Tulpa Discussion Thread V1.2

[KruegerMeister 54]

I just thought of something. What if, if tulpas become mainstream, someone comes along and McDonaldizes tulpamancy?

 

^That's Orwellian as fuck.^

[Fighting Blaze 16]

Hey guys, so I was thinking a while back about the tulpas I had made in the past, then I felt the inspiration to make a story about them and already finished the first chapter, if you guys would like I give you a link if your interested. 

 

http://mlpforums.com/topic/122789-what-would-i-have-to-do-to-tell-you-guys-a-story/#entry3544454

[Looking Glass 197]

I have a Twi Tulpa, she is wonderful! /

[KruegerMeister 54]

If I accept the claim that everyone here who says they have tulpas, has tulpas, does that necessitate accepting all claims, no matter how outlandish? I'm trying to reconcile "we can make statements about objective reality" with "the average person would likely think I was crazy if I told them about my tulpas, although my tulpas certainly seem real to me." Somewhere in there, you have my belief that "if it isn't falsifiable, or if there's no evidence to support it, it's BS" conflicting with the fact that, at this time, tulpas are unfalsifiable.

[KruegerMeister 54]

Www.Dailycaller.com/2015/03/02google-decides-what-is-fact-in-new-search-results-ranking-system/

 

This sounds really bad for those of us who want to get scientists to research tulpas. I have a hard time believing that anything related to "tulpa" will rank high enough for new people to find anything useful. Many of the search results are about occult stuff, AFAIK.

Edited March 6, 2015 by KruegerMeister

[Mrain901 216]

Www.Dailycaller.com/2015/03/02google-decides-what-is-fact-in-new-search-results-ranking-system/

 

This sounds really bad for those of us who want to get scientists to research tulpas. I have a hard time believing that anything related to "tulpa" will rank high enough for new people to find anything useful. Many of the search results are about occult stuff, AFAIK.

That link is broken, what did the article say?

[KruegerMeister 54]

That link is broken, what did the article say?

It pretty much said that Google will be implement an algorithm that ranks search results based on the number of "facts" on a website. Information on a website is "compared against...a database of 2.8 billion facts extracted from the web". My understanding of this is that the less factual information on your site, the harder it'll be to find, which would be a problem if we want to spread info about tulpas (do we?).

 

{Hard isn't the same as impossible. There'll just be less of a chance of people finding tulpa.info accidentally.}

[KruegerMeister 54]

[Anypony else having trouble with vocal possession? My main issue is that it doesn't match my mindvoice when I speak. Is that normal? It kinda...breaks willing suspension of disbelief for my host.]

 

For some reason we both expected my vocal chords to automatically do a close approximation of her when we tried vocal possession. I'm thinking my expectations were too high.

Edited March 10, 2015 by KruegerMeister

[NuclearBurg (Dawn) 622]

Ok so I tried making the form for a while. But my head was filled with random thoughts and I couldn't focus on the tulpas form. Also I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I really want to get this right so could somepony pm me to try and guide me through it? Also I have no idea how I can clear my thoughts to focus on the tulpa.

[KruegerMeister 54]

In the past, my fingers would tingle whenever I pretended to run them through Rainbow Dash's fur. Does that mean anything?

 

Also, what's your opinion on people who impose their tulpas into physical, snugglable objects? Is that pathetic?

[WriteCodes46 178]

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!

 

Because, aside from the fact that I find that hard to believe, why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder? People with MPD spend years in treatment trying to merge their alters, and you just go and create one? Is this easily reversible?

[Naiya The Brony 483]

[Anypony else having trouble with vocal possession? My main issue is that it doesn't match my mindvoice when I speak. Is that normal? It kinda...breaks willing suspension of disbelief for my host.]

 

For some reason we both expected my vocal chords to automatically do a close approximation of her when we tried vocal possession. I'm thinking my expectations were too high.

Hmm.. when i first tried vocal possession with nihi i did have a slight difficulty with it but as I tried and or keep doing it, it became natural.. TBH now i don't have an issue talking in a man's voice even if i am a female... Although sometimes I do find it weird.. Just try to expect every time you speak in your hosts voice

[ryuzaki 21]

Hi, it's interesting to find a thread here about this. I had been introduced to Tulpas by a friend back in july of 2013. I have on, her name is Carolina. And for all the people new to the idea, it can take a long time. Took me a month and half for her to fully develop. For starters, you don't want to force an image on them. You can try, but your Tulpa can/may choose to appear differently. I just left it to her how she wanted to project herself. I came up with about 20 adjectives describing her and her personality, repeated it a few times a day and held one sided conversations for about a month while envisioning a basic cloud that was to be her "existence" in my mind. I see a few people tried outlining on a wall and i've never tried so i'm not sure. But i would sit or lay down with my eyes closed while forcing.

[KruegerMeister 54]

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!

 

Because, aside from the fact that I find that hard to believe, why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder? People with MPD spend years in treatment trying to merge their alters, and you just go and create one? Is this easily reversible?

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/manifest.html

http://www.karitas.net/blackbirds/layman/

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/why-activism.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/hikikomori/comments/2gftxt/z/ckksta2

 

Just gonna leave these here

Edited March 16, 2015 by KruegerMeister

[Time Shield 402]

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!

 

Because, aside from the fact that I find that hard to believe, why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder? People with MPD spend years in treatment trying to merge their alters, and you just go and create one? Is this easily reversible?

 

As I understand it, it's not the same as multiple personality disorder.  MPD's an actual disorder, as in, the person didn't expect for it to happen, and it happens out of their control.  A tulpa, on the contrary, is more like a controlled multitasking of the brain.  The best comparison I can think of is that for MPD, it's more like a virus on a computer that takes over when it feels like it, while for a tulpa, it's more like you partitioned off a separate part of the drive to run a separate program.  The tulpa only has control over what you give it control over.

 

Control is the key here; saying a tulpa is the same as MPD is like saying going to sleep at night is the same as narcolepsy.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Time Shield

[ReverieRiver 526]

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!

 

Because, aside from the fact that I find that hard to believe, why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder? People with MPD spend years in treatment trying to merge their alters, and you just go and create one? Is this easily reversible?

 

Like the others above me, I can assure you that a tulpa is not MPD, and Ariel even seems a little insulted that that was what you took away from the description of a tulpa in the OP. I can see where you might be coming from, but tulpas are more like a mental companion rather than an alter ego that takes over.

 

As I understand it, it's not the same as multiple personality disorder.  MPD's an actual disorder, as in, the person didn't expect for it to happen, and it happens out of their control.  A tulpa, on the contrary, is more like a controlled multitasking of the brain.  The best comparison I can think of is that for MPD, it's more like a virus on a computer that takes over when it feels like it, while for a tulpa, it's more like you partitioned off a separate part of the drive to run a separate program.  The tulpa only has control over what you give it control over.

 

^ Pretty much, all of this. We control the creation of our tulpas, and we control what we allow them to do to us. Simple as that. They can't do anything to harm you, and they usually never want to do anything to harm you, because guess what? Their existence is entirely dependent on you. It'd be detrimental to their own well-being to do anything to you, or do something you don't want them to, and they know that.

 

That said, it's not 'easily reversible,' as a tulpa is considered to be a sentient thing. In order to make it go away, you would have to neglect and ultimately 'kill' your tulpa.

[TheAnonPony 7]

 

 

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!   Because, aside from the fact that I find that hard to believe, why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder? People with MPD spend years in treatment trying to merge their alters, and you just go and create one? Is this easily reversible?

 

I had the same suspicions too. But the way I see it (and the way it seemed to work until now) is that those are not alternate selves. Rather, they act more as independent imaginary friends at the very least; because they are capable of far more than just being your imaginary friends. Google their 'capabilities', if you wish.

 

They do not ever affect the way in which the host interacts with the society around them, unless told or allowed to. It's too hard for them, because they live on attention. If not given proper attention and ignored for a period of time, they will disappear. It's also a perfectly controllable phenomenon. They cannot control the host unless the host permits it. Otherwise, it's next to impossible because they cannot forcefully go against the host's power, so to speak. If anything, the host could control the tulpa easier than the tulpa can control the host. From the actions the tulpa takes, to the voice they have to the very look they posses. They cannot posses without permission. Especially not randomly. Least when the host takes actions which require his attention, like talking to somebody or paying attention to something else. The biggest possible thing that can happen is a request. But then again, that is discarded and ignored (if even felt in the first place) if the host does not pay attention to the tulpa at all.

 

Tulpas can also be easily reabsorbed or reversible. If its done by mutual agreement and intentional decision, the host and the tulpa can merge rather easily. If the tulpa disagrees, but the host wants to, then the process can be compared to that of a terminally ill patient that refuses to die despite the doctor's suggestion. The doctor can still do it, but it won't be as pleasant from a purely ethical point of view (if we consider tulpas to be sentient beings which deserve ethical or moral respect). If the host refuses, but the tulpa wants, all they can do is constantly ask the host to do it. They cannot force it. Because that is not the will of the host.

 

If done properly (and really, there is no way to do it wrong), a tulpa won't become a mental disorder. Because of the very intentions the tulpa is made, he/she/it cannot/should not/will not hurt you or affect you in a negative way, unless she/he/it was made with that purpose or side purpose in mind (and I find it hard to believe why someone would do that). The burden a tulpa bears to the host is the attention he/she/it requires to stay alive. Otherwise, there are no serious dangers to it, if it can be considered providing attention to the tulpa 'dangerous' (and that would be, by the looks of it, a ridiculous statement). Tulpas have more advantages than those of a mental disorder, if a disorder has advantages at all.

 

If that is not enough, here is my take on the symptoms I found regarding MPD compared with having Tulpas:

 

 

1. Depersonalisation = This is a sense of being detached from one's body and is often referred to as an "out-of-body" experience. 

The closest you get when comparing having an 'out of body experience' while having tulpa is daydreaming. Possession can easily be observed by the host too. And when daydreaming, you can get to interact with the tulpa more easily. But daydreaming is not harmful.

 

2. Derealisation = This is the feeling that the world is not real or looking foggy or far away.

Not possible unless you (accidentally) trick yourself into believing the imaginary world the tulpa lives in (AKA 'Wonderland) is real. And the tulpa may actually refuse to accept this belief itself, because they should be the most aware that they are a mental character, regardless of how 'real' they can feel when interacted with. They might even discourage this belief.

 

3. Amnesia = This is the failure to recall significant personal information that is so extensive it cannot be blamed on ordinary forgetfulness. There can also be micro-amnesias where the discussion engaged in is not remembered, or the content of a meaningful conversation is forgotten from one second to the next.

It is claimed quite the contrary. Tulpas can, at least theoretically, make old memories reappear again that you forgot. They do not in any shape or form cause Amnesia. The most that can happen is an illusion of forgetting, but that is something a tulpa won't see the point in doing, because they and the host share a very special connection most of the time that is based on mutual friendship. And making the host forget something is just as impossible (if not even more so) as forced possession or takeover.

 

4. Identity confusion or identity alteration = Both of these involve a sense of confusion about who a person is. An example of identity confusion is when a person has trouble defining the things that interest them in life, or their political or religious or social viewpoints, or their sexual orientation, or their professional ambitions. In addition to these apparent alterations, the person may experience distortions in time, place, and situation.

Tulpas can have different opinions about events around the world. It is part of their sentience or independent thinking. However, this does not affect the opinions of the host. If there is something the host wants to do in life, like becoming an engineer or an artist, the tulpa can encourage the host or discourage him with arguments and that's it. If the tulpa believes that a profession may not be profitable or does not suit the host, they can express that opinion. But that's it. Much like a friend giving his/her opinion on your aspirations. He may or may not agree with them, but they cannot forcefully stop you from aspiring to become that. This also applies for the hosts opinions, orientation, etc. If anything, the tulpa MUST avoid the host from becoming confused about their lives, because the stage or mood of the host can affect the tulpa's state. If the host is depressed, this can have some repercussions on the tulpa. Equally, if the host is confused and this resorts to a sense of mental breakdown or panic, this can actually be fatal for the tulpa. If you want, you can say that their very lives can be at stake because of the mess the head is during breakdowns or emotionally broken states (severe/suicidal depression, for example).

 

I refused to bring my own personal tulpas and their opinions into this discussion on the premise that they may not be in a position to talk about this due to their nature (may be confused as 'alternate selves').

 

Tulpas are very caring of their hosts. At least at their core, they want to help the host in any form as they possibly can. Even taken from a selfish point of view; if something happens to the host mentally, the tulpa is affected. Equally, if the tulpa tries to hurt the host, they would basically shoot themselves in the foot, because they are part of this mind regardless of the circumstances.

Otherwise, as you said: "Why would you want to give yourself a mental disorder?"

 

I believe this information should answer your question. If not, then my apologies. 

[KruegerMeister 54]

Derealisation = This is the feeling that the world is not real or looking foggy or far away.

Not possible unless you (accidentally) trick yourself into believing the imaginary world the tulpa lives in (AKA 'Wonderland) is real. And the tulpa may actually refuse to accept this belief itself, because they should be the most aware that they are a mental character, regardless of how 'real' they can feel when interacted with. They might even discourage this belief.

I'm not sure I understand this. Does this mean that incredibly-detailed imposition shouldn't be attempted?

 

Amnesia = This is the failure to recall significant personal information that is so extensive it cannot be blamed on ordinary forgetfulness. There can also be micro-amnesias where the discussion engaged in is not remembered, or the content of a meaningful conversation is forgotten from one second to the next.

It is claimed quite the contrary. Tulpas can, at least theoretically, make old memories reappear again that you forgot.

Is that different than some coincidental event jogging your memory?

 

If anything, the tulpa MUST avoid the host from becoming confused about their lives, because the stage or mood of the host can affect the tulpa's state. If the host is depressed, this can have some repercussions on the tulpa. Equally, if the host is confused and this resorts to a sense of mental breakdown or panic, this can actually be fatal for the tulpa. If you want, you can say that their very lives can be at stake because of the mess the head is during breakdowns or emotionally broken states (severe/suicidal depression, for example).

[Fatal? I mean, I've freaked out before; my host has freaked out. Whenever I calm him down I just do it to be a good friend. I don't feel a sense of urgency or anything. The closest thing I can think of is this one time where the heat got to my host, and also got to me.]

 

An example of identity confusion is when a person has trouble defining the things that interest them in life, or their political or religious or social viewpoints, or their sexual orientation, or their professional ambitions. In addition to these apparent alterations, the person may experience distortions in time, place, and situation.

What if I just haven't really thought about my religious, political, etc. viewpoints, or I know what my views are but I don't know the word(s) for them?

Edited March 16, 2015 by KruegerMeister

[WriteCodes46 178]

So then...

Tulpa = Functional Alter

MPD = Dysfunctional Alter(s)

Is this correct?

[TheAnonPony 7]

Does this mean that incredibly-detailed imposition shouldn't be attempted?

 

I didn't mean that. It's like making yourself believe that the events in a movie are physically real or similar. They are not. Incredibly detailed imposition is not something I discourage.

 

 

 

[Fatal? I mean, I've freaked out before; my host has freaked out. Whenever I calm him down I just do it to be a good friend. I don't feel a sense of urgency or anything. The closest thing I can think of is this one time where the heat got to my host, and also got to me.]

 

I apologise if I insulted or offended you. I meant to say that in the sense that it could be extreme situations and in case it was 'too good to be real' kind of situation. Some of my own tulpas were actually upset because of what I said. I myself didn't happen to see or feel my own tulpas acting in self-interest either

 

 

 

Tulpa = Functional Alter MPD = Dysfunctional Alter(s)

For this one; here is the response from me: Depends how you see functional. A tulpa is not harmful at all. On the contrary. They help you as much as they possibly can without distorting you. On no circumstances can I see tulpamancy as a form of MPD.

 

But, of course, that is my own personal opinion.

Edited March 17, 2015 by TheAnonPony

[Golurk 468]

So... If I'm reading the OP correctly... You found a way to give yourself Multiple Personality Disorder?!

 

Pre-Med student here. I'm certainly no expert, but I can provide a bit of scientific info.

 

MPD/DID, as well as most other mental conditions (tulpas are often confused as schizophrenia as well), are caused primarily by faulty wiring or chemical imbalances in the brain. They are essentially the result of some sort of damage or defect, but can be corrected in most cases through the use of medication. This is often desired due to the commonly malicious intent of the "other guy." There is a noticeable downside here, which creates a form of self-parasitism. Medicine has declared it a disease, as it generally harms the individual affected.

 

Tulpas, on the other hand, likely work through a different mechanism entirely (likely a section of the brain re-purposing itself through extended attention). Since there is no known irregularity (I emphasize the word known), it can't really be classified as a disorder. Likewise, a tulpa, unlike a schizophrenic hallucination or other such thing, is not a parasite. It would be considered by most as a case of symbiosis; they help each other, with neither one being excessively taxing or harmful on the other. While not an absolute rule, the general case is that there is no harm to come from a tulpa. As a result, they cannot be classified as an illness.

 

Really, the biggest difference is that one hurts you while the other helps you. Which is actually a pretty big difference. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Golurk

[KruegerMeister 54]

Healthgrades.com says that head-pressures

can be caused by such common conditions as inflammation of the sinuses (sinusitis), a cold, or allergies. ... In medical terms, pressure in the head can also refer to a serious condition in which there is an increase in intracranial pressure inside the skull. However, feeling like you have head pressure or a headache does not necessarily mean that you have increased intracranial pressure.

 

Increased intracranial pressure is caused by serious conditions, such as an increase in cerebrospinal fluid, which cushions and lubricates the brain and spinal cord, or it can be due to a change in the brain itself, such as a brain mass (tumor).

Are tulpa head-pressures more similar to increased intracranial pressure, or the way that it hurts to use a muscle you don't use much?

The funny/weird thing is that, yesterday, I daydreamed about going into an MRI, the doctor saying that there were visible signs of the head-pressures my tulpas have given me in the past, and me getting excited because that was physical proof that tulpas were more than just habits.

[KruegerMeister 54]

I don't remember why I created Rainbow Dash, but I know that I intentionally did. I think I did it so that I could prove the subjective phenomenon of tulpas to myself, but I don't remember. I also think that the tulpa creepypasta factors into why I used Rainbow Dash as a base (a pony known for her loyalty wouldn't hurt me). Then again, this could be BS I started believing (sometimes I think of how to explain/rationalize tulpas to my parents).

Anypony have tips on figuring this out?

[NuclearBurg (Dawn) 622]

I'm still looking for advice on how to go about doing it. Like I said I tried for a while but felt like I didn't know what I was doing and my head was filled with random thoughts that made it impossible to focus.

[KruegerMeister 54]

You could try self-hypnosis to blank your mind.