mega thread Feminist Club!

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

May I join this club? I consider myself a feminist, even though I am pretty much never vocal about it. I also just joined the Forums, but I had read this thread before and have been wanting to join even before entering the Forums. Plus, I’m sad to see this thread doesn’t get as much attention as it’s fitting for something that important.

Well, I think that, for now, I’ll just answer the questions Jennabun prepared for newcomers:

 

- When and why did you become a feminist?

 Somewhere around march of 2015(yes, it was pretty sudden, actually). I’m pretty sure it was because of seeing the mane six saving the world and being happy with only help from themselves; that, and also the overall show made me open to actually see the problems and consider feminism. Also, I think this thread was the last push for me, along with me noticing misogyny from atheists(I am one), which was really disappointing and also made me think more about this.

 

- Why do you think feminism is still relevant to today's world?

 Because it is. The problems are quite clear after any unbuyest look. Women are clearly seen and treated as inferior in our culture and have much more trouble because of their gender.

 

- What is difficult about being a feminist in general?

 Well, although I’m a male, I can’t anymore ignore that women are treated unfairly; kinda like ignorance is bliss.

 

- How do you think feminism gets treated in the MLP fandom?

I’ve been reading stuff in the fandom for a little while and didn’t see anything about feminism. But, I’d assume it would actually be welcomed: it’s probably impossible to like MLP and not be a feminist, even though one might dislike the label; you’d have to be ignoring everything on the show for that.

 

- How does MLP support your feminist values?

 Well, the show is a 100% feminist: it’s all about six girls who do stuff on their own only needing their friendship; they’re all strong and really admirable characters.

 

- How do people react when you say you're a feminist?

 Yes... I’m actually ashamed of saying so, but I’m kind of a closet feminist; except for these Forums.

 

- What is awesome about being a feminist?

 Well, not being able to ignore that women are treated unfairly.

 

- How has feminism affected you personally?

 I feel more confident about being myself; I noticed the stupidity of trying to protect my masculinity from anything that is sensitive or cute, and now I feel like I can be who I am.

 

- What are some good feminist quotes, graphics, or articles?

 Sorry, I got nothing on that; I would only be able to mention Emma Watson’s speech and not much else.

 

Thank you! =)

Edited August 16, 2015 by IDoNotSpeakEnglish

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I wonder how many other non-traditional male feminists like myself aspire to be considered an honorary woman.

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

 

 

 

 

RE-POSTED FROM FACEBOOK:

 

 

T.S.T Photography

 

I write this with a Heavy heart. Today I saw a post of my child hood friend that tore me apart. During conversation she said "we need to do a shoot to raise awareness about domestic violence" I said, "yeah we can any weekend" (thinking the normal, makeup and such) swamped with editing and deadlines, she says to me "no, like, as in now, i want it to be real" without hesitation, I agreed.. I was taken back by her courage, in a time where so many women just don't have it. 

This is not makeup, this is Brooke, my beautiful friend, a mother, a model, an all around amazing woman....with real bruises. This is, real. Brooke's strength during this time is everything you hope for in someone who has experienced such trauma. 80% of the women who are abused, do not speak about it... and they do not leave. Brooke, days later, decided she was going to speak out and stand up, with courage and confidence. She was going to be the voice for the countless other women who didn't and don't have one. 

Photography to me is about changing the world, its about educating others, its about inspiring others, its about expressing yourself. Its about making people aware of things they had no idea were going on in the world we live in. Photography to me is much more than the "adorable family shoots" and the "fashion shoots" its about, making a change. 1 in 4 women are affected everyday by domestic violence and men are too. I noticed upon looking for inspiration for this session that... there really isnt anything out there... and if there is...I am unaware. I was taken back by the fact that there wasn't much, and WE hope to change that. I also hope that through Brooke's courage and strength we can give other women the strength to come forward and help put this man away.. She is the only one out of many to take a stand.

 

By liking this photo you do not "support" what happened to Brooke or any other person. You are showing your support for someone who decided to speak out, who decided she was going to be the one to make it stop and help others.... you are also making it OK for other women to know that its ok to talk about it, its ok to walk away and that, they have support. I feel at a loss for words, unsure if these are even the right ones to write. I just know, we just know, its gotta stop.... we know we cant make it stop entirely, but we know we have the power to make a difference in someones life, and that right there... if even just 1, is all that matters.

 

#silencehidesviolence

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2015 by Shawn Parks

[BabylonSister 218]

I was always a feminist, I just didnt know it. I was absolutely rancorous when my childhood friend told me I couldn't try out his bb gun cause I was a girl. I always resented people using gender to identify strength, emotion, etc. even when its an issue of a man being 'too sensitive' or girly. I was tired of people assigning such unfair rolls based on gender so I started looking around and found out what feminism is. Ever since ive been a self proclaimed feminist and have been breaking through gender barriers. Im a welder now and ive shot a rifle a few times, so take that! ; D (Im a very good shot by the way )

 

What bothers me just as much as putting women down, is radical feminism. My best friend since kindergarten recently (in the last two years) became super feminist all the time.at first, I thought 'good for her' and it didn't really bother me much. She had always been an empowering voice in my life, and i didnt think this was any different. But i saw a gradual chande in her. She was so serious all the time, and would berate someone if they slipped up and said something mildly offensive to feminists, even if they recanted the statement. Her friends now walk on eggshells around her and her views have slowly but surely shifted to be more radical. She is generally aggressive, and her quality of life is not what it used to be, im sure. Even I stopped hanging out with her. And I never thought that would happen. It just made me really sad to see something so cool like feminism turn into something... not cool. In any way.

 

I just try my best to enjoy my life the way I want to and not let anyone put me or my friends, male or female, down. I think thats what feminism is really about. Cause what good is something thats supposed to invrease your quality of life doing you if you sacrifice your quality of life to achieve AND maintain it? Seems unnecessary and unpleasant to say the least.

I hope everyone has a good day! And enjoys whatever they're doing today to the fullest.

Edited September 3, 2015 by BabylonSister

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I always resented people using gender to identify strength, emotion, etc. even when its an issue of a man being 'too sensitive' or girly. 

 

 

Yeah, I hate gender stereotypes.

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

It occurred to me that a man who commits domestic violence is like a changeling.  He pretends to be someone he is not in order to get close to his victim.  Then the victim's love gives the abuser the power to hurt her.  By the time she realizes who he really is, he has gained too much power from her love and she is unable to escape.

 

 

 

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

It would be nice to see more posts on this thread.  

 

 

Has this thread died off?

 

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Shawn Parks

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

It would be nice to see more posts on this thread.  

 

 

Has this thread died off?

 

 

 Oh, I still have no idea about what to post here, but I guess I'll just do it now; as it has been almost a month without new posts here. Guess it's kinda hard without a discussion already going on here, you know? I'm sorry, but I also don't want this thread to die off...

[Draxon 214]

Frankly, I'm unsure of what to post to this topic, as well, other than the introduction I made.  I suppose I could talk about an experience I had here at my college a few weeks ago.  I belong to a politics club which meets every one or two weeks and talks about some agreed upon subject.  Last week it was the death penalty, and the previous week it was the Syrian refugee crisis.  Articles and videos containing background information are sent to the members of the club, and then we meet and have a debate.  Somebody brought up feminism as one potential topic to discuss, but there was some tangible anxiety from certain members of the club, and the idea was shot down for fear that people would be at each other's throats.  In fact, I've encountered very similar reactions when interacting with other groups here at college, as well.  Has anyone else experienced the same difficulty with initiating a conversation about feminism, and does anyone have any advice on how to resolve it?  It seems strange that we can openly discuss things like corporal punishment and refugee crises and not feel comfortable talking about gender inequality.

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

Frankly, I'm unsure of what to post to this topic, as well, other than the introduction I made.  I suppose I could talk about an experience I had here at my college a few weeks ago.  I belong to a politics club which meets every one or two weeks and talks about some agreed upon subject.  Last week it was the death penalty, and the previous week it was the Syrian refugee crisis.  Articles and videos containing background information are sent to the members of the club, and then we meet and have a debate.  Somebody brought up feminism as one potential topic to discuss, but there was some tangible anxiety from certain members of the club, and the idea was shot down for fear that people would be at each other's throats.  In fact, I've encountered very similar reactions when interacting with other groups here at college, as well.  Has anyone else experienced the same difficulty with initiating a conversation about feminism, and does anyone have any advice on how to resolve it?  It seems strange that we can openly discuss things like corporal punishment and refugee crises and not feel comfortable talking about gender inequality.

  Thank you very much. Unfortunately, I, for one, don’t have experience on talking to people about feminism. But I think that taboos aren't broken that easily, there's probably not much one can do alone. I’d guess that, in the popular opinion, feminism is always associated with extremism, so people get afraid of discussing it. Also... maybe it has to do with it usually being personal; which seems harder to happen with refugee crisis and corporal punishment(even if one was corporally punished, that probaly was in childhood, and it’d be half forgotten by adulthood). While, with feminism, people will probably have met a feminist before, probably have seen examples of sexism, or even have suffered it(and that already in adulthood); which would probably lead many to have an strong opinion on the subject: because they have been pushed in some direction at some point. Just like religion or politics, it’s a topic in which people tend to have very strong and cherished opinions that they want to protect; so, if there’s a debate, they get heated and fight over it; still, since they know what happens in debates, it’s probably best to avoid fighting, to avoid having such opinions questioned, to avoid the risk of losing and, most importantly, avoid changing your opinion; so, there is much to fear from discussing that kind of topic, subjects of the kind are never discussed, which makes them taboos(I think it’s wrong to protect opinions that way, I’m just saying it seems to be the natural course of action for quite some people)...

 ...or I'm just speaking nonsense; sorry, I don't know. Anyway, someone else should probably have something useful to say about that problem.

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I started a thread about the "Supergirl" TV show coming to CBS.  Who wants to post on it?

 

 

 

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

So, did anyone watch Supergirl?

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

So, did anyone watch Supergirl?

  Oh, I did! =) I was wondering if it was okay to talk about it outside of Media Discussion... But I really wanted to see some opinions on it and discuss it here. =)

 

 

 

  Well, I really liked the pilot episode! I always liked that the show had an strong female protagonist, but I was entirely sure they would mess it up in some stupid sexist way(like, having her depend on SuperMan all the time, or making her an scaredy cat, or making her wear ridiculously sexualized clothing, etc.), but... the show was actually over the top feminist! They even mentioned the one problem I always had with it: that it's SuperGirl instead of SuperWoman. The worst criticism I'd have of it is that the feminist message may have gotten a bit too unsubtle, in one scene at least; but I know that that's what it's trying to do, and it's fantastic to see that these days. Overall, I'm still astonished that the show did please my feminism.

  And, although I'm not good at criticizing this kinda stuff, just as a show... it wasn't mindless action as I expected; it had a lot more talking than what I thought it would. The stuff with the villains, aliens and the whole explanation for the action sounded a bit silly, but the actual action scenes were pretty cool. And, most important, I like the actress and how she plays SuperGirl: she acts very dignified while wearing that silly costume, and she actually has that "I'mma beat you up" pose that I want to see in a heroine like that. I planned just to watch the first episode and have it be a major let down, but now I'm looking forward to the second one! =)

 

 

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

Shows like Supergirl always need to include scenes in which the heroine proves the sexist people wrong.  I look forward to the day when scenes like that are no longer needed, because no credible person would disparage someone just for being a girl.

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

Shows like Supergirl always need to include scenes in which the heroine proves the sexist people wrong.  I look forward to the day when scenes like that are no longer needed, because no credible person would disparage someone just for being a girl.

  Agree. Well, what I was talking about is that a character told someone off for being sexist, but I think it was uncalled for because the person probably wasn't being sexist; and there are many other moments in which sexism is proven wrong in the episode. Well, the scene I'm talking about was:

 

 

  I don't think it's an spoiler at all to describe that scene. The SuperGirl was in a mission and the (male)commander said that she's not strong enough, and the sister says "Why? Because she's just a girl?". Now, he is the commander and he was just making an statement about how the mission seemed to be going to him(his job); whoever they could have sent could have been too weak, and that guy would have said that. If it was a car chase he could have said "Our car's not fast enough!", and I don't think anyone would have said "Why? Just because it's not a ferrari?". It just seemed a bit extreme, you know? Specially since that guy's problem with her seems to be racism against aliens instead of sexism.

 

 

  So, I'm glad the show can even be considered feminist; it's just that that line in that context sounded like the feminist extremism that is so dreaded, the type of feminism everyone complains about, and made it all look a bit more over the top; which is not bad, just... sounded like a thin line to me, which I figured I'd mention. It just seemed like being so upfront would make the show unpopular with a general audience; which, again, is not important, I was just extremely surprised with such bold choices from the show makers; sorry.

[Miles 2,512]

So, it's been awhile since I've posted here... (sad to say that I almost want to believe part of the reason for that is because Jennabun hasn't been on here for a while - Aug 15 was her last login - but anwho)...

I found a video very relevant to this thread that I wanted to share.

Now, this video is from a woman who [essentially] doesn't like feminism; though this video is more focused on a YouTube feminist advocate, Laci Green.  Keep in mind that I am not trying to start anything bad, but rather, wish to hear some of your thoughts on this lady's ideas.

Though I do agree with many feminist ideas... (and though I do enjoy a few of Laci's videos)... I happen to agree with the above woman's arguments.

~ Miles

[Draxon 214]

I also agree with much of what she's saying in that video.  I like how she points out that the drop in her audience's age range might simply be because she speaks to her audience like they were children, and not necessarily because the younger generations are being exposed to more and more media of a sexual nature (not to say that isn't an issue, but using that data in that way is misleading).

 

I think she might also be right about Laci having a double standard concerning "poor decisions".  Laci seems to be saying that only women suffer when a poor decision is made, but as Diana points out, men are often accused, and frequently convicted, of rape as a result.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Diana's argument relating to that 12 year old's music video.  Laci does say that people of that age are "distracted" by puberty.  Diana therefore says that complaining about a sexualized 12 year old is a double standard, but I disagree.  I think that Laci's real complaint is about the age at which a person is mature enough to explore sexuality responsibly.  Please let me know if I'm interpreting that section incorrectly.

 

I think that Diana does have a valid point concerning the types of Halloween costumes offered to women - that is, nobody buys a costume they don't feel comfortable wearing.  I could be wrong on that front, though, and I'm curious to hear what other people think.

 

Agree with her or not, Diana does impart an important message in her video.  If you're going to give people advice on sexuality, you need to speak to them as adults, be consistent, explain why your opinions change if and when they do, think carefully about the consequences which might occur if people do follow your advice, and above all, encourage people to take responsibility.  Based on this video, I'm not convinced that Laci is setting a positive example.  Also, she seems very intense and full of conviction in her videos, which, given the subject matter, is scary.  My personal philosophy is that in all things (except religion), we must accept the possibility that we are wrong.

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I think she might also be right about Laci having a double standard concerning "poor decisions".  Laci seems to be saying that only women suffer when a poor decision is made, but as Diana points out, men are often accused, and frequently convicted, of rape as a result.

 

 

I thought that Laci was right when she said that everyone is stupid, and that it is unfair that promiscuity is seen as a poor decision only for women.  I think the opposing comment about rape accusations was irrelevant to what Laci was saying.

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

  Oh, I’m also very sad that Jennabun seems to have left! I’ve always admired her so much. Anyways... that video seems to kinda miss the point of the thread: it’s purpose is simply to discuss feminism in a positive way instead of reponding to criticism against feminism. Still, that’s a very interesting video. =) Although I don’t quite feel good questioning it, since I don’t know anything about that person(by Draxon’s text, I think her name is Diana) or about Jenna, and all I’ve watched about Laci was this video:

 

 

 

 

So, I’ll be trusting Diana, which is not good to criticize Laci or Jenna. Still, it took me a lot of words to explain what I think. I am sorry for not beince concise; I’ll organize it in spoilers. Also... I do sound like I’m really sure when I’m trying to be objective, but I don’t mean it like that; it’s really just my uninformed opinion, and I'd love to be called out on what I got wrong. =)

 

 

About Jenna and Laci's demographic. From beginning to 4:43.

 

 

  I didn’t like what Jenna said. She shouldn’t judge others by how much sex they have, nor does she get to say that it’s just better not to have much sex. I agree that it’s everyone’s choice to decide what to do with their bodies; but, is it really a choice if you can have a lot of sex as long as you are ready to be shunned and judged by others? Do I also have the choice of not giving my money to that gang of armed robbers? She is the one actually being hyprocritical by saying that it’s everyone’s choice... they’ll just have to endure her judgement depending on which one.

 

  Now, Laci made a bad move with the way she edited someone else’s video... didn’t seem to change anything, but it did look “shady” and reduced her credibility; she should have done her best to represent someone else’s ideas as fairly as possible.

 

  I agree that one makes content based on the target demographic and that that is the demographic that will tend to watch that content; of course she can’t choose who watches her videos but, if she holds the status of “sexual educator”, she must be more serious and take responsibility for every single aspect of her content and be more careful about the consequences they might have.

 

 

 

About Laci on sexism and Diana missing the point. From 4:43 to 8:18.

 

 

  I think that Laci is right about how women will be considered just “whores” if they have too much sex, people will frown upon women that don’t have sex in an way that they approve; women shouldn’t have to try to meet those expectations, they should be free to make use of their agency and decide how and how much sex they have.

 

  Now, if the name of the person making the video is “Diana”, Diana does have a point too: men do also suffer many unfair expectations, they are also forced to conform to gender roles. What I think is that that point has no point in being there. Diana is saying that Laci is hypocritical because this thing that she didn’t say contradicts what she said. I assume Laci never said any of that in her videos, otherwise Diana would have showed the footage; then, the problem is that Laci criticizes what society says is bad behavior for women but doesn’t criticize how we treat men, therefore, Diana is left to assume that Laci agrees with sexism towards men; as she clearly does when she says "and we're gonna find out who's people in the world of Laci Green", meaning that Diana doesn't believe it's possible to adress one group at a time. But Laci is simply not talking about men. Well, that might be a problem, and that would be a legitimate point... for later. Laci is talking about women, and Diana says that she is hypocritical because she didn’t present her position on this other thing that is just related to the subject. Although the accusations about rape are surely a subject to be discussed, I agree with Shawn Parks: it’s just irrelevant to what Laci was saying. Diana does have her points, but, if she wants to criticize what Laci says, she should criticize what Laci says instead of something entirely different ; but as she did, she can’t call Laci hypocritical just because of this(in fact, it’s more like the other way around).

 

  I agree that we are stupid and prone to make bad decisions, and that it’s not right that we, society, decide that promiscuity is one stupidity for women. And Diana says that, at least in Laci’s utopia, only men are accountable for their actions: women can just shout “rape” and men go to jail, because, nowadays, everyone believes an woman when she says she’s been raped. Diana says that sexism is when we say that women need special care, that they need people to decide for them; that when they make a bad decision it’s not their fault, we’re all stupid anyway; but, if men do, they’re rapists. Then, Diana shows a clip of Jenna saying that women need to be saved and that we should decide for them, and Diana seems to agree.

  And, again, I ask “Where did that come from?!”. We are all stupid, so we should be aware of that and be careful. Laci’s point was that women should decide for themselves instead of letting society decide that promiscuity is stupid for them; women, just like all others, must be aware of stupidity and, therefore, carefully ponder individually and not let society decide what’s stupid by forcing gender roles upon us all. But Diana got it completely backwards; and, honestly, I don’t see how one could possibly understand Laci’s words in the way she did.

  I think Diana is incredibly wrong when she says only men have consequences. Is she saying that women won’t be considered sluts for having much sex? Is she saying rape doesn’t happen? Or is she saying that it’s not a bad thing? That we should ignore women’s accusations because they’re all whiny little liars? That men don’t rape? Well, I shall assume that she only thinks that we shouldn’t “just” believe women; that we should actually use the legal system and make investigations... Well, that was an obvious point. Still, it is bad that men get false accusations by hypocritical women that decide to frame someone for their bad decision and also that true accusations aren’t trusted just because some people have Diana’s mindset. I really think that the legal system is a good idea, it just has the problem of sexism in both ways.

 

 

 

About the video with the 12-years-old and end. From 8:18 to the end.

 

 

  About the video with the girl. Laci says that 12-years-old shouldn’t be sexualized, and Diana points out that Laci has double standards because she clearly doesn’t mind when it’s her audience; I disagree. I think Laci is complaining about a kid being sexualized and having her sexuality exploited for entertainment in a music video, but she does welcome kids to learn about their sexuality. I believe in sex education and I think kids should be exposed to that, but I don’t think kids should be sexualized for all to see. Diana seems to twist what Laci says so then, and only then, she can criticize it.

  I partially agree with Diana about “slutty” halloween costumes. Just like the behavior of having sex with everybody should not be frowned upon, women do have the right to choose her costumes, and Laci is being sexist for saying that all women are just forced to wear slutty costumes. But Diana is forgetting to consider that there also are social pressures and “social indoctrination” that pushes women in that direction(just like it would be unnaceptable for a men to seriously dress and pretend to be a princess).

 

  So, I think that Diana is the most wrong here; still, Laci seems to hold the status of a sex educator. So she must stop talking to people like children and make it serious; if she used proper english insted of that simplified language in those childishly fast paced videos full of jump-cuts, then maybe her message wouldn’t be so easily taken in different ways. I think Diana is being pretentious, but Laci is being very arrogant just by being a “sex educator” with such childish attitude. Once again, Diana has good points that must be discussed, but she used most in a hypocritical way.

 

 

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

 

 

About the video with the girl. Laci says that 12-years-old shouldn’t be sexualized, and Diana points out that Laci has double standards because she clearly doesn’t mind when it’s her audience; I disagree. I think Laci is complaining about a kid being sexualized and having her sexuality exploited for entertainment in a music video, but she does welcome kids to learn about their sexuality. I believe in sex education and I think kids should be exposed to that, but I don’t think kids should be sexualized for all to see. Diana seems to twist what Laci says so then, and only then, she can criticize it.

 

 

I agree with you.  Laci seems to be saying that schools need to cut kids some slack when they are distracted by their feelings while going through puberty.  And then in a different video she says that adults should not be intentionally sexualizing children to make music videos.  I see those as two legitimate viewpoints that in no way contradict each other.

I found a video very relevant to this thread that I wanted to share.

 

Now, this video is from a woman who [essentially] doesn't like feminism; though this video is more focused on a YouTube feminist advocate, Laci Green.  Keep in mind that I am not trying to start anything bad, but rather, wish to hear some of your thoughts on this lady's ideas.

 

 

I click the "dislike" button on very few YouTube videos.  My policy is generally to tell people what I like about their video or to just not say anything at all.  But on this one, I felt compelled to both click "dislike" and leave a negative comment.

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

The Ultimate TEAM UP - Emma and Malala!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaylB3tYJs

[Stella Star 69]

I've been a feminist ever since i was young, i remember getting suspended from school when i was only 9 because i attacked a boy who told me i couldn't play soccer with the boys because i was a girl. Bit him, pushed him into the dirt and kicked him in the gut. After that every time i looked at the kid he ran 0:-)

[Zyrael 1,471]

I'm for the equal rights of women as I am for the equal rights of all people, and the better portrayal of women in the media and hollywood.

[IDoNotSpeakEnglish 89]

I've been a feminist ever since i was young, i remember getting suspended from school when i was only 9 because i attacked a boy who told me i couldn't play soccer with the boys because i was a girl. Bit him, pushed him into the dirt and kicked him in the gut. After that every time i looked at the kid he ran 0:-)

 

I'm for the equal rights of women as I am for the equal rights of all people, and the better portrayal of women in the media and hollywood.

 

  I'm happy to see new posts in this club! These are the first of 2016. It seems both Stella Star and Zyrael joined the Forums this month; so be welcome! =) Also, I don't mean speak for others, but be welcome to the club; I hope to see more of you two here; feel free to simply express your views, bring discussions favorable to feminism or anything important to the topic when you feel like it. =) Thank you. =)

[Shawn Parks 1,798]

I just started a MeetUp group for feminists in my area who want to get together to share knowledge, expertise, and support.