Going Vegetarian

[MrMammal 157]

I am not entering this debate. I am stating my opinion and leaving because these discussions turn into  pointless rambling and repeating each other over and over, which bores me, so I will say my bit and leave.

People need to calm down in this thread. Thoae accusing the OP of being arrogant and aggressive are as well.

My friend just recently became a vegetarian and stopped cold turkey (no pun intended) on eating meat, then totally failed and had a bunch of problems.
It's best to ease into it-I didn't eat red meats so it was easier for me to, since I only had fish and occasionally fowl. If you just jump into it can be bad for you. Just for anyone considering.

People love to argue and debate over things. Why not let it be about food and diets (with some morals of killing plants animals and whatever else). Better than other things IMO.

 

I think we should all agree there are upsides to both sides. Vegetarian and not both have their own upsides and downsides. You have to be blind to think that there is one perfect option for everything or even just something like a diet. Why not point out positives instead of just going after flaws. Better reactions come from educated and calm responses with key points and lots of smiley faces

[NeuroTypical 64]

I usually have no problem with people's dietary choices.  There are certainly lots of health benefits to be gained by reducing/eliminating some things, and adding/focusing on other things.

 

In my life, I've heard a few illogical or factually inaccurate statements about why people make their choices.  (I've sort of skimmed this thread and haven't seen any of them here.)

 

When people advocate eating only things taken from earth in ways that do not involve violence, I see what a combiner does to a wheat field in my mind.

 

When a guy told me I'm whacked because I listen to the lying evil doctors in the US, I looked at his low-birth-weight child who was shorter than healthy and looking malnourished.

 

When my friend threw an absolute fit at a Greek festival when she saw a pig roasting on a spit, I reminder her where her hamburger lunch came from.

[wolfheartmoon 107]

except, many fruits/vegetables WANT to be eaten. it's how their seeds are spread, and dirt doesn't feel pain. Or if it does there is zilch indication of that.

[ShadowRose2k 270]

except, many fruits/vegetables WANT to be eaten. it's how their seeds are spread, and dirt doesn't feel pain. Or if it does there is zilch indication of that.

 

 

I read this and for some reason it reminded me of "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"     Where in our cast is ordering a meal at the Restraunt at the End of the Universe and they meet the meat.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=niOm01dEzzI

 

One of my favorite books by far.  Along Side the Myst books and the works of Edgar Alen Poe.

Edited May 3, 2013 by ShadowRose2k

[Circadian 1,273]

Okay so I just saw a thread on Reddit about the Korean dog meat trade and fuck all y'all. I'm sticking to my guns here because I think that someday in the future people will look back on this shit like we do on the holocaust. We condemn the dog meat trade without hesitation because dogs are viewed as companions in our society yet pigs are way more intelligent to dogs and we do the same to them. 

 

I let not wanting people being pissed off about this topic cloud my vision. My apologies. 

Edited May 28, 2013 by Circadian

[An Old Head 4,815]

Okay so I just saw a thread on Reddit about the Korean dog meat trade and fuck all y'all. I'm sticking to my guns here because I think that someday in the future people will look back on this shit like we do on the holocaust. We condemn the dog meat trade without hesitation because dogs are viewed as companions in our society yet pigs are way more intelligent to dogs and we do the same to them. 

 

people will look back on this shit like we do on the holocaust. 

 

like we do on the holocaust. 

 

I honestly cannot believe you just compared eating meat to the mass gassing of Jews. Unless you didn't intend to, which I sorely hope you didn't.

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

I honestly cannot believe you just compared eating meat to the mass gassing of Jews. Unless you didn't intend to, which I sorely hope you didn't.

 

Compare eating meat to the holocaust? No. Compare U.S. and Korean Slaughter Houses? I sure as fuck did. Have you seen what goes on in the Korean Slaughter Houses? Where they hang dogs to death and boil puppies alive? It's messed up. 

[An Old Head 4,815]

Compare eating meat to the holocaust? No. Compare U.S. and Korean Slaughter Houses? I sure as fuck did. Have you seen what goes on in the Korean Slaughter Houses? Where they hang dogs to death and boil puppies alive? It's messed up.

 

I have indeed, and I'm just going to re-quote what I said earlier in this topic (it got ignored unfortunately)

 

I also genuinely think the actual cruelty of the entire meat farming thing is very misconstrued. There are documentaries floating around that show horribly low-grade slaughterhouses, but people then think that all meat production is the same as that.

 

I saw the Reddit thread too, and it's exactly as above. I was also thinking of From Farm To Fridge.

 

Also a general question of interest to vegetarians: would you ever eat lab-created synthetic meat? Or would it still remind you of a farmed animal, even though no animals were harmed?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Flipturn ツ

[Pripyat Pony 2,608]

I'd personally prefer it if NOTHING was compared to the Holocaust, if you don't mind. My father is Jewish and it really hits home with me, especially seeing as there were actual family members who died as a result. I'm asking nicely here, please don't compare anything with one of the worst genocides in human history with meat proccessing, even Korean dog processing.

 

Back on topic: I have an aunt and uncle who are vegetarian. However, we get on well purely cuz they never try and force their beliefs on their meat eating relatives. Basically, if you're veggie, then fine. Good for you. If I'm cooking dinner for you, I will make my special multiveg tortilini, which even carnies like. However, don't try and force it down my throat or push for me to change my diet just to suit you. I don't actually eat that much red meat; I mostly stick to white meat like chicken, cuz it's cheaper.

 

Finally... this video, you don't have to take seriously. XD

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAXY5d3Joho

[Evilshy 5,089]

I have no problem with dog meat. It's like any other meat, our culture simply places higher value on dogs, so a lot of people see it as repugnant.

 

I do have a problem with such cruel practices, but as has been said, not all meat comes from places like that. And it's not going to stop me enjoying meat. And anyway, you can't really find out exactly where your meat came from.

[Cuhpcakes 15]

Make sure you're getting the essential vitamins and minerals:

 

www.naturalnews.com/023182_vitamins_natural_deficiency.html

 

People say I'm a vegetarian, I disagree. I didn't change my eating habits to fullfil a label created by others or to be praised. I change my habits to express my compassion towards all living beings, I wouldn't even kill a mosquito if it was biting me.

 

All life is sacred and no life is more valuable than another's. I am grateful for the many lives I may have consumed for supplying me with life.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Cuhpcakes

[~Starlight~ 764]

Are people still arguing? I am a vegetarian and I am the right weight for a person my height and age. I do quite a bit of sport, I don't run out of breath easily. So people  who are complaining try it. Also quorn is amazing!!! Because you can do so much! So please I am not being mean for you eating meat, so how about you don't be mean to people who don't! Thank you!

Oh yeah and have anyone heard of the horse scandals, and in china right now they have found traces of rat meat in foods. But personally I don't care whether or not you are a veggie or not, we are allowed to do what we want right?

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

Well, being that I don't pay for my own food, I take whatever's given to me.

 

Though if I had to choose between raising cattle or growing vegetables to feed myself and my family, it'd be vegetables hands down. There's so much that can be grown within a given amount of space and if you look at it as the amount of solar energy from photosynthesis going to your body when you eat it, it is MUCH more efficient to eat vegetables than meat. Not only that, cattle require a lot of space and it tends to be a whole lot messier to cultivate in enclosed spaces. With technologies like

aquaponics, there's a lot you can grow in an enclosed space.

 

For eating meat to make sense to me, it'll first of all have to be a matter of eating versus letting it go to waste. Second, acquiring it would have to be done in a way that marginalizes the displacement of arable land (something that is scarce in my country) which could be put to better use growing vegetables. This would be in the context of poor soil where little other than grass and cacti could grow. That meat would have to be taken from that arid ecology in a rate that doesn't threaten populations. It would make meat a sort of occasional luxury and I'd be fine with that.

[Cuhpcakes 15]

What? I'm okay with dairy and eggs. That's a standard vegetarian.

 

 

Yup. I do not eat anything with gelatin, because it is made from boiled animal bones and tendons that are ground up into a powder.

 

 

That's nice, but that doesn't make it meat.

You are a standard vegetarian? That's funny, I'm certain dairy isn't a vegetable. Cows and chickens are abused in inhuman conditions just so humans can get a terrible product; which is then treated with hazordous chemicals and hormones so that humans can consume it without getting sick.

 

It's alright if you eat dairy, I couldn't care less. I'm just curious why you care so much about the title vegetarian when you obviously aren't one.

 

Also, I started off by not eating any animal byproducts besides dairy and honey, but after realizing how much I care about others I changed my diet. It wasn't difficult nor pricey.

 

Why do you care about being known as a vegetarian? Isn't the fact that you're against consuming animals enough?

Edited May 30, 2013 by Cuhpcakes

[Circadian 1,273]

You are a standard vegetarian? That's funny, I'm certain dairy isn't a vegetable. Cows and chickens are abused in inhuman conditions just so humans can get a terrible product; which is then treated with hazordous chemicals and hormones so that humans can consume it without getting sick.

 

You're thinking of a vegan, not a vegetarian. I only buy eggs and dairy from places I know animals aren't tortured (free range). Try to know what you're talking about trying to poke holes in my moral stance.   It would have taken literally a second of research. 

Edited May 30, 2013 by Circadian

[Cuhpcakes 15]

You're thinking of a vegan, not a vegetarian. I only buy eggs and dairy from places I know animals aren't tortured (free range). Try to know what you're talking about trying to poke holes in my moral stance. It would have taken literally a second of research.

You're talking about a Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian. Nowadays these vegetarian "titles" are a bit questionable.

 

Pestca(I forgot the name)?Vegetarian don't eat any animal by product besides fish. Really, fish? Fish bleed like us and plot the same goal as us. To desperately survive in this life, this cruel life. Oh, I know you have heard of this. Vegetarians who eat poultry, such as chicken and duck.

 

Why are you so proud of your "vegetarian status?" You shouldn't be a good person to earn something, you should be a good person just because it's the right thing to do.

 

Sorry if I sounded a bit cruel, I don't mean to comes off as a jerk. Will you forgive me?

[Wolffie 212]

The biggest argument FOR meat, is that it is delicious.

 

Truly, giving up good food is not worth saving a few animal lives.

 

I am looking forward to lab grown meat, however, because I feel that if it is not needed to slaughter animals to get flavor, why not save a few lives?

[Circadian 1,273]

 

 

You're talking about a Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian.

 

Yeah, I'm an Lacto-Ovo. I usually just say "vegetarian" though because to me "vegetarian" refers to somebody that doesn't eat meat.  

 

 

 

Pestca(I forgot the name)?Vegetarian don't eat any animal by product besides fish. Really, fish? Fish bleed like us and plot the same goal as us. To desperately survive in this life, this cruel life. Oh, I know you have heard of this. Vegetarians who eat poultry, such as chicken and duck.

 

Yup, I've heard of that. It's ridiculous is what it is.  

 

By the way, have you ever heard of the Paleolithic diet? If I ever for some reason went back to eating meat, that would be what I'd do.

[Raiden21 804]

I don't think I can ever be a vegetarian. I'm not a big fan of vegetarians since the only ones I met kept yelling at me when I was trying to eat my burger but I am sure that they were just a small minority. I could not give up on meat because it tastes good and I have a lot of good family memories where meat was involved. I do have to give props to vegetarians, just don't start yelling "meat is murder" in my face.

[applelatch 44]

I'll put my two cents in, I believe in eating meat, if you spend time in nature you realize animals eat each other. It's already been said, but I'll go further by saying you must respect life, does that mean you should never eat anything organic? No, that's not how nature works, but you also shouldn't go around killing things because it's "fun", killing is never fun. What makes me sad is people are vegetarians because they don't want animals to suffer, but they have no true respect for life, they wouldn't hesitate to kill a roach, or snake, or spider. Sometimes it's just what must be done though, just earlier today I had to kill a water moccasin, my nephew and little cousins play around our creek so we kill poisonous snakes if we see them. When I killed it though I legitimately felt for it, anytime I have to end life I always ask forgiveness in my mind, even if it's a roach. I grew up around animals, we've taken care of injured owls, squirrels, bluejays, turtles, oppossums, you name it, and sometimes you can't help them and they die anyways, but we always tried. What I'm getting at is too many people nowdays are disconnected with the natural world and it's easy to do. There has to be balance, there's nothing wrong with taking from nature, only you have to give back as well and not many people do. If you choose to not eat meat, that's great, but it doesn't change anything. I'm loathe to quote Disney after something genuinely heartfelt, but it really is the circle of life. I always have trouble making sense when I type something longwinded so I hope that was coherent.

[Cuhpcakes 15]

I'll put my two cents in, I believe in eating meat, if you spend time in nature you realize animals eat each other. It's already been said, but I'll go further by saying you must respect life, does that mean you should never eat anything organic? No, that's not how nature works, but you also shouldn't go around killing things because it's "fun", killing is never fun. What makes me sad is people are vegetarians because they don't want animals to suffer, but they have no true respect for life, they wouldn't hesitate to kill a roach, or snake, or spider. Sometimes it's just what must be done though, just earlier today I had to kill a water moccasin, my nephew and little cousins play around our creek so we kill poisonous snakes if we see them. When I killed it though I legitimately felt for it, anytime I have to end life I always ask forgiveness in my mind, even if it's a roach. I grew up around animals, we've taken care of injured owls, squirrels, bluejays, turtles, oppossums, you name it, and sometimes you can't help them and they die anyways, but we always tried. What I'm getting at is too many people nowdays are disconnected with the natural world and it's easy to do. There has to be balance, there's nothing wrong with taking from nature, only you have to give back as well and not many people do. If you choose to not eat meat, that's great, but it doesn't change anything. I'm loathe to quote Disney after something genuinely heartfelt, but it really is the circle of life. I always have trouble making sense when I type something longwinded so I hope that was coherent.

Are humans narurally omnivores? That's all up to debate but humans have lived long and successful lives without the need of animals, even in the past there were tribes who lived off fruit and vegetables.

 

The point of changing to a vegetarian diet is to express compassion for others.

 

Humans cruely enslave creatures just for greed not survival, creatures and critters aren't lesser beings than us.

 

Humans don't need meat to be healthy, they don't need silk for survival and they definately don't need to use creatures as test subjects.

 

The argument always ends up like this:

 

Vegetarian - I will not harm another's life because I care

 

Omnivore - I will eat meat because it tastes good and it keeps me alive.

 

So, just because an animal tastes good you should eat it? The idea of harming another just for luxury is a bit... devious.

 

As for what you said, sure some creatures can ONLY live on an omnivore diet; but humans aren't one of them.

 

As for humans being omnivores, that's a bit rediculous. We don't have razor-sharp teeth or claws:

http://whitney05.hubpages.com/hub/not-created-to-eat-meat

 

Even if we were created to be strictly omnivore, I'll still continue my animal restricted diet because I will not eat innocent flesh for survival.

 

health.usnews.com/best-diet/vegetarian-diet

Edited May 30, 2013 by Cuhpcakes

[applelatch 44]

Are humans narurally omnivores? That's all up to debate but humans have lived long and successful lives without the need of animals, even in the past there were tribes who lived off fruit and vegetables.

 

The point of changing to a vegetarian diet is to express compassion for others.

 

Humans cruely enslave creatures just for greed not survival, creatures and critters aren't lesser beings than us.

 

Humans don't need meat to be healthy, they don't need silk for survival and they definately don't need to use creatures as test subjects.

 

The argument always ends up like this:

 

Vegetarian - I will not harm another's life because I care

 

Omnivore - I will eat meat because it tastes good and it keeps me alive.

 

So, just because an animal tastes good you should eat it? The idea of harming another just for luxury is a bit... devious.

 

As for what you said, sure some creatures can ONLY live on an omnivore diet; but humans aren't one of them.

 

As for humans being omnivores, that's a bit rediculous. We don't have razor-sharp teeth or claws:

http://whitney05.hubpages.com/hub/not-created-to-eat-meat

 

Even if we were created to be strictly omnivore, I'll still continue my animal restricted diet because I will not eat innocent flesh for survival.

 

health.usnews.com/best-diet/vegetarian-diet

Do you kill roaches? Termites? other "pests"? do you kill a spider when one creeps across your arm? Do you use lumber stripped from the woods to build your home? Do you buy things made in other countries by exploited workers? Do not claim vegetarians are the only ones with compassion. I know that animals are treated badly before being processed into food, and it breaks my heart, but so does the fact that people rape the land for resources. Any time you shop at a store, you may not be buying the meat, but you're giving money to the companies that do the slaughtering so they can continue the cycle. Do you know what would benefit the animals more? Lobbying to pass stricter laws about the treatment of animals in slaughter houses and animals raised for produce and meat. Even if the end game is to eliminate meat, it's a step in the right direction and alot more reasonable than just shutting all slaughterhouses down.

[Dark Moon 965]

Yes science to the rescue.  (Theory, really good theory) We wouldn't even be humans without eating other animals. We have our advanced brains because of our ancestor's diet of clams, frogs, bird eggs and fish from shoreline/swamp environments. Prehistoric Ethiopia(cradle of humanity) had such an environment. Anyways these are nutrient rich and stimulated brain development which lead to language and tool making. We are biologically omnivores but we can become vegetarian.  And to address why we don't have claws and large canines is because of the fact that we are bipedal which allows us to carry things and our ability to make tools. Claws and sharp teeth were no longer biologically necessary, there is more to explain about this but you can look it up if you want. That being said I think I'm on the road to becoming a vegetarian because we have this new option that most life does not have and this is the ability to reason. It is wrong to kill and we now have the option to not to. That being said I would still kill an invertebrate any day of the week. Those little bastards(haven't always been little) have been our enemy since the beginning.

 

 

Paleolithic diet

I'm going to try to shoot for this eventually if I don't go completely vegetarian, which is likely, I like fish. I might just stick to fish, try to stay away from mammals and birds. Fish are basically only one step up from invertebrates so I don't feel that bad.

 

Anyways all life is cruel. That's nature, not just a human invention. Things kill things all the time and not just for food. I'm probably not going all the way vegetarian, but I don't think less of those who are content with eating meat. It's your choice, not mine. It's in our nature so I don't frown upon it. 

Edited May 31, 2013 by Dark Moon

[Cuhpcakes 15]

Do you kill roaches? Termites? other "pests"? do you kill a spider when one creeps across your arm? Do you use lumber stripped from the woods to build your home? Do you buy things made in other countries by exploited workers? Do not claim vegetarians are the only ones with compassion. I know that animals are treated badly before being processed into food, and it breaks my heart, but so does the fact that people rape the land for resources. Any time you shop at a store, you may not be buying the meat, but you're giving money to the companies that do the slaughtering so they can continue the cycle. Do you know what would benefit the animals more? Lobbying to pass stricter laws about the treatment of animals in slaughter houses and animals raised for produce and meat. Even if the end game is to eliminate meat, it's a step in the right direction and alot more reasonable than just shutting all slaughterhouses down.

I could say I don't harm innocent creatures but that's a lie. Even my morning jog is bound to kill some beautiful insects, but it's not intentional. I don't purposely wish to harm others unless the situation makes it just.

 

I haven't purposely killed another ever since I changed my diet, I even yell at friends for attacking a mosquito, ant, roach, fly, spider etc.

 

I never said being vegetarian is the only way to express compassion, I simply stated why many choose to become one.

 

You're right about the proposition to end meat supply, it's irrational... need I explain why?

 

Don't get the wrong idea, I don't mean to bash you; I just wanted to explain why humans don't need animal by products for survival, they are just luxury(cheap, tasty to some, decorative).

 

Fighting for a cause to give creatures more humane living conditions is beautiful. I just don't abide by the social norm of using animal flesh because it's cruel.

 

How would you feel if you and your entire family were forced to live in a cage for your entire life just so others can eat you; while they can simply get the same nutrition from another source?

 

Many creatures who are slaughtered for meat are force fed MANY plants, an entire life time worth. So if one eats just one creatures, they are also eating millions of plants. Without plants, how would organisms obtain nutrition?

[Princess Periwinkle 3,774]

Okay, some people will probably get mad at what I'm about to say. Ah well, such is life.

 

I eat meat. If you don't eat meat because of the inhumane way the animals are treated then that's swell for you, but I don't really care what happens to the animal I'm eating. Before you tell me what a terrible person I am (and I'm fairly sure you now think less of me, I respect your reason for doing so), I just want to attempt to explain why. I am a human, and humans are obviously the dominant creature on this planet. You could argue that we are not suited to be the dominant species on this planet, that we are too cruel, but be honest: Any other animal put in our position would be no better. Does this give us the right to be as cruel as we want to other animals? Well... yes (that doesn't mean it's right, however). So after that bit of sympathizing, I want to mention the word "inhumane". I love it when people use that word to describe animal treatment. You know what the root of that word is? Human. Yes, the way we are treating those animals is inhumane, it's... animal.

 

If you want to treat animals better before you kill them then great, I'm glad you do. But if you don't it's not going to stop me from eating meat. By the way, if I did stop eating meat it's not going to stop the treatment.

 

Go ahead and tell me how evil I am. I choose to value humans over animals. Once we get human poverty and sickness sorted, I'll think about animals.

 

As a side note, every vegetarian I've ever met has been rather jerkish about the subject. It doesn't help me sympathize with them.