mega thread Everypony's Religion And Why?

[John 793]

How does "under God" oppress Muslims or Wiccans? How much would you be bothered to say "under Bodhisattva" or "under Thor"? It is oppression, clean and simple to force others to condone to one single philosophy in a nation that same time is supposed to be about freedom and democracy.

 

Christianity is respected enough for an idea, it is not ideas that need to be respected, only people deserve respect and a nation that respects its citizens, not some church is a nation vastly superior to any that follows a certain church or dogma. England follows the royal church, in Ireland government favoring one religion over other caused a war and in middle east government backing to Islam causes all the horrible cruelty and vandalism that happens there.

 

 

You in essence are sad because you are not allowed to force others into your will and to agree with you and that is horribly dishonest and immature stance.

You want to say under god in flag pledge, well you could say it even if it is not written there, that is your freedom. Not to force others to say it too.

 

Your logic:  If "under god" is written then others are forced to say it and it is oppression.

 

if "under god" is taken out then it is fair because everyone says the same thing.

 

 

Your contradiction:  You said that "you could say it even if it is not written there."  This means that others could say whatever they wanted to also.  Just because "under God" is in the pledge, doesn't mean others are forced to say it.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

Not suppressed by law, suppressed by mainstream society. Everybody's an atheist; no matter where I go. Can't wear a fucking cross on the subway without someone harping me about how my "religion is fake." Give me a break.

 

do you know what its like to deal with THAT many quarrelsome atheists every day? Depressing to say the least.

 

And I'm not ignorant of the constitution. Our government doesn't recognize much of the constitution so...

Oh just ignore them, if someone told me "you're going to hell" I'd just laugh at them. People are getting less and less religious, times are changing and you have to accept it. As for the government, well they are the government. I wouldn't trust them, and we shouldn't let them get away with things. Edited July 1, 2013 by AtDawnTheySquee

[John 793]

Oh just ignore them, if someone told me "you're going to hell" I'd just laugh at then. People are getting less and less religious, times are changing and you have to accept it. As for the government, well they are the government. I wouldn't trust them, and we shouldn't let them get away things.

 

But I don't have to accept it.  I'm going to express my religion until the day I die.

And there's nothing we can do about the government.  They forged two equally powerful yet equally stupid parties that can't accomplish anything (which is perfect for those who don't want change).

[Sheogorath 1,155]

Your logic:  If "under god" is written then others are forced to say it and it is oppression.

 

if "under god" is taken out then it is fair because everyone says the same thing.

 

 

Your contradiction:  You said that "you could say it even if it is not written there."  This means that others could say whatever they wanted to also.  Just because "under God" is in the pledge, doesn't mean others are forced to say it.

It is not contradiction, the part where it says it black on white is the problem. Once it is in print it is imposed on people. Freedom is in addendum, not in the omission.

[Symph 103]

How does "under God" oppress Muslims or Wiccans? How much would you be bothered to say "under Bodhisattva" or "under Thor"? It is oppression, clean and simple to force others to condone to one single philosophy in a nation that same time is supposed to be about freedom and democracy.

 

I never thought of it like that.  I would throw a bloody fit if I had to say "Under hare krishna" or it was even just, the default and I could get out of it.  You have definitely made me see this in a new light.  

[John 793]

That alone is a proof that you indeed are ignorant of the constitution. Your government is BUILT on that constitution and it is the very core of that governments policy making.

 

A lot of things change in 200+ years.  So many of our rights are violated on a day to day basis.  (Patriot act anyone?)  Just because our government was built on the constitution does not mean it necessarily follows it completely today.

 

And I don't even care about the under God thing.  I was only like 20% serious about that one.  What I do care about is not having my religion disrespected, as I don't disrespect the religions and beliefs of others.

Edited July 1, 2013 by John

[Symph 103]

Ok this is probably gonna offend some and resonate with others.  But what if we could change it all to a nation under LOVE.  Change those words to "One nation, under love"  Or "In love we trust"  I personally would think that was freaking awesome hahahaha

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

But I don't have to accept it. I'm going to express my religion until the day I die.

And there's nothing we can do about the government. They forged two equally powerful yet equally stupid parties that can't accomplish anything (which is perfect for those who don't want change).

It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, you still can't change it. Maybe in the future we will became secular enough that we do rid "Under God" and "In God We Trust", it's very likely.

Ok this is probably gonna offend some and resonate with others. But what if we could change it all to a nation under LOVE. Change those words to "One nation, under love" Or "In love we trust" I personally would think that was freaking awesome hahahaha

Good idea but I don't think love would be a good word. I find UNITY to work a lot better and it's also pretty American too. "In Unity We Trust", "One nation, under unity". It totally works. Edited July 1, 2013 by AtDawnTheySquee

[Galen 1,354]

Oh ok then!  Yeah I get what you mean.  It's hard for me when debates arise.  Most of my belief is off personal experience, not things I read/heard.  I began believing when I read matthew and it just.. it like.. MADE SENSE OF EVERYTHING to me.  So then I decided I would take every principle in that book, and try my best to apply it to my life.  I rid myself of as much of what Jesus called "sin" as I could.  When I did this... stuff started happening.  I began feeling like I'd find myself at the right place at the right time, I began to feel this peace everywhere I went.  I've just.. had some crazy experiences and seen the power of living that way work and I dont' just mean like in a non supernatural way no I've experienced some "coincidences" that were just too crazy for words.  All this is why I believe.  

 

It wasn't until later that I realized the questions from non believers would come, and I should do some research to be able to back up my lifestyle.  But ultimately, the historical evidence/archaeological proof all that stuff?  I just do that to be prepared for the questions.  my belief is based on my life experiences and my inner emotions and feelings and how the bible makes me feel toward life and humanity and what I believe it's done in my life.  That's why I hate REAL debates.  Though I have to say, so far you guys are allowing me to express my beliefs more than I expected, I'm not used to this.  On youtube atheists wouldn't be this kind and open minded, they would try to corner me and disprove me and tell me I contradicted myself and even when I'd say "Look I'm not trying to convert you ok?  I just believe what I believe let it go" They would say "that's not good enough because you're furthering a harmful belief that is taking away freedoms and harming the world if you can't explain this this and this you have no right to call yourself a christian now answer my questions" etc.  It... it really reeeally was a messed up time for me.  I was full of anxiety and just.. man I hated that period of my life.  That's why I USUALLY don't talk about this stuff in depth, but the more this thread goes on the more I'm feeling ok with sharing, you guys are really.. open minded   

 

Well, utube isn't exactly a hub of civil discussions, and religion can be an extremely delicate topic for a lot of people. Online religious debates typically end up like this more often than not:

 

 

I haven't read Matthew enough to remember it thoroughly so I'm not gonna judge. What I am gonna say is that what you've experienced after reading it sounds really similar to my experience after reading Liao Fan (a Chinese philosopher during the 16th century), which further proves that great morals can be obtained from any source of religion or none at all. The one thing worth pointing out, however, is it's impossible to say archeological evidence of events that took place don't necessarily prove the existence of any god as correlation does not mean causation. It just means the event happened. Why it happened is a different matter which again comes down to perception.

 

No, I'm only partially serious.  I'm frustrated at the fact that nobody values Christianity anymore.  Its like being alone.

 

Lol, so saying "under god" makes me "oppress people into submission" when they don't have to say it.

And our big business supported government does nothing to ensure our constitutional rights these days.  Salute that?  I don't think so.

 

Christianity is the most popular religion in the world and you say nobody gives it any value? Really?

 

"Under God" in the pledge of allegiance implies the USA is a Christian nation when it is not. The consitution, for all its faults, also states that the US encourages freedom of religion. What that means is anyone is free to believe in what they want to believe, but people erroneously interpret that as anyone practicing a religion other than their own is oppression and a threat to freedom of religion because of the perception that Christianity is the one true religion.

[Sheogorath 1,155]

It doesn't matter if you accept it or not, you still can't change it. Maybe in the future we will became secular enough that we do rid "Under God" and "In God We Trust", it's very likely.

 

Good idea but I think love would be a good word. I find UNITY to work a lot better and it's also pretty American too. "In Unity We Trust", "One nation, under unity". It totally works.

 

Or even better, "In freedom we trust", and one nation, undivided.  It does not need the under god part, the undivided is a lot better.

On money, "in freedom we trust" is exactly the thing that makes democratic capitalism work, freedom of trade, regardless of borders and philosophies.

[John 793]

Ok how did we even get here?  We're supposed to be discussing religion, not the rights behind practicing religion in the united states and silly practices of having "G-d" written on a political document and having everyone freak out.  Who gives a shit.  Its all opinionated and not worth discussing.  I'm pretty much pulling an all nighter and my brain doesn't wan't to think about that boring stuff.

 

Lets get back onto track on why people have their religions.

Edited July 1, 2013 by John

[Symph 103]

Well, utube isn't exactly a hub of civil discussions, and religion can be an extremely delicate topic for a lot of people. Online religious debates typically end up like this more often than not:

 

 

I haven't read Matthew enough to remember it thoroughly so I'm not gonna judge. What I am gonna say is that what you've experienced after reading it sounds really similar to my experience after reading Liao Fan (a Chinese philosopher during the 16th century), which further proves that great morals can be obtained from any source of religion or none at all. The one thing worth pointing out, however, is it's impossible to say archeological evidence of events that took place don't necessarily prove the existence of any god as correlation does not mean causation. It just means the event happened. Why it happened is a different matter which again comes down to perception.

 

 

Christianity is the most popular religion in the world and you say nobody gives it any value? Really?

 

"Under God" in the pledge of allegiance implies the USA is a Christian nation when it is not. The consitution, for all its faults, also states that the US encourages freedom of religion. What that means is anyone is free to believe in what they want to believe, but people erroneously interpret that as anyone practicing a religion other than their own is oppression and a threat to freedom of religion because of the perception that Christianity is the one true religion.

There's a side to this you don't see though, I... I don't agree with everything John says I really don't, but I do GET where he's coming from.  Christianity IS the most popular religion, but it's also the most hated religion.  People talk about having to be "closet atheists".  Believe me, there are people who feel they need to be closet christians too.  While you do have those people who are just cool with you if you're cool with them, there are a TON of people out there who think that if I'm a christian I'm going to judge them and think they're going to hell and think I must be a bigot and an idiot.  Though you made a good point about youtube, it was my big introduction into all that, and maybe it's just a terrible example of how people really are.  

 

As far as the experiences with other beliefs, yes!  I was raised to think all other religions were wrong, but in my personal studies found that buddhism lines up with christianity very well with the exception of the "nirvana" "nihilist" aspect.  And I believe rastafarians are learning much from God too!  I believe God is working in people who love, plain and simple.  They can call him whatever they like, hell I will admit that maybe even my bible that brought me to God isn't the ultimate truth, I DO think it is, but I will allow for the possibility that it isn't.  What seems undeniable, is that love, acceptance, forgiveness, harmony, humility, these things are universal and good.  And whatever name you call God/Love/Good by, is pretty irrelevant.  If it's truly love you live by, you will find truth, and that truth will set you free.  When we get to the end of this experiment, I think EVERYONE will find they had a mixture of wrong and right beliefs.  We dont need to agree on everything, we need to agree on LOVE.  

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

Or even better, "In freedom we trust", and one nation, undivided. It does not need the under god part, the undivided is a lot better.

On money, "in freedom we trust" is exactly the thing that makes democratic capitalism work, freedom of trade, regardless of borders and philosophies.

Ahh yes, that works very well too. I just used unity since we are the United States of America. One nation, under freedom, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[Sheogorath 1,155]

Lets get back onto track on why people have their religions.

Because of ignorance and fear, or because they were born to religious parents who pushed that belief in to their child's impressionable head one asswhooping and a threat at the time. 

But on a more serious manner, There was a really interesting podcast of that very issue on Seth Andrews show over here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/podcast/58 

As an olive branch offered if you have a bit of time to spare 

[John 793]

Ahh yes, that works very well too. I just used unity since we are the United States of America. One nation, under freedom, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

 

Sure, that works, It doesn't matter all that much.  Its just a line of text.

 

Because of ignorance and fear, or because they were born to religious parents who pushed that belief in to their child's impressionable head one asswhooping and a threat at the time. 

But on a more serious manner, There was a really interesting podcast of that very issue on Seth Andrews show over here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/podcast/58 

As an olive branch offered if you have a bit of time to spare 

 

Please, all I ask is that you be respectful because none of the things you've said are reasons for why I have my religion.  My parent's we're really loving and always gave me the freedom to choose what I wanted to believe in.  Hell, my sister's an Atheist, so don't even go there.  I'm honestly not obsessed with an afterlife either.  I suppose you could say I care more about there being divine meaning to things.  After all, My biggest fear is a life without meaning.  And I'm not ignorant.  In fact, I'm majoring in a science related field and I don't deny scientific discovery.

 

 

and to the comment below:

Religion doesn't cause wars.  Intolerance causes wars.

Edited July 1, 2013 by John

[PoniesPlease 365]

What's that religion that causes all the wars? Y'know, the one where people argue with each other about their faith until they start mercilessly killing each other, and then everyone else starts killing each other because they're humans and they're stupid?

 

Oh wait. It's that one.

[Sheogorath 1,155]

Please, all I ask is that you be respectful because none of the things you've said are reasons for why I have my religion.  My parent's we're really loving and always gave me the freedom to choose what I wanted to believe in.  Hell, my sister's an Atheist, so don't even go there.  I'm honestly not obsessed with an afterlife either.  I suppose you could say I care more about there being divine meaning to things.  After all, My biggest fear is a life without meaning.  And I'm not ignorant.  In fact, I'm majoring in a science related field and I don't deny scientific discovery.

 

It was a joke. Jokes aren't respectful, they're supposed to be funny because they cross the line in jest.

What is this field you are majoring? Also good on your parents for being reasonable.

[Symph 103]

What's that religion that causes all the wars? Y'know, the one where people argue with each other about their faith until they start mercilessly killing each other, and then everyone else starts killing each other because they're humans and they're stupid?

 

Oh wait. It's that one.

You mean islam?  Or maybe you mean atheism.  (Stalin, Hitler)  Or could it be rastafarianism!  (the bloodshed in jamaica over that is still going)  Sorry I can't figure out what religion you mean, it could apply to so many...

[Mikestar 346]

Ok so I posted earlier and certainly not judging anyone or trying to offend anyone. Spirituality is  personal choice everyone has to make for themselves.

 

With me, I'm somewhere In the middle and this song wraps it up.. (Don't listen if you don't like religious stuff)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV1MC5rUUg&list=FL-QihOvZpMZy-4crsHARNAQ

 

ps. i think it's ok to discuss religion as long as it's respectful and doesn't turn into a hate debate!

 

Then again... there is this little two minutes of wisdom to contemplate

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGFjrsfaatY 

 

or we could all just follow Pinkie Sense! 

Edited July 1, 2013 by Mikestar

[PoniesPlease 365]

You mean islam?  Or maybe you mean atheism.  (Stalin, Hitler)  Or could it be rastafarianism!  (the bloodshed in jamaica over that is still going)  Sorry I can't figure out what religion you mean, it could apply to so many...

 

Sorry, I read your reply and had to post this. LOL.

 

Anyway yeah, the idea is that every religion seems to cause some sort of debate, be it a simple verbal debate or a violent clash between two legions of fanatical warriors. 

[Galen 1,354]

There's a side to this you don't see though, I... I don't agree with everything John says I really don't, but I do GET where he's coming from.  Christianity IS the most popular religion, but it's also the most hated religion.  People talk about having to be "closet atheists".  Believe me, there are people who feel they need to be closet christians too.  While you do have those people who are just cool with you if you're cool with them, there are a TON of people out there who think that if I'm a christian I'm going to judge them and think they're going to hell and think I must be a bigot and an idiot.  Though you made a good point about youtube, it was my big introduction into all that, and maybe it's just a terrible example of how people really are.  

 

As far as the experiences with other beliefs, yes!  I was raised to think all other religions were wrong, but in my personal studies found that buddhism lines up with christianity very well with the exception of the "nirvana" "nihilist" aspect.  And I believe rastafarians are learning much from God too!  I believe God is working in people who love, plain and simple.  They can call him whatever they like, hell I will admit that maybe even my bible that brought me to God isn't the ultimate truth, I DO think it is, but I will allow for the possibility that it isn't.  What seems undeniable, is that love, acceptance, forgiveness, harmony, humility, these things are universal and good.  And whatever name you call God/Love/Good by, is pretty irrelevant.  If it's truly love you live by, you will find truth, and that truth will set you free.  When we get to the end of this experiment, I think EVERYONE will find they had a mixture of wrong and right beliefs.  We dont need to agree on everything, we need to agree on LOVE.  

 

As far as being the most hated religion, I think it's got plenty of competition with both Islam and Judaism. Just sayin'

 

I get your point about other people automatically think you're judging them because you're a Christian, which is also wrong. What I'm saying is that the same goes for other religions that have a bad rep, particularly Islam these days. Tell someone you're a Muslim in America and various parts of Europe, and people don't just think you're judging them badly, they'll think you're a terrorist or something along those lines, which is why I can't see how it's truly relevant.

 

But I agree on the next part. Love and friendship is the universal truth, and pretty much every scripture from all corners of the world would say as much.

 

You mean islam?  Or maybe you mean atheism.  (Stalin, Hitler)  Or could it be rastafarianism!  (the bloodshed in jamaica over that is still going)  Sorry I can't figure out what religion you mean, it could apply to so many...

 

LMFAO so true

[Symph 103]

 

Sorry, I read your reply and had to post this. LOL.

 

Anyway yeah, the idea is that every religion seems to cause some sort of debate, be it a simple verbal debate or a violent clash between two legions of fanatical warriors. 

hahaha I just don't know you well enough yet, totally seemed like a jab at christianity to me.  I made a joke to a guy on twitter earlier today and he took me WAY too seriously, in text we're just that, text, just words.  Once we get used to each other we start to grasp what kind of person is making the text

[Sheogorath 1,155]

You mean islam?  Or maybe you mean atheism.  (Stalin, Hitler)  Or could it be rastafarianism!  (the bloodshed in jamaica over that is still going)  Sorry I can't figure out what religion you mean, it could apply to so many...

The atheism is not a religion, it caused no wars. It was communism which you speak of. Communism that got corrupted. All atheism is is just lack of belief into a deity. That is all, neat and simple, going one god further than everyone else in belief to invisible sky people.

Hitler was a Christian in fact. I would point you to any of the many biographies on Hitler but I assume you are not too interested in the old crazy judging your initial confusion of his religious ideals.

Stalin was an atheist, sure, but he was also a communist and a sociopath. A real mental illness plagued him and had nothing to do with him not believing in gods of any sort, just meant that once he got pissed off at a certain pastor, he felt that religion needs to be outlawed and dedicated his life to that.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Sheogorath

[Symph 103]

As far as being the most hated religion, I think it's got plenty of competition with both Islam and Judaism. Just sayin'

 

I get your point about other people automatically think you're judging them because you're a Christian, which is also wrong. What I'm saying is that the same goes for other religions that have a bad rep, particularly Islam these days. Tell someone you're a Muslim in America and various parts of Europe, and people don't just think you're judging them badly, they'll think you're a terrorist or something along those lines, which is why I can't see how it's truly relevant.

 

But I agree on the next part. Love and friendship is the universal truth, and pretty much every scripture from all corners of the world would say as much.

 

 

LMFAO so true

I guess once again I'm going by youtube, on YOUTUBE, christianity is the most hated religion.  In the rest of life/the world?  I really don't know.. probably islam, because of Al Queida.  Hell I used to think Islam was evil!  Then I made some islamic friends on the internet and learned alot about it.  For the record, for anyone who's like I used to be, Al Queida isn't Islam, it's an offshoot that most of Islam rejects.  

The atheism is not a religion, it caused no wars. It was communism which you speak of. Communism that got corrupted. All atheism is is just lack of belief into a deity. That is all, neat and simple, going one god further than everyone else in belief to invisible sky people.

Hitler was a Christian in fact. I would point you to any of the many biographies on Hitler but I assume you are not too interested in the old crazy judging your initial confusion of his religious ideals.

Stalin was an atheist, sure, but he was also a communist and a sociopath. A real mental illness plagued him and had nothing to do with him not believing in gods of any sort, just meant that once he got pissed off at a certain pastor, he felt that religion needs to be outlawed and dedicated his life to that.

I've heard this rebuttal before, and have a rebuttal to this rebuttal, however I don't want to have this conversation, out of fear it will wind up the way it did the last time I had this conversation.  Therefore I give you bro hugs instead.

[Sheogorath 1,155]

I guess once again I'm going by youtube, on YOUTUBE, christianity is the most hated religion.  In the rest of life/the world?  I really don't know.. probably islam, because of Al Queida.  Hell I used to think Islam was evil!  Then I made some islamic friends on the internet and learned alot about it.  For the record, for anyone who's like I used to be, Al Queida isn't Islam, it's an offshoot that most of Islam rejects.  

Don't go by Youtube. It is not a good thing to go by. It does not give a realistic depiction of anything. In fact, if you go by youtube the mankind is already doomed and everyone is a blathering fool sitting around with dick in their hand screaming at blank walls in some psychotic frantic rage.

I guess once again I'm going by youtube, on YOUTUBE, christianity is the most hated religion.  In the rest of life/the world?  I really don't know.. probably islam, because of Al Queida.  Hell I used to think Islam was evil!  Then I made some islamic friends on the internet and learned alot about it.  For the record, for anyone who's like I used to be, Al Queida isn't Islam, it's an offshoot that most of Islam rejects.  

I've heard this rebuttal before, and have a rebuttal to this rebuttal, however I don't want to have this conversation, out of fear it will wind up the way it did the last time I had this conversation.  Therefore I give you bro hugs instead.

Which rebuttal, the Hitler one?

Do you have aversion to facts?

Or do you mean about Stalins Sociopathic narcisism? Because he even himself knew he had it and was quite proud of it.

Or that atheism is not a religion? Because if atheism is a religion then not eating is food and silence is a genre of music.

 

Oh and hugs are always welcome! 

 

Also; have bunnykisses :

Edited July 1, 2013 by Sheogorath