Rules & FAQ changes

[Zoop 8,384]

Hi there!

 

This is just a heads-up heads-up regarding some changes we've made to our site rules and FAQ that everyone should be made aware of. I'll go through all of the adjustments and talk a bit about them. If you have any questions about anything, feel free to pose them here.

 

First off: it is no longer permissible to complain about warnings on the public forum, status updates, or blog posts.

 

We don't air our dirty laundry out in the open, and we expect the same from you. If you disagree with an action taken by the staff, you have two options:

 

• Open a mod dispute.
• Create a general feedback topic about the issue you disagree with. Note that feedback topics regarding specific warnings or incidents will be removed, with the poster being referred to the moderation dispute system.

Time and time again we've seen people seemingly go out of their way to try and work up a massive storm of drama over extremely mundane and clean-cut warnings. It's okay to be upset about a warning, but it's not okay to take to the public airwaves to rant and rave about them.

 

To reflect this policy, we've made the following change to our global rules:

 

 

Formal Warnings

Misconduct will be punished in accordance with our formal warning system.

Warnings are between you and the staff. Whining, complaining, and/or attempting to stir up drama over a warning is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated. If you have an issue with a warning given by a staff member, you are encouraged to submit the warning for administrative review via a moderation dispute.

 

 

Furthermore, the FAQ item regarding moderation disputes has been renamed to "I've received an unfair warning / How do I appeal warnings?" and now contains the following text:

 

 

If you've received a warning that you do not believe is valid, please contact the administration about it via a moderation dispute support ticket, so that the matter can be investigated - all disputes are given a thorough review and are judged on a case by case basis. Only members of the MLP Forums administration team are able to view mod disputes; all details of which are kept strictly confidential - moderators are not made aware of specific complaints against them. 

In the event that a warning has been found to have been given in error, the warning will be overturned and erased. Moderators that have been found to repeatedly provide invalid warnings and/or abuse their privileges in any way will be punished accordingly.

Moderation dispute tickets are the only appropriate location to discuss warnings that have been received - forum threads, status updates, blog posts, and all similar venues are not acceptable places to dispute, complain about, or otherwise discuss warnings - doing so in such places will result in warning points being applied to your account, at an amount to be determined by the administration on a case-by-case basis.

When writing a mod dispute remember to keep your cool - if we receive harassing, abusive, rude, or similarly derogatory disputes we will deny it and add additional points for abusive behavior. Remember that everyone on the staff is a human being and a pony fan, just like you - we may not agree on all matters, but ultimately we are here to help you and to ensure that the community remains a positive place for pony talk. We're here to help, but we're not going to waste our time with people that are more interested in yelling at us than they are in discussing matters in a reasonable fashion.

 

 

The snippet requesting people to keep their cool was added following a number of very passionate moderation disputes we've received in recent months. Remember - the abusive behavior rule is applicable just as much to members of the staff as it is other members of the forum. TL;DR: Please don't yell at me and call me mean names.

 

---

 

With all of that fun business out of the way, the following FAQ entries have been added:

• Can I revive old threads?
• How do I submit a banner?
• Why hasn't the banner been changed?

And, finally... the following has been added to the rules:

 

 

Users under thirteen are prohibited from joining MLP Forums. Due to legalities concerning children and their online protection, as well as our own desire to keep any content that parents could find potentially objectionable away from their children, we must enforce this rule rather strictly. More can be read on this rule, here.

 

 

Truth be told this isn't actually anything new per se, we've had a policy against under thirteen registrations for quite some time now, it was simply never reflected in our rules. 

[SCS 7,459]

Thanks for adding these new points to the rules, I agree with them completely. From my experience being a moderator on another website for several months, it's really not fun to have members publicly complaining and belittling the forum staff. It just takes the energy out of you after awhile. It's much better to discuss these sorts of disputes in a calm, civilized manner, which results in all parties being satisfied. 

[Clarity 3,094]

One question: Is it okay to say something like, "Shoot, I got 15 warning points :(" which is just a shout-out to the user's friends and not really a complaint?

[Twiliscael 3,960]

Thank the Gods. I'm tired of seeing people complaining about the silliest little things because they made some willful and rash decision to post something inappropriate to the conversation or in general. All in all, just don't be a dumabss, follow the rules, and we'll all be okay. And if you're going to break the rules, take the punishment and agree to it. Has Socrates taught us nothing?

[Fizz. 1,078]

So is this a stop-judging-us-and-making-us-look-bad case, or a stop-causing-drama? I feel like it's both.

 

 

Anyway, there goes another thing for me to complain about. Oh well, it's a smart enough call to make. Gg mod staff, you win this round.

[Scootalove 10,685]

Well the new rules & FAQ changes aren't bad at all. But, I can tell people are going to try to complain about this.

I find that, people will complain about anything. Anyway, great job staff.

[Zoop 8,384]

It's much better to discuss these sorts of disputes in a calm, civilized manner, which results in all parties being satisfied. 

 

 

 

Eeyup. Besides, you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar. 

 

 

One question: Is it okay to say something like, "Shoot, I got 15 warning points :(" which is just a shout-out to the user's friends and not really a complaint?

 

 

 

Honestly, for the sake of consistency I'd say that such things should really be avoided for two reasons:

 

• If we allow User A's "aw, shoot" statement to stand, while User B's gets removed for whatever reason, it opens the door to unnecessary claims of bias and favoritism.
• It's a leading statement - people are likely going to create a discussion around it, which would then defeat the point of keeping warnings private. 

Soooo... completely private, I'd say.

 

 

So is this a stop-judging-us-and-making-us-look-bad case, or a stop-causing-drama? I feel like it's both.

 

 

 

This falls squarely under "stop-causing-drama" - I very honestly don't think that any of the minor explosions we've witnessed on occasion have any significant impact on the forum's (or the moderation team's) overall reputation.

 

 

But, I can tell people are going to try to complain about this.

 

 

 

Some complaints are to be expected, though I'm fairly confident that most people will see the sense behind the changes. This place isn't meant to be a drama pit, after all.

[Starshine 16,330]

First off: it is no longer permissible to complain about warnings and other moderator action on the public forum, status updates, or blog posts.

 

Hm... So we are not allowed to talk about any given warning points then? Say, if I want to discuss that 800 Warning Points for boobies is way too much, is that okay?

 

I'm a bit confused on the "Moderators' actions" part. Just what kind of actions here we are talking about? Can we openly discuss it when a mod moved/closed/deleted/merged/edited a thread or post?

 

How about the warning points that was given based on a rule that is never written anywhere on the site? Is discussion about that be forbidden too?

 

Anyway, kudos to whoever posted that banner faq, good job there

[3005 330]

Is this Soviet Russia? 

 

It disappoints me that rules of such mediocre nature have to be enforced. I don't understand why the staff can't be criticized for its actions. I was under the assumption that being a part of the staff automatically equalled maturity that would allow staff members to rise above "drama" and ignore it. I can understand certain rules to try and maintain order, but this goes over the line in becoming far too controlling. 

 

Does this count as a violation of this new rule?

[Zoop 8,384]

Hm... So we are not allowed to talk about any given warning points then? Say, if I want to discuss that 800 Warning Points for boobies is way too much, is that okay?

 

 

It's only specific warnings we're worried about - feedback topics about the warning point values associated with various warnings are fine. 

 

I'm a bit confused on the "Moderators' actions" part. Just what kind of actions here we are talking about? Can we openly discuss it when a mod moved/closed/deleted/merged/edited a thread or post?

 

 

The focus of all of this is squarely on warnings - I've adjusted my initial post to better reflect that. Thanks for bringing that up!

 

How about the warning points that was given based on a rule that is never written anywhere on the site? Is discussion about that be forbidden too?

 

Something of that sort would be best brought up with the administration via a moderation dispute ticket. Technically, warnings can be given for just about anything (see: Feldian clause), but we tend to avoid doing that unless there's a very good reason for it. 

 

I'd be very interested in knowing if people are getting warnings for things that aren't actually against the rules. 

 

Anyway, kudos to whoever posted that banner faq, good job there

 

That would be NC and Vexx.  

 

Is this Soviet Russia?

 

No, this is a privately owned and operated website.

 

It disappoints me that rules of such mediocre nature have to be enforced. I don't understand why the staff can't be criticized for its actions. I was under the assumption that being a part of the staff automatically equalled maturity that would allow staff members to rise above "drama" and ignore it. I can understand certain rules to try and maintain order, but this goes over the line in becoming far too controlling. 

 

 

I think you're confusing "criticism" with "ranting, raving, and drama mongering"

 

Quite frankly, if someone wants to criticize us they're free to do so - we have a feedback board in which we welcome and respond to criticism, and an entire system by which people can bring anonymous criticism regarding our moderation team directly to the site administration. Don't agree with something that the staff is doing? Take it to people that can actually do something to address the situation and change it.

 

Criticism? Good stuff - dissent is an important thing; what good are 'yes men' to anyone? Raging drama in response to what is commonly a minor act by a moderator? No - and you'll be hard pressed to find many worthwhile sites that will tolerate that.

 

Does this count as a violation of this new rule?

 

Nope. Criticism is, after all, perfectly fine.

[Typhoid Libby 1,265]

...

It is human nature to seek culpability in the time of tragedy.

Inevitably many shall fault the hand that did this act.

It is a sign of strenght to cry against fate rather than bow one's head and succumb. 

But the Inquisition merely performs the duty of it's office. 

To further fear them is redundant, to hate them, heretical.

Those more sensible will place the responsibility with those who forced the hands of the Inquisition.

With some fortune, they may foster this hatred into purpose, and further rule their own fate by coming to the Emperors service.

...

[Starshine 16,330]

It's only specific warnings we're worried about - feedback topics about the warning point values associated with various warnings are fine.

So, whining is a big no, but discussing is still fine? Sounds like a good deal to me :­p

I'm kinda afraid what the poster might see as a criticism, a mod will see it as a whining post.

 

Anyway, how many warning points I would get if I scream around about my warning points?

 

The focus of all of this is squarely on warnings - I've adjusted my initial post to better reflect that. Thanks for bringing that up!

 

So should someone publicly questioned the moderating team's action (or maybe lack thereof) on something, as long as it's not really related to warning points whatsoever, it's cool?

(example: mods taking too long to cleanse a thread from OOT posts)

 

I'd be very interested in knowing if people are getting warnings for things that aren't actually against the rules.

That's the weird things here. I've seen two cases where people are not allowed to post anything that "effectively breaks the forum tables" or something like that, but I've searched the FAQs and the global rules, there is no clause or anything that forbid things like that.

 

Blaming vague things like that on the Feldian clause feels a bit too far-fetched. Is it possible to add some footnotes about breaking the forum's tables (or maybe other minor bug-abusing things) on the FAQ or somewhere else? :­o

 

It disappoints me that rules of such mediocre nature have to be enforced. I don't understand why the staff can't be criticized for its actions.

It's more about "don't raise hell for that 15 warning points" rather than "your words are meaningless to us, we are mods" in my opinion.

[MadDoggyca 710]

2 cents in. Its rather hard to some times fill 100 characters for a post. it should be revised to something like 10 or 20 at most.

 

When a member asks a question in a given thread, some times it only take a few words to answer it. which can lead to 60+ characters remaining. what is one suppose to do? make the answer or post more complicated then it needs to be just to fill in the extra required characters?

 

at lest with 10 or 20 minimal characters you still keep people from posting lame/garbage posts such as

 

lol

1+

lmfao.
you made bro / u mad bro

 

and other useless reply's

 

 

also I had a thread once disusing about a topic that didn't even involve a warning. (had to do with a Avatar) and few post later it was auto closed? was up with that.. Iv had a few threads get auto closed after a few post in the thread.. never understood that, in fact I wish it would stop doing that, its getting old quick.

Edited January 24, 2013 by NewCalamity
As the OP states, do not share your warning history with others.

[Bronium 512]

 

As the OP states, do not share your warning history with others.

 

 

I don't share it with just anyone, but can't I share it with a few personal friends? I mean, like 1 or 2 people. Even if it's just to discuss. 

 

Basically, can I rant about the points as a PM to a friend on the forums?

[Shanks 10,811]

I don't really understand why anyone would want to complain about warning points in the first place, exactly what do they think is going to be accomplished? Getting warning points is not fun, but come on people sometimes an issue just needs to die. As someone who was a moderator on another site I can tell you that being a moderator sometimes means being the "bad guy" which is not fun and becomes even less fun when members insult you for it.

[Batbrony 15,994]

Fine by me, never had to complain about the couple of warnings I've ever gotten before, they were totally legit, and if you've got a complaint, that's between you and the moderator.  Oh, and good on you guys for finally writing the noponies 13 or under into the actual rules of the site; nice to see that policy legitimized. 

 

A question though, Zoop, if I may; is it alright if we ever apologize in a status update or blog about something we did that warranted and received a warning?  Ya know, just to get it out there to the community that we regret whatever we did that warranted the warning in the first place, especially if it were something particularly controversial, divisive, or inflammatory?

[Prismatic 49]

From my experience moderating a brony community whenever a user complains about various warnings it's either omitting a part of the story or as posted above me trying to effectively make the staff the bad guy (i.e. myself).

 

All that comes to mind is that what's past is past and as long as the warning is clear, understood by the user and from what I'm reading if said keeps out of trouble their points will slowly go back down to zero.

 

It's always been poor etiquette to complain about what staff does in public and from what I remember it's been that way for years.  The only suggestion that comes to mind is that as long as said moderator replies to the tickets issued then at least it's done effectively.

[Alex Kennedy 1,228]

I don't share it with just anyone, but can't I share it with a few personal friends? I mean, like 1 or 2 people. Even if it's just to discuss. 

 

Basically, can I rant about the points as a PM to a friend on the forums?

Why is it necessary for you to do that? Ranting about them won't make them go away, and frankly I don't think anyone really wants to hear about how unfair you think the warnings you got were.

[Prismatic 49]

Why is it necessary for you to do that? Ranting about them won't make them go away, and frankly I don't think anyone really wants to hear about how unfair you think the warnings you got were.

 

Many users seek comfort in those situations with their friends or just has to rant about it.  That's always been the situation I recall when I used to mess around on a few forums (many, many years ago) that people complained about how unfair the rules are.

[Alex Kennedy 1,228]

Many users seek comfort in those situations with their friends or just has to rant about it.  That's always been the situation I recall when I used to mess around on a few forums (many, many years ago) that people complained about how unfair the rules are.

Yeah, I know it's perfectly common, but that doesn't make it any less asinine. If it bothers you that much, buy a punching bag and work your anger out on that. 

[chattydash 62]

i agree i had warning points but i was fine about it if you dont want them follow the rules its the only way as of the under13 ban it is a shame because some of the best posters and RPers are under 13 but rules are rules but i hope they join when they are 14 it will be a shame if they dont also what if you are already 13 and on the site will you get banned or will you login get locked until you are 14 or something thanks for reading sorry for the wall of text

[Clarity 3,094]

 

i agree i had warning points but i was fine about it if you dont want them follow the rules its the only way as of the under13 ban it is a shame because some of the best posters and RPers are under 13 but rules are rules but i hope they join when they are 14 it will be a shame if they dont also what if you are already 13 and on the site will you get banned or will you login get locked until you are 14 or something thanks for reading sorry for the wall of text

Under 13. Not 13 and under.

 

I'm 13, as many people here well know, and I haven't been banned yet. 

 

OT: As for the new rule, I have some doubts now. We aren't even allowed to complain in private messages? I find it helpful when talking to my friends about just receiving warning points. In many of my statuses with @Lightning Fluttershy, we just talk about different things but I would just slip in "just got a warning from so and so mod" and he'll just react, then we'll go on. We can't do that anymore? Not even talk about it?

[Shiki 5,854]

This is actually something I, for once, kind of disagree with. Or, perhaps not disagree, but I remain skeptical. 

 

I can understand, though. I remember calmly talking about my warning points, before, and it was not I who got mad, but it was the other person whom I was explaining things to that did so. I suppose this can be a good thing, as a whole, but I'm still a little uneasy about the fact that I'm being limited on what it is others and me can and cannot speak about. However, I digress. I've put my trust in the moderation in this site before, and things have worked out smoothly, so I'm going to nod my head and go along with it, and assume things are for the best, this way. 

[Starshine 16,330]

Anyway, how many warning points I would get if I scream around about my warning points?

Seems like my question up there would remain unanswered :x

 

I'm not trying to be picky or anything, but we need a clear guidelines on how many warning points someone should expect to receive when drama happens

[Key Gear 6,662]

I'm kinda afraid what the poster might see as a criticism, a mod will see it as a whining post.

Nah, I don't think that you need to worry about that. For example, there's plenty of criticism going on in this one thread. You have a good point here though, and I'd like to address it fully. Please keep reading this post, and I hope to be able to explain things fully and completely.

 

I'm gong to be totally and completely honest with you. If MLP Forums ever disallowed criticism of the rules, then I would resign from my position. I was once a member of a community where the administration was insanely cruel about this. If you said something against the rules, then there would be a *BOOM* and you were hit with a suspension. Believe it or not, I got suspended there for a few weeks. I never came back.

 

An atmosphere of fear, a police state, is not something that we are interested in building. Just the thought of this kind of thing makes me completely ill.

Anyway, how many warning points I would get if I scream around about my warning points?

It depends on the exact nature of this screaming. In general, a profanity-laced tirade against the administration and staff would probably not be the best way of going about things. A string of status updates with a picture of your warning and some derogatory text included would also not be very efficient. Now, if your "screaming" consisted of a wall of text mod dispute, then that is actually fantastic and you are likely to make some solid progress. In other words, it really is not possible to say, but I think that simply following the rules and using the mod disputes area would go a long way.

So should someone publicly questioned the moderating team's action (or maybe lack thereof) on something, as long as it's not really related to warning points whatsoever, it's cool?

(example: mods taking too long to cleanse a thread from OOT posts)

Well, yes, there is nothing wrong with this at all. If you think about it, this has never really been an issue. However, it is generally more efficient to use the reports feature to direct our attention to something directly. Most of the time, without a report, we may just have honestly missed something.

 

That's the weird things here. I've seen two cases where people are not allowed to post anything that "effectively breaks the forum tables" or something like that, but I've searched the FAQs and the global rules, there is no clause or anything that forbid things like that.

 

Blaming vague things like that on the Feldian clause feels a bit too far-fetched. Is it possible to add some footnotes about breaking the forum's tables (or maybe other minor bug-abusing things) on the FAQ or somewhere else? :­o

Actually, breaking the forum tables is already well covered. It would fall under making quality posts. If a post breaks the forum layout, then I think that we could both agree that this post is not a quality post. (Especially some of the cases that I have seen, where the page is literally exponentially increased in size by a single post filled with mountains of whitespace. Talk about low quality content.)

A question though, Zoop, if I may; is it alright if we ever apologize in a status update or blog about something we did that warranted and received a warning?  Ya know, just to get it out there to the community that we regret whatever we did that warranted the warning in the first place, especially if it were something particularly controversial, divisive, or inflammatory?

I'm not Zoop, but I can answer this question. (However, it is worth noting that we both have a stunning lack of hair.)

 

Yes, it is always alright to apologize for doing something wrong.

Basically, can I rant about the points as a PM to a friend on the forums?

OT: As for the new rule, I have some doubts now. We aren't even allowed to complain in private messages? I find it helpful when talking to my friends about just receiving warning points. In many of my statuses with Lightning Fluttershy, we just talk about different things but I would just slip in "just got a warning from so and so mod" and he'll just react, then we'll go on. We can't do that anymore? Not even talk about it?

The domain of this rule extends over the public areas of the site. As I said earlier, we aren't starting up a police state here. Random moderators are not going to suddenly appear in your private conversation to discuss warning points. This would be both incredibly awkward for all parties involved, and it would also be basically impossible to pull off from the tech side.

 

However, I would like to question the point of complaining about a warning via private message. Think about it. You are using valuable energy that could be used to write up a thorough and detailed mod dispute. A mod dispute is not just a way to argue about a warning, it is also a way to immediately open a dialogue with the highest authorities on the site. Your mod dispute isn't just accepted or dismissed. It will be replied to with all relevant points explained and there will be possible further Clarification. After that, a decision will be made based on the facts that have been presented.

 

When you complain in a private message, you are focusing on the negative aspect - the warning points. What you aren't focusing on is a solution to your own complaint. Think about it from another angle. You are probably complaining because perhaps you didn't see what you did wrong? Or, maybe you think that the warning was completely unjustified. You probably wouldn't bother complaining if you believed that everything was completely fine and that the warning is justified. Right? Well, that's where the mod dispute area should come in.

 

Some folks in this thread seem to feel that mod disputes are a way of "silencing criticism". That is completely and totally incorrect. If we wanted to silence criticism, then we would not have a Feedback and Suggestions area and we would not have announcements that are open for comment. Instead, we would have no area for feedback, and we would lock threads like this one as soon as we posted them. In addition to that, we would not write these walls of text to respond to member questions. Now, *that* would be silencing criticism, and the thought of it makes me ill.

 

Mod disputes were not created to silence criticism. Mod disputes were created to actually give members the power to appeal warnings, both anonymously and directly to administration. A mod dispute is not just a "dispute", it is an opportunity for users to be informed as to the exact missteps. It is also an opportunity for the administration to be informed about the possible missteps of a moderator.

 

When a user rants in a private message instead of opening a mod dispute to get information on and a possible rollback of a warning, they are actually just building an atmosphere of paranoia around themselves and the other users that they are communicating to via private message. Rather than giving the administration a chance to explain and possibly address a misunderstanding, they are, instead, going to simply describe the incident as a failure of impartiality and a failure of the administration.

 

In other words, a user that chooses private messages instead of simply opening a mod dispute is burning energy and fueling negativity over warning points that may, legitimately, have been due to a misunderstanding. Why not try to get the misunderstanding resolved, instead? Because, to me, ranting about failures in administration when not using the avenues available to resolve an issue is just like ranting about the cold temperatures outside when you have a perfectly working heater that is simply not being turned on.

 

---

 

Now that I've answered some questions, I would like to discuss the rule, itself. Here's the thing, complaining about a warning in a private message is unproductive, as I just explained. However, complaining about a warning right here on the site, itself, is even more counter productive. You see, it carries the strong possibility of turning the entire site into a shooting gallery by forcing members and staff to "choose sides".

I can understand, though. I remember calmly talking about my warning points, before, and it was not I who got mad, but it was the other person whom I was explaining things to that did so.

Really, this is the entire reason that this rule was created. It is extremely difficult for a user to convey the complete circumstances surrounding a warning in a way that can be understood, equally completely, by every single member that reads it. This leads directly towards situations where members, not having the full picture, are ready to take up their tar and feathers and march against "bias" and "corruption". The interesting thing is that... All of the while this drama is happening, the solution to the member's problem is just sitting there unused. A mod dispute should be your first course of action. While a rant may make you feel better temporarily, it does not address your concern, and the negative feelings will remain.

 

Open a mod dispute. Please, talk with us. We honestly don't bite.