How come fans defend Applejack more in Bats! than Rarity in Rarity Takes Mane...

[Dark Qiviut 22,396]

Well you proved my point. Rarity may have acted worse but did a ton to make up for it.

 

Wanna try again?

I didn't prove your point. You killed your opinion the second you jumped to conclusions via a strawman (which is why I quoted you). Rarity did make up for it in a big way, and just about everyone here will sympathize with her because she had good reasons to question her biggest quality. But her initial solution IS something to analyze and critique because it was morally wrong and indefensible. AJ was villified for a solution that made the most sense, so you'll get plenty of people defending her.

[Radiance64 7,053]

Because bias, I dunno.

Then again some people just like to look at flaws in characters they dislike in this show sometimes, and not realize just how great Rarity's character arc in RTM really was.

[Lightning Bliss 1,674]

Personally I don't understand why others are supporting Apple Jack despite her good points.

 

But TimeLordRainbowDash is right in regards to everypony gaining up on Fluttershy. They were all quick to side with AJ on her views of the situation rather then fully hear out Fluttershy's views. What annoyed me more is that Twilight, being a new princess and all, was quick to favor AJ right off the bat. That confused me a great deal. Shouldn't she be the like the only one at least not gaining up on Fluttershy and encourage everypony to see both sides before choosing one?

[Whatevs 377]

Well if your forcing me to judge it on that merit, your not going to like my response?

 

When rainbow dash was faced with lightening dust she didn't stoop to dusts level, she did what she knew to be right instinctively.

And rainbow had joining the wonder bolts on the line.

 

She was there, at a very clean and cut location.

IF faced with the wonder bolts again in the future we know (like in rainbow falls) she's gonna make the right choice right off the bat.

Okay she tried to play neutral,

 

as apposed to whaling on about "isn't friend ship magical!" and storming off in a huff.

Yes she came to her sense,

and I've done that myself,

 

but here's the thing,

I'm an awful person.

So what you're saying is that Rarity is more wrong for her indiscretions despite doing more to make it up?

She did far more to make it up than Dash did, so w/e.

 

 

Rarity is morally superior to Dash despite behaving worse because of her good behavior in the episode. Not saying Dash was not moral, just that Rarity was moreso.

I didn't prove your point. You killed your opinion the second you jumped to conclusions via a strawman (which is why I quoted you). Rarity did make up for it in a big way, and just about everyone here will sympathize with her because she had good reasons to question her biggest quality. But her initial solution IS something to analyze and critique because it was morally wrong and indefensible. AJ was villified for a solution that made the most sense, so you'll get plenty of people defending her.

the thread is about why people are more quick to defend AJ than Rarity.

Pointing out that while Rarity is more wrong but did more to make it up to her friends kind of defeats the argument that she is 'less deserving of defense'.

 

Which is the question of the thread, so yes I am going to assume you are answering the question at hand.

 

But I did misunderstand you so you were right.

 

 

For both of you, saying her actions are indefensible (which you both did, or at least imply it) is silly. Dark actually did abstract her misdeeds onto their own, but, but abstracting and isolating one action of hers which is meant to be presented in a context and series of actions is silly.

Her contrition and generosity made her actions defensible.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Whatevs

[FNGRpony 658]

I will Sig bet you in the next rarity episode she puts herself first,

and than has to relearn "oh no i neglected my friends."

 

honestly it's the same thing fans hackle flutter shy for, being static.

If i'm wrong I'll put up any sig of your choice with in the in the bounds of forum rules for one month

if i'm right you have to put up any signature of my choice for one month.

How about it?
 

[Whatevs 377]

I will Sig bet you in the next rarity episode she puts herself first,

and than has to relearn "oh no i neglected my friends."

 

honestly it's the same thing fans hackle flutter shy for, being static.

If i'm wrong I'll put up any sig of your choice with in the in the bounds of forum rules for one month

if i'm right you have to put up any signature of my choice for one month.

How about it?

 

Firstly, no it is not the same thing as Fluttershy. This pattern of Rarity's is recent and emergent and even so, her motivations and character expression are different.

Which is more than I can say for the other 5 a lot of the time.

 

Secondly, I don't take bets. Especially not this one as I am worried they have hit this rut which will be an issue in of itself.

That said I doubt it since they teased a Sparity ep, which they vetoed last season because Rarity was uncharacteristically unkind to Spike.

 

Thirdly, "putting herself first"?

The whole point of Manehattan is that her actions are forgivable because her selflessness vastly outweighed her temporary self centeredness.

 

Fourthly,

That is not an argument.

 

And lastly, this did not occur to me but I like how you compared Dash acting at her best with Rarity acting at her worst.

Very fair.

And the examples are not as comparable as you imply. Suri screwed Rarity over in a way where Rarity had no recourse. This made her forget herself.

Lightning Dust simply angered Dash, and there was simple and easy recourse.

Dash never forgot herself because there was recourse.

 

 

If I'm mischaracterizing anything then let me know.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Whatevs

[FNGRpony 658]

Fine it's not an argument,

 

we can agree to disagree.

that said they forgave rarity because friend ship is the point of the show.  It's in the title *points to the FIM.*

 

Ever hear the video "what i learned today?" 

The lesson from return of harmony?  your friends might be jerks but their still your friends?

 

it's why I'm fine with rarity.

Cause the other 5 are fine with rarity.

 

but seriously saying her friends forgave her,

her friends forgave discord for crying out loud.

 

Like seriously, paint me a scenario where they wouldn't forgive a friend and it would make it on the show? 

(make for a neat two parter).

As for the bet i was simply looking for a means that we wouldn't continue to spin our wheels indefinitely.

But lets get back to the main theme of the thread.

AJ gets defended cause her flaws in bats revolve around her farm, and the town.

She's been told by her elders what the fruit bats did to pony ville so many moons ago.

 

And rarity mis steps are centered on her.

I kinda wouldn't mind seeing rarity stumble and make some mis steps with her heart in the right place.

 

Maybe being over protective of sweetie bell for example?
Or spike?  Or any of her friends.

 

But going back to bats they could have still had a mis step on the episode about bats doing it flutter shy's way first,

the writing staff would have just had to show the bats not cooperating.

 

which, they kinda did show they weren't.
the bats looked and acted like jerks.

 

I mean flutter shy's vision of the bats was in fact to kind.

she pictured them as cuddely and cute,

but even the audience didn't seem them like flutters did accept during her song,

which means that was only her perception.

[Literally Snails 2,307]

One reason is that Applejack did nothing wrong in bats in the first place. If you pay more attention, you'll see that Fluttershy was being completely unreasonable and Applejack was doing what any sensible farmer would do.

[Motion Spark 7,807]

One reason is that Applejack did nothing wrong in bats in the first place. If you pay more attention, you'll see that Fluttershy was being completely unreasonable and Applejack was doing what any sensible farmer would do.

I must a agree, in RL if you have a bat infestation in your apple trees, they would only reproduce and eat all of your apples, giving them a part of your orchard seems like bad idea.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I think that people have this reaction because they tend to internalize the conflict.

Applejack is just trying to get rid of a pest while Rarity is "abusing her friends"

 

Personally it blows my mind how Applejack was acting in "Bats!": she is basically saying that they are ugly, and evil and they ruin everything! I almost expected her to start handing out guns to the others. While Fluttershy actually understood the creatures ecology and how their presence can be beneficial to the orchard. Equestria is not Earth and a lot of people forget that.

 

In Rarity Takes Manehattan, the problem was about Rarity's friends and people go "OMG SHE'S ABUSING HER FRIENDS!!!" Even though the only reason they were going to Manehattan was to try and help her. The whole Hinney of the Hills thing only came later. And they are whining while they are doing what they were there to do. Granted, Rarity was not at her best, but that is the moral of the episode. Her friends understood that (even if they were whining).

 

The point is that I think that AJ's position is defensible but only if she thinks that Fluttershy is an useless doormat and Queen Applejack of the Apple Orchard can do no wrong; while Rarity's stuation was a lot more understandable. In the end, it's unfair to judge both of them too hard because AJ was scared mindless of the bats and Rarity was seeing her belief about generosity crumbling before her along with her dream.

 

Honestly, I'd blame the support characters a lot more in both episodes. Which both AJ and Rarity are in each other episode. This is a problem with the writers, not the characters in my opinion. Sure they did an awesome job but a whole shipment of Idiot Balls must have been lost around Equestria.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

how their presence can be beneficial to the orchard.

A benefit that would have taken at least a couple of years to be seen so the point is moot when it comings to being a farmer trying to survive on a yearly or even monthly basis.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

A benefit that would have taken at least a couple of years to be seen so the point is moot when it comings to being a farmer trying to survive on a yearly or even monthly basis.

If you go to the physician because you are feeling and he tells you that you are indeed sick and he then tells you that you need to take some medicine for three months, do you stop taking the medicine after feeling better two weeks later?

 

I'm saying that Flutteshy knows what she's saying, while Applejack is arguing that the things are "ugly as sin". What is the point of having a specialist if you disregard her input? After all, Fluttershy wasn't around when the bats appeared and Applejack doesn't mention a pony like her.

 

EDIT: However, Fluttershy can't say that she has peer-reviewed literature that supports her claim. I think you may be right, but then I'd say that Applejack did a bad job of present her case. Most of the time she was trying to demonize the creatures.

Edited February 20, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I'm saying that Flutteshy knows what she's saying, while Applejack is arguing that the things are "ugly as sin". What is the point of having a specialist if you disregard her opinion?

That is where you make your mistake. Fluttershy may be a specialist when it comes to animals in general bit says she has never met a vampire fruit bats... meaning in this situation Applejack is the expert since she and her family have experiance with this animal when Fluttershy does not.

Edited February 20, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

That is where you make your mistake. Fluttershy may be a specialist when it comes to animals in general bit says she has never met a vampire fruit bats... meaning in this situation Applejack is the expert since she and her family have experiance with this animal when Fluttershy does not.

She also says that all she needs is time to learn their language. But Applejack is insane in doing whatever it is she wanted to do with the bats before Twilight's plan even came up. Makes me wonder if the ponies even know what they are doing with the whole care for the animals thing in Winter Wrap Up.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

She also says that all she needs is time to learn their language. But Applejack is insane in doing whatever it is she wanted to do with the bats before Twilight's plan even came up. Makes me wonder if the ponies even know what they are doing with the whole care for the animals thing in Winter Wrap Up.

Well you can't blame Applejack for freaking out, the bats had devastated her family's farm in the past.

 

Also I do believe. Fluttershy had try to talk to the bats but failed, while more and more of the apples were being made unedible.

Edited February 20, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[GameytheGeemer 147]

I don't care about Rarity's actions, only because I see them as justified.

 

The only reason I think Applejack has more ground to be like that is because it's not just her money that's at risk, it's all she's ever known and cared for.

 

Combine that with the fact that vampire fruit bats were demonized like muslims to the crusaders and that they presented a much more imminent danger (what with the biggest cash intake being ruined and the farm being on the verge of constant financial ruin) where as there are ALWAYS more fashion contests that Rarity can take part in. And it would only make sense for her to come in second or third place until she's made more of a name as a fashionista (instead of national hero) and big wig in cities that aren't Canterlot.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Well you can't blame Applejack for freaking out, the bats had devastated her family's farm in the past.

 

Also I do believe. Fluttershy had try to talk to the bats but failed, while more and more of the apples were being made unedible.

Well, I think that no one can blame Applejack for that. It's like receiving stuff from the night shift in the morning... Easy for me to be critical of Applejack sitting in my chair with a lot of apples in the refrigerator.

 

Yes. She tried to talk to the bats and failed, then she said that she needed more time. I guess that the problem here is that I may be putting too much faith in Fluttershy. But I'll use my physician analogy again: you said that Fluttershy never had contact with that specific species of fruit bats. And it's true, but I'm thinking that still, she has more knowledge on dealing with animals in general than Applejack. So, if you have to treat someone but doesn't have a specialist, I think that the generalist is preferable to someone without any training in the area. In my understanding, Applejack knows about trees and running a farm. Even if she has some knowledge in dealing with pests, it's very basic in relation to what Fluttershy would know.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

Well, I think that no one can blame Applejack for that. It's like receiving stuff from the night shift in the morning... Easy for me to be critical of Applejack sitting in my chair with a lot of apples in the refrigerator.

 

Yes. She tried to talk to the bats and failed, then she said that she needed more time. I guess that the problem here is that I may be putting too much faith in Fluttershy. But I'll use my physician analogy again: you said that Fluttershy never had contact with that specific species of fruit bats. And it's true, but I'm thinking that still, she has more knowledge on dealing with animals in general than Applejack. So, if you have to treat someone but doesn't have a specialist, I think that the generalist is preferable to someone without any training in the area. In my understanding, Applejack knows about trees and running a farm. Even if she has some knowledge in dealing with pests, it's very basic in relation to what Fluttershy would know.

The big issue is Applejack didn't have time for Fluttershy to 'hopefully' get th bats to see reason, especially since by the time that could happen everything coild be gone.

 

That and the Gala is proof that Fluttershy is not always good with animals, she has simply had time to build a relationship with Ponuville animals.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

The big issue is Applejack didn't have time for Fluttershy to 'hopefully' get th bats to see reason, especially since by the time that could happen everything coild be gone.

 

That and the Gala is proof that Fluttershy is not always good with animals, she has simply had time to build a relationship with Ponuville animals.

I'd say that Applejack THINKS she doesn't have the time. Because she didn't take Fluttershy seriously. My original point was that Applejack makes a bad presentation of her case. All she did was say that the bats would destroy everything and they are ugly, and they are evil, and they don't care about "nada". She is letting her biased view on the creatures demonize them in her judgment.

 

And I got the feeling that, Fluttershy only did that in the Gala because she was too anxious to see the animals and really wasn't at the top of her game with the creatures. It's the only occasion where that happens so far, and I think that was part of the moral. Going in too hard gets you nothing.

[Whatevs 377]

Fine it's not an argument,

 

we can agree to disagree.

that said they forgave rarity because friend ship is the point of the show. It's in the title *points to the FIM.*

 

Ever hear the video "what i learned today?"

The lesson from return of harmony? your friends might be jerks but their still your friends?

 

it's why I'm fine with rarity.

Cause the other 5 are fine with rarity.

 

but seriously saying her friends forgave her,

her friends forgave discord for crying out loud.

 

Like seriously, paint me a scenario where they wouldn't forgive a friend and it would make it on the show?

(make for a neat two parter).

As for the bet i was simply looking for a means that we wouldn't continue to spin our wheels indefinitely.

But lets get back to the main theme of the thread.

AJ gets defended cause her flaws in bats revolve around her farm, and the town.

She's been told by her elders what the fruit bats did to pony ville so many moons ago.

 

And rarity mis steps are centered on her.

I kinda wouldn't mind seeing rarity stumble and make some mis steps with her heart in the right place.

 

Maybe being over protective of sweetie bell for example?

Or spike? Or any of her friends.

 

But going back to bats they could have still had a mis step on the episode about bats doing it flutter shy's way first,

the writing staff would have just had to show the bats not cooperating.

 

which, they kinda did show they weren't.

the bats looked and acted like jerks.

 

I mean flutter shy's vision of the bats was in fact to kind.

she pictured them as cuddely and cute,

but even the audience didn't seem them like flutters did accept during her song,

which means that was only her perception.

I agree but the point is that Rarity did a lot to make it up to her friends, which overshadows the fact that she behaved worse.

[Holly Dash 11]

I personally think that Rarity was not treating her friends badly. I mean, she WAS, but only because of the fact that she was doing what she thought was the right thing. Suri got into Rarity's head that she didn't need friends, and that it was "everypony for themselves." You can't blame Rarity for that.

 

AJ on the other hand, or hoof, so to speak, was just being plain RUDE. Taking it out on Fluttershy that she wanted to help the bats, and the apple farm. She was in the right. Twilight, the "master of friendship," "Princess Friendship Master," sided with Applejack. I mean, Pinkie was doing her thing, peer pressure, and Rarity is a girly-girl who can't stand the filth. Dash adores her cider. That leaves Twilight. I think-- no I know, that Twi's favorite mane six friend is Jack. They are close. That doesn't mean that Flutters should be ignored and taken advantage of. Her kindness is a virtue, not a hack source.

 

That's my opinion

[FNGRpony 658]

I agree but the point is that Rarity did a lot to make it up to her friends, which overshadows the fact that she behaved worse.

Look the thread (which is still going asks) how come fans defend apple jack, more than rarity takes main hatten.

when ever you get an answer your go "NOPE!"

 

.......  Why the hell did you ask?

But I'll give one more answer.

 

apple jack at worst treated a bunch of bats

no on the show, or off the show likes.

No one on this sight says "vampire fruit bats are best pony."

they were jerks.

they were painted to be jerks..

Their universally accepted as bad animals, accept to flutter shy,

and even flutter shy's supports don't like the vampire fruit bats.

to which you will reply "but rarity."

 

no.... not rarity anything.

Apple jack stood against a bunch of jerks that endangered the lives of the town, and her family..

 

That's why..

you can either accept or re phrase the thread "I'm going to keep commenting on rarity takes main hatten till you agree with me."

I won't, I don't, and i'd rather have a stake of holly driven into my heart and boiled in my own pudding.

 

^^.

Rarity could have cured pony aids after being a bitch, her motives on why she acted poorly is why people defend apple jack.

Not only defend but take 0 issue with in the first place.

[Bimbola2005 15]

Huh, it’s pretty interesting seeing old threads like this one, and seeing how divided people were at these episodes, in a time when they were recent. It makes me wonder if the people in this thread still holds the same opinion or not.(Also, now I’m even more conflicted about these episodes after reading everyone’s opinions and can’t have a decisive stance on them lol)

[Sparklefan1234 170,611]

I'm on both Applejack and Rarity's sides in "BATS!" and "Rarity Takes Manehatthan". 

[RDDash 19,173]

I don't defend Applejack, she didn't listen to Fluttershy who told her that bats are useful for her apples. Like, her granny couldn't tell her the same thing.