Does Celestia have malevolent motivations?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

In the words of the famous Phantom Horn- “The story of Hearth's Warming Eve is nothing but a massive conspiracy perpetuated by our government to keep the population docile.”

 

And frankly.....I believe him. I never really liked Celestia, and her design (with her obvious Horus/ eye of Illuminati all-seeing eye) isn't the only reason why. Many times throughout the series it seems like she had a hoof in the re-writing/ telling and manipulation of history. Hearth's Warming Eve being just one of those instances.

 

In the HWE pageant, the story tells of past ponies' land getting “allegedly” frozen over, thanks to blizzards getting caused by “Wendigos.” Each tribe independently decided that the best thing to do is send out their leaders for that respective tribe, out into the blizzard, to find new land for their tribes ( likely each of these tribes were being mind controlled by Celestia, to have come to that decision; Celestia assuming that all the while those Earth Pony, Unicorn, and pegasus leaders of the tribes, would freeze to death out there in the cold, taking the 'wendigos' with them, so long as the leaders of the tribes kept their hatred and malice towards one another, and while they were gone, they'd freeze to death, and then Celestia would step in and become the new ruler of the three tribes, who lacked their leaders) Wendigos were simply a story created to scare the ponies (if they weren't, then someone do explain where they were during Celestia and Luna's fight; during Sombra's reign up to his banishment, during Magical Mystery Cure, or Lesson Zero, or during Discord's reign....)

 

But why would Celestia lie, make up the story of Wendigos during HWE, the Fire of Friendship, the legend of Nightmare Moon, the EoH, the Crystal Heart, manipulating Twilight and Cadance on the path to alicorn-hood, and crowning one the princess of Love, and the other, the princess of Friendship, you ask? IllumiNeighty mind-control, peace-keeping methods. All of the above depend on the ponies being friends to work; to keep the ponies scared straight in order for the government to charge up its super magical rainbow machine gun off all the sweet ad warm fuzzies from everypony being all high off harmony and friendship.

 

Cadance even says- in the Equestria Girls Movie- that without Twilight's element, the other Elements of Harmony have NO POWER, and EQUESTRIA IS LEFT WITHOUT ONE OF ITS MOST IMPORTANT MEANS OF 'DEFENSE'.

 

This would explain why Celestia was so upset upon learning from Spike that Twilight – the very unicorn she had set on the path to becoming Princess of Friendship; the very unicorn who would continue to uphold the web of lies and stories and schemes that Celestia had created for the sole purpose of maintaining friendship in the ponies to power the country's most dangerous superweapon, the EoH, was acting to DISRUPT the plan and creating disharmony amongst ponies, in her efforts to find a solution to a problem that would please her mentor, who was awaiting her friendship report, rather than fostering friendships as Celestia- the master- had intended.

 

….....

….................

…........................................

 

Come to think of it, why was it revealed by Luna, that the mirror to the EQG world had- at one point- always been kept in the THRONE ROOM of Canterlot castle? Was Celestia planning on crossing over, once Twilight took up her position as alicorn leader, and she stepped down; taking with her the EoH that the Mane 6 no longer physically needed, and invading the human world to nuke the world and its hateful, angry, bitter human residents with the residual power of Equestria (or the magic that Twilight carried over into the human world, which fostered a new magic of friendship in the AU, to potentially power Equestria's EoH), so she could start her new reign over there? (AND For Luna to mention to Twilight- almost knowingly- that this other world wouldn't have the means to defend itself, if Twilight's single element out of the 5 other EoH was used on the other side. She must've known of Celestia's plans to bring over all 6 elements, at some point, and just how utterly devastating that would be- which is likely the real reason Celestia banished Luna to the moon for 1000 years- to prevent her sister from being a foil to her plan, while she set everything up)

 

No world is safe. Starswirl help us all.

[Moonlight 7,279]

if i hear one more "Celestia is evil" post

 

Edited December 31, 2014 by WheatleyCore

[~SadisticFluttershy~ 779]

No. No. No. and finally, NO.

 

I've read enough of these topics. Celestia isn't evil, and that's that bro.

 

Out of my POV(Not regarding this topic) is that, Celestia put Twilight and her friends through all those adventures because the fact that Twilight was Celestia's student and knew her destiny. Twilight clearly can take anything thrown at her (Minus Rainbow Rocks) and get the job done.

 

Trust me, Celestia knew what she was doing.

 

 

You can NEVER trust what anyone outside that claims to know these things.

Anything you hear outside can be a liar and can make these things up. In the end, it's a freaking cartoon bro.

Cartoons have made up story lines. 

Edited December 31, 2014 by ~SadisticFluttershy~

[Gone Airbourne 21,969]

TLDR 

 

 

 

Celestia is pure evil lets throw Spike and Luna in there while we are at it :V

[KokuraiNoSenshi 3,463]

As a Princess Luna fanatic, I would like to say right now that I do desperately wish people would cut this out. I love Celestia, and I love most of her incarnations (Trollestia, Molestia to name a couple) but Tyrant Celestia just does not work for me. If Tyrant Celestia was true in any way, shape, or form I sincerely think it would be much more obvious than these half backed rumors lead it to be. I think the only time that Tyrant Celestia ever seemed the slightest bit possible was in Twilight's paranoid dream about Flutters being exiled and jailed in the place she was exiled too, and that was Twilight! I'm sorry but the purple pon can be a bit dramatic at times, enough to rival her marshmallow-y companion Rarity. Now, I joke once or twice about this subject with some of my Celestia supporting friends but at the end of the day I take it with half a grain of salt! I think that a lot more people need to do as well, especially some of my Luna supporting brethren/sister...en.

[~SadisticFluttershy~ 779]

As a Princess Luna fanatic, I would like to say right now that I do desperately wish people would cut this out. I love Celestia, and I love most of her incarnations (Trollestia, Molestia to name a couple) but Tyrant Celestia just does not work for me. If Tyrant Celestia was true in any way, shape, or form I sincerely think it would be much more obvious than these half backed rumors lead it to be. I think the only time that Tyrant Celestia ever seemed the slightest bit possible was in Twilight's paranoid dream about Flutters being exiled and jailed in the place she was exiled too, and that was Twilight! I'm sorry but the purple pon can be a bit dramatic at times, enough to rival her marshmallow-y companion Rarity. Now, I joke once or twice about this subject with some of my Celestia supporting friends but at the end of the day I take it with half a grain of salt! I think that a lot more people need to do as well, especially some of my Luna supporting brethren/sister...en.

I'm a Princess Luna fan more than Celestia.

 

Also, RIP Molly!!!

I miss that tumblr blog soooooooooooooooo much!

 

Celestia would never cause harm to ANYPONY. She isn't that kind of pony.

There are many claims of why Celestia banished Luna to the moonah.

(This is only an addition to your response as well as my own. It's just to be more easy and simple with examples)

Luna turned evil because of hate and jealousy. We saw that in the Premiere of Season 4.

Celestia banished her because she turned evil and it was for her own good even though she regretted that decision for a thousand years but, it had to be done.

 

Oh and btw, Twilight is paranoid. She thought she was going back to Magic Kindergarten.... THAT was funny!

Edited December 31, 2014 by ~SadisticFluttershy~

[KokuraiNoSenshi 3,463]

Luna turned evil because of hate and jealousy. We saw that in the Premiere of Season 4.

Celestia banished her because she turned evil and it was for her own good even though she regretted that decision for a thousand years but, it had to be done.

Agreed, the flashback and their reunion is more than enough proof to show just how badly Celestia felt about that! I love Luna, she's a great character and whether she is "over-hyped" or not, I will always put her as best Princess, but even I can admit that she may have gone a bit overboard. Celestia just did what she felt best, and I don't fault her for her tough decisions, but I do praise her for her instant forgiveness. Instead of questioning Luna or waiting to see if she would do something wrong, Celestia jumped at the chance to have her sister back! That's sisterly love right there people, pure and utter forgiveness at the drop of a hat!

 

Oh and btw, Twilight is paranoid. She thought she was going back to Magic Kindergarten.... THAT was funny!

Yeah... Purple pon you are awesome but you need to read a book on Buddhism or something and learn to relax!

[DaReaper 1,943]

I'm just gonna say this, I think you put a lil too much effort into finding something that more then lolly isn't there. I personaly don't think that about celestial and looking fir symbols you can find symbolizm in anything if you look hard enough.

I'll give you this, you have organized your argument well and presented your evidence good but I personaly don't think celestial is evil and there was no prof she was alive during the time of the windgos. I could be wrong I didn't dig into the history of equestria too much

[Larkybird~ 734]

...ugh. Not this crap again. Listen. I'm fine with this being a headcanon. But for the love of God do not go around acting like it's totally canon. There's just way too much disproving every single point you made. I wish the fandom would just knock this off. It's getting tiresome as hell. Every one of the arguments post basically the same points just worded differently. Yours is the most detailed, but the point still stands. You're looking way too deep into it. Everything else everyones said is much closer a and solid enough to be classified as canon. If you wanna headcanon Celestia as evil, fine. Just don't make it seem like you believe it to be 100% canon. You're just asking for trouble like that.

[sweetolebob18 724]

Somebody once said "The average girl of 7 has more secrets than the average old man of 70 & the average maid of 17 has more secrets than the average Head of State"  But, as an ancient wizard Celestia has more than most & I've often thought Celestia knows more than she is telling.  From the pilot onward, she is the puppet master pulling the strings. (Fluttershy's behavior is so out of character she has to be under a spell)  Celestia is "The man behind the curtain" in the Wizard of Oz.  I agree, she manipulated Twilight into becoming an alicorn.

 

Where we part company is:  I don't think she had sinister motives.  I think she does these things for the good of EQ.  Sometimes a leader has to be ruthless.  There is a poll in "Trollestia" & the vast majority agrees, she is not sinister.  (That doesn't mean they are right)

Edited January 1, 2015 by sweetolebob18

[catnet 9,353]

Poor Celestia... she just wants to be loved... ;_;

Honestly not too sure if this thread was meant to be taken seriously ('charge up its super magical rainbow machine gun off all the sweet ad warm fuzzies from everypony being all high off harmony and friendship', huh?  :okiedokielokie: ).... I sincerely hope not. I'm not a huge Celestia fan myself, but I do feel these 'Celestia is the villain' theories are just rooting around in the mud for anything to use against her, when there's plenty of obvious moments where she demonstrates that she holds a conscience and cares about virtues like honesty. Yes, maybe it's possible she's planning on taking over the human world. Perhaps there are some machinations of hers that we have yet to grasp. But I don't believe it to be true, and I see no reason to either. Celestia isn't evil; she's mysterious. She's an old, old princess with power and a history that we don't know everything about, so we aren't meant to have all the answers about her motives and plans. Feel free to be open to the possibility that she is a conspirator after all, but you should probably be open to the possibility that the opposite is true, too.

 

 

Edit: Bird Rank, with no avatar? 

Edited December 31, 2014 by Edwardo_Brony

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

Celestia is Best Princess and a wonderful mare. That is all.

[The Shadow Stallion 127]

I think the fandom should be more worried about the real evil brewing in season 5.... the evil that will threaten equestria once more O.-

[Fractured 2,683]

Okay... let's say she is. Celestia is the big bad, the laughing genius who's responsible for everything that's happened in Equestria. She set up her sister to be banished to the moon, manipulated the elements, etc. We're just going to ignore the fact that she's been prepared to die for Equestria at least several times already, that she never takes the credit for anything, that doesn't revel in luxury, etc. and just focus on this. Right now, Celestia is a mustache twirling master manipulator.

 

Who cares? Literally everything she would have done in that time turned out for the best. Luna was sent to the moon, came back, and lost the anger and bitterness that used to be a part of her; she found who she was. Twilight found friendship for the first time in her life, discovered where she truly belonged, and earned the power to save the world. Spike found Twilight, and a much better home then he would have had otherwise. All the Mane Six found each other. Later, Sunset Shimmer finally found true happiness through Twilight. Cadence met the love of her life, and she's ruling over a kingdom. Equestria is safe, and not a single pony that we know has died yet. Everyone is (reasonably) happy.

 

This is "The Big Bad". This is the "evil" that she's committed. If people really want to take the long shot (literally, 360 on Celestia), and suggest that she's somehow pure evil... I am perfectly okay with that. She's the best "evil" i've ever seen.

[Plato's Pony 455]

In the words of the famous Phantom Horn- “The story of Hearth's Warming Eve is nothing but a massive conspiracy perpetuated by our government to keep the population docile.”

 

And frankly.....I believe him. I never really liked Celestia, and her design (with her obvious Horus/ eye of Illuminati all-seeing eye) isn't the only reason why. Many times throughout the series it seems like she had a hoof in the re-writing/ telling and manipulation of history. Hearth's Warming Eve being just one of those instances.

 

In the HWE pageant, the story tells of past ponies' land getting “allegedly” frozen over, thanks to blizzards getting caused by “Wendigos.” Each tribe independently decided that the best thing to do is send out their leaders for that respective tribe, out into the blizzard, to find new land for their tribes ( likely each of these tribes were being mind controlled by Celestia, to have come to that decision; Celestia assuming that all the while those Earth Pony, Unicorn, and pegasus leaders of the tribes, would freeze to death out there in the cold, taking the 'wendigos' with them, so long as the leaders of the tribes kept their hatred and malice towards one another, and while they were gone, they'd freeze to death, and then Celestia would step in and become the new ruler of the three tribes, who lacked their leaders) Wendigos were simply a story created to scare the ponies (if they weren't, then someone do explain where they were during Celestia and Luna's fight; during Sombra's reign up to his banishment, during Magical Mystery Cure, or Lesson Zero, or during Discord's reign....)

 

But why would Celestia lie, make up the story of Wendigos during HWE, the Fire of Friendship, the legend of Nightmare Moon, the EoH, the Crystal Heart, manipulating Twilight and Cadance on the path to alicorn-hood, and crowning one the princess of Love, and the other, the princess of Friendship, you ask? IllumiNeighty mind-control, peace-keeping methods. All of the above depend on the ponies being friends to work; to keep the ponies scared straight in order for the government to charge up its super magical rainbow machine gun off all the sweet ad warm fuzzies from everypony being all high off harmony and friendship.

 

Cadance even says- in the Equestria Girls Movie- that without Twilight's element, the other Elements of Harmony have NO POWER, and EQUESTRIA IS LEFT WITHOUT ONE OF ITS MOST IMPORTANT MEANS OF 'DEFENSE'.

 

This would explain why Celestia was so upset upon learning from Spike that Twilight – the very unicorn she had set on the path to becoming Princess of Friendship; the very unicorn who would continue to uphold the web of lies and stories and schemes that Celestia had created for the sole purpose of maintaining friendship in the ponies to power the country's most dangerous superweapon, the EoH, was acting to DISRUPT the plan and creating disharmony amongst ponies, in her efforts to find a solution to a problem that would please her mentor, who was awaiting her friendship report, rather than fostering friendships as Celestia- the master- had intended.

 

….....

….................

…........................................

 

Come to think of it, why was it revealed by Luna, that the mirror to the EQG world had- at one point- always been kept in the THRONE ROOM of Canterlot castle? Was Celestia planning on crossing over, once Twilight took up her position as alicorn leader, and she stepped down; taking with her the EoH that the Mane 6 no longer physically needed, and invading the human world to nuke the world and its hateful, angry, bitter human residents with the residual power of Equestria (or the magic that Twilight carried over into the human world, which fostered a new magic of friendship in the AU, to potentially power Equestria's EoH), so she could start her new reign over there? (AND For Luna to mention to Twilight- almost knowingly- that this other world wouldn't have the means to defend itself, if Twilight's single element out of the 5 other EoH was used on the other side. She must've known of Celestia's plans to bring over all 6 elements, at some point, and just how utterly devastating that would be- which is likely the real reason Celestia banished Luna to the moon for 1000 years- to prevent her sister from being a foil to her plan, while she set everything up)

 

No world is safe. Starswirl help us all.

 

 

I do admire your detective work and reasoning, but seriously, that title.  There's no need to draw angry attention from Celestia fans when stating your theory.

 

 

I, personally, am more of a Luna fan, but I have always admired Celestia's kind and motherly nature.  I remember making a thread similar to this one a little while ago, and after reading some very intellectual responses, it has come to my knowledge that Celestia turning out to be evil will create unrest in the audience itself.

 

Think about it, if the writers have spent all this time establishing Celestia as a very close mentor to apprentice, Twilight,  and an excellent ruler just to have her turn out to actually be evil all this time, it would result in a reaction equivalent to the death of a main character, even worse, in fact.  This technique is used widely in films, including Disney's Frozen (although, I predicted Hans to be evil from the start), but in a moral-teaching cartoon aimed for an audience of young children?  Please, this will just end up with a bunch of children having trust issues and a load of unhappy Celestia fans.

[Sir Hugsalot 8,621]

Why are some people so stubborn about making her evil? If she was evil why would she protect her world? Why would she forgive Luna and accept her back? Why wouldn't she punish Twilight when she learned nothing new of friendship in one episode? Why would she give more tickets to Twilight after Twilight said she can't go, because she does not have tickets for everyone? And list goes on.

 

Seriously, just stop, it is getting ridiculous, I only wait for the day when people start comparing her to Joseph Stalin for some stupid reason. 

 

 

Also explain to me - if she is evil why would kids, who watch the show be taught she is good, kind, loving and Twilight's mentor? Wouldn't it mean that show teaches kids that being evil is actually good? Seriously, You overanalyzed the show hard and I see no future for this thread as its name is just bad. 

[ShadOBabe 18,984]

"WHAT DIDST THOU JUST SAY ABOUT OUR SISTER!?"

 

[catnet 9,353]

...

Thinking about it now, I do believe this thread is the MLPForums version of 'click-bait'.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Edwardo_Brony

[Odyssey 5,713]

Even if we haven't seen all that much of Celestia, I don't really seeing this happening. I'll admit that I actually like alternate character interpretations, like Trollestia and Tyrant Celestia itself, as it fills in things of Celestia's personality that we've haven't seen yet. But even so we've already seen that Celly is a kind Princess, along with Luna. It wouldn't work in a show like MLP:FiM. Not to mention that I prefer it if alternate character interpretations are a fandom-only thing.

[King Sejong 858]

   Damning and condemning Celestia again I see, I have seen enough of these posts, the conspiracy theories are derived from a bias someone has for anyone in power, or perceived to be in control, but these theories do not replace the contemporary knowledge we do know about Princess Celestia. It has become a contemptible folly to compare Celestia to real life past dictators, like Hitler or Stalin, the crimes of those people are real and well known, we have not seen nor given any hints that Princess Celestia is a totalitarian, and even if she was, she is a fictional character, so we should not let in our real world whims in this fantasy realm. Princess Celestia welcomed back her sister Luna after she went berserk, yet Celestia is call evil, she took Twilight Sparkle as a personal student of magic, yet she is an manipulator, and Celestia had regrets and hard feelings for banishing Princess Luna, so she is an evil conspirator, fans, this is My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, not The Hunger Games nor Les Miserables, if you like stories like those, there is plenty of fan fiction to read, but if you wish to make that canon in the show, then remind yourself why are you here, for love of the show, the fandom, or the ponies themselves, if you are here to ponify a conspiracy to make Celestia into a contemporary villain, and overthrow them in a violent coup de tat, find it in your heart to put away that bias, and enjoy the show for what it is, a fantasy world with magical colourful ponies, where friendship is magic. 

[Imperator Knoedel 58]

Not sure if satire or serious...

[Cleverclover 1,525]

At this point, making Celestia a villain would be a somewhat logical move to me. 

 

This is mostly because Twilight's ascension has made her almost entirely worthless to the show (due to her not being Celestia's student anymore, thus the mentor role she that had from season 1 is pretty much gone). Keep in mind that in season 4 after Princess Twilight Sparkle, Celestia did not appear again until Equestria Games---a full 21 episodes later. And even then, it was just a cameo appearance more than anything. So yes, at this point, Celestia is just meandering around, no longer important enough to have a role in the show, but too important to get rid of unceremoniously. 

 

So honestly, what else could the writers do with her character? After Twilight's Kingdom, I am fully convinced that if season 5 began with Twilight being crowned as the new ruler of Equestria, everyone would be much better off for it. And no, she wouldn't need to undergo any training either, because it's not like Twilight ever fails anyway. 

 

Bottom line, either create a new role for Celestia, or just go ahead and make her the next villain. 

[Snivinerior 79]

WTF?! Celestia being evil? No, no I don't think so... She only banished her sister to the moon, this being a very tough decision to make and still she did it for the sake of Equestria, because she has no other choice. Princess Luna is corrupted hence she did that. And another thing, she made Twilight the princess of friendship cause she deserved it. She proved herself worthy enough for that spot.

 

Bottom line: all her decisions are good and well thought of before she executes them. There are no strings attached and there is no conspiracy behind it. 

 

PS: It's a frigging cartoon. All you can do is make up and imagine things that aren't shown and told in the show. 

 

PPS: I'm not really a Celestia fan but I felt the right to defend her. 

 

And here's a parody video I made about her and her apprentice: 

[Celli 4,332]

Oh, look, it's another one of THESE threads. Look, no offense, but your theories are complete bogus, ESPECIALLY the illuminati parts.  It's kind of ridiculous.

[Sir Hugsalot 8,621]

At this point, making Celestia a villain would be a somewhat logical move to me. 

 

This is mostly because Twilight's ascension has made her almost entirely worthless to the show (due to her not being Celestia's student anymore, thus the mentor role she that had from season 1 is pretty much gone). Keep in mind that in season 4 after Princess Twilight Sparkle, Celestia did not appear again until Equestria Games---a full 21 episodes later. And even then, it was just a cameo appearance more than anything. So yes, at this point, Celestia is just meandering around, no longer important enough to have a role in the show, but too important to get rid of unceremoniously. 

 

So honestly, what else could the writers do with her character? After Twilight's Kingdom, I am fully convinced that if season 5 began with Twilight being crowned as the new ruler of Equestria, everyone would be much better off for it. And no, she wouldn't need to undergo any training either, because it's not like Twilight ever fails anyway. 

 

Bottom line, either create a new role for Celestia, or just go ahead and make her the next villain. 

Celestia was never one of main characters of the show. In MLP she is a godess, now imagine turning catholic God into evil one. Sounds pretty stupid, hm? And it is exactly what it would be like if You turned Celestia evil. 

 

Besides let's use it - Celestia becomes evil. Twilight defeats her and Celestia is gone. Who will take care of sun then? Luna? But reason for her turning evil was related to that. First- Luna might stand with her sister and turn evil too. Then we have only Twilight and Cadance who already has her kingdom. Twilight can't rule kingdom. In the end we have anarchy and nobody to guide her on her new way. 

 

And if Luna turns against Celestia in this very case - she probably will replace Celestia and then she can easily turn evil again. We lose Luna and we go to anarchy point. If she won't - imagine amount of ridiculousness when dark coloured pony with moon on its flank raises the sun. 

 

 

And on top of all - like I said - Celestia was never a big part of show. She works like background. First she was teaching Twilight, now her job is to keep kingdom together. Now, what do You want to watch - episode of Celestia doing boring paperwork or meeting boring ponies with loads of documents in her overly polished palace or Twilight who actually has problems to which we can relate a lot easier? This show is about mane 6, not Princess Celestia, even in first episode she never had leading role. With that logic we can as well turn for example Coco Pommel into villain, because she has no role for show after episode with her. And same with lots of other ponies.