Alicorns are NOT that OP

[Guest]

So a lot of people really seem to hate alicorn OCs and insist that they are OP (overpowered) as a reasoning for why they do not like them. Honestly though if you actually examine the show itself you can clearly see that alicorns are not really THAT OP based upon what the show itself establishes. I shall provide a few examples to back up my point:

 

• Apparently anyone can be turned into an Alicorn by other alicorns. So it's not like this unachievable thing that requires some kind of insane ritual to get to. It literally only appears to take the decision of other alicorns to make one into one. So it's clearly not a god status otherwise they wouldn't just appoint mortals to it all willy-nilly.
• Alicorns are not shown to be inherently god powered. It took Twilight the magic of 4 alicorns to fight the main villain in season 4. She also was not immune to the powers of Starlight either. On top of this, many non-alicorns have achieved a level of strength that made them more than a match for Celestia such as Chrysalis who did not need to use any other means beyond her natural power source: absorbing love. This effectively means a changeling could become stronger than Celestia. Sombra was seen a significant threat and he was just a unicorn.
• What exactly makes them more overpowered than a unicorn? They literally are just unicorns that can fly. Twilight really has not demonstrated any higher level of magic use that could not be explained away as she has been practicing all this time.
• Apparently the elements of harmony are stronger than Celestia.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 42,202]

Gotta agree with this. We have not seen much of anything to show that Alicorns are automatically these godlike, overpowered beings. We have seen plenty of adversaries that have been more than enough of a match for Alicorns. The power of 4 of them at once? Yeah, that's pretty powerful, but that is just strength in numbers. I am not exactly critical of OC's anyways but I have never had problems with Alicorn OC's at all, even if one is made more powerful than 100 stars put together. I am just like 'do what you wanna do'.

[IJoinedForPonies 126]

Well, Alicorns by nature are naturally adept at magic and harness far more power than a typical Unicorn. Sure a skilled Unicorn can put up a fight against an Alicorn, but I wouldn't expect it to win. When it comes to power display of Alicorns in the show, they are just hammered by lots of PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity), so I wouldn't sell them short by any means. I think the reasoning for all of this is because they are so powerful that they would ruin the point of the show, so they just make them sit on the sidelines most of the time. 

[Steve Piranha 29,496]

 

• What exactly makes them more overpowered than a unicorn? They literally are just unicorns that can fly. Twilight really has not demonstrated any higher level of magic use that could not be explained away as she has been practicing all this time.

 

AND earth pony strenght, don't forget earth pony strenght  :comeatus: . Yeah, alicorns are superior than the other tribes, but people tend to overexagerate their powers in fics, even plain unkillable  , while the show clearly showed they're anything but 

[reader8363 1,281]

what if the alicorn is older than celestia, powered by the alicorn amulet. just an idea

Edited July 27, 2015 by reader8363

[Guest]

 

 

Well, Alicorns by nature are naturally adept at magic

 

But we've seen that alicorns are not always crafted by nature. 

[Blue Moon 6,345]

Hi @Key Sharkz,

 

Your thread appears to be discussing MLP:FiM in some way, shape or form. As such, it has been sentenced to Show Discussion.

 

[IJoinedForPonies 126]

But we've seen that alicorns are not always crafted by nature. 

Whether they are natural Alicorns, or converted into an Alicorn, they are still well above any Unicorn.

[Sky Knight 1,172]

Alicorn's specialize in having more power than your typical Unicorn. They also have flight like a Pegasi and strength like a Earth pony. They're also deemed as Royalty probably because of how unique they are in the Pony race. But just because they have more room to hone their magic it doesn't make them invincible or over powered. It certainly gives them a leg up to a point where they have respectably more power than your average pony citizen. It's very fitting for the ruler of a race to have the power to defend its republic. A bit like a Mother Bear Protecting its Babies from the evils that lurks the world.  

Edited July 27, 2015 by Sky Knight

[P-Jay 1,987]

• Apparently anyone can be turned into an Alicorn by other alicorns. So it's not like this unachievable thing that requires some kind of insane ritual to get to. It literally only appears to take the decision of other alicorns to make one into one. So it's clearly not a god status otherwise they wouldn't just appoint mortals to it all willy-nilly.

but this has only happened twice, in like, 3000 years. for twilight and cadence. both had to prove themselves. who's to say that its up to celestia/luna/other alicorns to make other alicorns? it could be a godly voice that told celestia it was time. mortals became gods in greek mythology, and THEY were still treated just.

 

• Alicorns are not shown to be inherently god powered. It took Twilight the magic of 4 alicorns to fight the main villain in season 4. She also was not immune to the powers of Starlight either. On top of this, many non-alicorns have achieved a level of strength that made them more than a match for Celestia such as Chrysalis who did not need to use any other means beyond her natural power source: absorbing love. This effectively means a changeling could become stronger than Celestia. Sombra was seen a significant threat and he was just a unicorn.

sombra wasn't a unicorn, though. he was a shadow pony/dark pony, which are arguably much more dangerous then a normal unicorn.. somehow became immortal, and was generally just a prodigy at dark magic. look at emperor palpatine. its basically the same thing, only he had found out a way to live forever. who knows how long he had been honing his power?

 

and as for chrysalis, she had been slowly powering up for god knows how long. i forget, but it was something like a week to a month, yes? either way, had chrysalis just went up against celestia in the beginning, she would've surely lost.

 

starlight caught twilight off guard, simple as that. while starlight actually as able to get a clear shot, twilight barely had a half-second to defend. remember, you can know every martial art in the world, but it still wont save you from a knife in the back. also, twilight wasn't immune to starlight's spell because she had never dealt with this kind of magic before. if you can see, at the end of episode two, it was apparent that twilight was clearly superior in magic.

 

and you've forgotten that when twilight fought tirek, tirek had ALL THE MAGIC/STRENGTH/WING POWER of all the ponies in equestria, and twilight fought him to a stand still. and twilight only had alicorn magic. this means at the very least, the average alicorn is as powerful as 25% of all the population in equestria. which is insane.

 

AND tirek had DISCORD'S magic. and if anything can fight DISCORD to a stand-still, its OP'ed

 

• What exactly makes them more overpowered than a unicorn? They literally are just unicorns that can fly. Twilight really has not demonstrated any higher level of magic use that could not be explained away as she has been practicing all this time.

remember, in the everfree forest arc, when zecora needed 'alicorn' magic to complete her potion? no-one else could've produced it, except an alicorn. 

 

and id wager my computer that if you got an alicorn blast, and a normal unicorn blast to collide, alicorn magic would win. because alicorn magic, i think, is just about 'enlightened' unicorn magic. and i think you underestimate flight.

 

• Apparently the elements of harmony are stronger than Celestia.

apparently the infinity stones are stronger then thanos. theres always something stronger. no matter how OP'ed something is.

 

now, dont get me wrong, i like a good alicorn oc. but its just that some people choose alicorns because they merely want an OP'ed oc, and nothing more.

Edited July 27, 2015 by PeytonJay

[Daring_Do 552]

I agree alicorns aren't anywhere near as powerful as folks say they are. I even dispute whether Twilight actually gained any magical power from her alicornization or if she's just as powerful as she used to be. (unless S4 says she gained power, in which case I forgot)

 

BUT

 

What they *ARE* is super rare. So even if they aren't that strong, there's still that risk of "Sueishness" around them, y'know?

Edited July 27, 2015 by Daring_Do

[Buck Testa 5,505]

People are still whining about Alicorn O.c's? Of course this is probably coming from people who believe "Mary sue" is a valid critique and that characters need to "relate to the audience" and that anything deemed "overpowered" is automatically a bad character. When will these people stop being sheep and think for themselves? 

[Cleverclover 1,526]

To be quite honest, I would honestly consider the fact that becoming an alicorn grants instant nobility as well as (implied) instant longevity to be "overpowered." That has nothing to do with how powerful they actually are. Those two things alone are enough to make the alicorn race significantly superior to any other race. 

 

 

 

So it's not like this unachievable thing that requires some kind of insane ritual to get to.

 

Uhhh, yeah, it actually is virtually unachievable considering how few alicorns exist. In fact, I'd definitely be willing to bet there have been dozens of worthy candidates for ascension throughout equine history (like Starswirl, for instance), but they probably weren't insanely overprivileged like Twilight was. 

 

Also, there's also still no indication that earth ponies can become alicorns. 

 

 

 

Twilight really has not demonstrated any higher level of magic use that could not be explained away as she has been practicing all this time.

 

Her ridiculous, deus-ex-machina breezy spell suggests otherwise. Knowing, of course, that things like an "age spell" and "weather spell" are possible for alicorns (as suggested by Magic Duel), how far off can a spell that completely transforms one species to another on a presumably permanent basis be from that? 

[Guest]

 

 

Whether they are natural Alicorns, or converted into an Alicorn, they are still well above any Unicorn.

 

My point is that anyone could then just become one. If one can make an Alicorn, then it's not unfeasible to say that one could craft one more powerful than an Alicorn.

 

but this has only happened twice, in like, 3000 years. for twilight and cadence. both had to prove themselves.

 

How are we certain of this?

 

 

 

who's to say that its up to celestia/luna/other alicorns to make other alicorns? it could be a godly voice that told celestia it was time. mortals became gods in greek mythology, and THEY were still treated just.

 

But no one is worshiping Alicorns, so they are not gods.

 

 

 

sombra wasn't a unicorn, though.

 

It blatantly said he was a unicorn in the episode.

 

and as for chrysalis, she had been slowly powering up for god knows how long. i forget, but it was something like a week to a month, yes? either way, had chrysalis just went up against celestia in the beginning, she would've surely lost.

 

But she was able to achieve so using only her natural power source, that's my point. She was able to overpower an Alicorn using only natural means.

 

 

 

starlight caught twilight off guard, simple as that.

 

She removed the talent of an Alicorn. Off guard or not that kind of proves that her power creates no kind of barrier against normal unicorn magic. Twilight's superiority in magic though is BLATANTLY explained as she learned it and it was through the power of friendship as well. It never attributes her talent to being an alicorn, ever.

 

 

 

and you've forgotten that when twilight fought tirek, tirek had ALL THE MAGIC/STRENGTH/WING POWER of all the ponies in equestria, and twilight fought him to a stand still. and twilight only had alicorn magic. this means at the very least, the average alicorn is as powerful as 25% of all the population in equestria. which is insane.

 

Or that the magic she possessed was from 2 beings whom had been training in magic for well over a thousand years. Alicorn or not, a thousand years is a long time to become a master. The power of their magic may have little to do with being an Alicorn and have more to do with them having over a thousand years to master magic on top of two other magic masters who have practiced their whole life.

 

 

 

AND tirek had DISCORD'S magic. and if anything can fight DISCORD to a stand-still, its OP'ed

 

And why is that?

 

 

 

remember, in the everfree forest arc, when zecora needed 'alicorn' magic to complete her potion? no-one else could've produced it, except an alicorn. 

 

This could simply be because most Alicorns we know are masters of magic to the point where their magic is more potent due to extensive training. If Twilight can achieve Alicorn rank through training that means Alicorns are achieved through years of practice and study. And I'm sorry but if you EARN something through training, study and hard work that's not OP, that's progression.

 

 

 

and id wager my computer that if you got an alicorn blast, and a normal unicorn blast to collide, alicorn magic would win. because alicorn magic, i think, is just about 'enlightened' unicorn magic. and i think you underestimate flight.

 

Not necessarily true. It would depend on the skill level of the Unicorn.

 

 

 

What they *ARE* is super rare. So even if they aren't that strong, there's still that risk of "Sueishness" around them, y'know?

 

Maybe not for long. 

 

 

Uhhh, yeah, it actually is virtually unachievable considering how few alicorns exist.

 

That we know of. In season 1 we were under the belief there were only two, then we discover a third, then a fourth is made in season 3.

[P-Jay 1,987]

i love me a good debate.

 

How are we certain of this?

cadance was turned into an alicorn, the same way twilight was, after realizing the magic of love. the exact date this happened was not specified, at least, i dont think so.

 

But no one is worshiping Alicorns, so they are not gods.

if no-one worshiped zeus, or jesus, would that make them not gods?

 

It blatantly said he was a unicorn in the episode.

it was revealed in FIENDship is magic that sombra is actually a different race called a shadow/dark unicorn.

 

But she was able to achieve so using only her natural power source, that's my point. She was able to overpower an Alicorn using only natural means.

meaning if chrysalis hadn't prepared, she would've lost. she had been gaining power for a while now, and who's to say that we could call that power hers?

 

it was from shinning, originally. and the fight between her and celestia was basically getting two fighters, and giving one of them armor, weapons, and other things. 

 

She removed the talent of an Alicorn. Off guard or not that kind of proves that her power creates no kind of barrier against normal unicorn magic. Twilight's superiority in magic though is BLATANTLY explained as she learned it and it was through the power of friendship as well. It never attributes her talent to being an alicorn, ever.

alicorn magic doesn't activate on it's own, it does bear similarities to normal magic. how could twilight have possibly defended against a spell she had never encountered before, much less barely saw it coming? 

 

and take into consideration that twilight could win, almost effortlessly in a fair fight, dispute starlight saying 'iv studied that spell for years' implying that she studies all her other spells just as much.

 

and even then, twilight might not even need to attempt using alicorn magic. normal magic, with alicorn-level reserves, are guaranteed to be much stronger then usual.

 

now, im not saying that if twilight wasn't an alicorn, she would've lost. im just saying that the fight might've been a BIT harder if twilight wasn't given alicornship

 

Or that the magic she possessed was from 2 beings whom had been training in magic for well over a thousand years. Alicorn or not, a thousand years is a long time to become a master. The power of their magic may have little to do with being an Alicorn and have more to do with them having over a thousand years to master magic on top of two other magic masters who have practiced their whole life.

who's to say they've been training this whole time? luna was imprisoned on the moon, so that might be a possibility for her, but how often do you hear that a king's been training? 

 

cadence, and celestia both had to run empires. so i can say that at least luna MIGHT be stronger. 

 

either way, it still meant that unless luna was as powerful as tirek, which wouldn't make sense, since they could've just fought tirek, the alicorns just...had that kind of power. which is once again demonstrated by the fact that twilight beat tirek to a stand still. celestia and cadence didnt train, so...

 

And why is that?

...dude. its discord. the reality-warping unkillable embodiment of chaos.

 

he's op'ed in itself. and tirek was stronger. and then twilight fought till a stand still. 

 

tirek had all the magic in equestria, plus discord's magic. and discord's been around since the beginning of time, most likely, improving on his own respectable magic. and if three alicorn's can match that kind of magic, even IF they were training for a thousand years, then alicorns are indeed op'ed.

 

This could simply be because most Alicorns we know are masters of magic to the point where their magic is more potent due to extensive training. If Twilight can achieve Alicorn rank through training that means Alicorns are achieved through years of practice and study. And I'm sorry but if you EARN something through training, study and hard work that's not OP, that's progression.

what im saying here, is that its called 'alicorn magic' for a reason.

 

no matter how you cut it, here, it would seem that only an alicorn can cast this particular type of magic. and even if some other pony could, it would either take a lifetime of study, or insane amount of dedication or being a prodigy.

 

look a twilight. she's an excellent example. she struggled to get the alicorn magic right, and even then, it wasn't a lot. barely a beam an inch wide. and twilight is known as one of the most magical unicorns since starswirl. might even be better. she was even an alicorn when she cast it, too. meaning that alicorn magic is completely different from normal unicorn magic, or else twilight would've had no problem casting it.

 

Not necessarily true. It would depend on the skill level of the Unicorn.

once again, look at starlight. she studied as hard as twilight in magic, but yet, never produced alicorn magic, nor did she even compare. why do you think she was so happy to get the cutie mark of an alicorn? because she thought that she might get alicorn magic out of the mix.

 

i personally think that being an alicorn means a much better magical reserve, along with flight and earth pony strength. along with alicorn magic, if the player decides.

[Guest]

 

 

cadance was turned into an alicorn, the same way twilight was, after realizing the magic of love. the exact date this happened was not specified, at least, i dont think so.

 

Where was this established? She was an Alicorn in high school apparently according to the comics.

 

 

 

if no-one worshiped zeus, or jesus, would that make them not gods?

 

I would say that I find it odd that apparently there are gods living among ponies whom are not worshiped in the slightest. Does that not strike you as odd? If they truly were gods, you'd think ponies would worship them because that seems to be the trend in real life. All powerful being shows up and demonstrates power, people worship it.

 

 

 

it was revealed in FIENDship is magic that sombra is actually a different race called a shadow/dark unicorn.

 

Ah, I'm not familiar with that comic. Then again the canon-ness of the comics is debatable considering the comic creators do not work in the same studio as the show creators and I highly doubt they are given information beforehand.

 

 

 

meaning if chrysalis hadn't prepared, she would've lost. she had been gaining power for a while now, and who's to say that we could call that power hers?   it was from shinning, originally. and the fight between her and celestia was basically getting two fighters, and giving one of them armor, weapons, and other things. 

 

More or less meaning that her biological design gives her the ability to surpass a "god". I would consider that a very strange occurrence wouldn't you?

 

 

 

and take into consideration that twilight could win, almost effortlessly in a fair fight, dispute starlight saying 'iv studied that spell for years' implying that she studies all her other spells just as much.

 

But there is no certainty that Twilight was capable of such a spell due to being an Alicorn. It's very possible she's just better at learning.

 

 

 

...dude. its discord. the reality-warping unkillable embodiment of chaos.

 

We actually are never really given a full demonstration of the strength of Discord's power. He is a "spirit" of chaos. Not a God.

 

 

I think ultimately there is no definitive evidence to point one way or the other of Alicorns being this god-tier of magic. Probably best to agree to disagree.

[P-Jay 1,987]

ah, im too lazy. ill give you this one, but ill still think that the majority of OP'ed OC's are alicorns.

[Guest]

ah, im too lazy. ill give you this one, but ill still think that the majority of OP'ed OC's are alicorns.

Well that may be because of the OCs themselves and not inherently because they're an Alicorn. I think we can agree there. Plenty of people give their characters insane OP powers without it being relevant to being an Alicorn.

[P-Jay 1,987]

but most of the time, in order to make said powers make sense, alicornship is needed. XD

[GuyNamedEarl 1,332]

I've noticed that alicorns can be defeated by normal ponies and aren't that much powerful than other ponies/creatures.

[Manman20x6 359]

Where was this established? She was an Alicorn in high school apparently according to the comics..

 

There's a book called "Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell" which explains Cadance's origins. She was turned into an Alicorn by Celestia after defeating an evil witch.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Alicorn is OP. Power of all ponies in Equestria plus Discord as a bonus vs 4 in 1 Alicorn power = tide. Get it?

That why Alicorn will become a ruler because they are the most powerful ponies.

 

About a exception... the most powerful wizard in equestria is not an alicorn... a unicorn - Starwirl

[Justin_Case001 4,934]

• Apparently anyone can be turned into an Alicorn by other alicorns. So it's not like this unachievable thing that requires some kind of insane ritual to get to. It literally only appears to take the decision of other alicorns to make one into one. So it's clearly not a god status otherwise they wouldn't just appoint mortals to it all willy-nilly.

I agree with your thesis, and with all of your points but this one.  I may get exploded at by a few people for this, but I do not accept that Celestia in fact transformed Twilight into an alicorn.  I believe that such an act would be a personal violation, as it was not consensual or given permission.  I believe that Twi's transformation, and the transformation of all non-alicorns into alicorns, is something that comes from within.  And it's unbelievably rare, granted.  If any alicorn could turn any other pony into an alicorn, then it seems to me that they wouldn't be nearly so rare.  Why wouldn't Twilight, or Celestia for that matter, just turn all of the mane 6 into alicorns?  Because they don't "deserve" it?  Because they couldn't "handle" it?  Those don't seem like viable answers to me.  In my opinion, it just doesn't hold up to say that the decision rests in somepony else's hooves.  What gives Celestia, or any alicorn, the sole right to decide who they transform?  No, the only thing that makes sense to me is that it's an internal transformation.

 

I definitely agree that alicorns are not necessarily, or by some arbitrary definition, more magically powerful than unicorns.  I refute all claims that Twilight's magical power got a sudden increase when she transformed.  She's much more powerful now than early on, yes.  That's because she has been studying and practicing magic the whole time.  It's what she does.  But alicorns are not necessarily more powerful than unicorns.  Case in point--Starswirl was a unicorn.

[SolyWack 482]

<p>

 

So a lot of people really seem to hate alicorn OCs and insist that they are OP (overpowered) as a reasoning for why they do not like them. Honestly though if you actually examine the show itself you can clearly see that alicorns are not really THAT OP based upon what the show itself establishes. I shall provide a few examples to back up my point:

 

• Apparently anyone can be turned into an Alicorn by other alicorns. So it's not like this unachievable thing that requires some kind of insane ritual to get to. It literally only appears to take the decision of other alicorns to make one into one. So it's clearly not a god status otherwise they wouldn't just appoint mortals to it all willy-nilly.
• Alicorns are not shown to be inherently god powered. It took Twilight the magic of 4 alicorns to fight the main villain in season 4. She also was not immune to the powers of Starlight either. On top of this, many non-alicorns have achieved a level of strength that made them more than a match for Celestia such as Chrysalis who did not need to use any other means beyond her natural power source: absorbing love. This effectively means a changeling could become stronger than Celestia. Sombra was seen a significant threat and he was just a unicorn.
• What exactly makes them more overpowered than a unicorn? They literally are just unicorns that can fly. Twilight really has not demonstrated any higher level of magic use that could not be explained away as she has been practicing all this time.
• Apparently the elements of harmony are stronger than Celestia.

I havent seen a post like this in a while. I love the topics that have definitive points I can CRUSH. Ooo my inner debate team is coming out.

 

From the top:

 

1)All willy-nilly? As far as we know there has been two ascensions in the last 1000+ years. The PRINCESS OF THE CRYSTAL EMPIRE in the Sombra issue of Fiendship is Magic wasnt even an Alicorn, she was still a unicorn.

And I dont know about you, but that cross-dinensional plane (plain?) seems likes the perfect definition of "insane ritual".

 

2)You pretty much shot yourself in the foot with your own post. "It took the power of four Alicorns". Yeah your right. 4 Alicorns = every other pony in Equestria + embodiment of chaos. Thats pretty d*mn powerful, especially considering 2 of those Alicorns were arguably not even full-power Alicorns.

And no ordinary changeling could beat Celestia, thats like saying worker ant = queen ant. Crysalis was already powerful, and all that love (at a wedding) would only amplify it.

 

3)Did you not see how hard Twilight was trying to contain all that Alicorn energy in the finale? She literally teleported without thinking about it. Considering Magic usually requires concentration, magic becoming a passive ability is a lot stronger than unicorn magic.

 

She also turned 6 ponies into breezies. Changing entire biological creatures into another one with 0% memory loss is what i would call powerful magic. Twilight had trouble turning an apple into an orange as a unicorn.

 

4)Well this doesnt even need argument. Of course they are. Is the Teseract not stronger than Thor?

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Why wouldn't Twilight, or Celestia for that matter, just turn all of the mane 6 into alicorns?  Because they don't "deserve" it?

 

Actually, yes. At least that's what we're pretty much led to believe.

 

The mane five aren't good enough and never will be good enough to be granted ascendance. 

Edited July 28, 2015 by Cleverclover