Equestria. Kingdom or princedom?

[InvaderShy 18]

Yes, I know in the first episode of series,specifically in the introduction, it was mentioned the word "kingdom". But considering the ones who govern Equestria are princesses, I've coming to consider that Equestria is a princedom just like Andorra, Monaco or Liechtenstein in our world.

 

If it was a kingdom the royal title would be king/queen, but we've got prince/princess in this case. It could be, maybe, really small the territory that conforms Equestria with a median population making it an easy place to manage. 

 

Therefore, it would be another type of princedom without parliament or constitution.

 

 

Are you agree or disagree?

[Planty 1,053]

I think it is almost like a government that is currently under a dictatorship.

 

I don't think they are really a royal family (they just made Twilight a princess and what about Cadence?), and if feels almost like they get to choose there successors and they get the title of Princess rather then Princess being a title they are born with.

[CloudFyre 848]

Yes, I know in the first episode of series,specifically in the introduction, it was mentioned the word "kingdom". But considering the ones who govern Equestria are princesses, I've coming to consider that Equestria is a princedom just like Andorra, Monaco or Liechtenstein in our world.

 

If it was a kingdom the royal title would be king/queen, but we've got prince/princess in this case. It could be, maybe, really small the territory that conforms Equestria with a median population making it an easy place to manage. 

 

Therefore, it would be another type of princedom without parliament or constitution.

 

 

Are you agree or disagree?

It's a kingdom, but the prince/princess titles follow from Disney's portrayal of "everyone with the title of 'Queen' is evil". It's less an issue of wording and more of an issue of stereotypes. :/

[long gone 8,929]

Hasbro decided to follow the "Queen = EVIL!" stereotype from Disney, even though Faust wanted to call Celestia "Queen Celestia". Ultimately Hasbro had the final say in her title.

[Dusknight Haze 161]

It's a kingdom, but the prince/princess titles follow from Disney's portrayal of "everyone with the title of 'Queen' is evil". It's less an issue of wording and more of an issue of stereotypes. :/

 

I just feel like that with all the other subversions in the series, Faust really shouldn't have let up on the queen thing. It'd have been a much better example for young females to look up to a ruling, powerful, wise, and just queen than a princess since princess really has, imo, worse and more misogynistic connotations than the "evil queen" stereotype.

[Descant 1,898]

Princedom? I believe that the term is "Principality", although it could be either or. I just think Principality sounds better.

Yeah, I'd say it's a princedom or a principality, considering that there's nothing canon to point to the contrary. And honestly, Queen Celestia sounds less catchy than Princess Celestia, even if it would make more sense for her to be a queen.

[Rockymoo 2,137]

Yeah, they really should've gone with Queen Celestia.

First off, queens are cooler.

Second off, it would further emphasize her role as the wise, just, positively-influencing matriarch that she is.

Besides, I'm not an expert on monarchy here, but isn't it impossible for a kingdom to not have a king and/or queen? Wouldn't Celestia, being the eldest, be promoted to queen by default? Like, she's not Peach, dude.

I mean there's a queen of Britain, and she's a pretty neat gal. Queens aren't evil.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Tricksy Lewlamoon

[Dusknight Haze 161]

Princedom? I believe that the term is "Principality", although it could be either or. I just think Principality sounds better.

 

Yeah, I'd say it's a princedom or a principality, considering that there's nothing canon to point to the contrary. And honestly, Queen Celestia sounds less catchy than Princess Celestia, even if it would make more sense for her to be a queen.

 

They're both correct.

 

I think the opposite. Queen Celestia sounds much more BADASS than princess. 

 

Either way, I feel like princess being the ideal in Equestria is a little out of line with the rest of the ideals presented in the shows, like being compassionate, intelligent, business savvy, etc., even if the concept of princess within Equestria and outside of our context is different.

 

Younger age groups will have trouble divorcing the real-world ideal of relatively helpless and "virtuous" princesses from the Equestrian ideal of wise and powerful leaders that are granted their title by action rather than marriage or birth.

[NocturnalRainbow 248]

Cough Principality Cough (That's what it's called in today's modern politics, you could use the other name though if you wanted)

 

Considering the definition of "Principality" is "A state ruled by a prince" I am going to assume for now that it includes Princess's but it might not. If so then Equestria is indeed a Principality and not a kingdom. 

 

Anyway speaking of LIECHTENSTEIN... it's awesome

 

I have been so totally obsessed with Liechtenstein since 6th grade. We had to do a project on any European country and everyone was choosing things like "Germany" and "France" and I was like "LIECHTENSTEIN!!! YEEAAAAHH!" It's my dream to visit there and see all of the stuff that I've only gotten to see in pictures.

 

Oh and Hans-Adam II is best Prince

Edited September 11, 2013 by NocturnalRainbow

[Scootalove 10,692]

I think it is still a kingdom under the rule of a princess, and since the stereotype of a queen being evil is known from Disney then it is actually just a kingdom.

[Kulstor 254]

To bad Hasbro bowed to the Disney stereotype that all queens are evil.  I think Celestia fits better as a queen then a princess.  As for Celestia automatically being elevated to queen there are sovereign principalities on earth today.  Not many but some.   Monaco is the only one I can think of right offhand. 

[~StatesTheOblivious~ 1,795]

Well, since it has been brought up so often that Celestia was supposed to be a queen in Faust's concept and we still have to mind that you can't really - at least in most points - compare Equestrian nobility to what we have on earth, it would be in some way a principality...

 

Not forgetting that it were Celestia and Luna who defeated Discord the first time...

 

BUT...

 

Only because they rule now, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is a principality by constitution/law/tradition or whatever.

Why? Well, simple question as an answer: Who ruled before Discord? A king? Think about all the possibilities...

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Equestria is actually a Diarchy, which is a form of government in which two individuals, the diarchs, are the heads of state. In most diarchies, the diarchs hold their position for life and pass the responsibilities and power of the position to their children or family when they die.

 

Though because of how long live Princess Celestia and Princess Luna are, perhaps immortal, this would likely be the reasoning for Cadence and Twilight for becoming alicorns and taking the title of Princess.

Edited September 11, 2013 by EquestrianScholar

[Rockymoo 2,137]

So, I'm reading back through this topic, and I realize how hypocritical I sound when I say that we're putting way too much thought into this.

Oh well, screw it. It's entertaining. :comeatus:

[Quilled Inc 161]

Yeah, they really should've gone with Queen Celestia.

First off, queens are cooler.

Second off, it would further emphasize her role as the wise, just, positively-influencing matriarch that she is.

Besides, I'm not an expert on monarchy here, but isn't it impossible for a kingdom to not have a king and/or queen? Wouldn't Celestia, being the eldest, be promoted to queen by default? Like, she's not Peach, dude.

I mean there's a queen of Britain, and she's a pretty neat gal. Queens aren't evil.

Haha, of course queens aren't evil in real life, however, in the context of this show, the title of "queen" can have some negative connotations to it from a juvenile perspective (especially a female juvenile perspective).  Think about it, how many fairy tales have you heard that talked about the living queen as a good person?  Most of the time the queen is the evil stepmother, or the jealous witch/sorceress.  Princess sounds so much kinder and loving, doesn't it?  I mean, "Queen Celestia" could almost be some kind of evil dictator.

To support myself, think back to Queen Chrysalis and King Sombra.  In the context of the show those designations seem to consistently indicate, well, evilness...

Edited September 11, 2013 by SilverQuill

[Koelath 445]

...You must be really REALLY bored to make a thread debating whether the word "king" or "prince" makes a better label. They're the same thing, who cares? It's a kingprincedom.

[Declen 118]

 

 

I think the opposite. Queen Celestia sounds much more BADASS than princess.

I think, Her Highness doesn't need to sound anyhow to be a BADASS, that she definitely is.

 

I'm for principality.

Harsbro still managed to subvert the stereotype of a princess, by giving the title to a deity. That was a good one! And, since Her Highness is called a princess, her realm should have an appropreate title, too.

[Kulstor 254]

I wonder if anyone's told Queen Elizabeth that queens are evil? 

 

Another thing is I doubt anyone at Hasbro really thought over what the proper term is.  To bad, it could teach kids a new word. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Harsbro still managed to subvert the stereotype of a princess, by giving the title to a deity. That was a good one! And, since Her Highness is called a princess, her realm should have an appropreate title, too.

Actually no, Lauren Faust had never intended for Celestia and Luna to be seen as deities and really apart from control of the sun and moon they have nothing to even suggest being goddesses (though Luna can also go into ponies dreams but still).

 

They do not have worshipers, don't even need prayers, there are no holy symbols representing them that ponies wear, they don't have the power to be deities nor do they even live a part from their subjects. The closest to goddess they are could be likened to the Egyptian pharaoh though that would be stretching it as again they are not worshiped,

Edited September 12, 2013 by EquestrianScholar

[Declen 118]

 

 

Lauren Faust had never intended

I know. She also wanted Her Highness to be a queen. It was Harsbro's decision to make her a princess.

 

 

apart from control of the sun and moon they have nothing to even suggest being goddesses

I'd say, it's enough. Her Highness does something, the whole life on (yes, on) Equestria depends on.

 

 

They do not have worshipers, don't even need prayers, there are no holy symbols representing them that ponies wear, they don't have the power to be deities nor do they even live a part from their subjects. The closest to goddess they are could be likened to the Egyptian pharaoh though that would be stretching it as again they are not worshiped,

Because she doesn't need all that crap. No god or diety does, actually. Worshipers need all that: to be warshippers, to have rituals, holy signs and so on. Why? Because they need to feel their god truly is.

But Celestia is there. They don't need to believe in her - they know.

And that's also the reason why there no holy texts dedicated to Her Highness (i think, that one is obvious).

All in all. you cannot compare situation on Equestria with that in our world, particularely, with any earth religion. Because no one of those people have a luxury to know their god exists.

[Fhaolan 4,494]

Yes, I know in the first episode of series,specifically in the introduction, it was mentioned the word "kingdom". But considering the ones who govern Equestria are princesses, I've coming to consider that Equestria is a princedom just like Andorra, Monaco or Liechtenstein in our world.

 

If it was a kingdom the royal title would be king/queen, but we've got prince/princess in this case. It could be, maybe, really small the territory that conforms Equestria with a median population making it an easy place to manage. 

 

Therefore, it would be another type of princedom without parliament or constitution.

 

 

Are you agree or disagree?

 

Problem is, you're using a very modern dictionary definition of the word 'princess' which does not map in any way to the way they use it in Equestria, or for that matter in real-world history. Having a Prince rule a Kingdom is not in any way unusual historically.

 

I've already written this all out here: http://mlpforums.com/blog/844/entry-4983-equestria-and-the-crystal-empire-always-a-princess-never-a-queen/

 

However, the summary version is that people misunderstand what the title 'Prince' means. For most of European history 'Prince' was a generic title that was applied to Kings, Jarls, Barons, Cardinals, etc. equally. In one specific instance, the title 'Prince' actually took precedence over all those other titles, the same instance where a High King was *elected* by a council of Princes to rule over an Empire.

 

My point is that titles of nobility are a lot more complex than what Disney teaches, and making broad assumptions about 'Princes rule Principalities' and 'Kings rule Kingdoms' is going to get you in trouble if you actually try to study history.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

-snip-

In Equestria there are no deities, the closest being to deity is Discord and he is called the 'spirit' of disharmony so such could be argued.

 

Remember at one time the unicorn race as a whole were able to control the movements of sun and moon.

Edited September 13, 2013 by EquestrianScholar

[Shine 166]

I think it is almost like a government that is currently under a dictatorship.

 

I don't think they are really a royal family (they just made Twilight a princess and what about Cadence?), and if feels almost like they get to choose there successors and they get the title of Princess rather then Princess being a title they are born with.

Actually, this isn't true.  I believe I read once that Cadance is some kind of cousin to Celestia and Luna (I can't remember that exactly), but I do recall specifically that Prince Blueblood only has the title "prince" because of his relation to the royal family and that he is not destined to rule.  Therefore, we know that there are two types of royalty in this show: some are born royal, some are promoted to royalty, but they can both have a chance at ruling if they are worthy of the title.

[Planty 1,053]

Actually, this isn't true.  I believe I read once that Cadance is some kind of cousin to Celestia and Luna (I can't remember that exactly), but I do recall specifically that Prince Blueblood only has the title "prince" because of his relation to the royal family and that he is not destined to rule.  Therefore, we know that there are two types of royalty in this show: some are born royal, some are promoted to royalty, but they can both have a chance at ruling if they are worthy of the title.

 

True, but the fact that they have to be "worthy of the title" and that's decided by Celestia makes it a dictatorship still doesn't it?

 

In effect Blood bloods title means very little, he may never get to rule it's all down to Celestia deciding.

[Quilled Inc 161]

True, but the fact that they have to be "worthy of the title" and that's decided by Celestia makes it a dictatorship still doesn't it?

 

In effect Blood bloods title means very little, he may never get to rule it's all down to Celestia deciding.

Hmm, but is it REALLY decided by Celestia?  I wonder, if Twilight had found and completed that spell by Star Swirl the Bearded if the Alicorn thing would have happened anyway, regardless of Celestia.... just a thought...

Edited September 13, 2013 by SilverQuill