Okay, so I'm starting to think we put out a little too much content

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

Fanart, Fanfiction? Every fandom does that, no problem. Making and selling T-shirts, dolls and sculptures? We're large enough for that to work, so why not? Hosting over 5 Cons and meetups per year, producing/creating/funding our own animated spins on MLP....I'm starting to grow concerned.

 

None of this is peculiar to the MLP fandom.  There are fan-made live-action movies for Star Wars and Star Trek.  People can get teams together and create full-length original movies like Iron Sky funded by Kickstarter.  I think this is freaking awesome.  Even though most of the resulting creative output isn't awesome, the fact that ordinary people can produce and distribute it without the blessing of one of a handful of Hollywood studios or one of three (count 'em, three) television networks like in the "Good Old Days," is fantastic, IMO.  It means that a much greater portion of the creative potential of the human species is being unleashed. 

 

I've always enjoyed the better half of the fan content we put out, but now I'm starting to think that it's getting to be a little much. Won't be long until a group can make another show in the shadow of Hasbro and DHX and keep that going far past MLP's inevitable end. Now, I've been in fandoms where animations have been made, they're bound to happen. But they've never been so numerous and so perfect, so seamless.

 

And this is a bad thing, how?  To me this sounds like somebody saying, "I went into the book store the other day, and I'm tellin' ya, there were way too many different books in there, man!  And so many of them are well-written!  It was better back when there was just the Bible, Shakespeare, Mark Twain, and maybe Thoreau and Joyce for the coffeehouse hipsters."  I've read that only about a thousand people actually participated in the Renaissance, as in creating the art, literature, architecture and music that defines it.  Even if that's understating by an order of magnitude, I think it's pretty amazing that our little fandom for a cartoon probably has more participating creatives involved.

 

Add that to this growing mindset running rampant in the brony community that fanon ≥ canon and they(Show people) be twisting around to please us

 

I agree, I wouldn't want this to happen.  However, I think this problem would likely be an even greater danger if our only outlet for expressing our enjoyment of the show was as passive consumers buying merchandise.  In that scenario, Hasbro and DHX would be under more pressure to offer fan service via focus groups and marketing research in order to keep us buying.  As it is, fans who want there to be something like Double Rainboom or Snowdrop or Fallout: Equestria can go off and make and/or enjoy them on their own, and the main show doesn't have to compromise itself to appeal to those audiences. 

 

Consider the reverse case, the Star Wars franchise.  Here we have a set of movies designed to appeal to roughly the brony demographic (mostly adolescent and adult males), but with an important and lucrative secondary demographic: the kids who buy most of the toys.  Lucas "twisted around to please" that secondary demographic, and as a result we got Ewoks, Child!Vader, and Jar-Jar Binks.  Note that this took place in the complete absence of a creative community of child Star Wars fans making fan-films about 8-year-old Jedi kids saving the Galaxy by accident and coincidence accompanied by ridiculously clownish sidekicks.

 

I'm starting to feel a threat of rampant fan of the fandom elitism creeping across the interwebs.

 

So yeah, anyone else sharing my dread, or is it all unfounded?

 

Maybe I'm too new to the community to have encountered the "fandom elitism" you're talking about.  However, it seems to me that an "elite" of lots of fans making music, animations, fanfics, art, etc. is actually less elitist than the prior situation of "only professionals working for the company can do any of this stuff and present it to the world."  The opposite of "elitism" is "democratization," the spreading of participatory empowerment toward more and more people.  But isn't that what you're worrying about here?  So, I'm not quite following the continuity of your argument.

 

 

 

I think that we put too much stuff also. Now people are getting called faggots everywhere, on TV shows and stuff. We could've been more quiet enjoying MLP FiM, not telling all the world about it. Now when someone says that bronies and faggots or horrible creatures, it feels awkward being one that I want to stop. It's too much.

 

This is a flaw in society, particularly the haters you're talking about.  Why is it such a shock that adult men would like a show targeted toward little girls?  Nobody gets their knickers in a knot over adult female Transformers fans, or female Harry Potter fans who ship Harry and Draco in fanfics.  Why?  Because male entertainment is good for everybody, you see.  Men are the default humans.  Women are the sexually-desirable sorta-people that serve as prizes to be won by the real people, i.e., "the hero gets the girl."  This means that women should be accustomed to a universe of shows centered on male characters, with maybe one "chick" among the protagonists as a love interest or token (Harry Potter, The Avengers, Inception, etc., etc..).  We don't just assume that every woman who likes Thor only does so 'cause she thinks he's hot (even if many of them do); good [male-defaulted] entertainment is good entertainment. 

 

On the other hand, if a show is made for females, then it has cooties.  The only reason a Real Man^tm would watch a show like that ("a date movie" or "chick flick") is to get laid.  Because, obviously no show that isn't made for men could ever be good enough for men.  If a man actually enjoys a show that's not male-defaulted, clearly there's something wrong with him and he shouldn't be allowed in the treehouse.  And if the show is meant for little girls...*gasp!* *pearlcluch* *faint*  The male FiM demographic is shocking because, under the assumptions of "baseline misogyny," they're slumming.  Like billionaires who sneak into McDonalds when they could be having pheasant under glass at a fine restaurant.  And since the only reason men would stoop to watching "a show for girls" is to get laid...then they're either gays (i.e., infested with too many girl-cooties) or pedophiles.  Because we all know that little girls are idiots who would gobble up any saccharine glurge that's shoveled at them, as long as it's got enough ruffles, rainbows, and magic spaklies, amirite d00dz?

 

That's the rule that the FiM creative team decided to break, with extreme prejudice.  They created a show--for little girls, yes--but they treated that audience with enough respect to make a show for them that was actually good, with excellent animation and appealing story lines and likeable characters with depth and growth, and a living world for them to inhabit.  They treat girls as real people.  As a result, other sorts of real people, including men, also enjoy the show.  This, to my mind, is one of the truly great things about FiM, and the brony/pegasister community.

 

 

 

I'd prefer to have little fan works, but that are good!

 

The "crap to good stuff ratio" isn't just a problem for our community.  It's pretty much an issue for all creative endeavor.  Sturgeon's Law:

 

According to the NewHackersDictionary [JargonFile], science fiction author TheodoreSturgeon once said "Sure, 90% of science fiction is crud. That's because 90% of everything is crud." The law is almost always quoted with the word "crap", so that can be considered to be the common usage, but Sturgeon himself said "crud", so it depends on whether you want an exact quote or the common usage.

 

--Source

 

I'm sure there's lots of MLP fan-crap out there, but I'm quite impressed by the level of craft being produced for free by the brony community.  That lullaby Celestia sings for Luna (I don't remember the title, but the feels, man!)?  Fighting is Magic?  Heck, Motion Spark (a member on this Forum) has an animated OC avatar and signature that couldn't have been done by one person for such a casual purpose "when I was your age."  Yeah, he ought to get off my lawn.  But still, it's pretty cool.

 

 

 

I'm not the one to put my nose in others fetishes but grimdark fanfics make me think that we're blood sucking creatures. Or a few animations, like Double Rainboom, the animation was good, but the story didn't make me think it was so high art no. Also grimdark drawings and such. I don't mind, but, for crying out loud, there are 9year old kids watching MLP, and what do you think will happen if they find grimdark or pornography?

 

I haven't read any grimdark/horror FiM fanfics because FiM is where I go for a breather from the whole "gritty," grimdark trend of pretty much everything else.  So, I can't judge that segment of the creative output.  I do find it very mildly annoying when I see somebrony saying, "Oh, I hate this horrible crapsack world!  If only I could live in Equestria, where the ponies are so much better than we awful humans are!," but then I look at their avatar or signature and see a pony OC with a combat knife in its mouth and a vulcan cannon mounted on its back, with a soupcon of grit, grime, and dried bloodstains to complete the artistic effect.  But--whatever floats their boat.  I would much rather they have the opportunity to express themselves, and me the opportunity to not read their fanfic or join their RP of Doompocalypse Equestria, than for them not to have the opportunity to express themselves and be appreciated by an audience.

 

As for the pornography?  Rule 34 ("If it exists, there's porn of it") doesn't just affect FiM.  Besides, Bugs Bunny cross-dressed and shipped himself with his male adversaries in the show canon.  The only reason that isn't causing mass headsplosions is because Loony Toons became a "venerated classic" before there was such a thing as the internet. 

 

 

 

I have the feeling that back in the early days of the fandom (before I became a Brony, or for that matter even knew about it) were more intimate and light-spirited. As if everyone knew each other and Equestria Daily was just blooming, and the amount of fan content was very little.

 

If "It was so much better in the early days" isn't Somebody's Rule or Law, it ought to be.  Here's Greta Christina explaining why "the amazingness of atheists" is doomed.  Christians could say almost the exact same things she does, just substitute "Christian" and "believer" for "atheist" and "queer" (she compares the "coming out" of the New Atheist movement with the emergence of the openly gay community), and talk about the 1st Century instead of the 21st.  For Christians, "the early days" were illuminated by people like Paul, Peter, James, and John, and all those people who fearlessly went into the Colosseum to face lions.  The local church pot-luck pales in comparison.  Or talk to the fans of a band who were there when they were playing in bars and small dance clubs about how much better it was then, before the band (or even a whole genre, like punk) became a huge hit.

 

I know it's probably the opposite of the intent of many of the posters, but this thread actually gives me a boost of hope for the future, and makes me more proud to be a brony, not less. 

[Mzukiller 233]

 

 

I know it's probably the opposite of the intent of many of the posters, but this thread actually gives me a boost of hope for the future, and makes me more proud to be a brony, not less.

Gotta tell you. I have no idea how that happened.

 

 

And this is a bad thing, how? To me this sounds like somebody saying, "I went into the book store the other day, and I'm tellin' ya, there were way too many different books in there, man! And so many of them are well-written! It was better back when there was just the Bible, Shakespeare, Mark Twain, and maybe Thoreau and Joyce for the coffeehouse hipsters."

 

 

None of this is peculiar to the MLP fandom. There are fan-made live-action movies for Star Wars and Star Trek. People can get teams together and create full-length original movies like Iron Sky funded by Kickstarter. I think this is freaking awesome. Even though most of the resulting creative output isn't awesome, the fact that ordinary people can produce and distribute it without the blessing of one of a handful of Hollywood studios or one of three (count 'em, three) television networks like in the "Good Old Days," is fantastic, IMO. It means that a much greater portion of the creative potential of the human species is being unleashed.

No idea where you got that little strawman from, my point is that it's starting to appear more as arrogant than loving. Not even starting really, it's been this way for a while.

 

 

Maybe I'm too new to the community to have encountered the "fandom elitism" you're talking about. However, it seems to me that an "elite" of lots of fans making music, animations, fanfics, art, etc. is actually less elitist than the prior situation of "only professionals working for the company can do any of this stuff and present it to the world." The opposite of "elitism" is "democratization," the spreading of participatory empowerment toward more and more people. But isn't that what you're worrying about here? So, I'm not quite following the continuity of your argument.

It's easy to get though.

 

 

But--whatever floats their boat.

And that too. That kind of hypocrisy shouldn't be coddled, it should be confronted. But that's more a complaint about people in general than just bronies.

[--Thunder Bolt-- 534]

Gotta tell you. I have no idea how that happened.

 

Well, mainly the reminder of the extent of the creativity of the brony community, and of the empowering technologies that make it possible.  It's easy to go "hey, it's the 21st Century, where's my jetpack!" while taking the things we do have for granted.

 

No idea where you got that little strawman from, my point is that it's starting to appear more as arrogant than loving. Not even starting really, it's been this way for a while.

 

Sorry, my post must have come across as more antagonistic than I intended.  I got the impression from the part of your post where you described the fan animations as "so perfect, so seamless" in what seemed to me like a tone of complaint.

 

It's easy to get though.

 

The closest thing I've encountered to the kind of elitism it sounds like you're talking about is people on another thread complaining about people who use Pony Creator to make their OC's rather than drawing them themselves or commissioning an artist.  I didn't jump into that because others basically said what I would have in response.  Not everybody can churn out nice-looking vectored pony art, or wants to spend actual money to get a passable picture of their OC. 

 

And that too. That kind of hypocrisy shouldn't be coddled, it should be confronted. But that's more a complaint about people in general than just bronies.

 

I guess I can see your point there, at least to a degree (not knowing exactly how much confrontation you're calling for).  It might be easier for me to not be too mad at grimdark/horror/war-oriented pony fics because I don't read them in the first place.   I confess, I did find it a bit...odd...when, after reading lots of "humans suck, ponies are so much better, I wish I could live in Equestria" type posts, I tried to solicit discussion on how we could make our world better, and from that quarter of the fandom here thus far: crickets.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,622]

I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

Originality may be a hard thing to do, but if it keeps it fresh to post new content every once in a while, then who am I to judge.

[Meirno 550]

I'm too tired to put a huge blog of why the fandom is doing so much better than others, but I strongly feel the more content is put out the better. There will always be haters, so let them come. 

 

But a good reason why there is so much content? MLP is MOTIVATING these bronies to come out and try new things. MLP has encouraged THOUSANDS of new artists and musicians, and animators! There are so many animations on Youtube where the person had never touched flash or something before, and you could see it in his work. And now we have stuff like THIS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2VhC1QF7ww

 

This fandom is ENCOURAGING people to try new things, and that's not a bad thing. 

[Tails_155 68]

I think you're misinterpreting /this/ fandom, with the culture that is growing of read-write. You can read a book by Lawrence Lessig on the Read-Write culture called Remix: Making Art and Commerce Thrive in the Hybrid Economy.

 

I don't think it's so much this show's fandom, as it is the time of this show's fandom. We're in a modern era where anyone can get their ideas out into the public view. This may very well be the pilot for a new age of artistic culture. I'd love if all fandoms had so much passion, as long as it's positive. Passionate and supportive creation can do a great deal of good, and when a team takes so much time and attention and gives it to the fans in a proper and legitimate way, it can really create a great... ahem... harmony.