Magic Man

I dunno, I mean Discord is arguably the biggest potential evil compared to Changelings. I think it is very much possible there are many good changelings.

So Discord has now been reformed (well, he's on the right track as he's realized he's been a douche), which is good, but where does that now leave the rest of the Equestria's enemies, including their foreign enemies. You know who I'm talking about! I mean, the way I see it, sorry, but if Celestia is willing to give Discord a second chance, then that doesn't make her willing to repair relations with Changelings beyond the realm of the impossible. What I would like to see is both sides coming together to try and rebuild relations, this idea being based on an early episode of Young Justice, where like the North and South Korea based countries in Equestria, the Changeling Kingdom and Equestria's leaders gather at a peace summit to try and work out a way to improve relations, with who else being the arbitrator (in Young Justice, Lex Luthor) than good ol' Discord. The episode can then be made serious due to the subject matter, with Discord providing much needed comic relief. Even if not this exact episode, surely most of you see a Changeling redemption, or rather a Equestrian-Changeling relations episode possible in the future.

LOL! No, I don't imagine that would go down to well. Shining Armor: (after a very offensive Queen Chrysalis impersonation) "I'M TRYING TO CHEER HER UP, YA STUPID BUG!" Edit made 18/01/2013: Helloooooooo? Anyyyyyone there? That's weird, I would have thought more people would have been more interested in this topic.

If you've all seen Meghan McCarthy's tweet, 'Games Ponies Play' is based on an Fawlty Tower's episode, namely the Hotel Inspector episode because well, c'mon, the episode is gonna be about an inspector for the upcoming games. However, this does not necessarily mean they're borrowing it just from that episode, the episode could draw from other episodes of the classic series. My preferred would be the German one. This is mainly if the games are international, meaning competitors from other countries come to participate, including by bureaucratic rules as stated by the inspector, the Changeling Kingdom. Can anyone else say, "Don't mention the Invasion!"? Changeling Guest: Will you stop talking about the invasion? Shining Armor: Me? You started it! Changeling Guest: We did not start it! Shining Armor: Yes, you did! You attacked Canterlot! What about you? What elements of the show besides the obvious could be present in 'Games Ponies Play'. I mean, okay, it may be unlikely they'll borrow a lot from the show, but a shout out and a reference would not be out of the question.

Let's try and keep this about Celestia's rationale for releasing Discord and not about that talked to death Alicorn topic. That has plenty of topics on this forum in which that is still being discussed.

In the upcoming 'keep calm and flutter on', as we all know, it is Princess Celestia who comes up with and instigates the plan to release and reform Discord, and with all the discussion about the episode, one issue that needs to have its own forum topic is Celestia's rationale for releasing Discord in the first place. Basically, what's up, Princess? I have this theory to submit, after reading it on Equestria Daily; perhaps the reasoning for Celestia wanting to reform Discord is not out of personal conviction, but for similar reasons as to why Gandalf took part in the journey in The Hobbit. Celestia (Gandalf) wants to take this extremely powerful being, Discord (Smaug) out of the equation because whilst right now it is peace time, if a future enemy were to appear, they could not re-awake Discord and use him as an ally against Equestria. Sure, it may not be for that EXACT reason word for one, but it could be in a very similar vein. If explained and executed well enough, this could work in the episode. Or maybe I'm wrong, maybe it could be personal conviction for all I know. What do you think?

Hey, it's me, Wormtail96, now known as Magic MAAAAAAAN!!! I have this theory to submit; perhaps the reasoning for Celestia wanting to reform Discord is not out of personal convinction, but for similar reasons as to why Gandalf took part in the journey in The Hobbit. Celestia (Gandalf) wants to take this extremely powerful being, Discord (Smaug) out of the equation because whilst right now it is peace time, if a future enemy were to appear, they could not reawake Discord and use him as an ally against Equestria.

One thing I'm actually concerned about in the upcoming episode is the way the Mane Six, minus Fluttershy will be handled? Obviously, they're not gonna be too keen on Discord coming back, let alone being charged with reforming him, but as the main aim of the episode is to do just that and thus the audience is going to be on Discord's side, I am then concerned as to how the ponies will be portrayed as a result. Basically, what I fear happening is what you see in other shows, where the episode is so blatantly one-sided against those in opposition, here the other Mane Six. The episode could very easily end up demonizing them/making them out to look like jerks because of their opposition to the idea of reforming him, especially without reference to the wider context. It would seem the moral is going to be about second chances and that even the worst of people can change and that others should be open to it and at least willing to give that chance. But the problem is that with the Mane Six and Discord, it is no way near as black-and-white as that because of how much Discord has hurt them all personally. The message could end up basically saying; 'The rest of the Mane Six were wrong because they were not willing to immediately, right away totally forgive and reform Discord, who only tried to take over the world, mentally tortured them and nearly obliterated their friendship! SHAME-ON-THEM!' And for me, that would be extremely unfair. This isn't some ex-con or petty crook, this is DISCORD! Hell, even Chrysalis I think would get a better deal from the mane six if this was her episode instead. All I want is for the Mane Six's feelings and perspectives to be taken into account or at least acknowledged in this, instead of simply saying "no, they were wrong. Bad ponies, bad!" I mean, imagine the mental torture and scarring they went through at the hands of this wicked spirit and how they went through to turn him back to stone. Now, Celestia is basically going all, "No, buck that", and not only freeing the spirit, but having them be the ones to reform him. ... That is like getting kicked in the groin with a steel boot and having McDonald's coffee thrown in your face at the same time. Of course they're gonna be peeved!

Well, then the writers are damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either they fail to fulfill fans' expectations and receive disappoint that overshadows the rest of the episode, or they manage to fulfill those expectations, only to be accused of pandering.

I believe that in the upcoming episode, that in trying to convince the others, Fluttershy makes a comparison of Discord to Luna, saying how they all forgave her after her misdeeds with Twilight taking the lead, but not Discord. This would be a very good comparison, as well as a quick analysis on Discord's character. When she does, the others, namely Twilight, strenuously point out that there is a BIG difference between Luna and Discord, namely: Luna was CORRUPTED into Nightmare Moon by her jealousy, whilst Discord is a sadistic sociopath who does what he does for the sole purpose of being a douche. They didn't exactly hate Luna, they were mostly just scared and intimidated by her booming voice and imposing demeanor, not helped by Nighmare Moon's legacy. Discord they utterly despise, for good reason. Luna didn't mentally fuck them up and nearly obliterate their friendship like Discord did. Luna was remorseful of her actions, and wanted and actively made an effort to change, whilst it is very likely Discord does none of the three (It would not seem right if he does. Fluttershy will probably have to make all the effort for him).

One of things I like about MLP:FiM is how it's willing to go into maturer (better word here than 'dark') subjects and themes than the last couple of generations. HOWEVER, I like it also, possibly more, for the fact that whilst it can be 'darker and edgier' at times, it sticks to its bright, positive roots, which I think a lot of shows don't have nowadays. If you want a dark, brooding show, go watch Batman: TAS, or for a dark comedic show, Adventure Time and Regular Show, but MLP is something most different.

Well, I'm not 100% up on the workings of a hive-mind, but I do believe that is very strong evidence. Surely, they would have been able to tell if they were one of theirs or not.

After seeing the preview of the second comic, I have to say, I like how they've done Chrysalis' awesome diggs. I much prefer the East European gothic castle than to the baseless fanon hive or hive-mind. Okay, if you know me, you know I've gone on about this a thousand times, but check the title, because this is what this topic is going to be about that very subject. So as states, yes, I hate the hive and hive-mind idea that many have come up for the Changeling species. Why? I mean, after all, the Changelings are insectoid and so a hive-home and hive-mind does make sense, right? Well, yes and no. True, the Changelings are at least part insect and the whole Bee People, Hive-Mind concept has its place in popular culture, but not all insects have a hive mind or system and the Changelings are also at least part equine; the ratio just isn't definite. The truth is, the hive-mind/sytem for the Changelings has no concrete canon evidence to really back it up, so it's a tad confusing why so many people in the fandom think of it as fanon, or canon, or whatever (I'm not all that great with those terms). However, whilst there is little evidence for it, there is also evidence against it and reason why it shouldn't be so for the sake of the Changelings themselves and the plotlines. Okay, so what's my personal gripe about the theory? Mine is mostly because of how much them having a hive-mind/system limits what you can do with the Changelings in terms of writing and story. A hive-mind or them all being her children (which comes with the hive-system) takes away the ability to show Changelings as individuals and in their own groups of friends and family. If it were a hive system and hive-mind, the only way to show one as an individual is to have him break out of it (don't think that's possible), but even then, that isolates him from his own kind and we don't get to see how they interact with each other. There's also the fact that neither in the show or comics does Chrysalis ever once refer to any of the Changelings as her children, just her minions, meaning they are servants under her rule and nothing else. If they really were her children, why not address or refer to them as such? I just think we can do so much more with the changelings than just saying "they all live in a hive, have no individual thought or character except for Chrysalis, and are all her offspring. Done." To be honest, it seems kind of simple and lazy instead of actually putting thought into a whole society for them. There are other points made by fellow fans I've talked to about this issue. http://intensedebate.com/people/Alondro "Not to mention, it makes it far too easy to defeat the changeling race. Kill queen = game over. And to offset that, there has to be all sorts of rigmarole written in to prevent that from happening too quickly. You can't have direct confrontations with the Queen, because any pony with any sense of strategy will do everything possible to kill her the instant she's in view. And the Queen, if she has any brains, will never let herself come into view of any pony for that very same reason. Even seemingly secured, one can't be sure that the pony prisoners don't have a secret, undetectable assassination weapon or spell. Now, that could be offset by having other changelings assume the form of Chrysalis to draw out the assassins and reveal their secrets... but at that point everything gets really complicated and you have to wonder, "Why am I writing this story with colorful ponies again?" Because honestly, that type of story doesn't work at all with the setting. It's like crossing Care Bears with James Bond." That, and Chrysalis would then be living in a constant state of panic and fear of death, knowing that hundreds, if not thousands of ponies are actively plotting to kill her and that if she does die, then her entire species goes out with her. She'd be a jibbering wreck. -- http://www.fimfiction.net/user/Twilight+is+Magic "It makes perfect sense for changelings to be independent individuals. After all, in order to simply feed, they have to infiltrate a society of sentient beings, and each case of that infiltration is necessarily unique. A single hive mind simply wouldn't be able to handle so many simultaneous, highly complicated individual cases. Their very being necessitates being capalbe of independent judgement and action, and also quite a bit of 'people (pony?) skills'. While changelings may very well have some sort of way of contacting each other and/or the Queen, it would only make them a species of individuals with some telepathic abilities. It'd also make for a greater coordination. In A Canterlot Wedding, they didn't display much of that coordination, which is evidence against both the hive mind theory and this telepathy. The changelings in my so far only story sort of straddle the line. The rank and file changelings are isolated individuals, but Chrysalis can contact the Changeling Commander and thus give orders to her army while not being physically present. Based on their actions in A Canterlot Wedding, when the changeling army attacked at just the right time without any real way of seeing why the time was right, their actions could possibly be explained by this sort of 'uplink'." -- Wow, this is getting lengthy, best wrap it up. So this is my and a few other fans reasons for not believing in the hive-mind theory for changelings, and by the looks of the comic, it may not either. What I ask you reading this is what you think of the theory? Do you have other arguments against it or alternatively for it?

I'm afraid that what we all have to accept when it comes to a changeling plotline, a certain amount of obliviousness or downright idiocy is required for the sake of keeping the plot going. Them getting into an argument is mainly just a plot device. With the Changelings, whose whole schtick is deception with the use of their shapeshifting abilities, it's pretty hard to utilize that if the characters become too savvy. I mean, take the wedding episodes, for example. If the writers had Celestia as smart as she usually is, then it is most likely the episode would have ended it before it could even begin, so for the sake of the plot, I think they HAD to reduce her IQ points a bit. It's not even really the writers' fault, to be honest. Overall, the problem lays with using these types of villains and how hard it is not to fall into the cycle. In this sense, it's far more sensible to have Discord reform than him just continuing the cycle of Released>>Take over the world>>Stoned>>Repeat.

I like how they've done Chrysalis' awesome diggs. I much prefer the Eastern European gothic castle than to the baseless fanon hive or hive-mind. Yeah, I've gone on about that plenty of times, but I hate the hive-mind idea. Why? Mostly because of how much it limits what you can do with the changelings in terms of writing and story. A hive-mind or them all being her children takes away the ability to show Changelings as individuals and their own groups of friends and family. So I will say I am glad they are not going in that direction.

I personally see 'shipping' as a tainted word now. I never said pair them and may they live happily ever after, but perhaps create a tension that there was or may have been something between them.

I am one of those who believes there may well have been 'something' between Celestia and Discord in the past. It just seems to work so well in my head, as well as others'. What with Discord being freed, and hopefully staying freed, do you think the writers may drop some call backs to a time when they have had a relationship, or now even drop hints that they may still have at least a begrudging admiration for one another. I mean done well and most gingerly, it could, if just for comedic effect. Extra points if the supposedly upcoming history episode has a scene referencing this comedic classic regarding the two: I dunno, maybe I'm just talking complete rubbish like 99% of the rest of the time, but if the writers did it right, a past flame between them is entirely feasible. And I'm not exactly rooting for them to get back together, just that it could an extra layer both to their past and current situations.

Well, hold on, I don't fault her for turning him to stone, she did it because of the fact he was terrorizing the ponies and making their lives miserable. He may be chaos, but he himself is sadistic. It may not have been the ideal decision on Celestia's part, but I believe it was justified.

But Discord is a very comedic character. A villainous one, sure, but still chiefly comedic, so that could easily be in Polsky's favour. True, it is a world-building episode, but that doesn't mean it has to be dead serious, especially it's Discord. I won't lie, I too am a tad unsure of how this is going to work out, but we need to have more faith in the writer. I mean, look at Merriwether Williams. Most ragged on her until she hit the ball out of the park with Wonderbolt Academy. This cold be Polsky's turn to win back the audience.

Just like how you cannot have harmony without chaos. Both go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other and I think Celestia was wrong in that she seemed to try and forcibly remove one.

I won't deny, I do have a preference for Discord, namely in terms of personality and powers. He's just far more interesting than Celestia. Although to be fair, I would definitely rather be ruled over by Celestia.

I'm not a person who cries a lot, it's just me, and with My Little Pony, no, I would not say it's an exception. However, believe it or not, I'm still capable of emotion, and yes, whilst there were not episodes or moments that caused me to break down crying, there were still moments in the show that 'got' to me. This is because of just how much I've grown to care about these characters and what happens to them.

Mate, that top part really comes across as more fandom speculated to make the Changeling's more sympathetic. There is no evidence that they've had to hide in Equestria, and it's canon that they have their own kingdom in the comics. And there is no evidence at all it's a revenge issue.

I doubt I'm the only one here who's envisioned a character giving a "What the Hell, Hero?" calling out to another for a number of reasons, be it the events of an episode or collective episodes that left a bad taste in our mouths, or even simply the clash of personalities. Of course, it's not JUST "What the Hell, Hero?", but could easily be a "Rage Against the Mentor" or "Calling the Old Man Out", all depending on the circumstances and relationships between the characters involved. Now, normally, this sort of thing is what we have fanfiction for, but what if you had the power to have a scene like this occur in a canon episode? Which characters would be involved? Who'd be given it out and who'd be on the receiving end? What would the situation be? When would it take place? How severe would you have it? (Like a MAJOR chewing out or a scolding, etc). Why do you personally want it to happen? Here's mine, for an example: I personally want Twilight to call Princess Celestia out some time in the foreseeable future, preferably in the Season 3 ender (which, by the looks of it, could spill into the Season 4 beginning). I have three reasons for this: It's a bit petty, but one is that Twilight has been on the receiving end of a calling out twice now, even though both were justified in their own right (but if you want to hear my take on that, here: http://mlpforums.com/topic/26491-the-ending-of-canterlot-wedding-part-one/). I suppose, for me, it would be a tad refreshing to see Twilight lashing out at somepony else for a change, which would show how much she's grown in confidence and the ability to stand up for herself. Celestia is not entirely squeaky clean. She's made some ethical decisions in the past that have left a lot of fans divided on her (though granted, the majority agree that she was justified in those decisions, and some fans just enjoy giving villains the leather pants treatment), and it would serve well to show she's not as perfect and infallible as the other characters, the show and even herself likes to think of her. Their relationship in general does warrant it at some point. Twilight hero worships Celestia, loving her as a mother; would do anything she can to please her as her prize pupil; has been hinted to actually kind of FEAR her and whenever Celestia has shown even a glimmer of disappointment in her, it's pretty much being stabbed in the heart with a dagger for Twilight. At some point, Twilight's gonna snap and just be, "you know what? Screw you!" And I can see it happening in relation with her 'destiny' that Season 3 is leading up to. This leads on to the situation aspect. Again, I want it to be on the 'destiny' episode(s) at the end of Season 3/beginning of Season 4, but as for what happens, the way I see it, Celestia has most likely not been telling Twilight the full truth of things. It could be revealed she's been holding some major secrets from her relating to her destiny or made other, even more ethically questionable in the past, some that arguably cross the line. In Twilight's eye at least, it can all make Celestia look selfish and manipulative, even though the other characters and the viewers can reason and understand why she did it. But for Twilight, it's just too much and her pedestal of Celestia is shattered. Now for the calling out itself, I feel a little guilty in that yes, I would like to see Twilight REALLY cutting into her mentor, possibly going into stuff that isn't relevant to the situation at hand, but it's also stuff that she'd normally have held back. But if time is an issue and the writers want to make it organic as possible, it could easily all be summed up in three words. Three magical words: I. Hate. You. Well, anyway, that's my scenario, what's yours?

Well, by Latin I was TRYING to mean Latin/South America. Yeah, it could mean Rome too, I suppose. I was mainly talking about the the arches ont he first panel witht he clearly Changeling heads on top.