Spike, Character or Plot Device

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Doctor Whooves had mre development with his conversation with Derpy than Spike ever had. He believe that science can explain magic and is determined to create magic with science and as an Earth Pony. That's a material for many fanfics, while Spike is just a dragon who doesn't want to be a dragon but instead he is Twilight's assistant and have a crush on Rarity. Pretty much no development since S1

maybe you should  go and read this topic, because Spike has a LOT, if not THE MOST character development of just about any character in the series.

https://mlpforums.com/topic/128423-one-sided-or-complex-characters-does-too-much-characterization-go-over-heads/

[Not Yellow Diamond 925]

 

 

maybe you should  go and read this topic, because Spike has a LOT, if not THE MOST character development of just about any character in the series.

 

That topic just further advanced the points as to why he is a Plot Device. You just confirmed my theory quite honestly.  

[Edgeworth1001 648]

The writers don't care about Spike and any amount of potential he has to grow as a character.

 

He has all this interesting stuff about him that they can work with, like his mysterious past, for example. But they never go anywhere further with that or anything. They never had him grow up as a character and instead write him off as some village idiot whose episodes either have him be completely stupid, an asshole, or more greedy than Scrooge McDuck and then gets forced morals handed to him. I'm sick and tired of Spike getting treated like he's Zack Ryder. He deserves much more than poor plots and forced morals but that's what he gets.

[The Awesome One 1,315]

I would not call him a plot device but even in his own episodes, all he does is do something bad and then learns that he was wrong and he has to say sorry to everyone. No real character development either because we don't have any clue at all as to where he came from. There was just one episode where he tags along with the dragons during their migration and that is about it.

[Buck Testa 5,505]

I want him to be a character

He deserves to be a character 

He has the potential to be a great character

the writers TREAT him as a plot device.

 

Hopefully some nice fanfic writers will give him the development I long for the little guy, cause I sure am not getting it from this latest episode. 

[WriteCodes46 178]

He's still a character, just a one-dimensional character. Rainbow Dash in The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone was a plot device, for example. Spike still behaves like a character that influences the plot (instead of just helping move it forward), it's just that his character is limited to being an abusive idiot. The latest episode is probably how the writers picture his whole character.

[guest243535531ty43 219]

Spike has great potential as a character, not only because his childlike and boyish nature starkly contrasts the other main characters who either know their role (the Mane 6) or who explore their role in a differing way (the CMC) but also because of his inner conflict that fits the show's overall idea.

 

Season 1 established Spike as a young, compassionate boy, depicted with his cute and innocent illusions of grandeur at the prospect of saving his crush in "A Dog and Pony Show" or his immature attitude over the idea of going to the Gala in "The Ticket Master". It however did little to develop him as a character beyond giving him identifiable traits and good potential. "Lesson Zero" further expanded upon Twilight and Spike's relationship in a meaningful way that made me see Spike as more than just Twilight's assistant as I had in the show's premiere but more as a family member.

 

"Dragon Quest" promised something very bold with Spike, however, by introducing him into a possible saga of self-exploration. He had to struggle with his inner nature, with his desires to be accepted by those he loved and by those like him, and with he sees himself as and who he wants to be. Unfortunately, the episode had several problems, the major being with how it just turned out with him dropping the struggle, simply accepting the prior life he had because of the outright disgust he held for the dragons' comportment--but it never related that contempt back to him so he never gained anything as a character.

 

MLP has the ability to investigate this relatable issue through him very well, fleshing him out on the level of, hopefully, Rarity.  And it is in MLP's grasp and theme to deal with them as the show has always been about individuality and bringing your unique talents to form beautiful things (ironically the gem statue in "Princess Spike" did a better job depicting this than Spike has throughout the series  :okiedokielokie: ).

 

But what they could have done through Spike, it seems they are doing for Discord. As much as I love Discord, he now has the role of attempting to strike the difficult and important balance between finding acceptance and finding oneself, such that you don't lose your individuality or hurt the people you care about. Discord's reformation arc thus far has spanned only a few episodes but has done more with this familiar dilemma than Spike has for it throughout the series. Spike has huge potential to make it heart-warming and exceptional because of his position as an outsider living amongst ponies and also his young age and innocent outlook on life could allow for a satisfying and somewhat elaborate Bildungsroman for this adorable dragon we all love.

 

It seems Spike is nothing but a husk of a character, allowing the writers to use him as they please.  I really wish for a future episode, perhaps "Brotherhooves Social" (Shining and Spike bonding over hoofball would be amazing if it came to fruition), to further consider Spike's initial doubts with himself, delving into that superficial introspection he went through in "Dragon Quest". This could result in him becoming his own character rather than one solely reliant on relationships with other ponies and who acts as the vessel to convey the humor and lesson of a poorly-didactic episode.

Edited June 21, 2015 by estoc

[ManaMinori 4,145]

 

Spike has great potential as a character, not only because his childlike and boyish nature starkly contrasts the other main characters who either know their role (the Mane 6) or explore their role in a different way (the CMC) but also because of his unique inner conflict that fits the show's overall idea. Season 1 established Spike as a young boy who truly cared about Twilight and his new friends' well-being, depicted with his cute and innocent illusions of grandeur at the prospect of saving his crush in "A Dog and Pony Show" or his immature attitude over the idea of going to the Gala in "The Ticket Master". It however did little to develop him as a character beyond giving him identifiable traits and good potential. "Lesson Zero" further developed Twilight and Spike's relationship in a meaningful way that made me see Spike as more than just Twilight's assistant as I had in the show's premiere but more as a family member.

 

"Dragon Quest" promised something very bold with Spike, however, introducing him to a possible saga of self-exploration and identity. He had to struggle with his inner nature, with his desires to be accepted by those he loved and by those like him, and with he sees himself as and who he wants to be. Unfortunately, the episode had several problems, the major being with how it just turned out with him dropping the struggle, simply accepting the prior life he had because of the outright disgust he held for the dragons' comportment--but it never related that contempt back to him so he never gained anything as a character.

 

MLP has the ability to investigate this relatable issue through him very well, fleshing him out on the level of, hopefully, Rarity. And it is in MLP's grasp and theme to deal with them as the show has always been about individuality and bringing your unique talents to form beautiful things (ironically the gem statue in "Princess Spike" did a better job depicting this than Spike has throughout the series  :okiedokielokie: ).

 

But what they could have done through Spike, it seems they are doing for Discord. As much as I love Discord, he now has the role of attempting to strike the difficult and important balance between finding acceptance and finding oneself, such that you don't lose your individuality or hurt the people you care about. Discord's reformation arc thus far has spanned only a few episodes but has done more with this familiar dilemma than Spike has for it throughout the series. Spike has huge potential to make it heart-warming and exceptional because of his position as an outsider living amongst ponies and also his young age and innocent outlook on life could allow for a satisfying and somewhat elaborate Bildungsroman for this adorable dragon we all love.

 

It seems Spike is nothing but a husk of a character, allowing the writers to use him as they please.  I really wish for a future episode, perhaps "Brotherhooves Social" (Shining and Spike bonding over hoofball would be amazing if it came to fruition), to further consider Spike's initial doubts with himself, delving into that superficial introspection he went through in "Dragon Quest", as a result making him his own character rather than a character that is solely reliant on relationships with other ponies and to act as the vessel to convey the humor and lesson of a poorly-didactic episode.

 

it'd be interesting if they did a Discord and Spike episode (have those two really interacted at all?) where Spike gets the brush off from his mane 6 friends, who might be too busy to make time for him (poor guy), and finds Discord, then confesses his desires of finding acceptance, without losing his individuality, since Discord's been given the same role.

[Not Yellow Diamond 925]

@@Nightmare Muffin,

 

Hey, I have a question for you. I'm curious, the link you posted that led to another topic. Why do you think that it proves that Spike is a character? I respect your opinion, i just want to hear it. I'm interested because i thought quite the opposite.   

[ManaMinori 4,145]

@@Nightmare Muffin,

 

Hey, I have a question for you. I'm curious, the link you posted that led to another topic. Why do you think that it proves that Spike is a character? I respect your opinion, i just want to hear it. I'm interested because i thought quite the opposite.   

Do you? I avoided replying to your previous comment, because you seemed convinced that the thread I provided a link to only served to cement your opinion on Spike, in contrast to my own. I can't really see you being interested in or respecting what opinion I have of him, that I haven't already posted in that linked thread.

[Not Yellow Diamond 925]

Do you? I avoided replying to your previous comment, because you seemed convinced that the thread I provided a link to only served to cement your opinion on Spike, in contrast to my own. I can't really see you being interested in or respecting what opinion I have of him, that I haven't already posted in that linked thread.

 

Why would you think such a thing? I read the topic starter, i didn't know i was suppose to read the rest. Sorry...

 

But of course i'd love to hear about it! I love hearing other's opinions. It's interesting to hear about different opinions, i'm always open to hear and I encourage you to share. I'd love to hear

 

And yes I'm aware it's your post. I just would like to give you a chance to add, reiderate, etc. So go ahead if you'd like

Edited June 21, 2015 by louisvillepride

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I for one like Spike as a character and I enjoy the episodes he's featured as a main character in.

[Conred 274]

As I said, his feelings of insecurity in Power Ponies and Equestria Games. 

 

What about going to find his roots in Dragon Quest?

 

 

These episodes didn't do any development. He was insecure in Power Ponies, then he was AGAIN insecure in Equestria Games AND he also was insecure AGAIN in Princess Spike (wanting to be a princess to be more respected)

 

He was greedy in Secret of My Excess AND Just for Sidekicks and AGAIN in Princess Spike. What development was that? Nothing changed about him and the way he percieve  things.

 

As an example of development i can give you Fluttershy and Discord. Fluttershy was so introvertic and shy that she was unable to make more friends, talk to old friends in assertive manner or even be a part of big gatherings.

Now she easily made more friends than other mane6:Ponytones,Bulk Biceps,Discord,Seabreeze and Treehugger

She become assertive enough in S5 to lecture Rainbow Dash and Discord.

And coming to the party full of pones is no longer bothering her, she was very happy and talkative at the Gala. Completely new character compared to S1.

Discord was a generic one shot villain in S2. Now he developed enough to become a main character and to help out Twilight when she needed aid. I doubt he will betray them or become jealous of their friends again in the future unlike Spike who doesn't learn his lessons.

[UnknownFry 169]

Spike is a character, but there is no great need to market him heavily which is why the show ignores him for the most part.

Edited June 21, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Justin_Case001 4,883]

Of all the characters, Spike has been handled the worst by the writers.  He was much better in the earlier episodes, but in recent times, he seems to be little more than comic relief and a screw up.  It's a shame, because he's a great character with lots of potential.  I, like many of you, wish to see a bit more maturity and development from the little guy.  Instead, every Spike spotlight can be condensed down to a gif of him greedily tapping his claws together with a maniacle grin on his face, and a caption reading, "Hehehe, how can I exploit this power for personal gain?"

[Shanks 10,816]

What about going to find his roots in Dragon Quest?

That episode seriously needs a follow up, Spike realizing he wasn't a monster was good but I would have liked to have seen a dragon in there that maybe wasn't like the others they have come into contact with so far. Spike seriously can't be the only dragon out there with an actual conscience, dragons in mythology have a wide variety of different personalities and motives with only certain dragons exhibiting the traits we have seen so far in dragons in MLP.

[Smurfenstein 94]

I have just finished watching Princess Spike. I have made up my mind that he is a plot device; if the plot needs him to be greedy, he will be. Insecure? You bet. Selfish? Eeyup.

 

In my previous post I stated I wasn't going to hold my breath on the thought of the writers doing more with him in the future, now I just don't think it will happen.

 

Although, in fairness, he does get a decent amount of characterisation in the comic books. For example, his adventure with Princess Celestia.

[Limeblossom 482]

In watching today's episode, I was extremely disheartened to see Spike left out of this show's overall return to consistency. I was hopeful in seeing how they reduced the abuse in other episodes that they would finally give him a good one, but the premise of this episode led me and many others to expect a typical Spike episode. We were not surprised, and that's precisely why it feels so wrong.

 

Spike's recent treatment from the writers has led me to question the overall integrity of the show and its morals. Being a non-pony character in a pony-dominated world, as well as a male in a world where females are more likely to have power, offers opportunity to explore a different perspective and develop a different kind of character. By instead turning one of its most prominent characters, one who could potentially relate to people who have dealt with being different by birth and not by choice, into a plot device, a comedic punching bag, and an immature fool, MLP:FIM has perpetuated a storm of unfortunate implications.

 

To show a prominent character sidelined and regressed in development while other characters improve, live successfully, and play admirable role models to the audience, solely on the fault of being different, is shockingly hypocritical to MLP's core individualist message. This kind of grossly negligent writing on a show where the message and the moral means everything deserves nothing short of absolute scorn.

 

I would absolutely hate to say that the show is ruined for me, and I won't. However, it absolutely breaks my heart to call a show that has made a considerable impact in my life hypocritical. It definitely earned it by turning what I believed to be honest oversight into a glaring blemish on an otherwise fantastic, if flawed, piece of entertainment.

 

After delivering so many great morals on the subjects of self-esteem, self-identity, and self-improvement, I'm going to start taking these things with a grain of salt until I see the writing staff has a full grasp of what they're implying here.

 

You're right, but I think the whole case about Spike began during season 4. During the current season he had so little screentime that he was considered a background character (even Twilight didn't bring him to the Gala while the rest brought others with them). And the new Spike episode didn't improve him.

 

It's not the first time some of us lost faith in the show. Look at Appleoosa's most wanted. The episode and Trouble Shoes in general destroyed the whole meaning around special talents and cutie marks, giving Starlight Glimmer new ammunition for her "cutie marks are bad" philosophy. And I won't see some characters in the same light as before again.

 

We should really question the writers and producers' sanity when it comes to character writings and the show's message.

[Wind Chaser 4,768]

You're right, but I think the whole case about Spike began during season 4. During the current season he had so little screentime that he was considered a background character (even Twilight didn't bring him to the Gala while the rest brought others with them). And the new Spike episode didn't improve him.

 

It's not the first time some of us lost faith in the show. Look at Appleoosa's most wanted. The episode and Trouble Shoes in general destroyed the whole meaning around special talents and cutie marks, giving Starlight Glimmer new ammunition for her "cutie marks are bad" philosophy. And I won't see some characters in the same light as before again.

 

We should really question the writers and producers' sanity when it comes to character writings and the show's message.

I found "Appleoosa" easier to swallow because Troubleshoes was, at the very least, a sympathetic character. Over time, the writers have been stripping away at whatever endearing and positive traits Spike had left. To be honest, in watching "Princess Spike", I really began to wonder if Spike was contributing anything to the show anymore and if it would have been more merciful to reduce his role in the show to something more like a background character.

 

"Appleoosa" was an example of the risks that come with bringing new ideas into the show, but "Princess" shows why being too safe is problematic.

 

I wouldn't call it a problem of "sanity". It's more that these writers, some of the most talented to have ever worked in television animation, are not being fair to their characters. When people identify so much with these characters, they're being unfair to their audience by doing this. It's just an inexcusable and willful lack of effort on the part of a character so many of us identify with that's annoying and appalling. And, as you surely understand, putting a character down just for being who and what he is does go against the meaning of the show.

 

It's all in being fair. It's just shocking when the fans can convincingly do a better job at that in story than the people paid to write the darn thing.

[Guest90210 3,568]

Meh. People take it too seriously. If you think about it, AJ and Fluttershy have had very little "development" throughout the series as well.

 

Spike was never destined to be a major character, as the show obviously focuses on the ponies. I love what the writers have done with Spike for most of his episodes. Just For Sidekicks, Spike at Your Service, Princess Spike, Dragon Quest, all episodes that are fantastic to me, yet people bash all of the time.

 

Who is Spike? A child dragon in a world full of ponies. He's full of adventure and aspirations. He wants to feel loved in a world that confuses him.

 

In Spike at Your Service, we see the adventure inside. He creates his own "Dragon Code" to feel like he matters, and to feel strong and empowered. I had a similar "code" when I was young. It's a good idea that gets overshadowed too often.

 

In the Princess Spike episode, we see what happens when Spike, a young dragon, is tasked with extremely crucial decisions. He managed to not panic as he probably would have before. Instead he held confidence in himself and went through with his mission. He may have failed, but at least he tried. It's a great story.

[Stary Dreams 87]

It really is quite the downgrade from the beginning of MLP to now, episode 101, after watching yesterday's episode I wasn't really quite sure what to feel... It's like the writers are trying to make Spike seem like a type of idiot, despite knowing he's proven himself to be intelligent and supportive to Twilight's goals as well as the other members of the Mane 6. Yeah I know he's a baby dragon and he still has to learn the ways of the world around him as well as the lessons of friendship, but he's not that idiotic.

        

  Yes the writers took the time on trying to shape his character into being round and dynamic but it's not quite showing as much as it should be. He's not exactly a character but he's not exactly background either.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Spike has become a classic case of Flanderization, in other words when a character is dumbed down to where they become a one dimensional character. It is something I really hate to say because Spike deserves much better than that but in nearly every recent Spike episode he serves little more purpose than as a joke character. It is not that I mind this being used occasionally but it is being overused and is superseding any sort of real character growth and development that can and should be happening with Spike. The writers have been beyond lazy with Spike and don't seem to try all that hard with him.

Flanderized? One-dimensional? In what way was Spike one-dimensional in the latest episode? This is a demonstrably false statement and ignores the entire premise of the episode. Spike starts off as a responsible and attentive servant, yet when given a taste of power, he becomes corrupted and selfish. He literally transforms from selfless to selfish over the course of the episode.

 

So no, he's hardly one-dimensional and I'd argue he's being written with as much thought he's ever been. Instead of whining about Spike's actions, think about what they mean instead. Why is Spike corrupted when given power? What does this say about his character, his desires, and his relationship with others?

 

These are questions that are brought up by these actions. To write this all off as lazy is just baffling to me.

That episode seriously needs a follow up, Spike realizing he wasn't a monster was good but I would have liked to have seen a dragon in there that maybe wasn't like the others they have come into contact with so far. Spike seriously can't be the only dragon out there with an actual conscience, dragons in mythology have a wide variety of different personalities and motives with only certain dragons exhibiting the traits we have seen so far in dragons in MLP.

Actually, Dragon Quest does have a follow-up: Spike At Your Service. It shows Spike struggling to identify with his own race (following the dragon code is an attempt to fit into his image of what a dragon ought to be) to the point where it becomes clear that his actions are entirely self-serving (ironic considering the title of the episode).

I have just finished watching Princess Spike. I have made up my mind that he is a plot device; if the plot needs him to be greedy, he will be. Insecure? You bet. Selfish? Eeyup.

In my previous post I stated I wasn't going to hold my breath on the thought of the writers doing more with him in the future, now I just don't think it will happen.

Although, in fairness, he does get a decent amount of characterisation in the comic books. For example, his adventure with Princess Celestia.

You misunderstand what a plot device is. When the story is literally about how a person is acting, they're not a plot device. Spike would be a plot device if he was greedy and that somehow led to problems for other people and this was all his character was ever used for.

 

Also, greedy, selfish, and insecure are all legitimate character flaws. In real life, people have more than one flaw. Come to think of it, those 3 characteristics are often found together, so I fail to see how Spike having all of them is somehow a bad thing.

[Not Yellow Diamond 925]

 

 

You misunderstand what a plot device is. When the story is literally about how a person is acting, they're not a plot device. Spike would be a plot device if he was greedy and that somehow led to problems for other people and this was all his character was ever used for. Also, greedy, selfish, and insecure are all legitimate character flaws. In real life, people have more than one flaw. Come to think of it, those 3 characteristics are often found together, so I fail to see how Spike having all of them is somehow a bad thing.

 

 

I agree as well as disagree with your point there, Yes, those are all VERY real issues but how many times have you seen him overcome an issue only to become a victim of it in the very next episode. And this happens with EVERY one of his problems, it is poor continuity and inconsistency. Spike is treated very poorly throughout the series, only needed when he HAS to be or there is no one better to make fool out of... He is sort of like a lone queen on a chess board. Say if you were playing chess and the only piece on the board was a queen. Well you can move that queen every which way and nothing is gained, nothing is lost. All this moving but it is permissable because nothing consequential happened. 

 

You see my point?

[Singe 2,111]

Spike has no long term direction except to go around in a circle. He has nothing to look forward too for his own future except to continue being a pony servant. The show already had him explore the normal life of a dragon and he decided to not pursue that course.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Singe

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

I agree as well as disagree with your point there, Yes, those are all VERY real issues but how many times have you seen him overcome an issue only to become a victim of it in the very next episode. And this happens with EVERY one of his problems, it is poor continuity and inconsistency. Spike is treated very poorly throughout the series, only needed when he HAS to be or there is no one better to make fool out of... He is sort of like a lone queen on a chess board. Say if you were playing chess and the only piece on the board was a queen. Well you can move that queen every which way and nothing is gained, nothing is lost. All this moving but it is permissable because nothing consequential happened. 

 

You see my point?

I see what you're saying, but I disagree. When you make a mistake in real life, it doesn't mean you will never make the same mistake again. Especially when we're talking about a kid.

 

Furthermore, I don't recall which other episode in the series Spike became addicted to power and abused it at other ponies' expense.

Spike has no long term direction except to go around in a circle. He has nothing to look forward too for his own future except to continue being a pony servant. The show already had him explore the normal life of a dragon and he decided to not pursue that course.

What's the problem with that? I could say the same about Fluttershy, how she tried being a fashion model but decided she was content caring for animals. If Spike enjoys being a servant, what's wrong with that?