Is Friendship even real?

[Gone Airbourne 21,977]

Friendship is real but then again if you are lucky enough to be blessed with a few good friends. Then do the best you can to keep those friendships close to you. But then again you really have to watch out for yourself and know that there are going to be little to none out there. It hurts so badly to be treated wrongly by those who you thought were your friends from the get go. 

[DND 2,355]

Yes, human beings can be cruel, but sometimes to really read someone, you gotta go past that "don't judge the person until you've known 'em for a while" and stick to what they seem like to your limited time-span... that is, if you wish to be extra-safe.

 

The guys who treated you like less of a person was, at most, using you to make them feel more dominant in some way, shape or form, and It's what I call a past-acquaintance at best. True friends are not necessarily the scarily nice and clingy ones, but the ones who are truly putting themselves into trains of thought that deal with other things than ego-centrism.

 

I sorry you went through this, especially now and not in your primary school days. Your doubts are very much understandable with the more negative of lucks, but It's not true. You'll find somebody if you try~

Edited May 14, 2014 by IncognitoKiwoy

[Everleaf 541]

It IS real alright you just need to find it

[Tetrakemy 221]

Friendship is nothing more than the need for personal gain. If you do not gain anything from being friends, like money, food, entertainment or anything like that. A friendship cannot exist. 

 

Even if you are only friends because of mutual interest in something and you discover things about the world like new music,place and things you never heard of before. It is only because you are gaining something from it that the friendship exists. 

 

In short.

 

Friendship = personal gain. 

[Graveyard Duck 150]

I'd like to point out that Americans tend to use the word "friend" a lot less carefully than other people tend to. For Americans, anyone they've met more than twice and don't automatically hate could be called a "friend", but it doesn't mean anything. They'll say assuredly that they're your friend, and then not lift a finger to help you out for anything. I'm not saying Americans can't have true friendships, of course, but their usage of language can make things hard to understand sometimes. If you go to Europe, no one there will call you a friend (in their own language) unless they know you really do have each other's back.

[Blaze Bronson 343]

Friendship is without a doubt real.

 

But there is a difference between friends and best friends.

I have got a lot of friends. However they are only the ones I spend time together while in groups and for entertainment.

 

My best friends are a few. Those I will keep a connection to til the day I die. Even if they turn sour I will try to keep contact and be a part of their lives. Almost like family.

 

My best friends are people I just can't wait to spend time with. And I actually start to miss after being separated. HOWEVER, I do find faults in them which I hate. I have also tried telling them. But I have realized that the only reason I want to tell them, is for them to change. And that is not my job. I express my thoughts and feelings of what they do, but I don't bash them as I tended to do before.

 

What I'm saying is. Will you be better off without your friends? Or will you miss them? And are you just the receiving end of their jokes? Well that's just how they are, I have one best friend who loves to mock me for my stupidity, but I try to just laugh at it as well. Because I know I love being whith this friend, and I know he likes being with me. It's just who he is.

[joecal97 340]

Quite simply, they aren't true friends, so they don't count, and you should just act to them the same way they do to you, see how they like it!

You need to find some true friends, that'll prove to you that friendship is real

[SasQ 1,376]

@@TheMarkz0ne, yes, Friendship is real. I can say from my own experience. But it also isn't something given to you forever; you can lose a friend as quick as you gained one.

 

What you write sounds to me like that statement about cats:

"All the cats I've seen were black, so I claim that every cat is black".

This is a logical fallacy to think that way if you haven't seen all possible cats there are. There still can be some white cats you've simply missed out.

 

What's more, you may unconsciously limit yourself for noticing/attracting only black cats by what you do, what you say and how you live. Which seems to be the case:

 

Last month, a friend called me stupid. He didn't say it with his mouth. I actually made him say it, without him talking. I dropped him off at his home. I said "Am I an idiot?" He paused for 2 seconds, that alone is a yes.

No it isn't. It's just your conclusion, which can be wrong. Something you made up in your mind yourself, and I don't know why, but I see this is something you wanted to hear very much. (Note however: That's what I see; it didn't have to be the case.) You literally forced him yourself to admit it. His hesitation didn't have to be a confirmation, it also might be his way to not say it. Even if he thought what you say/think is stupid to him, his silence could be read that he still cares about you: if he didn't, he would simply tell it to you in your face.

 

But those are all pure speculations, same as your own. None of them should necessarily be true. The only way to know the true is a honest discussion with your friend (that is, making sure both of you are honest in this discussion, and not forcing honesty).

 

But before that, think about why would you want to hear from your friend that you're stupid.

 

He calls me an idiot in my own home.

But you've said that he never admitted it. So did he call you stupid, or you just concluded that ouf of thin air? What if your conclusion was wrong, and it is you ruining your own friendship?

 

I always bought these people food, drove them without asking for gas money. I always supported them when they needed a guide to talk to.

Now you sound materialistic. As if making these favors to them were something to be repaid by their friendship. Sorry, this doesn't work that way. Friendship cannot be bought, even by kindness or devotion. Friendship is something which comes from someone else's heart because he wants it.

 

Also it seems that your definition of friendship is "My friends are as generous/immaterialistic/whatever as I am". This excludes friends who could differ from you. Notice how much Discord differs from Mane Six, but they still could be friends. It was not easy, it has many glitches from the very beginning, he even betrayed them, but part of true Friendship is also forgiveness. This actually makes a strong difference, because when one gets forgiveness from you, and understands why, he can literally change his heart, even if he was mischievous before that.

 

But it was never good enough. They always complain about what I worked for. They think my parents pamper me with everything.

Well, I live in Poland, a place where literally EVERY-FUCKING-ONE complains about literally EVERYTHING. And somehow I can live with it, because I learned to tolerate it and to not pay much attention to the negative emotions, focusing only on what positive I can get from it for myself. Sometimes their critique is true, it's just the way they do it which is flawed. And here we get to this point:

 

I was actually hurt tonight. Because we were talking about life and human suffering. It was related to how people do not share information and want to benefit mankind. He called me an idiot for denying "science". I always tell him "Why do you just follow orders?" I am telling him to think for himself, instead of going on wikipedia and listening to some douche with a PHD and high tax bracket. I don't care for science because it's not exciting.. It's sterile and is not helping man. He called me an idiot over the chemical properties of baking soda. I told him baking soda can be chemically altered to have negative side effects. He just "Sodium-bicarbonate cannot be altered and you're  a dumb ass bla bla bla" Friends don't do this.

I don't know the details of this discussion, so I can only guess, and I hope my guesses are correct. But here's what I think of it:

 

You said that you "deny science". It happens that I am a scientists, and I love making science and figuring out how things work in our Universe. I want to know everything about it. But I also know that there are many people who call themselves "scientists", they have their PhDs, they are being paid for producing papers, but what most of them do is not always true science. There are lots of scientists just following the herd and conforming to the establishment, because their careers depend on it. They publish their works in a way that denies other people of accessing their publications (e.g behind the paywall, or with access control permitted only to scientific facilities), or they don't publish at all, hiding their knowledge for themselves or their employers.

 

Sure, it is bad, for all mankind, and it brings us nowhere. But I accept that, because I know It's not necessarily their fault to follow this way. They were programmed throughout their life by the educational system to believe certain things, and now they are unable to see different. They would deny whatever which doesn't agree with what they're taught of. Even if what they've been taught of is not true. They often cannot think differently, because then they would lose their hard-afforded reputation and career, and money which support their families etc. They made themselves into a prison which they cannot easily escape today.

 

But instead of blaming them, or trying to force them to see the truth, or influence them in any other way, which I learned doesn't work much, I learned to accept that and just be the change myself. If there's something in this world which you don't like, don't try to change it, because it won't work. You will encounter the more resistance and suffer, the more you will be trying to push. The only thing you can change is yourself, so be the change you would like to see in this world. Be the example for other people, and then they will start following you, when they'll see it is benefiting.

 

That's why I do science on my own, independently. No one pays me for that, but I do it because I love it. I'm not following the mainstream. I have my own mind, and I often question what's there on Wikipedia or in textbooks. I make my own experiments, which I prefer than just reading what someone else thinks how the Nature should work.

 

But denying science altogether just because most scientists are black cats is a huge injustice for scientists like me, who truly love what they do and pursue the truth. Sure, there are things in science which are blatantly wrong. There are errors on Wikipedia, too, and I know many of them myself, because Wikipedia is "democratic": it just reflects what most of people think about something, not what this something truly is. Knowledge is not democratic. One doesn't vote if 2+2=4.

 

As to the sodium bicarbonate: What if your friend is right? I, for one, don't know any way to "modify" sodium bicarbonate to be poisonous or something. It would require changing its molecular structure, which would made it something else than "sodium bicarbonate". But I'm open for your ideas. If you know how this could be done, I'm all ears. You're possibly not stupid, but you might be wrong. Making errors is human nature. Every one of us makes mistakes. Being stupid is not learning from these mistakes. But it's also not something "innate". Even if you are stupid, you can stop being stupid at any moment by starting to learn from your mistakes. For example here:

 

I don't care for science because it's not exciting.. It's sterile and is not helping man.

Oh, you couldn't be more wrong! That's just your experience with science as of today. But it's completely opposite to my experience! For me, true science is the most exciting thing on this world, and I cannot imagine how anything could be more exciting than solving the mysteries of the Universe and how does it work, or making experiments, or solving some math problems, or finding ways to simplify something. Seeing the power to predict future events basing on previous experience, and gaining power of mind over matter. Sure, there are tons of scientific books & papers which are boring as hell. But I don't consider them true science if they're not fun (because true science is fun). They're usually boring and confusing because their author was confused and has a boring life. But again, not all cats are black. So instead of just passively complaining about black cats, start actively looking for white cats. I recommend you to look into my profile and check out some of my threads about science. And my website. You might be surprised.

 

I am coming to these conclusions

1. It's my fault and all the people I messed up with, were all my errors

2. I have come across bad people and it's simply horrid luck

What if there's a third way?

See? You're limiting your choice for yourself again. And then you will be complaining that your choice is bad

 

I am leaning on option #1. Because all the people I dropped ties with, it seems I only had myself to blame. For my behavior, and the fact I'm a non conformist.

Being non conformist is not easy, but it is worth of it. And it's not your fault (as you put it). It's also not your fault that you have some problems with accepting/tolerating other people's views on some subjects, or making conclusions from their behavior which hold no water from the logical standpoint. But it is your mistake/error, and it's bad for ya. Fortunately, you can start learning from these mistakes, because that's what they are there for: they're feedback for us, a chance to learn something new.

 

Edit:

There are some people in this thread who claim that Friendship is real, and they do it from their own experience. So maybe it would be a good idea for you to talk with them and learn how do they found their white cats?

Edited May 14, 2014 by SasQ

[Fluttershyfan94 5,742]

Friendship is real, there are true friends and then there are false friends. The people you describe are not true friends, don't sound like friends at all.

 

I have had some experience with friends, I've had good friends and I've had bad friends. Sometimes they go from being good to bad. But I've learned with time that those are the people not worth being around. A real friend appreciates you for who you are, so you can establish a real friendship. You just haven't yet, but let me tell you. Having a good friend by your side is worth having to go through a few not so good friends.

[Milky Jade 138]

I was actually hurt tonight. Because we were talking about life and human suffering. It was related to how people do not share information and want to benefit mankind. He called me an idiot for denying "science". I always tell him " Why do you just follow orders?" I am telling him to think for himself, instead of going on wikipedia and listening to some douche with a PHD and high tax bracket. I don't care for science because it's not exciting.. It's sterile and is not helping man. He called me an idiot over the chemical properties of baking soda. I told him baking soda can be chemically altered to have negative side effects. He just "Sodium-bicarbonate cannot be altered and you're  a dumb ass bla bla bla" Friends don't do this.

 

I don't wanna play devil's advocate, but you realize that modern medicine and technology, architecture, I could go down the line, are all products of science and/or the scientific method?

 

If you do, good

If you don't, ask your friend that one question again, but this time keep my post in mind..

 

EDIT: Well, I was going to bring my 2 dimes in text form, but is there really to say?

 

If friendship doesn't exist because your alleged friends are caustic douchebags, then yes, a friendship between you doesn't exist. Friendship is not about sacrificing yourself for the other one.

 

Love and friendship are based on the same principles. What many people call "mutual interest", I like to call "having the same values", which is key to any relationship, whether of two friends or two lovers.

Washing each other's hands in turns but actually have no interest whatsoever in the other person is not a friendship. It's a trade. It's businessmen coming to an agreement.

 

And a not so uncommon thing for businessmen to occur is one getting screwed over by the other. Deplorable? Reprehensible? Maybe. But don't for one second think that you've been in a genuine friendship. You couldn't say something more regrettable about yourself, after all.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Milky Jade

[Galen 1,354]

 

 

Last month, a friend called me stupid. He didn't say it with his mouth. I actually made him say it, without him talking. I dropped him off at his home. I said "Am I an idiot?" He paused for 2 seconds, that alone is a yes. He would have instantly said no, he would never have had to take a moment to think if he actually cared and knew about me.

 

He calls me an idiot in my own home. I always bought these people food, drove them without asking for gas money. I always supported them when they needed a guide to talk to. But it was never good enough. They always complain about what I worked for. They think my parents pamper me with everything.

 

So you just up and randomly ask him if you're an idiot after dropping him off. If I had to guess, his hesitation wasn't due to him not knowing if he should be "honest" and tell you that you are as much as it has to do with his confusion about why you suddenly asked something like that out of the blue.

 

People make fun of you when hanging out? Maybe they do it because you take it too seriously. Is it something that they always do between each other? If that's the case then you shouldn't take it seriously as they're just joking between each other. if not, then yeah, I would say that your current group of friends isn't for you. However, they're not the only people you can ever have as friends. There's bound to be other people who you can make friends with and that you can mingle with more easily.

I'd like to point out that Americans tend to use the word "friend" a lot less carefully than other people tend to. For Americans, anyone they've met more than twice and don't automatically hate could be called a "friend", but it doesn't mean anything. They'll say assuredly that they're your friend, and then not lift a finger to help you out for anything. I'm not saying Americans can't have true friendships, of course, but their usage of language can make things hard to understand sometimes. If you go to Europe, no one there will call you a friend (in their own language) unless they know you really do have each other's back.

 

Except the UK. Brits are a bit closer to Americans. At least from my experience.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

@@SasQ

 

Thanks for the long reply. I don't have much time to give too much detail. I appreciate that you accept mind over matter. It has been proven true time and time again in a lab, yet mainstream science denies ESP and the paranormal. I feel like people are just so used to living in this artificial world that boils down to college, a career and kids...the death is the whole point.

 

I only care about things that interest me(as does everyone else) I was never really into science when I was in school, I had Bs in the class but it was so boring. The teachers just never showed any enthusiasm or heart with their major. I got into science as soon as I left high school and went online and found all these experiments which destroyed the credibility of that school textbook.

 

This old friend I had would say my "computer nonsense" is pointless to him, which is all fine and cool. But he implied computer science isn't that useful. He's learning chemistry and he got so angry over what I said about baking soda being tampered with, just like all of our other foods. He said "sodium bicarbonate can't be altered" I'm not in a lab, but I know these people who work for Monsanto, know the tricks of the trade.

 

I might consider going back to biology(Not Macro, for obvious reasons: I don't accept Darwinism). My issue is finding something I can enjoy in life to help other people. It's less about the money, and actually doing things for society that are beneficial. I got this book from Rupert Sheldrake and it's called 'Science Set Free' he presents amazing points in his TED conference Which was banned by the way on why materialism-reductionism cannot be questioned, and how it has turned people into objects and play things for scientist.

 

Just like how these psych medications are detrimental to the health of people. Big Pharma makes trillions and the customers they have not only need to pay them for the meds, they need to be medicare/medicaid slaves to the government, because these meds drastically make their behaviors unpredictable and often will cause organ damage on prolonged usage. I was on meds for 6 months and was lucky enough to not develop a dependency on them. But I felt awful and not even self-aware at points while on those meds back in 2012.

 

Science is finally accepting holistic healing and natural methods of healing people. Those mainstream scientist call it nonsense, but it actually works for people and you never see it promoted on the news. I am looking up Bio-photon Therapy. It's something I hear is a method of healing for autistic people with a great success rate.

 

 

EDIT:

 

For my old friend though. I am not intending to be materialistic. I just give things and I don't want anything back. I just know that they're not being friendly about it. I am the one who always has to make phone calls and ask if they want to do something, never the other way around. If they were really my friends, they would want to hang with me. I don't take the "i'm busy excuse" anymore. Because knowing them, they get their homework done quick, some are unemployed and play video games.

Edited May 14, 2014 by TheMarkz0ne

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

 

 

I don't care for science because it's not exciting.. It's sterile and is not helping man.

...

You know, if that's what you habitually talk about then I see why the would they would be led to believe that you aren't so bright. If you are willing to debate this with me then I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is. But not in this thread of course. I'll be waiting on you to make a debate thread about that very claim you posted right there.

 

See, as someone who questions the status quo myself, it's one thing to point the finger towards it and recite history with Galileo and Copernicus but something else entirely to substantiate your base claims with evidence because that's what's going to matter in an honest debate.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

...

You know, if that's what you habitually talk about then I see why the would they would be led to believe that you aren't so bright. If you are willing to debate this with me then I'm ready to put my money where my mouth is. But not in this thread of course. I'll be waiting on you to make a debate thread about that very claim you posted right there.

 

See, as someone who questions the status quo myself, it's one thing to point the finger towards it and recite history with Galileo and Copernicus but something else entirely to substantiate your base claims with evidence because that's what's going to matter in an honest debate.

I don't debate with him. I do my research from scientist that oppose the mainline view. What's so wrong about questioning science? Especially when the world is such a train wreck the way it is. Scientist are supposed to advance mankind. If anything I can tell we're being limited.

 

Also you do realize Kepler's astronomy was based on observation right? Science is something people put on a black board mostly. I'm only talking about the theoretical people that will attack others constantly.

Edited May 14, 2014 by TheMarkz0ne

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

I don't debate with him. I do my research from scientist that oppose the mainline view. What's so wrong about questioning science? Especially when the world is such a train wreck the way it is. Scientist are supposed to advance mankind. If anything I can tell we're being limited.

I meant debate with me.

Nothing wrong with questioning it but you better be ready to be questioned yourself.

[TheMarkz0ne 962]

I meant debate with me.

Nothing wrong with questioning it but you better be ready to be questioned yourself.

I'm going to abstain because right now I have other things to worry about. Also I'm not really a popular person on this forum. I cite my sources and am learning like everyone else. I pretty much come to the whole point of not trusting my politicians that used to work for us. The government abuses scientist and uses them like toilet paper. Scientist use our tax money and we have no idea what they're doing with all this free money they get. If real scientist had integrity they would be coming out and telling us why things are, the way they are.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

I'm going to abstain because right now I have other things to worry about. Also I'm not really a popular person on this forum. I cite my sources and am learning like everyone else. I pretty much come to the whole point of not trusting my politicians that used to work for us. The government abuses scientist and uses them like toilet paper. Scientist use our tax money and we have no idea what they're doing with all this free money they get. If real scientist had integrity they would be coming out and telling us why things are, the way they are.

Well, since you asked, here's one climate scientist who got marginalized for being a scientist and not coming to conclusions people want to hear.

 

Be warned, it is ultra-depressing.

 

[Graveyard Duck 150]

Except the UK. Brits are a bit closer to Americans. At least from my experience.

 

Eh, Brits are in a weird category all their own in a lot of ways. I speak from experiences in France and Italy.

[Coffee 4,323]

Well yes it is, even though to find true friendship is difficult, to discover it is amazing 

[HeavenSunset 1,867]

Yes, friendship is real. No other answer

[SasQ 1,376]

On 5/10/2014 at 5:58 AM, TheMarkz0ne said:

It's my fault and all the people I messed up with, were all my errors

I have come across bad people and it's simply horrid luck

I am leaning on option #1. Because all the people I dropped ties with, it seems I only had myself to blame. For my behavior, and the fact I'm a non conformist.

It might have been your mistake to hang out with crappy people, but it's not your fault. Don't blame yourself for being a good person and holding up to your values. If anyone is to blame, it's them.

In Poland we use to say: "Prawdziwych przyjaciół poznaje się w biedzie", which means something in the lines of "You can tell who's your true friend only when you're in a mishap." People call other people "friends" way too easily, and then they're surprised when those "friends" double cross them. But if you're in a bad situation, a true friend will be with you to help you out instead of leaving you alone or poking fun of you. That's the real test that allows you to tell who's your real friend and who was only faking friendship to extort some benefits from you with emotional bargaining.

It's not always easy to tell who's your true friend, because most of the time we're not in trouble. Moreover, we like to have friends, and we are afraid of the idea that people may turn their backs on us and leave us. So we have a tendency to deceive ourselves that other people are our friends even if they're not, ignoring all those little signals and downplaying them, until they cumulate enough. I'm pretty sure that's what happened to you as well, because I know that story all well, from my own experience as well.

There's also that problem that people often fake sympathy when they have some interest in it. As long as you're doing what they want you to do (e.g. helping them with their homework, buying them dinner etc.), they complement you and praise you to make you feel important to them. But as soon as you try to do something that they're not happy with, all their fake sympathy pops out, and they'll even try guilt-tripping you for being "harsh" for them, or being an "egotist" or something. In general, they will start projecting their own flaws on you, so it's a good moment to become aware of those flaws they have, since they make them obvious by projecting them on you. Real friends never do that – they accept your difference and your flaws.

It might sound scary to think that most of the people you're friend with might not really be your true friends. But trust me, it's better to realize that as soon as possible and treat them accordingly (that is, as just acquaintances, not friends), even if it is at the cost of being alone for a while. Because to be fair, you're never really alone. There will always be people who will support you, even if you're not aware of that, or if you haven't met them yet. Just stick to your values and hold up to them, and people with similar values will appear in your life sooner or later.

True friends exist. But they are rare. And that's what makes friendship so precious.

Edit: Hah, I just realized that I'm replying to a very old thread ;D  Moreover, I already replied it before (my reply was on page 2).  But I'll leave my second reply because it kinda complements what I said previously and adds some more to it, from a bit different perspective.

Edited July 9, 2020 by SasQ

[Stardust 641]

I think its is imaginary I mean twilight said it was magic right so I think it is something that floats in the air. Lool well jokin but..

There is a sort bond people have yeah. Tho u dunno if it will last forever. 

The bond isn't a real like actual object tho just sort of an acknowledgement ha u developed somethin together, experienced something and shared something more than simply and acquaintance and view it positively. 

[KatonRyu 1,033]

It is, yes. But just because it's real doesn't mean it's forever. People change, circumstances change. What was once a balanced friendship can become toxic. Just be glad with the good times you have with your friends, I guess.

[Ixrec 86]

One of the reasons MLP:FiM is so good is that it backs up its idealistic message about friendship and harmony with lots of examples of why true friendship is a lot more difficult or complicated than just hanging out together. It requires both friends to put real work into maintaining the friendship, and (short of sun goddess or magic gemstone intervention) there's just no way to know if someone else is willing to do that until push comes to shove.

In particular, there are multiple episodes where one of our heroes realizes they have to cut ties with a toxic friend after they've proven themselves unwilling to be a good friend. Gilda, Lightning Dust, Suri Polomare, and Svengallop (for Rara) all come to mind, and two of those friendships (Gilda+RD and Svengallop+Rara) went back years before their respective episodes began.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Ixrec

[Splashee 28,563]

The friendzone is real, that's were you will find me!