How come fans defend Applejack more in Bats! than Rarity in Rarity Takes Mane...

[Scootadress 360]

Its a stupid question, but when I talk to people at school who ARE MLP fans, they typically defended AJ's stance in Bats! and then belittled Rarity's stance in her episode.

 

Not being bias here, I find that AJ and Rarity were acting the same in both episodes. The situations were different, however. Applejack was afraid for her farm, I get that. However, they defended her when she was clearly being very pushy to her friends in the episode. Like many state, she is one of those ponies that is "aggressive' in driving their point. However, she still was as mean to her friends. 

 

Rarity was mean to her friends because of her profession like Applejack to her orchard. If it weren't for her outfits and, to a lower degree, the gems she gets by searching everywhere (which can be very dangerous, might I add.)she will lose her own money in the long run. Its the same as AJ's dilemma with the bats. Only difference would be that Rarity was highly annoyed by what happened and took this out on her friends. However, it is quite understandable. Your dresses are bucking stolen. Your fabric taken. You can't get anymore. All this when you need these things the most. On top, her friends didn't actually want to help her either at first. They don't really see why she was in the hissy fit either. Applejack actually comments on that. They were supposed to be there for her, but they weren't exactly. (Wait, in Suited for Success, Fluttershy could sew. Where is this ability now?)

 

Its not fair how Applejack can be favored in her episode for doing the best she could, but when Rarity is at a loss for what she can do, she's being an instabitch.  

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

Finally someone who sees it my way.

 

Yeah, since Rarity's debut in Rarity takes Manehattan, many have been criticizing her actions and character due to the problems she has faced like going at it towards her friends.

 

However, what most fail to learn is that she DOES come to analyze her mistakes and instantly realizes what she has done wrong and chooses her friends over winning.

 

Rarity has it tougher this season, but along with others, I'll be glad to defend her.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I'd have to say, that I never noticed this problem.

 

I know that AJ was proving their point to Fluttershy, even though they were circling her like a pack of wolves to show why AJ had to defend her home and her apples.

 

I'll defend Rarity though, since she knew she was in the wrong and finally came to her senses with learning that she made her mistakes. She didn't care whether she won or not, as long as her friends were still with her.

 

I'll defend both of them, since their professions are what can help them achieve their goals in life.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Scootalove

[hawkflame 3,308]

As much of a Rarity fan as I am, even I'll admit that Rarity's pushiness was more severe than Aj's. The whole point was that she did take things a little too far and took her friends for granted. AJ did what she needed to do, but she wasn't guilt tripping her friends into helping- or at least not as badly as Rarity. I don't think AJ was excessively nasty, but Rarity may have gone a little too extreme.

 

But at the same time, it's not fair to just dismiss Rarity as being a bitch. Her actions were understandable, if a bit excessive. She was just frustrated at the very cold and cynical lesson Suri taught her about generosity, and lashed out.

 

I mean, geez. Did these guys actually watch the whole episode or just that one scene out of context?

[Scootadress 360]

I'd have to say, that I never noticed this problem.

 

I know that AJ was proving their point to Fluttershy, even though they were circling her like a pack of wolves to show why AJ had to defend her home and her apples.

 

I'll defend Rarity though, since she knew she was in the wrong and finally came to her senses with learning that she made her mistakes. She didn't care whether she won or not, as long as her friends were still with her.

So was Rarity with her designs. Its her livelyhood. Yeah, AJ's family and all but Rarity needs food on her plate too. Rarity was more or less, just as defensive because of her own money. She can't gem hunt for her cash multiple times. The fabrics here cost a fortune. If two bits equate to a tomato I don't want to figure how much fabric costs. Not only that, but remember your delivering with multiple copies in a world where clothing is not as needed. Basically, being social us high. I don't doubt her store doesn't make much. Going to NYC seems to be a ton. Heck, it took a day for AJ to ruin her buisness. I can't see why she wouldn't be this way. (As stressed and angry)

As much of a Rarity fan as I am, even I'll admit that Rarity's pushiness was more severe than Aj's. The whole point was that she did take things a little too far and took her friends for granted. AJ did what she needed to do, but she wasn't guilt tripping her friends into helping- or at least not as badly as Rarity. I don't think AJ was excessively nasty, but Rarity may have gone a little too extreme.

But at the same time, it's not fair to just dismiss Rarity as being a bitch. Her actions were understandable, if a bit excessive. She was just frustrated at the very cold and cynical lesson Suri taught her about generosity, and lashed out.

I mean, geez. Did these guys actually watch the whole episode or just that one scene out of context?

Refer to above and yes. Though, I find hers less severe than AJs because of her song portrayal. Edited February 16, 2014 by Scootadress

[Scootalove 10,684]

So was Rarity with her designs. Its her livelyhood. Yeah, AJ's family and all but Rarity needs food on her plate too. Rarity was more or less, just as defensive because of her own money. She can't gem hunt for her cash multiple times. The fabrics here cost a fortune. If two bits equate to a tomato I don't want to figure how much fabric costs. Not only that, but remember your delivering with multiple copies in a world where clothing is not as needed. Basically, being social us high. I don't doubt her store doesn't make much. Going to NYC seems to be a ton. Heck, it took a day for AJ to ruin her buisness. I can't see why she wouldn't be this way. (As stressed and angry)

They have a right to be defensive, and I won't count Rarity and AJ out since they both have goals in their professions that can help them reach the accomplishments they want to achieve in life. Seriously though, people need to calm down with defending one or other because they both had their mistakes and problems.

[Scootadress 360]

They have a right to be defensive, and I won't count Rarity and AJ out since they both have goals in their professions that can help them reach the accomplishments they want to achieve in life. Seriously though, people need to calm down with defending one or other because they both had their mistakes and problems.

Agreed. Though, typically I defend Rares because I can't see how a business like hers can stand but fall in a day.

[Scootalove 10,684]

Agreed. Though, typically I defend Rares because I can't see how a business like hers can stand but fall in a day.

If you want to defend the pony that was in the right, then you can.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

I didn't see this problem at all, and believe me, I have it set to get an on-site notification everytime someone replies to the show discussion topic for Rarity Takes Manehattan.

 

I little else but praise for that episode; and the negativity was either easy to stamp out or just "SPIKE ABUSE WAH" (because, I know that's just a nitpick. You can complain about it when I see you talk about Spike in some other form than defending him from big bad Rarity.) 

 

I didn't see too much Rarity belittlement for her behavior in RTM; and I like to think we took care of most of it and molded it into being constructive criticism instead of destructive criticism for Simple Ways

[Clarity 3,094]

 

 

Not being bias here, I find that AJ and Rarity were acting the same in both episodes. The situations were different, however. Applejack was afraid for her farm, I get that. However, they defended her when she was clearly being very pushy to her friends in the episode. Like many state, she is one of those ponies that is "aggressive' in driving their point. However, she still was as mean to her friends.    Rarity was mean to her friends because of her profession like Applejack to her orchard. If it weren't for her outfits and, to a lower degree, the gems she gets by searching everywhere (which can be very dangerous, might I add.)she will lose her own money in the long run. Its the same as AJ's dilemma with the bats. Only difference would be that Rarity was highly annoyed by what happened and took this out on her friends. However, it is quite understandable. Your dresses are bucking stolen. Your fabric taken. You can't get anymore. All this when you need these things the most. On top, her friends didn't actually want to help her either at first. They don't really see why she was in the hissy fit either. Applejack actually comments on that. They were supposed to be there for her, but they weren't exactly. (Wait, in Suited for Success, Fluttershy could sew. Where is this ability now?)   Its not fair how Applejack can be favored in her episode for doing the best she could, but when Rarity is at a loss for what she can do, she's being an instabitch.  

 

In both cases, something important to them was in jeopardy.

 

Applejack was being pushy because her entire crop and food source of Ponyville was in danger, but Fluttershy cared only about the bats. Rarity was annoyed because her dresses were being plagiarized, but her friends put a musical at a higher priority. I find both ponies to be fully justified in lashing out in frustration – anyone in the same situations would do the same.

 

And I see a lot of people slandering Applejack for her apparent "bullying" of Fluttershy, so I doubt she was favored. Even if she was, Rarity was kind of working her friends a bit – a possible reason for the "belittling" of Rarity in RTM that you might have noticed.

[Scootadress 360]

In both cases, something important to them was in jeopardy.

 

Applejack was being pushy because her entire crop and food source of Ponyville was in danger, but Fluttershy cared only about the bats. Rarity was annoyed because her dresses were being plagiarized, but her friends put a musical at a higher priority. I find both ponies to be fully justified in lashing out in frustration – anyone in the same situations would do the same.

 

And I see a lot of people slandering Applejack for her apparent "bullying" of Fluttershy, so I doubt she was favored. Even if she was, Rarity was kind of working her friends a bit – a possible reason for the "belittling" of Rarity in RTM that you might have noticed.

I have to wonder why Ponyville doesn't have a bigger food supplier other than the Apples.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Finally someone who sees it my way.

 

Yeah, since Rarity's debut in Rarity takes Manehattan, many have been criticizing her actions and character due to the problems she has faced like going at it towards her friends.

 

However, what most fail to learn is that she DOES come to analyze her mistakes and instantly realizes what she has done wrong and chooses her friends over winning.

 

Rarity has it tougher this season, but along with others, I'll be glad to defend her.

Actually, I don't think that's the case at all.

 

Rarity has had it great this season, and I keep seeing more and more Rarity love everywhere I turn It's truly a heartwarming feeling.

 

Furthermore, I do defend Rarity quite a bit; I'm always there and always ready to be her shield, and I think most people on this site know that; the Rarity hate I've seen has been in small quantities and very easy to disprove; I've hardly even broke a sweat defending her this season, tbh.

 

Also, I get wonderful PMs from members all of the time telling me how they changed their mind about Rarity It's really great to see.

 

Honestly, I think this season is Rarity's best performance, and I think people are noticing that

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by ghostfacekiller39

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

Actually, I don't think that's the case at all.

 

Rarity has had it great this season, and I keep seeing more and more Rarity love everywhere I turn It's truly a heartwarming feeling.

 

Furthermore, I do defend Rarity quite a bit; I'm always there and always ready to be her shield, and I think most people on this site know that; the Rarity hate I've seen has been in small quantities and very easy to disprove; I've hardly even broke a sweat defending her this season, tbh.

 

Also, I get wonderful PMs from members all of the time telling me how they changed their mind about Rarity It's really great to see.

 

Honestly, I think this season is Rarity's best performance, and I think people are noticing that

 

Oh well of course, she's well loved here, which I also appreciate that there's so many fans who love her just like you and me.

 

However, believe it or not, outside of the forums, Rarity is very hated upon from what I've seen, with some very high remarks on how she is a manupalitive succubus, which is completely wrong and the opposite of what she really is.

 

Overall, I'd defend her to the end as well, she's amazing, and a one of a kind character with a personality and trait only a true fan will love.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

Oh well of course, she's well loved here, which I also appreciate that there's so many fans who love her just like you and me.

 

However, believe it or not, outside of the forums, Rarity is very hated upon from what I've seen, with some very high remarks on how she is a manupalitive succubus, which is completely wrong and the opposite of what she really is.

 

Overall, I'd defend her to the end as well, she's amazing, and a one of a kind character with a personality and trait only a true fan will love.

Eh. I don't hang out around other places for that very reason, to be perfectly honest

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

Eh. I don't hang out around other places for that very reason, to be perfectly honest

It's basically anywhere outside of the forums, but yeah, haters are very unrelenting, so be careful pal.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,857]

It's basically anywhere outside of the forums, but yeah, haters are very unrelenting, so be careful pal.

Again, I still don't think it's as bad as it's being made out to be; I've been to other places outside of here, and let me say that our eyes attach to the negative. I still believe the majority of the fandom is positive about Rarity, you just have to look for it just as much as you look for the negatives.

[Nohbdy 4,108]

It's basically anywhere outside of the forums, but yeah, haters are very unrelenting, so be careful pal.

The issue is relative, not absolute. Yes, Rarity gets a lot of hate, but relatively speaking, she gets a lot less now than she did in the past. In fact, I'd say she's getting a lot more love, as well.

 

Even EQD, for all their love of drama and character bashing, chose Rarity as the best of Season 4, as of January 12, 2014:

Contrast this with Season 2 from the same site:

 

That's a rather massive change in favor of Rarity.

 

Again, though, that's not to say that there aren't haters, but generally speaking, Rarity is getting a lot of appreciation this season. As for why AJ got more support, it's because she was being far more rational than Fluttershy was. Her decision was simply better, and many fans (including myself) agreed with her point of view. On the other hand, I think most can agree that Rarity wasn't exactly doing the right thing in RTM. 

 

Just my two cents.

[~Silver Essence~ 2,621]

The issue is relative, not absolute. Yes, Rarity gets a lot of hate, but relatively speaking, she gets a lot less now than she did in the past. In fact, I'd say she's getting a lot more love, as well.

 

Even EQD, for all their love of drama and character bashing, chose Rarity as the best of Season 4, as of January 12, 2014:

Contrast this with Season 2 from the same site:

 

That's a rather massive change in favor of Rarity.

 

Again, though, that's not to say that there aren't haters, but generally speaking, Rarity is getting a lot of appreciation this season. As for why AJ got more support, it's because she was being far more rational than Fluttershy was. Her decision was simply better, and many fans (including myself) agreed with her point of view. On the other hand, I think most can agree that Rarity wasn't exactly doing the right thing in RTM. 

 

Just my two cents.

Thanks for the clear up Aquila.

 

I guess times do change for the better over time, maybe it was since season 2 that she was last truly hated, despite some still out there.

[Shine 166]

I actually defended Rarity in "Rarity Takes Manehattan" but did not approve of Applejack's behavior in "Bats!"

 

1. Rarity was having a mental breakdown.  No one is ever reasonable or nice in this kind of situation.  She was just trying to be the nice and generous person that she is and had it blow up in her face, and her first instinct was "being nice gets me stomped on; I need to do something different, QUICKLY!"  She was in a panic and turned to her most available "resource" -- her friends -- to help her get out of a sticky situation.

 

Of course, she was wrong to treat them that way, but it's basic human (umm...  pony) nature.  It's not like she planned out her abuse with a level head.

 

Plus, Rarity is justified by her selfless act of giving up her chance at winning in order to make things right with her friends.

 

2. Applejack, on the other hand, actually did have time to think.  Yes, she was also in a bit of a panic, but it's not like she was having (or is the kind of pony who would have) a mental breakdown the way Rarity was.  She saw a problem, and she thought of a solution.  She then stuck by her solution with a stubbornness that would shame a mule.

 

Applejack's sin was not that she wanted to do whatever it took to get rid of the bats.  What she did wrong was to go to the ONE pony who had moral convictions against the plan and demand that she had to GO AGAINST HER OWN BELIEFS because Applejack's farm was more important.  She wasn't just rude to everypony.  She singled out Fluttershy specifically.  

 

Rarity only inconvenienced her friends; she didn't try to make them do anything they believed was wrong.

 

Plus, in the end of "Bats!" Applejack doesn't commit a selfless act to make up with Fluttershy.  She apologizes and decides that it might be worth a shot to give Fluttershy's idea a try, but she still feels that her farm is the most important thing, and if the problem were to arise again, she would most likely repeat her utter disregard for her friend's feelings, seeing them as childish and ignorant.

[Ianpiersonjdavis 512]

Just for the record; I have never defended Applejack in 'Bats!' and frowned upon her and the rest of the Mane Six ganging up on Fluttershy.

 

I believe that the reason is because there are other fans that just don't like Rarity (as is the case with a friend of mine), only others will look for any excuse to attack her because of their disdain and feel sorry for Applejack being a 'background pony' (despite having at least ONE episode in every. single. season.)

 

So I think audience bias has lot to do with it.

[DubWolf 16,617]

Well in Bats!, Apple Jack wasn't asking the mane 6 to do something they wouldn't want to do (except Fluttershy who tries to defend the bats), while in Rarity Takes Manehattan, Rarity seems selfish since she's asking the mane 6 to give up their time with the play to help her with her dresses, even though Rarity is the reason that they were there in the first place.

 

Apple Jack's orchard was probably more important to the other ponies for its agricultural significance (apples for everyone!!) than Rarity's desire to win the uh, contest thing?

 

I agree there's some unfairness on how one character is defended but not the other for a similar situation.

[Shine 166]

Well in Bats!, Apple Jack wasn't asking the mane 6 to do something they wouldn't want to do (except Fluttershy who tries to defend the bats), while in Rarity Takes Manehattan, Rarity seems selfish since she's asking the mane 6 to give up their time with the play to help her with her dresses, even though Rarity is the reason that they were there in the first place.

 

Okay, here's the problem I have with this logic:  "...something they wouldn't want to do..."

 

Want.

 

There's a difference between asking someone to do something inconvenient -- something she doesn't want to do -- and asking  that person to do something that is against her personal beliefs about right and wrong.

 

Which is worse: making someone do your chores for you, or asking that person to kill/steal/lie/cheat/etc. for you?

 

That's why I do not defend Applejack's behavior in "Bats!"

[DubWolf 16,617]

Okay, here's the problem I have with this logic:  "...something they wouldn't want to do..."

 

Want.

 

There's a difference between asking someone to do something inconvenient -- something she doesn't want to do -- and asking  that person to do something that is against her personal beliefs about right and wrong.

 

Which is worse: making someone do your chores for you, or asking that person to kill/steal/lie/cheat/etc. for you?

 

That's why I do not defend Applejack's behavior in "Bats!"

I'm a bit of unsure of what you mean, let's draw it out a bit more.

 

It is worse for someone to do the latter of your example, although I didn't see Apple Jack as wanting the mane 6 to kill/steal/lie/cheat (well unless AJ was blistering with fury that she would go far enough to execute the bats).

[Grumpy Enchantress 586]

Why is nobody defending Pinkie Pie's hilariousness in today's episode?

[Shine 166]

I didn't see Apple Jack as wanting the mane 6 to kill/steal/lie/cheat (well unless AJ was blistering with fury that she would go far enough to execute the bats).

 

I used "kill/steal/lie/cheat" as an example, because I felt that maybe they would be sins that you and other humans could more easily identify as "wrong."

 

My point was that Fluttershy doesn't just "not want" to help Applejack; she feels that what Applejack is asking her to do is wrong, but Applejack basically says that if Fluttershy doesn't put aside her morals for her sake, then she's not a good friend.

 

When you truly care about someone, you shouldn't place your own needs and values ahead of hers.  If she believes that something is wrong, you should let her believe that and not try to force her to do something she thinks is bad.  For you, it might be killing or stealing,  but for Fluttershy it was changing the bats.