on the moon for a while. Her and Trixie both had nothing happen to them outside of what they did to themselves. They did not get formally punished Luna who basically just quit her job,broke her own castle and got into an Alicorn bar brawl with her sister got 1000 years of banishment to solitary. Those two enslave towns and abuse people and nothing. Just nothing. That is why I have a hard time with their characters. 

[KH7672 1,604]

@FlareGun45 would you mind if I inquire why you are so interested in Starlight all of a sudden with this being your second thread on the subject? Just curious...

As for the title itself, as a fan of her myself I would be inclined to say, maybe not "Starlight doesn't deserve the hate" she's a fictional character, she doesn't feel it and everyone's inclined to feel how they want about her, but maybe "Any dislike toward Starlight doesn't deserve to be forced on her fans" She has legitimate fans for a reason, (you even showed why yourself in your initial post) and if they can back up their reasoning, or have the confidence to stand by their opinion, there's no reason to call them out for it. They're enjoying a character like everyone else, so keep that ire focused on the character not those that like her, because it seems people will take that character hatred on them personally, and some of those that hate her do which is not deserved.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Just now, KH7672 said:

@FlareGun45 would you mind if I inquire why you are so interested in Starlight all of a sudden with this being your second thread on the subject? Just curious...

As for the title itself, as a fan of her myself I would be inclined to say, maybe not "Starlight doesn't deserve the hate" she's a fictional character, she doesn't feel it and everyone's inclined to feel how they want about her, but maybe "Any dislike toward Starlight doesn't deserve to be forced on her fans" She has legitimate fans for a reason, (you even showed why yourself in your initial post) and if they can back up their reasoning, or have the confidence to stand by their opinion, there's no reason to call them out for it. They're enjoying a character like everyone else, so keep that ire focused on the character not those that like her, because it seems people will take that character hatred on them personally, and some of those that hate her do which is not deserved.

Do I have to be interested in JUST Spike?  I love alot the characters in the show! Just cause he's my favorite doesn't mean he's all I'm gonna talk about, or all who I'm gonna defend!

There was an Equestria Daily post talking about which character do people want deleted, alota people said Starlight

[Tao 6,706]

Personally, I came to like Starlight when she first popped up as the main bad mare back in the day.   She was a very different type of villain and she over the top reactions just killed it for me.    I mean,  she made a freak cult!  Also how close did she come to really take down Twilight and the Mane six in coming up with a different angle to fight them?   Now yes her road to being good was a little rushed,  yet it let us see her make mistakes and learn from them.   Which is a good thing I think for a lot of us to learn as people and fans. 

[Goat-kun 2,496]

>Be me

>Have friendship problems

>Watch Starlight episodes

>Feels good man

>Still have friendship problems but now I like Starlight

>Anon from second class calls me names. He doesn't like starlight.

>Anon is a hater. I want to write how wrong he is but my keyboard is covered with spaghetti.

>Feels bad man

[They call me Loyalty 1,941]

I wouldn't want to play arbiter and say something like "Starlight doesn't deserve the hate" Suggesting others are wrong would be ignorant on my part.

Personally, I like Starlight because of her individuality.

[Guest]

The fact that everyone's issue with Starlight is "she wasn't punished enough" shows we have a lot of people who are very vindictive and spiteful and not so forgiving.

[Jedishy 3,542]

8 hours ago, Bas said:

I am not sure if punishment is necessary (maybe even IRL)

So you can enslave and torture people and you think that that does not deserve punishment. No need to face any consequences for it? That is ridiculous. 

 

7 hours ago, Key Sharkz said:

The fact that everyone's issue with Starlight is "she wasn't punished enough" shows we have a lot of people who are very vindictive and spiteful and not so forgiving.

No they were not punished AT ALL. Im sorry but if someone enslaved your family and brainwashed those that refused to comply I am pretty sure you would demand they face justice. 

[BladeShield 36]

@FlareGun45 OMG yes!

I know people who hate her and even understand some motives, like sudden redemption. But she has a lot of charisma and seems to be the closest to us: someone who made mistakes and who does not seek to hide them, but to repair them and teach others about the importance of a second chance.

[KH7672 1,604]

9 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

So you can enslave and torture people and you think that that does not deserve punishment. No need to face any consequences for it? That is ridiculous. 

 

No they were not punished AT ALL. Im sorry but if someone enslaved your family and brainwashed those that refused to comply I am pretty sure you would demand they face justice. 

Torture, yes but enslave? I'm sorry who was enslaved? Starlight did not waltz into a random established village and declare herself leader of it. The premiere establishes she created that village; she's their founder, and she found random ponies, like Double Diamond skiing in the mountains, and indoctrinated them into her philosophy. Is it possible she took them away from loving homes, maybe, except for two things. After running her out they didn't leave, and again she only got those who found her village (or found out too much about it), she didn't go out to conquer and enslave, she let them come to her.

Also just the term enslave is not accurate. None of the villagers are kept in a state of poverty or lower status because status doesn't exist in the village. Are you saying they are all slaves to Starlight? How, they don't serve her, they don't have any lesser living than she does, besides a lack of powerful magic but is she using that to her advantage. Does she eat better, wear better things, sleep better? Well, honestly we don't know we weren't shown for either case. Regardless, she seemed to live no different than others. 

Sombra enslaved ponies, Nightmare Moon enslaved ponies (well more servitude than slavery) and the Storm King enslaved ponies and tortured as well. There was no choice in their fate, or even the illusion of choice like Starlight's village offered. It was a cult, plain and simple, no enslavement, everyponies equal, and those that stray are tortured into staying. Enslavement offers no choice in leaving because of conditions, but her cult always has the option to leave once indoctrinated but instead makes the cultist feel there's nothing better than staying because they believed they were happy. It's the lie of the philosophy they chose to believe in that they are angry at. Get rid of the source of the philosophy or better yet expose it and Starlight for the truth and determine neither will cause harm again and what justice is there left?

[Jedishy 3,542]

15 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

I'm sorry who was enslaved?

First I was talking about both Starlight and Trixie in that post as they were both mentioned in the post I was responding to. And Trixie most certainly enslaved all of Ponyville  but lets move to Starlight

Umm Im not sure you get how brainwashing works. You see when anytime someone does not live exactly how you want them to or tries to leave you put them in a room blasting propaganda until they break that is enslaving them

Slavery does not need to be poverty, ( though with the rough weave cloaks and spartan existence and cruddy food you could argue they are poor compared to anywhere else in Equestria and this was by her design )in fact, many slaves of high-class individuals in history had a good bit of wealth. Slavery simply requires you to be unable to leave or exert your own will. Oh, you claim they could leave hmm what happened to the Mane six or those that tired to help them leave? Where did they end up again? The brainwashing shack which by the by was not new which is why every pony in that village was afraid of it. So they either were forced into it if they tried to leave or saw new captures forced into it. IE slavery via brainwashing 

Finally, Nightmare Moon never enslaved anyone. She wanted to rule but never got the chance. So maybe she intended to but we cant really make that claim as she never really did a single thing to anyone outside of her sister. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jedishy said:

No they were not punished AT ALL. Im sorry but if someone enslaved your family and brainwashed those that refused to comply I am pretty sure you would demand they face justice. 

Not if after that they have done nothing but try to do good things and help people. I would be thankful that they are using their skills for good.

Rehabilitation is better than punishment. That's part of the problem with the world, people are more interested in "getting even" than they are with doing good.

[Jedishy 3,542]

1 minute ago, Key Sharkz said:

Not if after that they have done nothing but try to do good things and help people. I would be thankful that they are using their skills for good.

Rehabilitation is better than punishment. That's part of the problem with the world, people are more interested in "getting even" than they are with doing good.

Having never experienced that I doubt you know your true reaction but I applaud the reaction you would hope for. However the fact is that when you hurt someone you must answer for it. You must make them whole again. Some things you cant make whole so the only way to balance things is to punish your actions. We can debate all day but I do not think oh I did nice things for a few years and donated to charity means a rapist or kidnapper should just go on their merry way no skin off their nose. Because why should any criminal ever care about the law if all they need to do is a few good deed and they can just keep balancing the cime scale out and be good to keep it up. Also I love your new avatar pic 

[KH7672 1,604]

7 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Slavery does not need to be poverty, in fact, many slaves of high-class individuals in history had a good bit of wealth. Slavery simply requires you to be unable to leave or exert your own will. Oh you claim they could leave hmm what happened to the Mane six or those that tired to help them leave? Where did they end up again? 

No one tried to help them leave. They told them about the Cutie Mark vault, essentially the one thing only learned about once you get into the cult. They told the Mane Six about it not because they wanted to leave, but they just wanted their cutie marks back WHILE staying in the village (i.e. Sugar Belle wanted to bake better food for the visiters).

What they wanted was to break the rule of the philosophy they are apart of. You can't have your cutie mark and stay a part of the village. They want their cutie mark, they leave the village. That's the whole point of her manipulation. It becomes a selfish decision to want your cutie mark because no one else was getting theirs, and you would be going against the community which is all they have, hence the not leaving when they run Starlight out. It's the community aspect that sets the dealings apart from staight up slavery.

Slaves are kept in place (regardless of wealth which was my mistake) because their master doesn't allow it. There is someone above them, doing the brainwashing, controlling their free will. A cultist is kept in place because the feeling of community won't let them leave. They feel safe with the community, and they all live by the same standards. Yes cults cut ties with the outside world, yes cults punish those that don't follow the rules, that's part of the rules. The Mane 6 didn't just refuse to comply, they threatened the existence of her cult and which that she has to take action.

*Also the Nightmare Moon thing was referring to the alternate future version of her.

[Guest]

Just now, Jedishy said:

Having never experienced that I doubt you know your true reaction

How can you be so certain that it would be the opposite then? If I saw a person was doing good after and learned from their past, I would be happy.

Just now, Jedishy said:

However the fact is that when you hurt someone you must answer for it. You must make them whole again.

 

The town she enslaved is free now and she's spent her time doing good and even saved Equestria. Does that count for nothing unless you spend time in prison prior to doing good things? That problem with our society as a whole is we care too much about the method and not enough about the end result. Who cares how it was achieved if the end result is her being good?

4 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

We can debate all day but I do not think oh I did nice things for a few years and donated to charity means a rapist or kidnapper should just go on their merry way no skin off their nose.

That's a HUGE jump there. Are you seriously comparing Starlight to rapists and kidnappers?

4 minutes ago, Jedishy said:

Because why should any criminal ever care about the law if all they need to do is a few good deed and they can just keep balancing the cime scale out and be good to keep it up.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying she has focused heavily on attoning. Why is a punishment NECESSARY?

[Guest]

Also worth pointing out, imprisonment and punishment in Equestria NEVER WORKS.

Tirek was imprisoned and when he broke out... First thing he did... More evil shit.

Discord was imprisoned for 1,000 years, and when he broke out... He was doing the same shit, it took FORGIVENESS to change him.

Sombra was imprisoned, and when he broke out... Went right back to trying to enslave ponies.

Nightmare Moon came back after 1,000 years of imprisonment... Tried to take over again.

Chrysalis was banished from Equestria and... Still evil.

[KH7672 1,604]

2 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

The town she enslaved is free now and she's spent her time doing good and even saved Equestria. Does that count for nothing unless you spend time in prison prior to doing good things? That problem with our society as a whole is we care too much about the method and not enough about the end result. Who cares how it was achieved if the end result is her being good?

While I do like your enthusiasm for Starlight's defense, I do have to warn against this thinking. What your describing is a mindset of "The ends justifies the means." and in the wrong context this can be a very harmful philosophy. One such connotations is killing a miscreant as a demonstration to other miscreants. Was the killing necessary to demonstrate such, who cares the ends shows they got the message so means don't matter.

[Guest]

Just now, KH7672 said:

While I do like your enthusiasm for Starlight's defense, I do have to warn against this thinking. What your describing is a mindset of "The ends justifies the means." and in the wrong context this can be a very harmful philosophy. One such connotations is killing a miscreant as a demonstration to other miscreants. Was the killing necessary to demonstrate such, who cares the ends shows they got the message so means don't matter.

Except no one died here. Her efforts originally were not out of evil or malice, but a misguided belief that she was protecting people. She wasn't doing it to cause these ponies misery or because she hated them, but because she thought in her own way she was protecting them. No one was killed, and everyone was freed and forgave her.

What is the need for punishment? The end result is that she's a better person now and has used her talents to save Equestria.

Sure "any" mentality could be "dangerous" if put to use in any and all scenarios, but in this scenario... Seems that all parties affected were made whole. Who is not made whole still? Who is still left in want? If all sides are content, there is no reason to punishment.

I think a more dangerous mentality is jumping to the idea that punishment is more important than the RESULT of that punishment. If all punishment does is make people bitter enough to continue doing bad things, then punishment is entirely pointless. If the result of correcting the behavior is achieved without it, then why is it so important she be dealt some kind of punishment? I think that's a very vindictive way of thinking and showing that people need to really re-consider how they view the world in my opinion.

[gingerninja666 487]

3 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Also worth pointing out, imprisonment and punishment in Equestria NEVER WORKS.

Tirek was imprisoned and when he broke out... First thing he did... More evil shit.

Discord was imprisoned for 1,000 years, and when he broke out... He was doing the same shit, it took FORGIVENESS to change him.

Sombra was imprisoned, and when he broke out... Went right back to trying to enslave ponies.

Nightmare Moon came back after 1,000 years of imprisonment... Tried to take over again.

Chrysalis was banished from Equestria and... Still evil.

This. ONe can make the argument that the show SHOULD demonstrate the effectiveness of punishment more often. But it literally never has. Little lasting good has ever come of just locking someone up compared to rehabilitation..

[Jedishy 3,542]

1 minute ago, Key Sharkz said:

How can you be so certain that it would be the opposite then?

Never said it would be the opposite nor did I mean to imply it so if my sloppy wording lead to that I apologize. All I meant is that everyone has a plan until it hits the wall and then reactions come into play that we did not predict. 

3 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Does that count for nothing unless you spend time in prison prior to doing good things?

She should have been punished prior WAY prior. Further, it does not count for nothing. Good behavior gets reduced sentencing all the time. However she has done NOTHING to repay those she hurt directly. Nor do I think she can really. So she needs to face the music for what she did. 

 

4 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Are you seriously comparing Starlight to rapists and kidnappers?

A. You brought it into the real world. If we want to talk IRL then we need to it apply to the worst crimes or its useless. B. She did kidnap the Mane Six. Further there is hints of torture via brainwashing. So yea pretty bad crimes. 

5 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Why is a punishment NECESSARY?

Because when you hurt people you need to answer for it. You do not get to say oh I did xyz for years but over the last year or so I was real real good so who cares about those I hurt and all the suffering they went through. Its necessary b

 

9 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

The Mane 6 didn't just refuse to comply, they threatened the existence of her cult and which that she has to take action.

*Also the Nightmare Moon thing was referring to the alternate future version of her.

Because the victim is who I care about. I care about the justice for those hurt not a snake oil selling criminal pretending to be "good now"

 

10 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

They feel safe with the community, and they all live by the same standards. Yes cults cut ties with the outside world, yes cults punish those that don't follow the rules, that's part of the rules. The Mane 6 didn't just refuse to comply, they threatened the existence of her cult and which that she has to take action.

*Also the Nightmare Moon thing was referring to the alternate future version of her.

The problem is that brainwashing takes away the ability to decide to leave. Further, they threatened the existence of the cult sorry they wanted to show people there is another way and this justifies locking them up and subjecting them to brainwashing? Nah that is criminal behavior that is mental enslavement. Making people fearful of leaving is exactly what abusive spouses do what the leaders of Jones Town did. You do not get to set up a situation where people are unhappy and want to change it but cant. Starlight would not give people their cutiemark back. She would not let her experement fail. She showed her use of force when it was threatened. That is criminal and abusive. 

Oh and that NMM well does that really count? 

 

5 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

Also worth pointing out, imprisonment and punishment in Equestria NEVER WORKS.

 

Ok this is the only point I gotta give you. Maybe that means the prison system needs reform not doing away with. One can punish and rehabilitate at the same time. So I will agree there. 

 

1 minute ago, Key Sharkz said:

I think that's a very vindictive way of thinking and showing that people need to really re-consider how they view the world in my opinion.

I think that you are ignoring the victims and making things right by them. You are saying any amount of suffering can be washed clean because a person decides to be nice now. If Jeffry Dhamer never got caught and showed up after two years saying yea I did all those bad things but I am better now and I have created toys for tots would that be ok? Sorry nah people need to answer for what they did. Good deeds cant wash away crime all that is, is the moral equivalent of a body spray shower over an unwashed backside. You still stink you just smell of flowers too.