Magic Man

I don't agree with the whole HIVE thing, there's nothing to give it canon backing. To me that takes away the ability to show them as individuals, which they clearly are. But hey, we're all entitled to our opinions... until canon comes along and dashes us.

I'm sure many of you are familiar with the "Always Chaotic Evil" trope and how it is often applied to the Changelings in the show. It is basically how every member of an enemy race is pure evil. There is not a single good member of the race, every single of them is bad to the bone and needs to be destroyed. I don't like this trope. I didn't like it in the past and I don't like it now. Why? Well, that's what I'm about to get into and why there needs to be another Changeling episode to defy it. So where did we see the "always chaotic evil" trope? Well, we've seen it in Star Wars, Clone Wars, Dungeons and Dragons, Lord of the Rings, most of the famous films, literature and games have entire species who are irredemably evil. But does that have a place with MLP, with the Changelings especially? Are they a world that like Star Wars, Clone Wars especially, where there is a good species and bad species who must be defeated? In my opinion? No. You see, this is what so many Bronies forget: My Little Pony is not like Star Wars, or Dungeons and Dragons or Lord of the Rings, or whatever. We try to Tolkienize it and the like, trying to build up the world, with "good nations" and "bad nations" and sometimes create a major theme of good against evil, often with the ponies and Changelings, which is what we have fanfictions for. But if we are talking Canon, proper Canon, the show is a slice-of-life one at the core, giving these ponies human-like personalities and see how they develop and grow, and not to forget, the whole schtick on FRIENDSHIP. It isn't a show that puts focuses on the conflict of good and evil, hey if you want that, watch Clone Wars. With My little pony, they have pretty much shown that good and bad is possible in anyone, transcending species or someone's past. Keep and Flutter On solidified this, because it showed that Discord, no matter what he has done, has good in him. I mean, before that episode, you and I would have been thinking he could NEVER be redeemed, but now that's what we still have AU fanfictions for. So if he can be good, why can't an entire species like the Changelings? And let's not forget Sombra, an evil member of the supposed cute, cuddly, innocent species of the ponies. So therefore, good is not something inherent in pony kind. Having there be "always chaotic evil" species just doesn't fit with the world and values of the MLP universe, and if the writers did go down that route, I would see it as a betrayal of its values and teachings. In fact, this is exactly why Dragon Quest was such a bad episode. Yes, you can make the argument that these dragons were teenage jerks and we didn't get to see any adults, but the implication is that, "Don't worry Spike, forget about your evil race, as long as you are being raised by the good, can-do-no-wrong race, you'll be just fine". Of course, that is not the intended message, but that is how it can easily come across as. And to go back to Star Wars and D&D, in those worlds, yes, there are evil species, but two things: 1) that's part of the established rules of those universes, where good vs evil is a major theme, which MLP as I've gone into above isn't. 2) They are aimed at an older audience, who by then have been taught that there is good and bad in all types of people in real life, regardless of race. MLP is a show, no matter how much an adult fanbase it has, it still aimed at young children, who are still being taught their values. If we have an "always chaotic evil" species in a show like MLP, then it can have serious Unfortunate Implications for that young audience watching it and would in the long run be more damaging than helpful; that in the real world, certain nationalities an ethnic groups are all bad and are all out to get you and your loved ones. Sound familiar? We are living in a world that is increasingly intolerant and unaccepting of those who are different. We need MORE shows like MLP:FiM to teach compassion, tolerance and acceptance of those that are different and that because certain members of a group of people do bad things, that doesn't mean all of them are bad. Because for the upteenth, this show isn't SW, or Harry Potter, something that a lot of Bronies are forgetting. They see the show sometimes for what they make instead of what it really is. In fact, MLP has dealt with this before in the early generations. In the arc with Grogar, with his servant species, the Troggals, many were shown to hate serving him and helped the ponies defeat Grogar. In the end, they came to live in Ponyland (Equestria). That is something I would be more than happy to see happen in MLP:FiM with the Changelings. Also, just on a sidenote, I was actually surprised by the move made around this by the new Thundercats show. It didn't just show Cats=good and lizard=bad, it showed in the first episodes almost as the cats being the REAL ones in the wrong because of their greed and belief in their own superiority, whilst the lizards are given a much more sympathetic look and shown as individuals, with one of them helping Lion-O and his brother escape. So props to the new Thundercats for that. Look, I personally don't know how real evil as a force is, that's depends on you and your spiritual and religious view. But even if it does exist in these fictional worlds, it all really depends on the kind of world, its rules and values and its intended audience whether there is an evil race. For me, I can't stand the trope, because of how much I believe in individualism and how we choose our own destinies and the kind of implications the trope gives, however unintentional. And in a show like MLP, I don't think it has a place. I just think it's a trope that should eventually fade away, especially in this modern world. Bottom line, this is all my opinion, and probably nothing more: does evil exist? Maybe, probably. But for me, it transcends your species and that it can exist in any kind of creature, just as much as good. This is why we need a Changeling episode regarding all this, if not just to reconfirm the messages of Keep Calm and Flutter On.

Okay, let's get this straight, at what point did Shining Armor declare Twilight was no longer his sister? Everyone keeps saying he disowned her, as did her friends. NONE OF THEM DID. Shining Armor just told her not to come to wedding, and that itself he is well within his rights to do. Why should he invite her to his wedding when she has just viciously insulted his bride and made herself clearly opposed to wedding even happening let alone make her his best mare? That last point is rather valid, but that's due to the writing of the episode and the pacing, hence why a few minutes should have been added for something like that, if not just showing them concerned?

No, he's not a Marty Stu. He's in no way perfect and does not pretend or made out to be by the show. But as for the thing about trusting Twilight, sigh, I suppose for the millionth time I'm gonna have to say this; Shining Armor had every right not to believe Twilight, especially when she came bursting in screaming "Evil Evil Evil" hysterically and non-stop with absolutely zero evidence against who he BELIEVED to be the mare he loved and wanted to dedicate his life to.

Well, gee, let's see, providing you mean I have to have half a brain at the time, I'm gonna have to say NO. I know a lot of you are going to hate me for this, but sorry, Shining Armor and the others had every right to be mad at Twilight in that episode.. And before I’m accused of anything, let me make it clear that I adore Twilight. She is quite possibly my fav. Pony character and when she started to break down, I doubt blame anyone for just wanting to reach into the screen and give her a big hug. However, I am still willing to admit how she acted in that scene was out of line. Let’s review: Twilight burst into the rehearsal and immediately made extremely serious accusations against a member of the ROYAL FAMILY with ZERO solid evidence to back any of it up, whilst acting as hysterical as possible and said accusations consisting pretty much of her just screaming "Evil". This isn't on par with the Smarty Pants incident, this is a royal family member and an official royal wedding. This is pretty much as serious as it can get. Also, Twilight picks the near enough the worst way to bring these issues up - at the wedding rehersal, and considering how we don't see a night transistion, I think we can rightly assume the wedding is on the exact same day! One of the things I like about Twilight is that she is smart and knows when and how to act. The way she handled herself was pretty OOC for her in my opinion. As for the others, they were already aware of Twilight's possessiveness of her brother, even after the Mane Six discussed it the previous night. Yeah, a lot of people claim they didn't learn their lesson from season zero, but unlike then, in this episode they actually did take the time to listen to Twilight's concerns. All they see is her badmouthing the bride for no reason other than possessive jealousy and an inability to be happy for her brother even after they tried to reassure her, which must have really disappointed them in her. As for Princess Celestia, she has taught and pretty much brought up Twilight, acting like a surrogate mother to her and sent her to Ponyville to learn more social skills. Seeing her prize student acting so immaturely really must have disappointed her because she knows Twilight knows better than that. It's made worse because Cadence is Celestia's niece, her family. She and Twilight are close, but family is still family. Shining Armor himself is an even more special case. He and Twilight are siblings and close ones at that, however there has been a certain tension between them over Twilight not being notified earlier on. However, he did expect Twilight to as least be happy for him and the foalsitter she loved. There was no reason, from his point of view, why she should not be accepting of their upcoming union. So when Twilight came bursting in and screeching her accusations like a harpy at who he believes is the mare he loves, she ended up really hurting and alienating him, again because of this aforementioned inability to be happy for him. It's also important to note that if we go by that SA was not as brainwashed yet and was genuinely upset was Twilight, it shows how much he really does love Cadence, as he's willing to defend her. We also have to keep in mind that SA's explanations were not diabolical in their intent and sounded perfectly believable in context, thus he and the others' reactions can be seen as further justified, which only makes the sting of it all even more painful. I mean, for all we knew, he was right and Twilight was wrong and had just been possessive. Hell, if not for the episode's very last minute, or even half-minute and the episode ended BEFORE that, we would have thought she was wrong too. Then how would the viewers have initially felt? Would it have been all "oh, poor Twilight" or that and "oh, Twilight, you moron!"? Also, on a minor note, I think SA telling her not to the wedding come is kinda a given, because why should she come to a wedding she's clearly opposed to even happening? I don’t see it as 'you're not allowed to come so to punish you' as it is 'if this is how you feel, then don't come'.

Let's not be too quick to make that judgement on the Changelings. The Changelings we've seen so far on the show are part of the ARMY. My guess is that the animators made them all look alike because how easier it would be to do that than give each of them unique appearances, especially considering there were about a thousand of them. If the writors got to individual changelings not in the army, but say in a homeland where the women and children are, and yes I am perhaps one of the handful of people who like to believe they have their own homeland and society, deal with it, then those individual changelings may have drastically their own appearances, including mane and their own colours. If the writers went down that road, then having a group of changelings whose roles and personalities are not that similar to the Mane Six, but their appearances are, then maybe that could work.

I think it could work, exception that the Changeling Mane Six aren't genetically created as counterparts to the Mane Six, they are just ordinary Changelings who are by chance doppelgangers to them. It's kind of like that Recess episode where the gang went to play kickball in a rival school and found that the players and school were eerily similar to them. I'd like to see Pinkie Pie and Changeling Pinkie Pie do that 'Am I looking in a mirror?' gag by moving symmetrically to each other and pulling faces at each other.

The Changeling HOMELAND. Not just some kingdom the army has conquered, but the actual homeland, including architecture, social norms and values, etc. The Griffin Empire, I'm thinking something along the lines of Imperial Germany.

I highly doubt that. They'll get out eventually. Like Twilight said, they won't be able to get out "for a while", that line therefore pretty much enables them to eventually get out of the castle. Don't take it that they won't return to in Season 4 entirely. I don't think the Changelings are just going to be tossed aside like that, especially as they have still so much potential. I kind of think you're presuming a bit too much from the comic, the continuity of which is still kinda semi. Well, again, like I said, the comics make it kind of vague. It does not explicitly say they do not have a kingdom or if there are not females (it's an army, not necessarily the entire species). Like I said, it can be inferred there is no kingdom, but nothing is for certain, hence why what the writers did with the Changelings here was so clever. It showed off how dangerous the Changelings are without causing any permanent conflict of canon with the show. I mean, okay, so they're currently stuck in the castle, big whoop, by the time of the show, they'll eventually get out for their next big scheme or hopefully, they're redemption/making peace with Equestria (here's hoping).

It's cool, mate. Well, they flat out stated WHY they wanted to invade Equestira, to feed on their love. But if there was a way for Changelings to feed off love without harming the ponies, then maybe a way could be formed for Changelings and Ponies to live in peace.

I've been thinking about it, and I think the way they handled the Changelings was very clever, not just because of how menacing and threatening they made them, but also because it was vague enough to reduce the possibility of canon clash in the future. The comic takes what we knew of the Changelings in the show and fleshes them out more, like how precisely they eat love, their conquering kingdoms, their shapeshifting skills and the ways they can use them to their advantage. But as for things like their origins and homeland, what they do has some implications, but still vague enough that if the show goes in a certain direction with them, we could take the comic and the show as both equally valid. I mean, for example, we saw the Changelings conquer a kingdom, raising the question of whether they're nomads or if they do have a homeland. The comic never really answers the question, but that's good because we don't know if the Changelings are set to reappear in Season 4. Now if the show confirms that they are indeed nomads, no clash in canon, but if they are shown to have a homeland, then it could easily be inferred that Chrysalis had taken absence from the crown and picked an army to accompany on her in a crusade for more land, it just got more muddled and personal with Twilight and the rest of the Mane Six' interference. It all works out either way the show goes, so props for the writers on that. Just to let you know, my headcanon and fanfics on the Changeling Homeland is based on the Far East like Imperial Japan and Korea (the North being more appropriate for the Changelings). I dunno, for me, it just really creates this contrast between it and Equestria North American/Western European culture, and god willing, if the show does go in that direction, it'd be great to see some East Asian architecture and culture shown through it. But also, picture this; Changeling Samurais!

Well, of course, I didn't say she was "doing it just for fun", but what I was saying was that it does show that she and Equestria are willing to forgive those who have hurt them and befriend them. And the Changelings powers can also be used to the Equestrians' advantage.These guys would OWN espionage and guerrilla warfare.

Well, ya see, I'm not sure if I personally do. I like to think the Changelings have their own society and culture. To me, that just makes it more interesting. Now sure, nomads have societies and cultures too, I mean look at the Huns and the modern day Gypsies, but I'd just like to see things like Changeling architecture, cities, families and social norms. Something like from the Far East like Japan and Korea would be particularly interesting.

I only really take the comics as semi-canon. But yes, that is a good point. We'll just have to see what the show have to say about it when or if they appear in that again? I mean, if there is a contradiction between the show and comic, I'll side with the show.

I'd definitely like to see an episode with the ponies and Changelings, not necessarily becoming friends, but forming a peace or promise of non-aggression. I mean, come on people, if Celestia is so willing to give Discord, freaking DISCORD a chance to reform, then sorry, I cannot see any reason we she would not be willing to extend a friendly hoof to the Changelings. Here's my episode idea: In order to try and establish a sense of Peaceful Coexistence (doubtfully the word used) between Equestria and the Changeling Kingdom, Chrysalis' daughter, the young Princess Pupa is sent over as an exchange student/take a tour of Equestria. The gang expect the daughter to be a fierce, black-hearted warrior-like princess, but when she arrives in her armored train (accompanied by armed guard) she is revealed to be a tiny, bespectacled and all around adorably sweet Changeling (add in asthma and the frequent use of inhaler) who could rival Sweetie Belle in terms of giving a viewer diabetes by her sheer cuteness. Of course, we have the usual shenanigans with cultural clashes (bonus points if the Changelings' culture is given an explanation, something from the Far East like Japan and Korea would be really interesting), with a written message/threat by Chrysalis to the Mane Six that if a single hair on Pupa's pig tailed mane is hurt, she'll personally bite their heads off one by one. However, some of the Mane Six decide they want to see if they can pump any secret information about Changeling government and military secrets out of the filly (behind Celestia's back) by sending in the CMC to befriend her. They eventually get nothing and are surprised (despite Pupa's young age and already innocent appearance and demeanor) that she knows little to nothing of her mother's dealings and plans - she doesn't even know about the Canterlot Invasion, which can lead to a classic Fawlty Towers, "Don't mention the war/invasion!" set of jokes. A good twist in the plot is that the CMC and Pupa go missing, and remembering Chrysalis' warning, begin a desperate search for them. Or a good emotional scene where Pupa finds out and believes the CMC used her, only for them to make up again in the end. I can definitely see this working out if it is done well. I'd like to see Dave Polsky or Meghan take a shot at it. Can't think of a title though. Free Brohoof to anyone who can come up with a title for this idea.

I take the comics as SOMEWHAT canon. I acknowledge they exist, though for me, if there is a contradiction, what happens in the show will always be more canon than the comics.

Well, that's really the fanon interpretation. There was much fanon interpretation of Discord prior to his reform episode, most of that being torpedoed now.

Ugh, I'm a firm opponent of the hive idea. It just doesn't allow then to show Changelings as individuals with their own friends and families. But still, we're all entitled to our own opinions and fanon, so yeah. I guess it would be nice to see Chrysalis have a cute little morality pet in having a cute, nice daughter.

I'd definitely like to see an episode with the ponies and Changelings, not necessarily becoming friends, but forming a peace or promise of non-aggression. I mean, come on people, if Celestia is so willing to give Discord, freaking DISCORD a chance to reform, then sorry, I cannot see any reason we she would not be willing to extend a friendly hoof to the Changelings. Here's my episode idea: In order to try and establish a sense of Peaceful Coexistence (doubtfully the word used) between Equestria and the Changeling Kingdom, Chrysalis' daughter, the young Princess Pupa is sent over as an exchange student/take a tour of Equestria. The gang expect the daughter to be a fierce, black-hearted warrior-like princess, but when her armored train arrives (accompanies by armed guard) she is revealed to be a tiny, bespectacled and all around adorably sweet Changeling (add in asthma and the frequent use of inhaler) who could rival Sweetie Belle in terms of giving a viewer diabetes by her sheer cuteness. Of course, we have the usual shenanigans with cultural clashes (bonus points if the Changelings' culture is given an explanation, something from the Far East like Japan and Korea would be really interesting), with a written message/threat by Chrysalis to the Mane Six that if a single hair on Pupa's pig tailed mane is hurt, she'll personally bite their heads off one by one. However, some of the Mane Six decide they want to see if they can pump any secret information about Changeling government and military secrets out of the filly (behind Celestia's back) by sending in the CMC to befriend her. They eventually get nothing and are surprised (despite Pupa's young age and already innocent appearance and demeanor) that she knows little to nothing of her mother's dealings and plans - she doesn't even know about the Canterlot Invasion, which can lead to a classic Fawlty Towers, "Don't mention the war/invasion!" set of jokes. A good twist in the plot is that the CMC and Pupa go missing, and remembering Chrysalis' warning, begin a desperate search for them. I can definitely see this working out if it is done well. I'd like to see Dave Polsky or Meghan take a shot at it. Can't think of a title though. Free Brohoof to anyone who can come up with a title for this idea.

1. Hmm, sounds good, but I doubt it would be made into a full episode. Maybe as a subplot or a lengthy scene dedicated it could work. 2. That could work, just as long as the writers try to avoid every cliche in the book set out by fanfictions. 3. Ooo, that would be intense. I always liked the idea of her having her own child. Who knows? Maybe hers and SA and C's kid meet up and become friends, much to their parents' chagrin? 4. I could definitely see the reasoning in that, though we do have the comics, though how canon they are is up to the reader. Also, just wondering, do you have a possible title for my episode idea? I can't think of anything. I've always had a problem with titles.

This is to discuss the possibility of a future episode centred on the Changelings. However, one thing I must stress is that this episode idea has to be feasible, thus it could actually possibly happen and be worked into an actual episode. I've seen plenty of fanfictions, most of which I'm sure you'd agree would never happen in the show, mostly because the Changelings are excused and sanctified whilst the ponies are turned into the freaking Third Reich. You guys know what stories I'm talking about. But this Topic here is to discuss the idea for a potential episode. So what's my take? I'd definitely like to see an episode with the ponies and Changelings, not necessarily becoming friends, but forming a peace or promise of non-aggression. I mean, come on people, if Celestia is so willing to give Discord, freaking DISCORD a chance to reform, then sorry, I cannot see any reason we she would not be willing to extend a friendly hoof to the Changelings. Here's my episode idea: In order to try and establish a sense of Peaceful Coexistence (doubtfully the word used) between Equestria and the Changeling Kingdom, Chrysalis' daughter, the young Princess Pupa is sent over as an exchange student/take a tour of Equestria. The gang expect the daughter to be a fierce, black-hearted warrior-like princess, but when she arrives in her armored train (accompanied by armed guard) she is revealed to be a tiny, bespectacled and all around adorably sweet Changeling (add in asthma and the frequent use of inhaler) who could rival Sweetie Belle in terms of giving a viewer diabetes by her sheer cuteness. Of course, we have the usual shenanigans with cultural clashes (bonus points if the Changelings' culture is given an explanation, something from the Far East like Japan and Korea would be really interesting), with a written message/threat by Chrysalis to the Mane Six that if a single hair on Pupa's pig tailed mane is hurt, she'll personally bite their heads off one by one. However, some of the Mane Six decide they want to see if they can pump any secret information about Changeling government and military secrets out of the filly (behind Celestia's back) by sending in the CMC to befriend her. They eventually get nothing and are surprised (despite Pupa's young age and already innocent appearance and demeanor) that she knows little to nothing of her mother's dealings and plans - she doesn't even know about the Canterlot Invasion, which can lead to a classic Fawlty Towers, "Don't mention the war/invasion!" set of jokes. A good twist in the plot is that the CMC and Pupa go missing, and remembering Chrysalis' warning, begin a desperate search for them. UPDATE: OR Chrysalis' daughter and heir (a spoiled, sheltered brat in this scenario), has grown tired of palace life and wants to experience life as an ordinary filly. She knows it'll be difficult to do so amongst fillies of her own kind, so she sneaks out and somehow or another, travels to Equestria in the disguise of a unicorn filly where she ends up in Ponyville and meets the CMC. At first, she is excited, but the spoiled, sheltered Princess quickly becomes disgusted by the "filthy, common peasants" and only sticks around because unlike her mother, she adores apples and apple pie. Meanwhile, the Mane Six become suspicious of the filly. A lot like her mother, the Princess is a VERY bad actor and it soon becomes blaring obvious she is a Changeling, what with her mannerisms and inconsistent story. What really clinches it is that Chrysalis, realizing her baby is missing and suspecting Equestria of kidnap, issues a threat against Equestria to return her "precious little baby" or she will launch another invasion and the Mane Six put two and two together. When they confront her in the sand box, the Princess' immediate response is to throw sand in their eyes and bolt. Thus begins the chase scene, where the kid pulls off a few tricks, taking after her mother, by pulling off a wounded gazelle gambit of her own by making bystanders think the others are hurting an innocent filly ("Help! Help! Those mean mares are trying to hurt me for no reason!"). Eventually, they catch her, force her to drop the disguise and must take her back to her mother without it making it indeed look like they kidnapped her. I can definitely see these working out if it is done well. I'd like to see Dave Polsky or Meghan take a shot at it. Can't think of a title though. Free Brohoof to anyone who can come up with a title for these ideas. So this is my idea for a workable future Changeling plot, what's yours?

Actually, it does not necessarily mean they don't have a homeland. They could turn those areas they conquer into imperial colonies, like an empire of sorts.

I have an episode idea for Season 4: In order to try and establish a sense of Peaceful Coexistence between Equestria and the Changeling Kingdom, Chrysalis' daughter, the young Princess Pupa is sent over as an exchange student/take a tour of Equestria. The gang expect the daughter to be a fierce, blood thirsty warrior, but when she arrives (accompanies by armed guard) she is revealed to be a tiny, bespectacled and all around adorably sweet Changeling (add in asthma and the frequent use of inhaler) who could rival Sweetie Belle in terms of giving a viewer diabetes by her sheer cuteness. Of course, we have the usual shenanigans, with a written message/threat by Chrysalis to the Mane Six that if a single hair on Pupa's pig tailed mane is hurt, she'll personally bite their heads off one by one. However, some of the Mane Six decide they want to see if they can pump any secret information out of the filly (behind Celestia's back) by sending in the CMC to befriend her. They eventually get nothing and are surprised (despite Pupa's already innocent appearance and demeanor) that she knows little to nothing of her mother's dealings and plans - she doesn't even know about the Canterlot Invasion, which can lead to a classic Fawlty Towers, "Don't mention the war/invasion!" set of jokes. A good twist in the plot is that the CMC and Pupa go missing, and remembering Chrysalis' warning, begin a desperate search for them.

Equestria would basically just become an Imperial colony for the Changeling Kingdom. The Changelings would plunder the love and the resources of Equestria for their own benefit but keep the ponies well fed and looked after so they could keep feeding off them. I actually imagine some ponies possibly benefiting from Changeling rule.