Drawponies tracing scandal!

[Argumedies 1,748]

Well, they can stop anyone that makes any money off of it then if they truly wish to. If you wish to boil down all fan works as copyright infringement anyway then they would be all the same. I'm only looking at it from a perspective involved with integrity, not one based on the law. I think there is a difference between making art inspired by something and just copying it. In my opinion. Your opinion must be that tracing is good. But if a person has to trace to make art then they can't draw. They have no self-respect or dignity. Sure, Hasbro can make life difficult for anyone that makes any fan art; even those that are not sold for money. But gladly, they don't. I hope it's because they can see some value in how artists can make a genuine effort at creating something beautiful that may have been inspired by something else.

No, im not saying that traceing art is good, but i also dont see it as bad.

 

Now, if we were talking about Vangoh, Rembrant, i can see a more relivent arguement. But were not and getting all up in arms about it is more ignorant then the issue itself.

[Jeric 46,850]

No, what is meaningless is this whole arguement as if this traceing thing is the end of the world.

 

What i find ignorent is that the fandom tends to forget that they dont own the copyrights.

 

They tend to forget that its Hasbro that owns the intelectual property right to anything with the my little pony: friendship is magic name attached to it.

 

From every video to fanfiction to plushy made bought and sold is a copyrighted item including original fan made artworks

 

So what if he made money off a traced peice, fans all over this are makeing money off property that isnt theirs to begin with.

This is actually why I despise what Drawponies did. There is a chance that actions like his could have a ripple effect across all artists that adapt the trademarked characters in their own style. Hasbro has actually shown a lot of restraint when it comes to fandom artists. Laziness and a desire for assembly line production from Drawponies may wind up putting a bullseye on other artists.

 

Maybe it's the big picture mindset grown out of the corporate culture I work in, but this is exactly the example that lawyers use as leverage when promoting legal policy to the suits.

 

To me this isn't about him saving face, it is about jeopardizing the salutory neglect we've enjoyed.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

This is actually why I despise what Drawponies did. There is a chance that actions like his could have a ripple effect across all artists that adapt the trademarked characters in their own style. Hasbro has actually shown a lot of restraint when it comes to fandom artists. Laziness and a desire for assembly line production from Drawponies may wind up putting a bullseye on other artists.

Maybe it's the big picture mindset grown out of the corporate culture I work in, but this is exactly the example that lawyers use as leverage when promoting legal policy to the suits.

To me this isn't about him saving face, it is about jeopardizing the salutory neglect we've enjoyed.

I hope not as if Drawponies thinks he's hated now, he'll be in hell from the fandom from then on out. Hopefully no legal action happens or Hasbro just only targets him for it.

[A Black Circle 1,586]

Even though this is awful, the "HE TRACED!?!?!? D:" reactions sound really hilarious. I'm not sure why,

[yeet 2,026]

A plagiarist and a thief! That person and any group he works with is blacklisted from my patronage forever and ever!! When next time I go to a con, I will write a letter demanding they get banned if they aren't already shut down by then! I am so furious since I've bought things from those scam artists before! Anyone want a blanket? I'll get rid of it for half of what I paid and I'll even pay the shipping!!!  

 

Even though if stolen, it is not art.

you should just bin the blanket if you're gonna think like that. And if you quoted the entire of my message, you would see I said I would rather but 'stolen' art than another shitty call of duty.

This is supposed to be one of the friendliest fandoms, yet when someone does something relatively bad, eveyone hates them xD

[Miles 2,512]

This is actually why I despise what Drawponies did.

[snip]

 

Though I am not fully in agreement to all of what you have said, I can still say that I enjoyed reading "did" in your post...

 

Because it means: you hate the action, not the person.

 

That's a lot more understandable.  

 

(If I'm misinterpreting, my apologies.  But, if I'm misinterpreting, then I can only say: love and tolerate.)

 

~ Miles

 

 

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

This is supposed to be one of the friendliest fandoms

We like to think so but "love and tolerance" is more an ideal than the actual state of the majority of the fandom... so the average Brony is probably not too different from someone from another fandom.

[Guest90210 3,568]

I hope not as if Drawponies thinks he's hated now, he'll be in hell from the fandom from then on out. Hopefully no legal action happens or Hasbro just only targets him for it.

 

This is actually why I despise what Drawponies did. There is a chance that actions like his could have a ripple effect across all artists that adapt the trademarked characters in their own style. Hasbro has actually shown a lot of restraint when it comes to fandom artists. Laziness and a desire for assembly line production from Drawponies may wind up putting a bullseye on other artists.

 

Hasbro doesn't care, and this isn't going to cause any sort of "ripple effect". They are sitting back counting phat stacks of sweet Benjamins as we speak. Some random guy selling traced artwork at conventions doesn't concern them enough to go on some bullseye witch hunt to stop other artists.

 

-----------------------

 

I still don't see what the big deal is about a guy tracing art to save time, but whatever. I hope Neil recovers from this, he doesn't deserve this ridiculous scrutiny and bashing that he's been getting from the fandom.

 

Sure, it was dishonest and lazy of him to trace some of his art work, but it wasn't "horrible and vile, he deserves to be on the street" like some people are unfortunately saying, and he certainly isn't deserving of all this character defamation. I'm still a fan of his. He's a good guy

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rivendare

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

This is actually why I despise what Drawponies did. There is a chance that actions like his could have a ripple effect across all artists that adapt the trademarked characters in their own style. Hasbro has actually shown a lot of restraint when it comes to fandom artists. Laziness and a desire for assembly line production from Drawponies may wind up putting a bullseye on other artists.

 

Maybe it's the big picture mindset grown out of the corporate culture I work in, but this is exactly the example that lawyers use as leverage when promoting legal policy to the suits.

 

To me this isn't about him saving face, it is about jeopardizing the salutory neglect we've enjoyed.

This is by far the most important thing about the Drawponies scandal. Everything else, including the ethics of his tracing and the legality of him selling that traced artwork as his own, is subjective and can be viewed in different ways.

 

I have no personal feelings about Drawponies himself. But if Hasbro is sufficiently upset that they end up changing their lenient stance towards fan-produced art, that changes things for everyone. That could hurt the fandom far more than one guy making a living off lazily produced work. That is why we should not simply excuse what he did. 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Hasbro doesn't care, and this isn't going to cause any sort of "ripple effect". They are sitting back counting phat stacks of sweet Benjamins as we speak. Some random guy selling traced artwork at conventions doesn't concern them enough to go on some bullseye witch hunt to stop other artists.

 

-----------------------

 

I still don't see what the big deal is about a guy tracing art to save time, but whatever. I hope Neil recovers from this, he doesn't deserve this ridiculous scrutiny and bashing that he's been getting from the fandom.

Frankly I wish your point on Hasbro would prove to be true.

[Zhortac 1,474]

You know, everyone who says, "I met him once/twice, and he was a cool guy", that doesn't mean squat. I can tell by his "apology" and the way him and his gaggle of clowns tried to sweep this under the rug, that they know PR crap. It's not hard to act like a fantasic person, to sell stuff. No one is going to buy anything from you, if you're not friendly and bright, that's basic business.

 

He spent 2+ years selling off traced art, never once saying he did it, where he traced from, and called it his "original" work. Anyone who pointed it out, was banned from his facebook group, and blocked on Twitter. He made a living off selling them, and that was admitted to a few times on his page by him, and his admins. He's pretty much a scam artist.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

This is supposed to be one of the friendliest fandoms

I am extremely friendly but there are times when I can be not so friendly. These sort of people does not earn anything but my extreme displeasure.

 

 

Sure, it was dishonest and lazy of him to trace some of his art work

Tracing is what little children do. It's like connecting the dots. Anybody can do it.

[Prince Firemane 309]

I don't really know who's who in the brony community and I've honestly never heard of Drawponies until now, so I have less of an opinion than others I've seen. I don't mind the tracing in and of itself, I do it on several of my pieces to either make them as show-accurate as possible or to get as close to the show's style as I can. However, I don't make money off my fanart. Now like I said, I never heard of him until now, but I know that he has a name for himself and that certain expectations come with that. But did he ever actually lie and say he never traced at all, or did he lie by omission by not admitting the traced elements?

[Guest90210 3,568]

Tracing is what little children do. It's like connecting the dots. Anybody can do it.

 

Most of his art wasn't traced. And even in the art that was traced, he still added original elements around it, such as a single traced (and subsequently edited and fit) head in a group shot of the Mane 6. So it isn't that simple.

 

 

But did he ever actually lie and say he never traced at all, or did he lie by omission by not admitting the traced elements?

 

No one accused him of tracing before this incident, as far as I know. So he just never mentioned that a portion of his art was partially traced before-hand. Once people found out, he admitted that he did it to speed up art work, mainly for comic strips on his page. But, some of the traced work was sold at conventions as "original" art, which, was partially dishonest since he took an easy route by tracing parts from the show. But, his art looks similar to the show in the first place, so it isn't nearly as bad as people as painting it out to be.

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

Most of his art wasn't traced.

I've never traced. I would rather have my art look terrible than to do something like that. I don't feel good knowing that this person is profiting on such an underhanded tactic. It makes me uncomfortable. I am still going to have to blacklist him. If he had been more honest about what he was doing then maybe things would be different.

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

 

 

As for promising never to do it again, ever heard of the cliche, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"? This applies.

 

Sure, but in all fairness, I don't see how he could get away with this again, even if he wanted to.

 

DP pissed off almost the entire fandom with this stunt. Said fandom then dug into his pictures and compiled enough evidence to nail him to the wall and force a confession within hours of the scandal breaking. If he so much as traces one more pony in one more picture, within one day he'll have an army of angry fans ready to mount his arse on a stop sign and leave him to direct traffic.

 

My prediction: People are going to take his apology with a grain of salt (as they should), the art scene is going to be a bit rough for Neil for about half a year, but we won't see a repeat. Neil may be lazy and dumb, but he seems like a good enough human being underneath the whole lazy shithead thing. After this rough period, people will have moved on, and most of Neil's former fans will have come back to him. He lives, learns, and develops his art skills, business ethics, and self-preservation instinct while he's at it..

[Guest90210 3,568]

I've never traced. I would rather have my art look terrible than to do something like that. I don't feel good knowing that this person is profiting on such an underhanded tactic. It makes me uncomfortable. I am still going to have to blacklist him. If he had been more honest about what he was doing then maybe things would be different.

 

Fair enough. I understand other artist's frustrations regarding the tracing aspect, and if you think his art is terrible because of it (or his art in general), that is fine. Art is subjective.

 

He shouldn't have traced part of his art, sure. It was somewhat lazy and dishonest. But, his art work already looked like the show's to begin with. That doesn't mean he should have traced it, but it shows that he did it out of the interest of time to get his work out faster. It's lame as an artist to take the easy route, but frankly, if I was a customer, I wouldn't care as long as it looks good. And being a fan of his means I'd be in the market for some art that resembles the show's to an extent. Again, most of his content was original, even his partially traced art included original elements. It's not a big deal to me. He's a good guy, he didn't intent to commit wide-scale "fraud".

 

As I've mentioned before, it isn't worth throwing him to the wolves for. One of my main points has been that it is unfair that he's attracting so much hatred for "plagiarism" from the fandom when the fandom itself is built upon massive layers of copyright infringement to begin with. I'd think that considering the mass usage of Hasbro's IP that people use to create their own content, the fandom would be lenient when it comes to stuff like this. But I guess not. Obsessive drama is a more interesting story apparently. The fandom doesn't give a damn about plagiarism and the usage of Hasbro's IP 99% of the time.

 

It's just a dude who sold some partially traced show artwork at some conventions (that people happen to enjoy). Not a dude who traced over Jimmy Just-Started-Drawing's original piece, banked ridiculous profit, and then covered up the tracks of his plagiarism. If it was him tracing a small-time guy's art and selling it, I'd see a much better reason to be upset. But since it's screenshots of the show itself which has allowed people to create enormous amounts of creative content with, I ain't gonna be drawing swords over it.

 

I doubt Hasbro is hurting financially due to this "incident". People use the show as a basis to create or host content all of the time and sometimes make money off it (including these very forums!).

 

He has admitted to making mistakes and that he hasn't been fully honest about his work. It was sorta shady for him to claim "original work" when it isn't fully original or fully self-made, I get that. Everyone has the right to their opinions and frustrations. I just ask that people keep a level head.

 

With all of that covered, I've said basically all that I can say at this point, so I'll be bouncing out this thread. Remember to eat drink your milk and drink your vitamins.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rivendare

[MischiefHowl 37]

I can understand where everyone is coming from but everyone has their opinions. Good points everywhere. But I stand by what I say. Tracing shouldn't be frowned upon. Those that do trace at times in bits and places to aid in their drawings should be okay. You can also learn to do your own original art from tracing. Everyone has different ideas and thoughts.

 

Tracing turns to using reference turns to original art. At least that's how I feel. If I miss the point, I miss the point. And in the end, probably like Mand'alor Dash says in their prediction. Eventually everyone will forget and move on, or at least forgive. Neil has potential to do original art. And I hold hope he will learn from this and not do it again.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

I can understand where everyone is coming from but everyone has their opinions. Good points everywhere. But I stand by what I say. Tracing shouldn't be frowned upon. Those that do trace at times in bits and places to aid in their drawings should be okay. You can also learn to do your own original art from tracing. Everyone has different ideas and thoughts.

 

Tracing turns to using reference turns to original art. At least that's how I feel. If I miss the point, I miss the point. And in the end, probably like Mand'alor Dash says in their prediction. Eventually everyone will forget and move on, or at least forgive. Neil has potential to do original art. And I hold hope he will learn from this and not do it again.

But this is something that boggles me with drawponies. He clearly is skilled enough to make his own work so tracing isn't useful to him as a learning experience; that's something I see only very early beginners do (though even at that skill level I question the usefulness of it but I guess everyone's different). And he has stated that he traced to save time which isn't a valid reason.

[Aleh 481]

But this is something that boggles me with drawponies. He clearly is skilled enough to make his own work so tracing isn't useful to him as a learning experience; that's something I see only very early beginners do (though even at that skill level I question the usefulness of it but I guess everyone's different). And he has stated that he traced to save time which isn't a valid reason.

But it is. Many artists do it when making comics quickly, either for a deadline or just because they're lazy. 

He SHOULD have traced his own work. But it made very little difference to the end result apart from the decreased effort.

 

The main thing I've been confused about this time is that he did it in a stream.  If he was trying to hide the fact he was tracing he was hardly doing a very good job >.<

Edited April 22, 2015 by Aleh

[MischiefHowl 37]

But this is something that boggles me with drawponies. He clearly is skilled enough to make his own work so tracing isn't useful to him as a learning experience; that's something I see only very early beginners do (though even at that skill level I question the usefulness of it but I guess everyone's different). And he has stated that he traced to save time which isn't a valid reason.

I can agree with this. I do hope he does do his own work from now on. My skill level is a little low but I do everything to try not to trace (circles and shapes are tough to me, easy to others). I just hope he learns from all this, that's all I hope for. Forgive but don't forget is my motto. Unless he keeps doing it, then that'd be that.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

But it is. Many artists do it when making comics quickly, either for a deadline or just because they're lazy. 

He SHOULD have traced his own work. But it made very little difference to the end result apart from the decreased effort.

 

The main thing I've been confused about this time is that he did it in a stream.  If he was trying to hide the fact he was tracing he was hardly doing a very good job >.<

I have seen people make MLP comics entirely out of vectors traced from the show. But I've often seen those comics credit the people who made the vectors who credit MLP (or not but it's so obvious that it really isn't necessary at that point). I'm fine with those people because they don't claim their graphics to be their own. Like someone has already said, had he given credit for parts he did trace, people wouldn't care as much (though he would probably still be criticized for it though at a much lesser degree compared to now).

 

And that point about the streaming, I don't understand either. Did he already assume people knew he traced (though people reported that he allegedly blocks user or denies previous claims of tracing)? Did he think it was not such a big issue? Did he believe tracing something counted as solely his own work? Questions.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna

[darkwingmare 1,300]

I think people are overreacting way too much. It's not like he killed someone or anything, I know it's bad to trace, especially to trace and take cred for the art instead of admitting that it's an actual trace. I mean, I traced official MLP pony vectors just to learn how to draw pony anatomy, for example. Tracing is a great way to learn, or an easier way to make something you're satisfied with instead of constantly failing.

 

Either way, it's always important to credit the actual artists, or at least give people a source to the original art. That's the only thing he did wrong. I've never really heard of this "drawponies", but people are being WAY too mean and hard on him for this, it's ridiculous. I thought we were an understanding and loving fandom, but I'm constantly proved the opposite nowadays. People are getting way too offended for something so small, I KNOW it's wrong to trace, take cred for it and sell it(I'm not sure if he sold it, but it seems he did?), but this happens constantly everywhere and it's not the end of the world.

People should put themselves in his shoes, how do you think he feels after all this? Probably not very well, and this is not a very big crime compared to all the other MUCH bigger problems we have out there. We got him, he's caught with what he did wrong, let him suck on that reveal and feel bad for a moment, then let it go and leave him alone, god. This upsets me a little bit, people are way too offended about everything.

 

Edit: After looking at his art.... Didn't anyone already see that he traced or just used the vectors in the first place? It's pretty obvious now that I look at what he's done, especially some of them. Basically all artists that make "canon/official looking" comics out there are made using vectors anyway? I don't see how this is such a big deal and I'm an artist myself, I know how wrong it is to steal art. I'm just an easy-going, open-minded one who tries to understand other people rather than blaming them for what they did wrong.

Edited April 22, 2015 by darkwingmare

[Silver Letter 1,832]

 

 

Didn't anyone already see that he traced or just used the vectors in the first place?

Oh, blame us. How nice. Is it really the fault of those that don't know every artist in the fandom? Because it sure wasn't obvious to me. Should we keep a thousand pictures of Twilight handy so we can determine what is and isn't a trace? You admit that you didn't know who this person was so you can only say what you said in hindsight which is a luxury. It's no help for people like me that paid for this person's work only to find out that it was the product of effort no greater than a child's most simple drawings.

 

 

 

open-minded one who tries to understand other people

You mean you come up with excuses. I usually don't. Either someone is right or they are wrong. This person is wrong.

[Luna the Great of all the Russias 2,978]

It's no help for people like me that paid for this person's work only to find out that it was the product of effort no greater than a child's most simple drawings.

You paid him? Wow. I feel bad for you.

Edit: After looking at his art.... Didn't anyone already see that he traced or just used the vectors in the first place? It's pretty obvious now that I look at what he's done, especially some of them. Basically all artists that make "canon/official looking" comics out there are made using vectors anyway? I don't see how this is such a big deal and I'm an artist myself, I know how wrong it is to steal art. I'm just an easy-going, open-minded one who tries to understand other people rather than blaming them for what they did wrong.

Perhaps it should have been noticed, but drawponies isn't by any means the only artist who tries to imitate the show's style (or I suppose in dp's case copy it in the more literal sense), perhaps most notably Veggie55 or PonyBerserker(?) imitating the comic's style. I simply thought he was able to imitate it extremely well. But I was wrong about that.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Tsaritsa Luna