Princess or Alicorn - what's worse and what's better?

[Manman20x6 359]

Many of the anti-Twilicorn folks are angry because their personal headcanons were disproven when Twilight ascended to princesshood. We knew very little about alicorns, other than their power level being higher than that of other ponies, so people came up with theories that alicorns are deities that have ruled for millennia, despite the fact that these theories are not proven in the show. When Twilight Sparkle became an alicorn, it showed us that alicorns are not necessarily ancient gods, and many people had a hard time reconciling this revelation with their image of almighty divine alicorns.

[Vixor 80]

I don't mind Twilight becoming either, as she's earned it and it does feel like progression of the overall storyline of MLP FIM. The long term effects on the show can be mostly positive if the writers handle it correctly, though how that will go is a mystery as we have yet to see much 'princess-y' related things. Not to undermine the people who do dislike the idea though; I can see why you might find it upsetting or concerning.

 

Although I do wish they would make more of her status, I'm fully on board with our Purple Princess. Alicorn=Princess and you can't have one without the other. I also strongly believe that her ascention can be supported by canon and does make sense in the context of the show.

If you want to headcanon that all alicorns are princesses or all princesses are alicorns, then by all means do so, but that is indeed merely your headcanon, so please try not go talking about it like it's actually canon. It might also be worth nothing that Diamond Tiara said Twilight was a princess AND an alicorn, and I think one other character said that too, but I don't remember who and it was quite possibly from someone in the IDW comics anyway.

 

As for my thoughts/opinion/headcanon on the matter, I am of the firm opinion that any pony can potentially ascend to alicornhood, since it's an earned position and is seemingly only gifted by Celestia herself(?). With that in mind, I unfortunately find myself strongly opposed to the headcanon that all alicorns must be princesses, because that potentially implies that a stallion could not ascend, which I personally think is nonsense. Unless of course you want to suggest that 'princess' might be gender neutral in Equestria, in which case I'd have no comment 

Edited March 20, 2014 by Vixor

[Nature's Spell 526]

I don't mind Twilight becoming either, as she's earned it and it does feel like progression of the overall storyline of MLP FIM. The long term effects on the show can be mostly positive if the writers handle it correctly, though how that will go is a mystery as we have yet to see much 'princess-y' related things. Not to undermine the people who do dislike the idea though; I can see why you might find it upsetting or concerning.

 

If you want to headcanon that all alicorns are princesses or all princesses are alicorns, then by all means do so, but that is indeed merely your headcanon, so please try not go talking about it like it's actually canon. It might also be worth nothing that Diamond Tiara said Twilight was a princess AND an alicorn, and I think one other character said that too, but I don't remember who and it was quite possibly from someone in the IDW comics anyway.

 

As for my thoughts/opinion/headcanon on the matter, I am of the firm opinion that any pony can ascend to alicornhood, since it's an earned position and is seemingly only gifted by Celestia herself(?). With that in mind, I unfortunately find myself strongly opposed to the headcanon that all alicorns must be princesses, because that potentially implies that a stallion could not ascend, which I personally think is nonsense for reasons that I feel are a little obvious. Unless of course you want to suggest that 'princess' might be gender neutral in Equestria, in which case I'd have no comment

In the context of the show, right now, my statement is 100% correct. Every princess on the show is also an Alicorn. :-) Now my post may have been too absolute, but I wasn't attempting to make an exhaustive study of the titles and leadership positions of Equestria. Obviously the writers can change things at anytime by introducing a princess who is not an Alicorn. For example, Princess Platinum was not an Alicorn. And we have stallions with the title of King, but who were also not Alicorns.

 

Here's a head canon for you. Since unification of the three tribes every leader in Equestria is an Alicorn.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Vixor 80]

In the context of the show, right now, my statement is 100% correct. Every princess on the show is also an Alicorn. :-) Now my post may have been too absolute, but I wasn't attempting to make an exhaustive study of the titles and leadership positions of Equestria. Obviously the writers can change things at anytime by introducing a princess who is not an Alicorn. For example, Princess Platinum was not an Alicorn. And we have stallions with the title of King, but who were also not Alicorns. If it's on the show it's not a head canon.

Yes, in the context of the show, all currently known alicorns are princesses, that much is obvious. But you seemed to be making the assumption that alicorns HAVE to be princesses, including ones that we might not know of, or ones that might exist in the past or will exist in the future. If you were just making the meta statement that all the alicorns we know of for the time being are princesses, then perhaps you slightly misworded that post, as it did not seem to be the case.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Vixor

[Nature's Spell 526]

Yes, in the context of the show, all currently known alicorns are princesses, that much is obvious. But you seemed to be making the assumption that all alicorns HAVE to be princesses, including ones that we might not know of, or ones that might exist in the past or will exist in the future. If you were just making the meta statement that all the alicorns we know of for the time being are princesses, then perhaps you slightly misworded that post as it did not seem to be the case.

So what if I am making that statement? Personally I don't think they existed before unification, but we have no proof of that so it is a head canon. Ponies could have any number of titles, but right now we have no proof that an Alicorn can exist and not have some Royal title. We can only go with what we see in the show.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

@@Vixor,@@Nature's Spell,  From MMC transcription...

 

Applejack: Twilight? Is that you?

Rest of main cast: [gasps]

Applejack: Wha... I-I've never seen anything like it!

Rainbow Dash: Ha! Twilight's got wings! Awesome! A new flying buddy! [laughs]

Rarity: Why, you've become an Alicorn. I didn't even know that was possible.

Pinkie Pie: [screaming] Alicorn party! [blows party kazoo]

[crowd cheering]

Fluttershy: Wow... You look just like a princess!

Princess Celestia: That's because she is a princess.

If she looks just like a princess because she's become an alicorn...

Edited March 20, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[Nature's Spell 526]

@@Vixor,@@Nature's Spell, From MMC transcription...

 

If she looks just like a princess because she's become an alicorn...

Yes! Excellent point. Fluttershy is equating being a princess with the only body form she's known for one and that is an Alicorn. Look Vixor I respect your views and all I ask is you respect mine.

[Vixor 80]

So what if I am making that statement? Personally I don't think they existed before unification, but we have no proof of that so it is a head canon. Ponies could have any number of titles, but right now we have no proof that an Alicorn can exist and not have some Royal title.

You seem to be misinterpreting what i'm trying to say, which is not surprising since I'm terrible at explaining things. Anyway, I think that alicorns need to have a royal title too, and I never said that I didn't think that, or at the least I didn't mean to. What I've been trying to say, is that I think princesses AND princes can ascend if they properly earn it. Maybe other royal titles like king and queen too, but that's kinda unknown. Maybe princess and prince are the highest title, rather than king and queen? Who knows, alicorns are overly mysterious and lack any sort of serious explanation in the canon.

 

@@Vixor,@@Nature's Spell,  From MMC transcription...

 

If she looks just like a princess because she's become an alicorn...

 

I'm new to editing posts with new quotes, hope I don't botch this up...

 

Anyway, maybe that does imply that all princesses are alicorns, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all alicorns are princesses. Also kind of odd for her to say since they seem to have have had princesses that weren't alicorns before, such as Princess Platinum, though maybe alicorns didn't exist back then like Nature said. Then again, the royal sisters were on the flag they used, so unless they just used the modern version as a replacement for the play...

 

Yes! Excellent point. Fluttershy is equating being a princess with the only body form she's known for one and that is an Alicorn. Look Vixor I respect your views and all I ask is you respect mine.

I'm sorry if you feel that I intended to disrespect your views, as I didn't mean to send that message. Like I said, I have no issue with what you headcanon and I think that making new headcanons for things is great, but it's a little bothersome for me when headcanon and the actual canon start to mix, if that's a good way of wording it.

 

Oh, by the way... what of the whole Diamond Tiara saying "princess AND alicorn" thing? And I could have sworn that same line has been mentioned somewhere else in the show or IDW comics... does anybody remember where?

Edited March 20, 2014 by Vixor

[Katana 298]

I don't think it'll be possible to wake you up if you stopped watching because of an instance in which she contributed to the resolution. She didn't say anything to make her seem as if she is a tyrant, and didn't succumb to the tropes in any way. In that same episode she proves that she still has a lot to learn, such as: not being dismissive of others fears, not getting so wrapped up in books that you're oblivious to the situation, and not to jump to conclusions. Remember too that princess is a different title in Equestria, it means a ruler with great power chosen as a protector for their deeds. You stated Twilight very much took on a leadership role in the previous seasons, so this is just another logical step up, right? Also, that last line just makes you come across as childish.

 

You don't have to like the show, I don't care, but your reasoning right now just seems like a close-minded interpretation of the events in the show.

Wow, really? Disliking something makes me closed-minded? I disagree with plenty of negative things people have said about the show, but I feel they have all due rights to think that way. And is it not okay to be childish? It's a child's show. I like the show when it's funny and silly about things.

 

If you want to be "mature" about my opinions, then instead of turning a discussion into a hostile confrontation, let me recommend something for you to say. "Well, I'm sad to hear your opinions of the show have dropped so much. I can't say I really agree with, or understand your reasoning for disliking recent episodes, especially because I've been enjoying it. Hope you either give it another shot sometime, or find another show you enjoy."

[Nature's Spell 526]

You seem to be misinterpreting what i'm trying to say, which is not surprising since I'm terrible at explaining things. Anyway, I think that alicorns need to have a royal title too, and I never said that I didn't think that, or at the least I didn't mean to. What I've been trying to say, is that I think princesses AND princes can ascend if they properly earn it. Maybe other royal titles like king and queen too, but that's kinda unknown. Maybe princess and prince are the highest title, rather than king and queen? Who knows, alicorns are overly mysterious and lack any sort of serious explanation in the canon.

 

 

I'm new to editing posts with new quotes, hope I don't botch this up...

 

Anyway, maybe that does imply that all princesses are alicorns, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all alicorns are princesses. Also kind of odd for her to say since they seem to have have had princesses that weren't alicorns before, such as Princess Platinum, though maybe alicorns didn't exist back then like Nature said. Then again, the royal sisters were on the flag they used, so unless they just used the modern version as a replacement for the play...

 

I'm sorry if you feel that I intended to disrespect your views, as I didn't mean to send that message. Like I said, I have no issue with what you headcanon and I think that making new headcanons for things is great, but it's a little bothersome for me when headcanon and the actual canon start to mix, if that's a good way of wording it.

 

Oh, by the way... what of the whole Diamond Tiara saying "princess AND alicorn" thing? And I could have sworn that same line has been mentioned somewhere else in the show or IDW comics... does anybody remember where?

We have so little information on Alicorns; we really don't know what their parameters are and that really sucks. I often wonder, with questions like this, if the writers even know. No worries. I'm just not used having to defend my posts. LOL We all hope, I think, that our head canons show up in the show because it implies we can divine what the writers are thinking-a heady idea indeed. As far as DT's statement I think she was implying that having a horn and wings was awesomely cool.

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

 

 

Anyway, maybe that does imply that all princesses are alicorns, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all alicorns are princesses. Also kind of odd for her to say since they seem to have have had princesses that weren't alicorns before, such as Princess Platinum, though maybe alicorns didn't exist back then like Nature said. Then again, the royal sisters were on the flag they used, so unless they just used the modern version as a replacement for the play...

 

Platinum is from before they discovered the Magic of Friendship. The whole of Twilight's and Cadance's "ascension" depends on this. ......... It was a different time in the pony Old Testament.   I'm guessing that they had a different system.

 

You right in one thing, though. We can't be absolutely sure that there are not alicorns who aren't princesses or princesses who aren't alicorns in the present. After all, Blueblood is a prince... I just think that MMC puts both Twilight and Cadance on a different level. Damn. This show is a mess in this subject. But because of that episode I don't feel too bad about assuming that alicorns and princesses are connected, until the show tells us otherwise.

[Batbrony 16,056]

Honestly, I really haven't been opposed to either change.  I mean, I guess the alicorn change has been decidedly cheesier, what with all the "flying shenanigans" that have popped up here and there (though to be fair DHX hasn't really abused that gag too much), but really, not too much has changed as a result of Twilight becoming a princess or an alicorn, and the little changes that have shown up have really been just pretty positive character progression and growth on her part.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Batbrony

[DryGuy84 (Inactive) 927]

Wow, really? Disliking something makes me closed-minded? I disagree with plenty of negative things people have said about the show, but I feel they have all due rights to think that way. And is it not okay to be childish? It's a child's show. I like the show when it's funny and silly about things.

 

If you want to be "mature" about my opinions, then instead of turning a discussion into a hostile confrontation, let me recommend something for you to say. "Well, I'm sad to hear your opinions of the show have dropped so much. I can't say I really agree with, or understand your reasoning for disliking recent episodes, especially because I've been enjoying it. Hope you either give it another shot sometime, or find another show you enjoy."

 

I wasn't trying to be hostile, but you're right I wrote it out that way. I am very sorry, let me rephrase.

 

I would recommend you consider giving the show another look, sure the season has had slip-ups, but I think you may gave jumped to a conclusion too early.

 

Again, I am very sorry I came across as hostile in that last post, it was rude and uncalled for. I hope that you can forgive me, but I completely understand if you can't. 

Edited March 21, 2014 by DryColt84

[Tigerpop198 696]

Both of these did not bother me that much, but if I had to pick one it would be the Alicorn, that is worse.

[UserNotFound 964]

Neither bother me I'm pro princess twilicorn

[Vixor 80]

 

Platinum is from before they discovered the Magic of Friendship. The whole of Twilight's and Cadance's "ascension" depends on this. ......... It was a different time in the pony Old Testament.   I'm guessing that they had a different system.

 

You right in one thing, though. We can't be absolutely sure that there are not alicorns who aren't princesses or princesses who aren't alicorns in the present. After all, Blueblood is a prince... I just think that MMC puts both Twilight and Cadance on a different level. Damn. This show is a mess in this subject. But because of that episode I don't feel too bad about assuming that alicorns and princesses are connected, until the show tells us otherwise.

 

I'd imagine that Blueblood and Shining likely aren't alicorns because they didn't earn their titles in the same way as Twilight and Cadance. Blueblood was likely born into his title, or something similar, and Shining just married into his, so you can't really compare them with the two ascended princesses. I don't know how the whole 'ascension' thing works though, and there's no way to know. I don't like discussing alicorns due to lack of canon information, and I have little interest in them in the first place, but I see no justification or logic behind the idea of princes not being able to ascend for whatever reason, so I find myself with a rather strong desire to argue against that particular theory. Meh.

 

What has my life come to? 

[Metemponychosis 1,262]

I'd imagine that Blueblood and Shining likely aren't alicorns because they didn't earn their titles in the same way as Twilight and Cadance. Blueblood was likely born into his title, or something similar, and Shining just married into his, so you can't really compare them with the two ascended princesses. I don't know how the whole 'ascension' thing works though, and there's no way to know. I don't like discussing alicorns due to lack of canon information, and I have little interest in them in the first place, but I see no justification or logic behind the idea of princes not being able to ascend for whatever reason, so I find myself with a rather strong desire to argue against that particular theory. Meh.

 

What has my life come to? 

Alright. Stopping now. At least we can agree about Blueblood and Shining Armor. And not seeing male alicorns. 

[Vixor 80]

Alright. Stopping now. At least we can agree about Blueblood and Shining Armor. And not seeing male alicorns. 

Stopping does indeed sound nice. Thanks for your time though!

Edited March 21, 2014 by Vixor