General Season 4 Discussion Thread

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Is there seriously just nowhere to discuss Season 4 beyond any one particular episode? Why does every thread have to be so specific? Let's use this thread to talk about Episodes from Season 4, how they relate to each other, the arcs, the characters, the events, compare it to other seasons, and just have nonspecific chat about the season as a whole!

[Arctofire 227]

Season 4 was good overall, I loved a lot of the episodes, such as: Pinkie Pride, Inspiration Manifestation, Maud Pie, Flight To the Finish, and loads others. I really liked the whole plot about the keys, and how the elements were put to the test and so forth, but I wasn't that fond of the Equestria Games. Firstly, because I thought the idea was really boring, and secondly because it didn't conclude into something epic, it was just filler. Whilst I loved a lot of the episodes, there were some that were really awful, as with any season, like: Somepony to Watch Over Me, Daring Don't, For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils, and Rainbow Falls. However, this season I felt had less bad episodes than any other, and that's really respectable.

 

The flavor of MLP seems to have changed slightly to be more proactive and experimental, in some episodes, this worked, in other's, it didn't. Power Ponies I actually really enjoyed, but Daring Don't ruined the whole fiction within fiction element and was so far fetched it was laughable. It really does make this season stand out, both the good and the bad.

 

As for the 2 parters, I liked them both, but I have more to say. I liked Princess Twilight Sparkle, but somehow, I was expecting more. I think this is because I feel like DHX likes to reward us for waiting with an epic 2 parter with a new villain and so forth, and I guess with this one, I was expecting a meal but I only got popcorn. That said though, I think it's a very well written episode, and seeing those flashbacks was really cool. Twilight's Kingdom was almost the opposite of the opening in many ways, but I did really like this one overall as well, although I didn't like the villain and I felt like they cared about the fight scene too much. However, Discord's arc was done EXTREMELY well, and I liked how it wrapped up the plot about the keys.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Arctofire

[Dulset Tarn 441]

I think Season 4 is by far the worst of the series. About half of the episodes wound up 5/10 or less, while topping out at 7.5 with only a few episodes. Woth the series' new focus on using violence and lasers to solve problems, the storytelling, morals, songs, and conflicts all took a major hit, even after the disappointing Season 3. The characters, and I mean ALL the characters, get at least one episode to drag them through the mud and make us question if we ever really liked them to begin with. All the mane six, Spike, the princesses, Discord, even Flim and Flam aren't spared this season's horrendous treatment of canon. The premiere was downright pointless and the finale was... well you saw it. With episodes like Bats!, Filli Vanilli, and even one of my favorites of the season Pinkie Pride, it's never been more evident that the writers have essentially stopped trying. They have their devoted followers, and they're never leaving, so it's fine to feed them whatever some amateur can write up on the first draft. Who's going to question the writers for THIS show?

[Arctofire 227]

Please expand on this, and I've realized your a season2er (a new word which I plan to be used in this fandom, similar to genwunner from the Pokemon fanbase.)

 

You mentioned that Discord was written badly in Twilight's Kingdom in another thread. Why? He was the best thing about that episode in my opinion.

 

Yes, there have been some downsides. Apart from Pinkie Pride, Maud Pie, and Pinkie Apple Pie, it's evident that Pinkie has tasted the flanderization dagger. However, I think this started back in season 3, it's only gotten worse now.

 

Action has not been put above story. Sure, the action in Twilight's Kingdom was a bit destructive and was put very high on the priority list of that episode. But apart from that, I don't see what your getting at. MLP has always had action in it, and whilst this is the first time lasers have been shown, they were mostly used in moderation, such as in Princess Twilight Sparkle.

 

How have they stopped trying? Please expand on this. I am convinced that your argument will be full of holes, but I'm willing to here it anyway, just in case you have a really solid argument that I will be able to respect.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Arctofire

[Pastel 7,630]

I'm sure there had been a season 4 discussion topic months ago, don't know what happened to it...

 

Anyway, season 4 is my second favorite season so far, I found it a bit darker and more mature than the rest of the show (especially the season finale).

 

My favorite episodes are:

Bats!

Maud Pie

Rainbow Falls (I don't understand the hate)

It Ain't Easy Beeing Breezies

For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils

Twilight's Kingdom

Castle Mane-ia

 

My least favorites:

Trade Ya!

Simple Ways

Leap of Faith

 

I really liked the keys subplot throughout the season, I hope there'll be something similar in season 5.

I just got a bit disappointed by the last episodes, they were a little boring (except the season finale of course)...

Edited February 26, 2015 by Blobulle

[Nature's Spell 526]

My interest in the show is primarily based upon my interest in Twilight, so if she is not the focus of an episode, or flanderized in some way, I'm not interested. My main beef with the 4th season was that it took so long to define her role and the new princess jitters was carried way to far. Luna and Rarity are my second and third favorite characters and I enjoyed their focus when it happened.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Nature's Spell

[PROJECT: Simon 3,954]

Season 4 was great... even though I don't understand why people hates it but I enjoyed it. This season made me nervous... really enjoyed it. 

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Arctofire

You know, it really helps if you use the site's functions when you respond to a person, it gives me a little notification that you responded to me rather than me having to stumble on it and infer that you are in fact talking to me.

 

Let's go over this then. First Discord. In both Princess Twilight Sparkle and Three's a Crowd, was clearly just there to be there. He doesn't add anything to the story or the drama or whatever, he's basically jeering from the sidelines. He was even the main focus of Three's a Crowd and yet he did next to nothing more than say "Look at me, I'm in this episode! I'm messing with them LOL!" That's not terrible or anything, it's just a waste. But then comes Twilight's Kingdom, which ruins him for several reasons. One, he's a moron. Everything we've seen of Discord shows that he's smart, one of the smartest characters in the show. He doesn't have the fanbase he does because he's funny or badass, it's because he's very intelligently written. He's kind of a genius, I could write pages about how the depth of his actions in Return of Harmony isn't even noticed by most of the viewers. Which is why his actions in Twilight's Kingdom, the actions which drive the entire story, are crap. Discord's conversation with Tirek in the alleyway is not written by a smart person. It's essentially a placeholder conversation that gives you the gist of what happened without actually being a convincing scene. It would have been no worse to just say

<Tirek tempts Discord with freedom and companionship, offering him Equestria as well>

<Discord accepts>

because the details don't actually hold up and the scene is forced as hell.
Next up they're in the throne room and Tirek offers Discord his medallion, as if that means something. And Discord actually says that he didn't totally trust Tirek before but, because of the necklace, now he does. What the crap is this writing? Who is this character standing in for one of the smartest villains of cartoon history? At this point most viewers I assume figured that Discord was playing a long con, trying to keep Tirek's trust long enough to do something unexpected. I mean, he knows better than anyone how to be a conniving, untrustworthy backstabber. Even Tirek has a hard time believing Discord didn't see the betrayal coming.

But after that comes the worst part. Thanks to Twilight saving Discord from... a bubble, as if that accomplishes something or demonstrates their bond or matters at all, Discord is taught the true meaning of friendship. This is a gigantic insult to Fluttershy, who by herself and in a believable manner actually did teach Discord how friendship works, at least to a small degree. But even that small degree is leagues beyond whatever Twilight supposedly taught him. It's pretty much undeniable fact that what Fluttershy did in reforming Discord was the most impressive, incredible feat pulled off by anyone in the history of Equestria, and she did it ALONE. But McCarthy could never stand for that! Only Main Character Super Special Alicorn Princess of Friendship Twilight Sparkle could show Discord the TRUE meaning of friendship! Anything less would just have him turn evil again at the slightest poorly written temptation. Sorry Fluttershy, your incredible feat meant nothing after all.

 

 

As for Pinkie Pie, well yeah she hasn't had a decent episode since MMMMystery, and she waaaaasn't exactly in top form there. She's long dead, never coming back, replaced with an unfeeling, uncompassionate gag machine who really isn't a good enough person to deserve friends.

 

Unfortunately my only argument for them not trying is... Just look at it! The stories fall apart with the slightest scrutiny, continuity is all but gone, clever writing is replaced with lasers and fighting, what used to be strong, deep characters get rewritten every episode for the shallow, nonsensical stories, the only morals left are terrible and made up, not even following the events of the episode, all the clever little things from the songs and dresses and mannerisms have taken a nosedive, the core messages the series has always stuck to are ignored, episodes have become actually cliché from start to finish rather than an original take on clichéd material as before, every character gets at least one episode to absolutely ruin who they are and what they stand for, the writers don't even know who Spike is. You may see this as full of holes, but I don't know what more I could possibly point to to show a systematic lack of effort from these writers who have taken something Lauren Faust worked hard with her team to create, and turned it into their fanfiction general.

 

But hey, that's just my "opinion"

Edited February 26, 2015 by Dulset Tarn

[dragoonanime 39]

The one thing I hated about this season is that Twilight only got one episode while the other 5 got 2 or more. I hope season 5 gives a better balance of episodes between the characters.

[Arctofire 227]

@@Dulset Tarn

 

Pinkie Pride was good, you can't deny that.

 

I can see why some people don't like Twilight's Kingdom, but for me personally, the arc was written well. Sure, he isn't the psychotic mastermind that he was in Return of Harmony, but he hasn't been since Keep Calm and Flutter On. Here he learns that how important friendship is, and just how valuable the mane 6 are to have as friends, unlike Tirek. I can see why people were angry that it was Twilight when it was Fluttershy who did most of the work reforming him, but if you think about it, this is an arc for Twilight. For all of season 4 she was suspicious of Discord's actions, and disliked him a lot. However, in Twilight's Kingdom, her fears are confirmed, but she comes to the conclusion to forgive him for his crimes and let them be full friends, which is how she earns her key.

 

I think your being SO harsh on this season that it's intellectually insulting. This offensive to Lauren Faust thing is not true. For Equestria Girls, debatably , for this season, no.

 

In Threes A Crowd, yes, Discord was just in there for the sake of being in there. But is that a bad thing? No way. Discord is one of the most fun and enjoyable characters this show has to offer.

 

I believe too that McCarthy shouldn't have got the job as lead writer and I do think that Larson would have done a better job. But McCarthy isn't a bad writer by any means, and with the season 5 trailer looking like it might be more old school FIM, we'll just have to wait and see what she does. Her biggest creative bomb was EQG, but that's in the past, and season 4, at least to me, proved that she could handle this franchise with care and creativity. I feel that Discord's arc was done well, and despite being a bad decision in the long run, season 4 handled Twilight's princess ascension superbly.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Arctofire

[Dulset Tarn 441]

@@Dulset Tarn

 

Pinkie Pride was good, you can't deny that.

 

I can see why some people don't like Twilight's Kingdom, but for me personally, the arc was written well. Sure, he isn't the psychotic mastermind that he was in Return of Harmony, but he hasn't been since Keep Calm and Flutter On. Here he learns that how important friendship is, and just how valuable the mane 6 are to have as friends, unlike Tirek. I can see why people were angry that it was Twilight when it was Fluttershy who did most of the work reforming him, but if you think about it, this is an arc for Twilight. For all of season 4 she was suspicious of Discord's actions, and disliked him a lot. However, in Twilight's Kingdom, her fears are confirmed, but she comes to the conclusion to forgive him for his crimes and let them be full friends, which is how she earns her key.

 

I think your being SO harsh on this season that it's intellectually insulting. This offensive to Lauren Faust thing is not true. For Equestria Girls, debatably , for this season, no.

 

In Threes A Crowd, yes, Discord was just in there for the sake of being in there. But is that a bad thing? No way. Discord is one of the most fun and enjoyable characters this show has to offer.

 

I believe too that McCarthy shouldn't have got the job as lead writer and I do think that Larson would have done a better job. But McCarthy isn't a bad writer by any means, and with the season 5 trailer looking like it might be more old school FIM, we'll just have to wait and see what she does. Her biggest creative bomb was EQG, but that's in the past, and season 4, at least to me, proved that she could handle this franchise with care and creativity. I feel that Discord's arc was done well, and despite being a bad decision in the long run, season 4 handled Twilight's princess ascension superbly.

First off, that's not how you @respond to someone. Second, you're basically admitting that everything I said was right. I don't mind at all if people like things I don't, or things they admit are stupid, but it's important to know what's stupid and what isn't.

 

As for Pinkie Pride, I said earlier that it was one of my favorites of the season. But it was all but ruined by Pinkie's characterization being the worst it's ever been. Even in Filli Vanilli she wasn't THAT bad of a person.

[Prince Firemane 309]

Eh, I didn't love season 4, but I didn't hate it either. For me, it was just kind of... there, just like season 3; I won't watch most episodes more than once. The premieres and finales are always favorites of mine since they break away from what has become a lifeless, slice-of-life paradigm. If a slice-of-life episode doesn't introduce something new or elaborate what's only been hinted at, then I don't see any real reason to watch it again. Which is why I love seasons 1 and 2. Season 1 defined the mane six's core traits and let us get to know them while season 2 fleshed out some of their more subtle and sometimes less positive qualities. Those two seasons together defined these mares as three-dimensional characters. Season 3, however, just rehashed a lot of the old plotlines from the seasons before it, but I personally give season 3 some leeway in the quality department since the writers were splitting their time between that season and Equestria Girls.

 

Season 4, however, fell into the same rut as season 3, it was rehashing yet again old storylines in order to fill the slice-of-life spots. Rarity is a selfish drama queen... again. Fluttershy is a spineless doormat... again.  Rainbow Dash can't figure out her loyalties... again. Pinkie Pie is a ball of weirdness... again. Applejack is being bullheaded... again. Twilight is a neurotic mess... again. These are facts, these are known and several episodes in the past have already covered these tendencies, why must they continually be rehashed? Apparently these mares are completely incompetent and are unable to retain basic lessons that they learned only a few episodes ago.

 

That being said, season 4 was not without its highlights. There was some great humor and some great stories. I thought the story arc of the keys was very well done, though a bit more could've been done. the keys were only a part of the story line for the premiere and finale, the dots weren't connected until the finale. A little mention, something about the keys or the Tree of Harmony, something to assure us that the events actually mattered would've been nice. Sure, we knew they were important, but it's a bit jarring when we know something that the mane six don't for 26 episodes.

 

Ironically, the thing that annoys me the most about season 4 has actually nothing to do with it. I don't understand all the fan hate for it. Was it rusty? Yeah. Could it have been done better? Of course. But most of what I've seen are people complaining about the Tirek/Twilight fight scene as if the whole season was just 26 episodes of DBZ copied and pasted into FiM. It was in one episode. It lasted less than two minutes and at the end of the day, it's not what defeated Tirek. The mane six came together and he was defeated by the magic of friendship just like every other main villain before him. Was it garish? Yeah. Was it unnecessary? Possibly. Was it pointless? Absolutely not.

 

As always, very important information about characters can be gleaned by reading the subtext. Just a few episodes before in Trade Ya!, Twilight expressed that she was uncomfortable trading away her books because they represented the milestones in the journey she undertook to becoming a Princess and her life as Celestia's student. The library itself was her very first home in Ponyville, it was the hub of her first friendships. With one fateful fireball, Tirek took all that away from her. He destroyed her home and the books that held so much sentiment to her. Not to mention, I imagine this was the first time she was faced with true mortality. Nightmare Moon planted obstacles in font of her and her friends. Discord messed with their heads. Chrysalis just sent her underlings to deal with them. Sombra wasn't even really there. This was the first time Twilight was faced with this kind of situation, Tirek was ruthlessly coming after her and her alone with everything he had. With only having a few moments to take this all in, I can see why Twilight lost her mind.

[Arctofire 227]

Eh, I didn't love season 4, but I didn't hate it either. For me, it was just kind of... there, just like season 3; I won't watch most episodes more than once. The premieres and finales are always favorites of mine since they break away from what has become a lifeless, slice-of-life paradigm. If a slice-of-life episode doesn't introduce something new or elaborate what's only been hinted at, then I don't see any real reason to watch it again. Which is why I love seasons 1 and 2. Season 1 defined the mane six's core traits and let us get to know them while season 2 fleshed out some of their more subtle and sometimes less positive qualities. Those two seasons together defined these mares as three-dimensional characters. Season 3, however, just rehashed a lot of the old plotlines from the seasons before it, but I personally give season 3 some leeway in the quality department since the writers were splitting their time between that season and Equestria Girls.

 

Season 4, however, fell into the same rut as season 3, it was rehashing yet again old storylines in order to fill the slice-of-life spots. Rarity is a selfish drama queen... again. Fluttershy is a spineless doormat... again.  Rainbow Dash can't figure out her loyalties... again. Pinkie Pie is a ball of weirdness... again. Applejack is being bullheaded... again. Twilight is a neurotic mess... again. These are facts, these are known and several episodes in the past have already covered these tendencies, why must they continually be rehashed? Apparently these mares are completely incompetent and are unable to retain basic lessons that they learned only a few episodes ago.

 

That being said, season 4 was not without its highlights. There was some great humor and some great stories. I thought the story arc of the keys was very well done, though a bit more could've been done. the keys were only a part of the story line for the premiere and finale, the dots weren't connected until the finale. A little mention, something about the keys or the Tree of Harmony, something to assure us that the events actually mattered would've been nice. Sure, we knew they were important, but it's a bit jarring when we know something that the mane six don't for 26 episodes.

 

Ironically, the thing that annoys me the most about season 4 has actually nothing to do with it. I don't understand all the fan hate for it. Was it rusty? Yeah. Could it have been done better? Of course. But most of what I've seen are people complaining about the Tirek/Twilight fight scene as if the whole season was just 26 episodes of DBZ copied and pasted into FiM. It was in one episode. It lasted less than two minutes and at the end of the day, it's not what defeated Tirek. The mane six came together and he was defeated by the magic of friendship just like every other main villain before him. Was it garish? Yeah. Was it unnecessary? Possibly. Was it pointless? Absolutely not.

 

As always, very important information about characters can be gleaned by reading the subtext. Just a few episodes before in Trade Ya!, Twilight expressed that she was uncomfortable trading away her books because they represented the milestones in the journey she undertook to becoming a Princess and her life as Celestia's student. The library itself was her very first home in Ponyville, it was the hub of her first friendships. With one fateful fireball, Tirek took all that away from her. He destroyed her home and the books that held so much sentiment to her. Not to mention, I imagine this was the first time she was faced with true mortality. Nightmare Moon planted obstacles in font of her and her friends. Discord messed with their heads. Chrysalis just sent her underlings to deal with them. Sombra wasn't even really there. This was the first time Twilight was faced with this kind of situation, Tirek was ruthlessly coming after her and her alone with everything he had. With only having a few moments to take this all in, I can see why Twilight lost her mind.

 

Yes, I can't deny that it did feel a little bit like these characters haven't grown that much, and what really annoyed me was Rainbow Falls, because it was just Wonderbolts Academy done over again. That was the episode which made Rainbow Dash not best pony for me anymore.

 

Yes, it would be nice to see the mane 6 grow other than Twilight. That's one thing that I hope to see in season 5. Then finally making progress with their lives and making decisions, but I personally feel like that wasn't enough to make the season bad for me. There were loads of episodes which weren't just rehashes of older episodes, like: Pinkie Pride and Flight to the Finish, and I greatly appreciated those ones. So yeah, I can see where your coming from, but I don't agree with you personally on the season just being rehash of earlier seasons overall. I do agree with you however on the keys, that was an awesome subplot.

Edited February 27, 2015 by PATHFINDERCS
Removed line referencing member

[Dulset Tarn 441]

So I see a lot of people here saying they liked the key plotline. If you don't mind, could you explain what you enjoyed about it?

 

I thought it was a good idea to start, but you immediately understand how it'll go pretty much from the beginning so nothing new is added and there aren't any curveballs to keep people invested. I thought the box/castle was a pretty neat metaphor, it essentially serves as Twilight's "princess" cutie mark. Of course Rainbow Power was awful and the castle is hideous, but there are a few good ideas buried in there.

[Prince Firemane 309]

So I see a lot of people here saying they liked the key plotline. If you don't mind, could you explain what you enjoyed about it?

Well, I liked it because each of the mane six had to go through their own personal trials and catharsis in order to earn their keys and their Rainbow Power. This time, it wasn't Twilight figuring everything out and the other five being along for the ride. However, I will agree with you when the predictability was disappointing. As soon as Coco Pommel gave Rarity that spool of rainbow thread, I knew that every one of them would have to be given a meaningful gift after holding up their Element and said gift would be their key. In fact, when Twilight explained it all to the rest of them, it was almost verbatim what I told my friends what would happen four months earlier.

 

As for the Rainbow Power designs, I had the same hair-trigger response as everyone else, although my specific thought was that they were very "80s hair band on acid". Although I must admit that they've been slowly growing on me. I hope that in the future, they will be given more simplistic designs like in Rainbow Rocks and the main designs would be saved for special purposes; one or two streaks of color in the mane and tail and that's it. Hopefully if that happens the animators will learn some color sense, I'm tired of playing this game where pink, purple and tan actually go together.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Rainbow Falls is the only episode I strongly disliked from season 4 and even then I have so much fun hating on it that in a twisted way I love it. There were quite a few meh episodes, but there were also several great episodes imo. Testing, Testing 1, 2, 3 is my favourite of the entire series. Great morals and character moments too.

 

So overall like 8-8.5/10. To qualify that, 10/10 is reserved for masterpieces like 2001 or Rear Window or something. So basically I really enjoyed it.

[Arctofire 227]

Rainbow Falls is the only episode I strongly disliked from season 4 and even then I have so much fun hating on it that in a twisted way I love it. There were quite a few meh episodes, but there were also several great episodes imo. Testing, Testing 1, 2, 3 is my favourite of the entire series. Great morals and character moments too.

 

So overall like 8-8.5/10. To qualify that, 10/10 is reserved for masterpieces like 2001 or Rear Window or something. So basically I really enjoyed it.

 

Episodes I hated in season 4:

 

- Somepony To Watch Over Me

- Rainbow Falls

- For Whom The Sweetie Belle Toils

 

Those were the only episodes which I truly disliked, the rest I thought were either mediocre or fantastic.

[Megas 27,622]

Despite myself considering it the weakest season, I still think it was great and had lots of things to like about it

[veryoriginalponyname 121]

I was pretty well satisfied with a good portion of it. It had moments that I think are among their best work, it finally introduced a pony that I feel I can relate to completely with Maud Pie, I quite enjoy how they've handled Discord, and it dedicated some much need screen time to my favorite pony, Scootaloo. Overall I think it did a fantastic job of character development with all the major players, except, in all honesty for Twilight, who aside from the premiere and finale, was basically a side character most of the time, but then again, I've never really been all that invested in Twilight in the first place, so I pretty much wasn't letdown in that regard.

 

Unfortunately, I also think it had some of the biggest failings. Rainbow Falls just utterly devastated me in what a total misfire it was, Power Ponies was just too awkward for me to check my brain at the door and enjoy, we got what I personally think is the first bad Rarity episode with Simple Ways, and I don't think any of the songs that season really stood out. With the exception of "Bats" and maybe "Apples to the Core", I barely remembered most of them, I didn't find myself humming any of them for days afterwards, just kind of a letdown for one of my favorite aspects of the show.

 

I wish I could do a more in depth and thorough analysis, but I really don't have the energy for that kind of thing at the moment. Long story short: Had some great moments, had some awful moments, but in the end, good outweighed the bad. 

[The Second Opinion 270]

Well, Season 4 was definitely where the team (new members and old) started to experiment again, trying different approaches and new storylines to see if they could bring anything fresh to the table. I didn't think it was as inspired as the first two seasons. They didn't seem to have quite as strong a sense of what they wanted to bring to the table, neither with the characters nor the messages. But I also thought they were getting more into it as they went along, and it worked its way up to at least the same league.

And that said, I don't know how anyone could consider that worse than season 3. If 4 was where it started recovering its inspiration, 3 was where it lost it in the first place. Instead of just the Applejack episodes, now over half the episodes in the season were at a loss on how to tell a story that really explored and progressed its characters. More often than not, it just thought up stories that "fit the bill" as something that would happen to them and filled them up with enough hijinks and obligatory plotting so the characters themselves only had to do the obvious stuff to get us from A to B.

[EVBP 94]

Did anyone notice that one of the portraits seen in Castle Mane-ia is the same portrait that Rarity bumped into in MMMystery on the Friendship Express?

 

I just noticed this and wondered if there was any significance to it.