Does Celestia have malevolent motivations?

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

imagine amount of ridiculousness when dark coloured pony with moon on its flank raises the sun

 

I dunno, sounds pretty badass to me.  But seriously, excellent points.

 

WTF?! Celestia being evil? No, no I don't think so... She only banished her sister to the moon, this being a very tough decision to make and still she did it for the sake of Equestria, because she has no other choice. Princess Luna is corrupted hence she did that. And another thing, she made Twilight the princess of friendship cause she deserved it. She proved herself worthy enough for that spot.

 

Bottom line: all her decisions are good and well thought of before she executes them. There are no strings attached and there is no conspiracy behind it. 

 

PS: It's a frigging cartoon. All you can do is make up and imagine things that aren't shown and told in the show. 

 

PPS: I'm not really a Celestia fan but I felt the right to defend her. 

 

And here's a parody video I made about her and her apprentice: 

 

+1 for the rap battle parody.  Commendable clips.

[Snivinerior 79]

I dunno, sounds pretty badass to me.  But seriously, excellent points.

 

 

+1 for the rap battle parody.  Commendable clips.

hehe, thanks a lot. It was really fun to make it. 

[CheeryFox 23,823]

Naw, see...she's not evil. Princess Celestia is just a co-ruler with more than 99 problems. But overall, she is a sweetheart. ; )

[Malinter 3,064]

Celestia is over 1000 years old, if she wanted to be evil she could have just walked away and let Equestria fall into chaos.

 

Keeping a nation intact isn't easy, Twilight has struggled to keep her friends together in the past and that is just 5 ponies. try keeping tens of thousands united.

 

Celestia has had to sacrafice alot to be who she is. I'm sure you'll be leaping to label Twilight if she had to seal one of her friends forever to save the world.

 

Being a good leader is hard, being one for near 2000 years and not crumbing to insanity is about as strong a soul as you can get in a ruler.

 

She is not evil, because if she was. You'd already be dead. XD

Edited December 31, 2014 by Snow Pony Malinter

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Celestia was never one of main characters of the show. In MLP she is a godess, now imagine turning catholic God into evil one. Sounds pretty stupid, hm? And it is exactly what it would be like if You turned Celestia evil. 

 

Besides let's use it - Celestia becomes evil. Twilight defeats her and Celestia is gone. Who will take care of sun then? Luna? But reason for her turning evil was related to that. First- Luna might stand with her sister and turn evil too. Then we have only Twilight and Cadance who already has her kingdom. Twilight can't rule kingdom. In the end we have anarchy and nobody to guide her on her new way. 

 

And if Luna turns against Celestia in this very case - she probably will replace Celestia and then she can easily turn evil again. We lose Luna and we go to anarchy point. If she won't - imagine amount of ridiculousness when dark coloured pony with moon on its flank raises the sun. 

 

 

And on top of all - like I said - Celestia was never a big part of show. She works like background. First she was teaching Twilight, now her job is to keep kingdom together. Now, what do You want to watch - episode of Celestia doing boring paperwork or meeting boring ponies with loads of documents in her overly polished palace or Twilight who actually has problems to which we can relate a lot easier? This show is about mane 6, not Princess Celestia, even in first episode she never had leading role. With that logic we can as well turn for example Coco Pommel into villain, because she has no role for show after episode with her. And same with lots of other ponies. 

 

Regardless of what sense it doesn't make for Celestia to suddenly become evil, I'm really getting tired of seeing her fumble around so incompetently to the point where I wonder who the hell is still allowing her to rule the country. 

 

It began in A Canterlot Wedding with her being unable to detect the threat right under her nose, and then failing to defeat Chrysalis with raw power in the famous moment that showed us that Celestia was not the goddess that we all thought she was up to that point. And, of course, it has culminated to Twilight's Kingdom where Celestia is portrayed as unspeakably incompetent, making decisions that managed to do absolutely nothing but exacerbate the situation and make Twilight's life that much harder. 

 

It almost seems like either McCarthy seriously has something against Celestia, or she just enjoys knocking her down several pegs so that Twilight can look better by comparison and be the hero that she can never be anymore. 

 

I just think that I'd honestly rather see Celestia become a villain than see her once again fail to do anything worthwhile to assist in defeating the next baddie. 

 

Also, even if the whole "Celestia is too busy ruling the kingdom to make an appearance" thing were the case, why couldn't she at least make some kind of cameo in the meantime, like in Feeling Pinkie Keen and It's About Time? Not sure, but what I do know is that Celestia went 21 full episodes without making an appearance (her longest-lasting absence ever) and that's just a testament to how worthless she is to the show now. 

 

I can honestly say that when the title of the season 4 finale was finally revealed, I honestly thought that it would be the end of Celestia's rule. I was beginning to think that the reason for her long absence was because of the writers trying to soften us up to the idea of the show going on without her (Sort of like: "Get used to not seeing Celestia anymore, because after this season, she's gone for good."). But that was not the case, and Celestia is still around, though I'm not exactly sure why. 

 

Hell, McCarthy even found a way to exclude her from Rainbow Rocks by having the portal already be in Twilight's castle for some unexplained reason and by having the message that Sunset Shimmer sent to her being delivered to Twilight at that exact same moment. 

[Pastel 7,630]

Celestia is far from being flawless since she has made a few mistakes in the past, but that doesn't make her evil.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

I don't think Celestia is evil at all. A bit of a troll? You could say so. But I think the way she is handling events suggests that she was setting Twilight up for greatness. She was sending Twilight and friends to fight the battles she no longer could, no matter how ridiculous the plot device she used was (like the "test" in "The Crystal Empire", or the power transfer in "Twilight's Kingdom").

 

I think Celestia might even be setting Twilight and the Mane 6 up to be some sort of successor to her and Luna. I've heard the theory before that Celestia and Luna may end up "moving on" (if you get what I'm hinting at) in the series finale and leave the Mane 6 as their successors.

 

Really, Celestia seems to have everything planned out. Even if her plans are ridiculous, there's probably a sense of hidden genius to them we don't know about. I see her making the decisions that will ultimately safeguard Equestria's future in the end. It's just a matter of time.

[ManaMinori 4,146]

Not sure if satire or serious...

oh I'm 100% serious. And I'm surprised at just how many people have posted here and not seen it in Celestia, herself; exactly how she manipulates other ponies to her agenda in order to keep the populace happy and friendshippy and use the love and friendship powers for the sole purpose of feuling the most destructive and effective weapon against threats- the Elements. She adopted Cadance, made her a princess, and set her up in the Crystal Empire, knowing Cadance is the princess of LOVE, and the Crystal heart is there to send good love vibes across all of Equestria (likely only amplified by Cadance, herself), and she did the same with Twilight, the element/ princess of Friendship, and now has her going out across the country to teach good friendship tidings to all other ponies, to keep the population in high spirits and friends with each other, and working according to her plan. All for the rainbow weapon, AND WHILE PEOPLE ARE POINTING OUT HOW GOOD AND KIND AND MOTHERLY AND SHIT CELESTIA IS- of bucking course SHE HAS TO BE, AS AN EXAMPLE TO HER SUBJECTS! TREATING THEM ALL KINDLY AND SHIT, WHILE USING THEIR GOOD FRIENDSHIPPY LOVE VIBES TO FUEL THE ULTIMATE, UNOPPOSED WEAPON, while nopony is any the wiser. Celestia's got everyone playing right into her hoof.

[Noei 718]

Well, if you see it that way , is your choice.

 

Everyone has the right to have their own views. -_-

Edited December 31, 2014 by Regulus is Great
line item edit.

[Castle Bleck 19,390]

My ultimate reaction to every "Celestia is evil" rant ever:

 

[Jeric 46,867]

The thread's title was modified to better work with our SEO strategy as we have no less than six threads regarding various aspects of this line of thinking. 

 

No, Celestia's motivations are not malevolent. She is a benign, if not perfect, leader. I actually look forward to the episode where Twilight may be challenged to tell her mentor that she disagrees. As far as manipulator? In a positive way, yes she is. The word manipulate is too often miscategorized as exclusively negative word. That would be wrong. Parents manipulate their children over the course of their upbringing through correction and coaching. There is nothing inherently wrong with the word. We know that Celestia planned early on in Season 3 to send Twilight Starswirl's incomplete spell. Looks as if she had a some hoof in manipulating the situation.

 

Good for her. I hate to see lazy rulers.

 

---

 

These negative threads are batting zero here lately. They really are. Administrators, myself, and others have had to make some tweaks to this thread as is - and it isn't that old. It's really not hard to refrain from being aggressive or edgy for the sake of a reaction. Just take a deep breath and (as the FAQ says) don't be a prick. 

[Countess Noodle 607]

Wow. Just wow. If this wasn't MLPF I would tell you what for. The thing is just by the way you're typing even if Lauren Faust or Hasbro would come right out and say "Celestia is not evil nor will she ever be" you would still think there is some sort of conspiracy going on. That's how deep you're in sadly.

 

Speculations and theorizing is nice, but you're riding a dying bandwagon and I suggest you jump off before you crash and burn. I would say more, but everyone else pretty much took the words right out of my brain.

Edited December 31, 2014 by NoodleBrony

[catnet 9,359]

The bold text is my response...

oh I'm 100% serious.

Oh...

 

And I'm surprised at just how many people have posted here and not seen it in Celestia, herself;

Many people here are seeing Celestia as Celestia is- your ideas are fine for a headcanon, but dreadfully inconvenient to hold as Gospel truth. 

 

exactly how she manipulates other ponies to her agenda in order to keep the populace happy and friendshippy

If the population was sad and friendship didn't exist, the world would be chaos. What she has done and continues to do isn't a matter of morality; it's an issue of survival.

 

and use the love and friendship powers 

She's been around for over a thousand years- if she had any evil intent, she could have gone through with it long ago. When she imprisoned Nightmare Moon, she was aware of what damage her sister could do to the world, and if it was enough to justify imprisonment in the moon for 1000 years, then surely Celestia's own powers have been enough to enable her to do what she wished with the world at any time. Nobody has that much patience when it comes to evil plans, and besides, centuries of witnessing the compassion and friendship of others would most likely have touched upon her and influenced her, wouldn't you think? 

 

for the sole purpose of

Well, everypony else here seems to have a different interpretation to your own, but if you'd like to think our ideas based on what we've seen are delusional and convoluted nonsense, then go ahead.

 

She adopted Cadance, made her a princess, and set her up in the Crystal Empire, knowing Cadance is the princess of LOVE, and the Crystal heart is there to send good love vibes across all of Equestria (likely only amplified by Cadance, herself), and she did the same with Twilight, the element/ princess of Friendship, and now has her going out across the country to teach good friendship tidings to all other ponies

Well, of course she would do that- why wouldn't she? Are you saying that she would be innocent here if she left her subjects to roll around in misery without love and friendship? If she hadn't done this, she would be guilty of incompetence. If she did (which she has) then she would be doing her job. It feels to me like you'd consider her suspicious whatever decision she makes... 

 

to keep the population in high spirits and friends with each other, and working according to her plan.

Blimey, do you apply this sort of logic to everyone that tries to help others? I'm a skeptic myself, but your reasoning makes it sound as if you'd pick out some malevolent plot from someone offering you a tissue. Whatever she is like, her deeds have undoubtedly been good for her kingdom and its population... you shouldn't be looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

All for the rainbow weapon

What rainbow weapon.  

 

AND WHILE PEOPLE ARE POINTING OUT HOW GOOD AND KIND AND MOTHERLY AND SHIT CELESTIA IS- of bucking course SHE HAS TO BE, AS AN EXAMPLE TO HER SUBJECTS!

Just because someone of a certain status is expected to demonstrate some certain traits, doesn't mean it is forced or done for an ultimate good. Maybe, just maybe, Celestia is a good pony by nature, and the reason for her behaviour and way of living is simply that it is the way she is. 

 

I don't even know what to say about the rest of this argument... no offense.

 

[Imperator Knoedel 58]

I for one still think OP is just messing with us. This is an obvious spoof of conspiracy nuts and Celestia haters alike.

[temmie 117]

 

This is clearly the face of pure evil /sarcasm

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

AND WHILE PEOPLE ARE POINTING OUT HOW GOOD AND KIND AND MOTHERLY AND SHIT CELESTIA IS- of bucking course SHE HAS TO BE, AS AN EXAMPLE TO HER SUBJECTS! TREATING THEM ALL KINDLY AND SHIT, WHILE USING THEIR GOOD FRIENDSHIPPY LOVE VIBES TO FUEL THE ULTIMATE, UNOPPOSED WEAPON

 

"Be calm in arguing; for fierceness makes error a fault, and truth discourtesy" - George Herbert

 

 

 

@Everyone_who_happens_to_take_offense_at_this_topic

 

"Do not waste time arguing with people whose opinions you do not respect" - Plato's Pony

 

 

Seriously, people.  If you see something on the internet that offends you, either:

 

 

1. Click out of the page

 

2. Ignore it 

 

3.   

[Cleverclover 1,526]

She is a benign, if not perfect, leader. 

 

She's definitely far from perfect, considering how she lacks any ability whatsoever to deal with threats, and Equestria would have been taken over several times over by now were it not for the mane six.

 

I initially thought quite highly of Celestia when I first started watching the show, but seeing her constantly display such astounding levels of incompetence has really killed her for me, and after Twilight's Kingdom, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Equestria needs a new ruler. I'm guessing that McCarthy must enjoy driving her so deeply into the ground, because it only ever seems to happen in the episodes that she writes.   

 

I'm just suggesting that if all the writers can manage to do with Celestia at this point is knock her down lower and lower, then maybe her becoming a villain wouldn't be so bad. 

[ThatOneComrade 1,091]

Well you can just deal with it and bow to your benevolent "tyrant." You know why the ponies love Celestia? Because she's nice. She's a nice pony who had to make tough decisions, but despite what pain it may bring her, she always put her subjects' needs over her own. That-- unlike this topic and all those like it-- deserves respect.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

@@Cleverclover, 

Actually I feel it has nothing to do with incompetence, let me explain by going over the major threats:

 

* Celestia and Luna face Discord, but can only defeat him with the Elements of Harmony after which likely help the ponies of Equestria get past the draconicus' tyrannical and terrible rule of the land. A solid victory.
* Celestia and Luna face King Sombra, though whether or not the Elements of Harmony is used is not know, but while they defeat the dark unicorn they cannot stop him from placing a curse on the Crystal Empire and having it disappear completely. A victory and defeat

* Once Luna was corrupted and taken over by the darkness that fed on her jealousy and anger, transforming into Nightmare Moon and Celestia was forced to use the Elements of Harmony against her to protect her subjects and all of Equestria. Putting them before her own personal desires and happiness. A bitter victory indeed. ((Lauren Faust own words and the comics)).
* With such a lose, Celestia would then rule Equestria for 1000 years by herself, raising the sun and moon. Protecting the land, guiding and teaching her subjects. Seeking for her subjects to grow and become all they can... this in my eyes is a very competent ruler. A true sign of strength it is that in the face of such heartache, guilt, and sorrow is a ruler can put aside their own feelings for their subjects.

 

* With Nightmare Moon and Discord there was no way for her to stop these threats by herself, since she had lost her connection with the Elements of Harmony and was no longer able to use the power they possessed. As such, Celestia had to rely on others, perhaps planning for her sisters return and putting together all the pieces that would allow her dear sister to return to her. Picking Twilight as her keystone, even possibly bringing together the five mares that would help her student on the path of discovering the Elements of Harmony and defeating Nightmare Moon... releasing her sister from the dark nightmare that controlled her. While she it can be offered was banished to the sun, locked away by Nightmare Moon once she got herself out from inside the moon.

 

* Discord, Celestia didn't even have a hope without the Elements of Harmony thus had no choice but to rely on her student Twilight and her friends. She would have no other choice but to sit back and let the Mane Six do their thing. Yet she would not just leave her dear student without help, suspecting she may be broken by Discord and offering the friendship letters to remind her why her friends are so important to her.

 

* On Queen Chrysalis... well perhaps that two parter could have been written more soundly, though I feel it is not completely unreasonable that Celestia would deceived along with everyone else. Also, as I have argued elsewhere, her reaction alone with the others I feel was justified in calling Twilight out on her behavior given what was known at the time. Once the truth was revealed and the changeling queen unmasked, Celestia was the first to step forward to fight the threat before her. It is not incompetence but the changelings' own biology that led to her defeat, as Queen Chrysalis has been feeding who knows how long on Shining Armour's love and thus became powerful. In the end not even the Elements of Harmony was the answer to this threat, nor was it the Mane Six that saved the day, but the power of two ponies' love for each other.

 

* One the return of King Sombra and the Crystal Empire... yes Celestia took a risk and made the tough decision to not allow her or her sister to go and face this new villain, to trust and rely on her student to do the right thing. To rely on another instead of involving herself and Luna into what was perhaps no longer their fight. I would argue that there involvement would have not made things any better, perhaps even make things worse as how would it look to the crystal ponies if the royal sisters involved themselves in their return? King Sombra in all his brilliant planning, yes I feel this is shown very well, would have likely had an answer to the princesses if they involved themselves as really... Twilight got lucky, as in very lucky.

 

* On them getting captured by the vines? Well this was something put together by Discord, and he has already proven he can take on the royal sisters and just about anyone else without them using the Elements of Harmony... or draining him after having taken the magic of every pony in Equestria counting all four alicorns. Though really I still question how Tirak was able to do such, as well as Discord reform in general.

---------------------------

 

 

Bottem line, or for those who tl:dr this... I do not see Princess Celestia as incompetent, she has just had threats beyond her power to stop come knocking on Equestria's door or perhaps her time as a hero has pasted and that the banner needs to be past to others. One thousand years of taking care of things herself I feel more then proved her worth and competence as a ruler and leader, even if she often takes a more hooves off approach to helping her subjects or uses other to offer direct aid. Also, any complaint you can level on Celestia you can level on Luna as well. If the sister with a 1000 years more experience cannot handle a threat I say that neither can the sister that had turned evil and banished inside the moon for a 1000 years. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by EquestrianScholar

[Celli 4,341]

@@EquestrianScholar, 

This. I would also point out that Celestia has been through a lot, and ruling for 1000 by yourself, not to mention what she and Luna faced would make her exhausted and desperate for someone to relieve her. AKA Twilight. I think Nightmare Muffin is just deliberately ignoring the obvious because they have a bias against Celestia, and thus make ridiculous claims about her.

[Plato's Pony 455]

@@EquestrianScholar

 

I couldn't help but admire your argument.  I just feel like adding in some of my replies to your various points.

My responses are in bold. 

@@Cleverclover, 

Actually I feel it has nothing to do with incompetence, let me explain by going over the major threats:

 

* Celestia and Luna face Discord, but can only defeat him with the Elements of Harmony after which likely help the ponies of Equestria get past the draconicus' tyrannical and terrible rule of the land. A solid victory.

 

* Celestia and Luna face King Sombra, though whether or not the Elements of Harmony is used is not know, but while they defeat the dark unicorn they cannot stop him from placing a curse on the Crystal Empire and having it disappear completely. A victory and defeat

 

* Once Luna was corrupted and taken over by the darkness that fed on her jealousy and anger, transforming into Nightmare Moon and Celestia was forced to use the Elements of Harmony against her to protect her subjects and all of Equestria. Putting them before her own personal desires and happiness. A bitter victory indeed. ((Lauren Faust own words and the comics)).

 

This is a very interesting topic and allows the viewers to gain insight into exactly what kind of character Celestia is.  On the night of Luna's transformation, Celestia either had the choice to attempt to reconcile with her sister and not banish her to the moon, but risk a mass extinction, or lose her sister, but save her subjects.  Once Luna attempted to kill her, she had no choice but to take the latter and banish her beloved sister.  Celestia, obviously, did care about her sister which can be inferred from the teardrop she shed right before the firing of the Elements of Harmony.

* With such a lose, Celestia would then rule Equestria for 1000 years by herself, raising the sun and moon. Protecting the land, guiding and teaching her subjects. Seeking for her subjects to grow and become all they can... this in my eyes is a very competent ruler. A true sign of strength it is that in the face of such heartache, guilt, and sorrow is a ruler can put aside their own feelings for their subjects.

 

Also, it amazes me how someone can rule an entire empire themselves for a thousand years without losing sanity.  An amazing performance of mental strength on Celestia's part.

 

* With Nightmare Moon and Discord there was no way for her to stop these threats by herself, since she had lost her connection with the Elements of Harmony and was no longer able to use the power they possessed. As such, Celestia had to rely on others, perhaps planning for her sisters return and putting together all the pieces that would allow her dear sister to return to her. Picking Twilight as her keystone, even possibly bringing together the five mares that would help her student on the path of discovering the Elements of Harmony and defeating Nightmare Moon... releasing her sister from the dark nightmare that controlled her. While she it can be offered was banished to the sun, locked away by Nightmare Moon once she got herself out from inside the moon.

 

This event was just pure crazy, in my opinion.  To count on Twilight and her friends to somehow find the Elements of Harmony, learn how to use them, AND reform Princess Luna is just...wow.  Before Luna's reformation, the only known result of firing the Elements of Harmony was encasing their target in stone (forgive me if my knowledge is incorrect), therefore Celestia couldn't have known the Elements of Harmony could bring her sister back.  If she had known, she would've done that the first time, when her sister first fell to the forces of evil.  Nonetheless, everything worked out, Celestia got her sister back and Twilight found the Elements of Harmony.  By the way, when did Celestia lose her connection with the Elements of Harmony?  I always assumed she put them away and forgot about them after the incident with her sister.

 

* Discord, Celestia didn't even have a hope without the Elements of Harmony thus had no choice but to rely on her student Twilight and her friends. She would have no other choice but to sit back and let the Mane Six do their thing. Yet she would not just leave her dear student without help, suspecting she may be broken by Discord and offering the friendship letters to remind her why her friends are so important to her.

 

I've always wondered, where was Celestia anyway?  Perhaps Discord did something with her, that's my presumption.

 

* On Queen Chrysalis... well perhaps that two parter could have been written more soundly, though I feel it is not completely unreasonable that Celestia would deceived along with everyone else. Also, as I have argued elsewhere, her reaction alone with the others I feel was justified in calling Twilight out on her behavior given what was known at the time. Once the truth was revealed and the changeling queen unmasked, Celestia was the first to step forward to fight the threat before her. It is not incompetence but the changelings' own biology that led to her defeat, as Queen Chrysalis has been feeding who knows how long on Shining Armour's love and thus became powerful. In the end not even the Elements of Harmony was the answer to this threat, nor was it the Mane Six that saved the day, but the power of two ponies' love for each other.

 

The writers were very creative in illustrating the power of love, which was one of the themes for this two-parter.  The power of love between two ponies is greater than that of one of the most powerful rulers in all of Equestria.

 

* One the return of King Sombra and the Crystal Empire... yes Celestia took a risk and made the tough decision to not allow her or her sister to go and face this new villain, to trust and rely on her student to do the right thing. To rely on another instead of involving herself and Luna into what was perhaps no longer their fight. I would argue that there involvement would have not made things any better, perhaps even make things worse as how would it look to the crystal ponies if the royal sisters involved themselves in their return? King Sombra in all his brilliant planning, yes I feel this is shown very well, would have likely had an answer to the princesses if they involved themselves as really... Twilight got lucky, as in very lucky.

 

I believe this was, indeed, a VERY risky decision on Celestia's part, putting all her trust into her young apprentice.  However, like always, everything worked out.  This episode acted as the bridge between Twilight's normal life and her crowning.

 

* On them getting captured by the vines? Well this was something put together by Discord, and he has already proven he can take on the royal sisters and just about anyone else without them using the Elements of Harmony... or draining him after having taken the magic of every pony in Equestria counting all four alicorns. Though really I still question how Tirak was able to do such, as well as Discord reform in general.

 

Sorry, this statement is just really unclear to me; but I do see what you're getting at.

---------------------------

 

 

Bottem line, or for those who this tl:dr... I do not see Princess Celestia as incompetent, she has just had threats beyond her power to stop come knocking on Equestria's door or perhaps her time as a hero has pasted and that the banner needs to be past to others. One thousand years of taking care of things herself I feel more then proved her worth and competence as a ruler and leader, even if she often takes a more hooves off approach to helping her subjects or uses other to offer direct aid. Also, any complaint you can level on Celestia you can level on Luna as well. If the sister with a 1000 years more experience cannot handle a threat I say that neither can the sister that had turned evil and banished inside the moon for a 1000 years. 

 

[The Crimson Cross 7,532]

Pfft! Of course she does! That's why it's a show about friendship and harmony!

 

Celestia is the meanest cruellest mare ever. I mean just look at that evil grin of hers! Look how much happiness there is in Equestria at the moment!

 

 

Alright. So it seems a little dull and gloomy. But that's just because everyone is anxious for the coming of season 5! And besides! Celestia isn't the only one to blame for this misery! Luna is in charge of the land pretty much as an equal.

If only we could elect Discord as the dictator. Then the land would know true peace and harmony once more. 

 

 

And remember folks, malevolent Celestia should only be used for fun and jokes. In no way does this actually reflect what happens in the show. 

 

 

[Malinter 3,064]

This event was just pure crazy, in my opinion.  To count on Twilight and her friends to somehow find the Elements of Harmony, learn how to use them, AND reform Princess Luna is just...wow.  Before Luna's reformation, the only known result of firing the Elements of Harmony was encasing their target in stone (forgive me if my knowledge is incorrect), therefore Celestia couldn't have known the Elements of Harmony could bring her sister back.  If she had known, she would've done that the first time, when her sister first fell to the forces of evil.  Nonetheless, everything worked out, Celestia got her sister back and Twilight found the Elements of Harmony.  By the way, when did Celestia lose her connection with the Elements of Harmony?  I always assumed she put them away and forgot about them after the incident with her sister.

 

I believe its because the EoH doesn't turn Ponies into stone. They turned Sombra to shadow and sealed him into the ground. NMM already possesses the ability to become shadows so Celestia had to place an even stronger seal and place her in the moon. Also it does seem the EoH effects don't last long as NMM, Discord and possibly Sombra manage to return after a sufficent amount of time has past. 

 

As to why the EoH purified NMM, They appear to only work effectively if there bearers are synced. Celestia needs Luna to use the EoH at maximium strength so when she used them on NMM they were only using 50% of there full power and after that i imagine it plunged to zero once Luna was sealed away completely so she could never use them again, hence Twilight and Co had to find them on their own both so that Twilight would acknowledge them as friends and the EoH would make them bearers with her.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Snow Pony Malinter

[Plato's Pony 455]

 

 

As to why the EoH purified NMM, They appear to only work effectively if there bearers are synced. Celestia needs Luna to use the EoH at maximium strength so when she used them on NMM they were only using 50% of there full power and after that i imagine it plunged to zero once Luna was sealed away completely so she could never use them again, hence Twilight and Co had to find them on their own both so that Twilight would acknowledge them as friends and the EoH would make them bearers with her.

 

(Note: I refer to the Elements of Harmony as one, singular entity)

 

So, your theory is that the Elements of Harmony works like a machine that requires keys to run, the "keys" being the bearers of the Elements.  In order for the "machine" to work, it requires all of its "keys" (in this case, Celestia and Luna).  Since Luna was, more or less, knocked out of existence, the Elements of Harmony could no longer work since one of its "keys" was missing.  Which is why the Elements of Harmony reset itself to require new bearers (the Mane Six).

 

Am I, more or less, correct?

[Cleverclover 1,526]

@@EquestrianScholar,

 

 There's a reason I listed A Canterlot Wedding as the starting point for Celestia's rise to incompetence and not The Return of Harmony. That's because Celestia still managed to make herself useful during the fight with Discord by sending back Twilight's friendship letters, thus allowing her to regain her senses, which ultimately led to his defeat. She was not incapacitated (like in A Canterlot Wedding/Princess Twilight Sparkle), she was not just sitting back and letting Twilight deal with it on her own (like in The Crystal Empire), and she was not making utterly asinine decisions which only helped to make the situation worse (like in Twilight's Kingdom). 

 

What really gets me about The Crystal Empire is not just the fact that Celestia decided to put the burden all on the shoulders of her student without hesitation, it was the fact that she gave Twilight a complete and utter bullshit requirement for passing the "test"  without even bothering to establish how much help she was allowed to accept from her friends. This managed to do absolutely nothing​ but hinder Twilight, put even more pressure on her, and nearly make her fail the test. So yes, it's no question that Twilight got lucky, because had Spike not come with her to look for the heart, the empire would have most certainly been back in Sombra's hooves now. And honestly, who would have really been the one to blame for that, considering that the only reason Twilight did not initially want Spike to come with her was because of that stupid requirement that Celestia saw fit to pin on her? 

 

I guess there really isn't much to be said in defense of her actions in Twilight's Kingdom, since that was just the mound of junk that didn't just break the camel's back---it snapped it in two.

 

"I know what to do! Let's have Discord be the one to deal with Tirek!"  Oops...  

 

"I've got it! Let's transfer all of our power to Twilight and hope that Tirek never finds out about the existence of a fourth alicorn, even though Discord would have most certainly had plenty of opportunity to tell him about it!"  Oh dear....

 

"Don't tell your friends about all your new power, Twilight. Because they most surely will not be able to assist you in any way. And besides, they'll probably get captured if you tell them."  Oh, darn it! 

 

*sigh...* (I hate Twilight's Kingdom...) 

 

Anyway, ever since McCarthy has started writing the two-parters, Celestia has just fallen further and further from graces. Maybe it's because she just enjoys stripping her of anything that once made her an excellent ruler, or perhaps it's just because she believes that Celestia needs to be smacked down a few pegs so that the mane six can be the ones to save the day without any of her assistance. I honestly don't know. But I am really tired of it at this point, particularly since, as I mentioned before, her role in the show has almost entirely diminished, and so now it seems like she only exists to be knocked down even further anytime there's a baddie that needs to be dealt with. 

 

It's probably just time for her to just pass the torch before it can happen again. Would anything be inherently wrong with Twilight becoming the new ruler of Equestria at the start of season 5? I honestly don't think so. 

 

Also, I don't apply the same complaints to Luna as well simply because I don't view her has having the same burden of protecting the citizens of Equestria since she isn't the primary ruler. And besides, she actually still does have a role in the show: dream-sitting the CMC. It's not much, but it's something, and it's far more than what Celestia has, that's for damn sure. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by Cleverclover