How patriotic are you, and why?

[Radost 76]

I gave it some serious thought, and I don't think I am patriotic at all.

 

The government is so corrupt, so wrong, and so big, I don't even know where to begin. Did you know that the federal reserve is privately owned? It's hard to say anything good about the government anymore. They frivolously spend tax payers' dollars, and hundreds of billions of dollars are pocketed by evil politicians. It's almost like the government has gotten to the point where they want people eating out of the palm of their hand. We fought wars because "they had our oil under their sand", good people die, and they were fighting for freedom. I asked my cousin, who used to be a special forces marine, what he fought for, and he told me he fought for the person next to him, and all that freedom and liberty stuff is just hype for people. That's what has to piss me off the most.

 

"When exposing a crime is treated as a crime, you are ruled by criminals"- Anonymous. I like the idea of the Constitution, but at this point, it wouldn't make much difference if it wasn't there. The Zeitgeist movies are some of my favorite movies because of the corruption they expose; check them out, the movies are free on YouTube.

[James 302]

Nope, patriotism is rather ridiculous, like what George Bernard Shaw said;

 

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

 

Why should I be forced to love a crappy country because I was born there? I'm from Britain, and believe me, Britain is a shithole, I hate it. I certainly don't respect patriotism either, maybe I'd respect it if they chose their country, but not if they blindly accept that their country is great because they are told to. Would a patriot still be a patriot if they were born on the other side of the world? Somehow I think they would be, I'm doubtful that their love for their country has anything to do with the country itself, more in how they were raised.

 

Edit: This was a stupid post, I regret making it and now disagree with what I said, same with everything else I said in this thread. I'm just going to leave it be though, for the sake of not messing up the thread.

Edited November 14, 2013 by James

[LunaUmbra 108]

Patriotism is tricky, because it requires you to overlook a great amount of flaws that your country has. Do I think my country (U.S.) is a stable, well off country? Yep. Do I believe it's soldiers deserve the citizens respect, and even admiration? Of course. Do I think it's the greatest country on the planet? Absolutely not. If push comes to shove, I will stand with the U.S., as long as they weren't the ones starting the shoving. Otherwise, could care less about it.

[AS41 100]

Nope, patriotism is rather ridiculous, like what George Bernard Shaw said;

 

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

 

I disagree with that quote.  Patriotism is more of a love and respect for your country, doesn't mean you think it's superior to every other country.

 

I love the USA, but a lot of people can be assholes, I don't agree with the government at all, and I believe other countries are superior in different ways.  I believe the USA has its good points and while I can see myself living in another country for the rest of my life, there's nothing quite like home.  I feel that I am patriotic simply because even though my country has flaws, I still love it.

 

I say that as I currently live in Japan, by the way.

Edited August 16, 2013 by AS41

[James 302]

I disagree with that quote.  Patriotism is more of a love and respect for your country, doesn't mean you think it's superior to every other country.

 

I don't know, in my experience patriotism all too often crosses the line into nationalism, where is the line even? My experience of patriotic people is that they love their country because they were raised to, so they sometimes have a strange kind of mentality about it. If someone is told something their entire lives, by their parents, by society, they can get very, very extreme in their views, and they'll defend them very aggressively.

Edited August 16, 2013 by James

[MelancholicMemory 2,025]

 

 

Nope, patriotism is rather ridiculous, like what George Bernard Shaw said; "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."

 

 

 

 

I don't believe in patriotism at all, largely for the reasons mentioned above. I also strongly dislike the government of the country I live under because it is incapable of doing even the most simple thing, unless it royally screws its people. On a related note:

 

 

[Cactus 155]

Yes, I am fairly patriotic. Patriotism is merely a sense of cultural devotion to a country, though I suppose the definition of all words could be argued. Every government will have major and minor flaws; there is no reason to snivel at a government for them.

[Hawk Moth 390]

Yes sir, I am patriotic. I love my country and think it's the best gosh darned country on the planet! Hell, if we could jettison California into the Pacific, we'd be the best country in the universe! I drink my Coca-Cola with pride, sir! Now if only my President would stop pretending he's the world's employee and at least 20% of this country's lawyers could osmose elsewhere, I'd really be super proud to live here!

[AS41 100]

I don't know, in my experience patriotism all too aften crosses the line into nationalism, where is the line even? My experience of patriotic people is that they love their country because they were raised to, so they sometimes have a strange kind of mentality about it. If someone is told something their entire lives, by their parents, by society, they can get very, very extreme in their views, and they'll defend them very aggressively.

 

It all really just depends on the person.  Different people define the same things in all different ways.  Just remember that it's not only how one was raised by their parents, but also their life experiences growing up.  Everything that has ever happened to you in the past has an effect on your future and the way you think.  This is also the reason why Engineers are supposed to take so many damn science classes.  You'll never remember all of this stuff, you wont use a lot of it, but it actually makes you think in a different way.

 

 

I don't believe in patriotism at all, largely for the reasons mentioned above. I also strongly dislike the government of the country I live under because it is incapable of doing even the most simple thing, unless it royally screws its people.

 

So then I've got to ask, what country are you looking at moving to if you disagree with your own so much?  Where do you feel you will be best suited?  That or what are you doing to change your own country?

Edited August 16, 2013 by AS41

[James 302]

It all really just depends on the person.  Different people define the same things in all different ways.  Just remember that it's not only how one was raised by their parents, but also their life experiences growing up.  Everything that has ever happened to you in the past has an effect on your future and the way you think.  This is also the reason why Engineers are supposed to take so many damn science classes.  You'll never remember all of this stuff, you wont use a lot of it, but it actually makes you think in a different way.

 

Actually I was thinking about that too, patriotic people tend to be those that have lived very comfortably for most of their lives, or lived in nice places. I definitely lived somewhat comfortably, it could have been worse, even if my family was poor as hell, but since I lived in a poor area I have a very different perspective on Britain than someone who grew up in a nice place. There a massive amount of patriotic people who lived in a big house in a nice area, obviously they'll think that their country is great, because for them it was, everything is easy for them.

[MelancholicMemory 2,025]

 

 

So then I've got to ask, what country are you looking at moving to if you disagree with your own so much? Where do you feel you will be best suited? That or what are you doing to change your own country?

I've considered moving to Canada, but even then  I wouldn't be a proud Canadian. Where you live is nothing to be proud of because you don't earn it or have to work towards it at all. That's why patriotism is silly.

 

Also, if you think you have the power to change things, you're fooling yourself. Really there's nothing any of us can do. The fact of the matter is that most people don't care about virtue or hard work or culture or improving our countries or anything like that.. They just want to go by living their menial existences, not willing to worry about anything bigger than what's for dinner. Most of the exceptions to this are nutjobs. One man is not a country. You need to win over the majority. The majority resists any sort of change at all. So, we can't change our countries. It gets even harder if you get political. Here in America, and most of the first world, government has become an unstoppable system designed to serve big corrupt corporations which gain power and wealth by giving politicians money to win their campaigns, screwing over the people in the process, all under the pretext of serving the people. It's an out of control monster which people can't control, especially because everyone running pretends not to be a selfish, cunning, greedy, fiend, only to reveal all this after being elected. Short of going all French Revolution, nothing is going to stop this. Canada, US, and anywhere else, it doesn't matter. There are no good countries, and there probably never will be one because no one cares to make one. That's what's sad about it.

 

So when I say America is a bad country or America is the home of the hypocrite, I'm not comparing it to another or even saying the US ought to change for the better. I'm merely speaking the truth, which is a rare thing these days.

[Concord Discord 35]

I don't go around showing it all the time, but I think I can be patriotic when I need to be. Britain's a good country, in my opinion. There are upsides and downsides to living in any country, and I respect that, but every nation has come a long way over time, and things are improving. So I respect the country that I've known all my life.

[Planty 1,053]

I disagree with that quote. Patriotism is more of a love and respect for your country, doesn't mean you think it's superior to every other country.

 

I love the USA, but a lot of people can be assholes, I don't agree with the government at all, and I believe other countries are superior in different ways. I believe the USA has its good points and while I can see myself living in another country for the rest of my life, there's nothing quite like home. I feel that I am patriotic simply because even though my country has flaws, I still love it.

 

I say that as I currently live in Japan, by the way.

Yep I agree with you! Apart from joking around, I don't think the UK is better then every other country,but it's where I've grown up so I kinda love it !

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

I disagree that being patriotic means you overlook the flaws of your country. I'm very patriotic to Scotland (not the UK, just Scotland) but I realise that the country has some massive problems.

 

I don't see why I cannot be proud of the place I was born in and where my family are from without people telling me "oh that means you think it's better than the rest of the world" because that's not what patriotism even means, at least not to me.

 

Be proud of where you're from, be patriotic to your home country and love your home land but accept that it has flaws and accept that there will be countries that are better than it. That is patriotism.

[AS41 100]

Also, if you think you have the power to change things, you're fooling yourself. Really there's nothing any of us can do. The fact of the matter is that most people don't care about virtue or hard work or culture or improving our countries or anything like that.. They just want to go by living their menial existences, not willing to worry about anything bigger than what's for dinner. Most of the exceptions to this are nutjobs. One man is not a country.

 

Where I live, this cannot be further from the truth.  I have never seen people take more pride in their work, be more involved in what they do, and let me tell you, most of them are amazing people to talk to.  The culture shock of where I live is the simple fact that it is that there are things that are so polar opposite of the USA that I never would have imagined it would have even exist.

 

What pisses me off probably the most about people in the USA are those who are in the shitter, they've given up on trying to crawl up and want to bring everybody down to their level.  They see somebody with a nice new Corvette and hate the person because 'what did that person do to deserve that car.'   Money can be made, changes can be done, the only thing that is stopping people are the messed up ideals that this country isn't theirs and there's nothing they can do.

 

Change is the hardest thing, it takes work, time, effort, but it can be done.

 

For you, I suggest you try your move to Canada, you may like it a lot more.  Possibly British Columbia if you would like to live among the mountains.  You don't have to move somewhere you will feel patriotic, just happy(or happier).

Edited August 16, 2013 by AS41

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

If you ask me, a "country" is really just a fancy euphemism for a territory that's governed by a state. I happen to like the island I'm on but I'm not in love with the government and the people can really be an embarrassment. So yeah, I like my island; not as a territory or a state but for what it is, really. I have my roots and attachments there and I can't really see myself leaving.

[James 302]

I disagree that being patriotic means you overlook the flaws of your country. I'm very patriotic to Scotland (not the UK, just Scotland) but I realise that the country has some massive problems.

 

For me, the negatives of Scotland far outweigh the positives (if there are any). Drug addicts, alcoholics, racists, violent and aggressive people, and all around stupidity. That's all I ever experienced in 18 years living there. Man, Scotland is a pile of crap, I don't know why anyone would want to live there.

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

For me, the negatives of Scotland far outweigh the positives (if there are any). Drug addicts, alcoholics, racists, violent and aggressive people, and all around stupidity. That's all I ever experienced in 18 years living there. Man, Scotland is a pile of crap, I don't know why anyone would want to live there.

North Eastern Scotland, particularly around Banff and where I'm from, the Haugh of Glass, is just beautiful. I've never been to Glasgow which is supposed to be the main area of Scotland where it's at it's worst so I can't comment.

 

However, in my 16 years of being alive and visiting Scotland about 3 or 4 times a year for weeks at a time (we moved to England, sarcasmyay), I've never met anyone Scottish who was a drug addict or who was clearly an alcoholic. Nor have I met anyone who was an open or outright racist. I'm not denying that these people don't exist in Scotland because that would be ignorant but I don't believe it should be a stereotype because there are so few in most parts of Scotland.

 

The land is beautiful and it has some of the most amazing Castle ruins in the world (in my opinion). Also, it appears that you are literally ignoring every single possible positive that Scotland has and attempting to just run it down, focus on the good things rather than the bad.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Kaz

[James 302]

@,

 

Lucky you, I never saw any of that stuff, I lived in a crappy little town somewhere between Glasgow and Edinburgh, it was hell. I think Glasgow is far more indicative of Scotland as a whole than you think it is.

 

Goes back to what I said before, I lived in a shithole full of alcoholics and racists, therefore I see Scotland as a shithole full of alcoholics and racists.

 

Seriously though, you never met someone who was an alcoholic? In Scotland? That's a lie and you know it.

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

@,

 

Lucky you, I never saw any of that stuff, I lived in a crappy little town somewhere between Glasgow and Edinburgh, it was hell. I think Glasgow is far more indicative of Scotland as a whole than you think it is.

 

Goes back to what I said before, I lived in a shithole full of alcoholics and racists, therefore I see Scotland as a shithole full of alcoholics and racists.

 

Seriously though, you never met someone who was an alcoholic? In Scotland? That's a lie and you know it.

 

I've never met anyone I KNOW who was an alcoholic. I've probably met racists, drug addicts and alcoholics but from what I remember... I haven't actually known definitely if anyone was or wasn't. Everyone was pretty private up by me, you didn't really share much. I can probably recall one person who seemed like an alcoholic but again, we never really mixed around with people as it was more my grandparents who knew everyone in the village.

 

If you ever can get higher up into Scotland then do. Aberdeen is a gorgeous place and if you ever go high enough, visit Banff or Stonehaven. They're absolutely wonderful places to visit and have the nicest beaches in the entirety of Scotland.

[MelancholicMemory 2,025]

Where I live, this cannot be further from the truth.  I have never seen people take more pride in their work, be more involved in what they do, and let me tell you, most of them are amazing people to talk to.  The culture shock of where I live is the simple fact that it is that there are things that are so polar opposite of the USA that I never would have imagined it would have even exist.

 

What pisses me off probably the most about people in the USA are those who are in the shitter, they've given up on trying to crawl up and want to bring everybody down to their level.  They see somebody with a nice new Corvette and hate the person because 'what did that person do to deserve that car.'   Money can be made, changes can be done, the only thing that is stopping people are the messed up ideals that this country isn't theirs and there's nothing they can do.

 

Change is the hardest thing, it takes work, time, effort, but it can be done.

 

For you, I suggest you try your move to Canada, you may like it a lot more.  Possibly British Columbia if you would like to live among the mountains.  You don't have to move somewhere you will feel patriotic, just happy(or happier).

Perhaps you're right about your country, but not so much here. Japan is a drastically different culture from the US. The problem with the US is that no one actually wants things to change. It'll take our ruin to make anyone care enough to do something, but by then it'll be too late. Like you said, it takes effort to change. It doesn't really matter where I live though because I'll be just about the same in every way regardless. I've considered moving to Canada because it seems nicer, but I'll probably just end up wherever I can find work.

[James 302]

I've never met anyone I KNOW who was an alcoholic. I've probably met racists, drug addicts and alcoholics but from what I remember... I haven't actually known definitely if anyone was or wasn't. Everyone was pretty private up by me, you didn't really share much. I can probably recall one person who seemed like an alcoholic but again, we never really mixed around with people as it was more my grandparents who knew everyone in the village.

 

If you ever can get higher up into Scotland then do. Aberdeen is a gorgeous place and if you ever go high enough, visit Banff or Stonehaven. They're absolutely wonderful places to visit and have the nicest beaches in the entirety of Scotland.

 

I don't live in Scotland anymore, I live in NI, it's pretty much just as bad, the only difference is that people are slightly more open about alcoholism. If I did still live there there's no way I'd want to go out more, and explore like you said, I happy to lock myself away and pretend the crappy world around me doesn't exist.

 

I'm sure both of us would change our opinion if we could make the other see what we see.

 

This is what I see;

 

 

And this is what you see;

 

Edited August 16, 2013 by James

[MLPForums Phanact 1,374]

In all honesty, the top screenshot looks more like Bolton (where I live now) than it looks like any place I'VE ever visited in Scotland.

[boospookum 23]

Actually am fairly patriotic. When I see veterans, I thank them for their service and sometimes tear up in war movies.

 

There are a lot of things about the United States of America that are less than Utopian, but not only is that to be found anywhere our political inconvenience is trite in comparison with many places around the world. There are also some places clearly ahead of us, but eh. This is the human world, we can't have it all.

 

Even with all the corruption and the bits of mainstream culture that sometimes inspire feelings of hopelessness... I am still proud of our country and how much it's grown in the short time that it's existed compared to other countries and cultures. The USA doesn't do things halfheartedly; we've done things that are terrible, but we've also done things that are truly great, and it's fair to acknowledge both.

 

At the end of the day, I do love the United States. It's my home.

[ReGen 1,466]

A little... I won't lie, there are certainly many things wrong here. But I still have faith in my country. Things could get better or worse, and i'll stick with it either way.

 

America may be an awful place, but then again, the whole world is. We just gotta find ways to make it better one step at a time.