How did Celestia use the EOH against NMM anyway?

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

Now this may seem like a silly question but hear me out. Look at the EOH used by the Mane 6. It requires all 6, along with each of their elements being in balance, and all of them wanting to work together toward a common goal, in which case against NMM, Discord, and Sunset Shimmer in the Equestria Girls spinoff. It's easy to see Luna and Celestia teaming up with them to beat King Sombra and Discord because they were at Harmony and wanted to work together for the good of the kingdom against a clearly evil enemy.

 

However, the context changes completely when you look at it as Celestia vs Luna. Her sister was corrupted by feelings of jealousy and bitterness, and waged war against her sister for the sake of eternal night. Celestia by herself was able to either steal her sisters elements, or Luna discarded them herself believing she was powerful enough now without them, and then attack her sister, banishing her to the moon.

 

The whole point of the series is even in the name. FRIENDSHIP is magic, and it's the basis of the power of the Elements of Harmony. Now Celestia may have felt she had to do her duty for the sake of all her subjects, but standing alone, having to attack her sister she was desperately trying to snap out of her folly, Celestia had lost her sole ally, so she should not have felt any sense of harmony or peace, which is again, the very basis of their power. Thus, the EOH should not have worked for her because it would go against everything she wanted for her deluded sister.

 

And if you want actual proof from the show, the power of the EOH differed significantly when Celestia used them against Luna than when the Mane 6 did.  For Celestia it locked her sister away. For the Mane 6 who were more in tune with what the EOH represent, it stripped Luna of her dark powers and let her true self come back out. 

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Depressing theory:

 

Princess Celestia had five friends to activate the elements with at some point, but they all died of old age, 'cause you know, Alicorn.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,825]

Celestia, being the supreme, has every trait concealed in the Elements of Harmony. Because of this, she could wield them at any time. Celestia has the heart of friendship, the attitude of friendship and the will to bring her old sister back from the clutches of her own dark desires. She, in fact, had Twilight Sparkle's role - the five other friends. 

[FNGRpony 658]

Depressing theory:

 

Princess Celestia had five friends to activate the elements with at some point, but they all died of old age, 'cause you know, Alicorn.

 

Well, if she had followers they used the elements of harmoney,

I'm pretty sure one of those would have to be, i don't know,

 

Star swirl the bearded wielding the element of magic,

 

that's not depressing at all.  Considering the alternative ideas what star swirl may have become,

 

to quote that guy from pat cemetery,

"Sometimes death is better."

[Scootalove 10,689]

I believe that Celestia only used the Elements that represent her traits, and defeated Nightmare Moon to try to get her sister back. She had the determination to never give up.

[Misty Shadow 8,193]

My theory is that she didn't use all of the Elements of Harmony combined against Nightmare Moon, just the crown. In Equestria Girls, Sunset Shimmer only needed the crown to harness the powers of the Elements and become as powerful as she was. Also, if you look closely at the scene in the opening of the first episode where Celestia banishes Nightmare Moon, she isn't wearing any of the necklaces, just the crown. I think it's just that the Elements are the most powerful when they're all used together.

[FNGRpony 658]

My theory is that she didn't use all of the Elements of Harmony combined against Nightmare Moon, just the crown. In Equestria Girls, Sunset Shimmer only needed the crown to harness the powers of the Elements and become as powerful as she was. Also, if you look closely at the scene in the opening of the first episode where Celestia banishes Nightmare Moon, she isn't wearing any of the necklaces, just the crown. I think it's just that the Elements are the most powerful when they're all used together.

 

I kinda wouldn't mind seeing..... no.. no wait i would LOL.

I was gonna say i wouldn't mind seeing just the crown in action but that exactly the wrong direction i think we (and stop me if i'm wrong)

don't want to see alicorn twilight head down.

 

I mean instead of the main 6 blasting the head bad guy into strone, twilight sparkle does it all on herself.  Hm, yeah i just made a terrible suggestion.

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

It is true the origina

 

My theory is that she didn't use all of the Elements of Harmony combined against Nightmare Moon, just the crown. In Equestria Girls, Sunset Shimmer only needed the crown to harness the powers of the Elements and become as powerful as she was. Also, if you look closely at the scene in the opening of the first episode where Celestia banishes Nightmare Moon, she isn't wearing any of the necklaces, just the crown. I think it's just that the Elements are the most powerful when they're all used together.

Well keep in mind that prior to the mane 6 syncing with them, the elements were simply large jewels. It was only after they acquired them that their power was sealed into small necklesses in the form of their cutie marks, so it would make sense she wouldn't be wearing five necklesses and a 'big crown thingy'

 

And I don't really know if we should go by Equestria girls. That movie said Eff canon and let Twilight use the full power of the elements of Harmony simply because the alternate universe version of her friends, who have never touched the EOH before, simply embodied their respective elements. Anyway, each of the elements themselves possess inherent power, but usually can only be used to their full potential when all the others are present. 

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Sunset Shimmer: Pop quiz: what happens when you bring an Element of Harmony into an alternate world? You don't know? Seriously? [laughs] And you're supposed to be Princess Celestia's star student? 

 

Apparently the elements work differently in alternate worlds, so it would explain how Sunset was able to use the crown on it's own.

[Malinter 3,064]

Luna remained somewhere within NMM so the elements were still linked. This allowed Celestia to use them one last time.

 

Bare in mind the EoH of Luna & Celestia are NOT the same as the Main 6 ones. they may have taken a different form (tho the 'magic' element was still a tiara) so she could wear all 6. They only developed there current form with twilight and her freinds becoming the new bearers.

 

After sealing away NMM the seal would have to block all magic so she couldn't ecsape from within or without. This in turn broke the link and the EoH reacted as if Luna had died and in turn became inhert stone.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Malinter

[Nature's Spell 526]

I agree with the idea that her element, maybe magic, was powerful enough to banish her, however, without Luna's elements she was not able to redeem her like the mane 6 did.

 

@Malinter I like your theory is why they turned to stone (Luna's symbolic death) but it doesn't explain why Celestia's did as well unless the act of banishing her sister broke her connection.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Nature Spell

[Ianpiersonjdavis 514]

Well, just because Luna become disharmonious/Nightmare Moon and disconnected from the Elements doesn't mean Celestia did as well.

 

In fact, every previously defeated threat to date whom they shared a history with, the two sisters had defeated together.

 

And it seems that lack of any major threats over time, left the elements idle and thus, disconnected themselves from Celestia.

[pinkiefan1287 610]

Most likely Celestia did use all of the elements. Here is an idea. What if she combined all the elements into the crown? Than after Luna was sealed they turned into stone after the battle was over and lost connection with Luna. The story does say she used all the elements not just one and you can't just use one element to make them work. You need all of them to work.

[Koelath 445]

When Luna became corrupted by Discord (my theory), the harmony between the two wielding the elements was broken. But perhaps before the elements went fully dormant, Celestia used the last of their draining power to banish and seal Nightmare Moon away.

 

We see Twilight try something similar after Discord's corrupted the other elements but it fails. The reason it succeeds with Celestia's attempt is probably because the remnants of the EoH' magic was supplemented with Celestia's own power.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Koelath

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

When Luna became corrupted by Discord (my theory), the harmony between the two wielding the elements was broken. But perhaps before the elements went fully dormant, Celestia used the last of their draining power to banish and seal Nightmare Moon away.

 

We see Twilight try something similar after Discord's corrupted the other elements but it fails. The reason it succeeds with Celestia's attempt is probably because the remnants of the EoH' magic was supplemented with Celestia's own power.

My problem with that theory is that Celestia and Luna sealed Discord away together, so he couldn't have corrupted Luna before he was sealed or she wouldn't have been able to use her elements against him.

[Nature's Spell 526]

My problem with that theory is that Celestia and Luna sealed Discord away together, so he couldn't have corrupted Luna before he was sealed or she wouldn't have been able to use her elements against him.

Yeah Luna wasn't fully corrupted when they took out Discord and Sombra. It happened some time after those events. Now it's possible that Discord's antics and Sombra's dark magic pushed Luna over the edge, but I think it's more interesting if she fell by her own doing. Luna's fall was a combined failure-her and Celestia-but we may be making too much of outside influences.

[imlizyeah 56]

I agree with the idea that celestia had friends she used the elements with and they are no longer around which is why she needed twilight to make friends and etc. I mean, hasn't it been spoken that celestia cannot use the elements of harmony? I'm pretty sure she said it at some point.

[Koelath 445]

My problem with that theory is that Celestia and Luna sealed Discord away together, so he couldn't have corrupted Luna before he was sealed or she wouldn't have been able to use her elements against him.

 

Who's to say he didn't corrupt her before he was sealed? Corruption isn't necessarily an instant process every time.

 

The mane six are instantly corrupted because they are weaker overall. Luna, being as old and powerful as she was, would've taken time either way. After all, if he could just insta-corrupt anybody at all, he'd have won the war and never have been sealed away in the first place. Celestia, being a symbolic cliche, is incorruptible so he went for Luna instead, planting the seeds necessary to allow corruption to take hold in his absence. She wasn't immediately corrupted so she could still use the Elements but the process was set in motion for the future.

[Never2muchpinkie 211]

I agree with the idea that celestia had friends she used the elements with and they are no longer around which is why she needed twilight to make friends and etc. I mean, hasn't it been spoken that celestia cannot use the elements of harmony? I'm pretty sure she said it at some point.

The reason Discords seal weakened is because Celestia was no longer connected to the elements, because Twilight and her friends were not connected to them.

 

Who's to say he didn't corrupt her before he was sealed? Corruption isn't necessarily an instant process every time.

 

The mane six are instantly corrupted because they are weaker overall. Luna, being as old and powerful as she was, would've taken time either way. After all, if he could just insta-corrupt anybody at all, he'd have won the war and never have been sealed away in the first place. Celestia, being a symbolic cliche, is incorruptible so he went for Luna instead, planting the seeds necessary to allow corruption to take hold in his absence. She wasn't immediately corrupted so she could still use the Elements but the process was set in motion for the future.

Well, if you think about the way things were back then, Discord believed he was unstoppable, and without the EOH he was, so I still believe he could have insta-corrupted Celestia, Luna, or whoever he wanted. However, it just wouldn't have been as much fun that way. Let the foolish ponies attempt to resist him, for being able to break them and see they couldn't win no matter what they tried would make things oh so fun. The reason he so quickly and methodically went after the Mane 6 right after he was released was because he now knew there WAS something that could defeat him if used. If it hadn't been for Celestia sending back Twilights friendship notes than Dscord would have won and been free to reign over as much chaos as he pleased.