Three reasons why Sunset Shimmer does not belong in FiM

[Cleverclover 1,526]

I realize that many want to see Sunset Shimmer return to Equestria and insert herself into FiM, and that the show staff are actually considering this. However, I feel the need to point out that this is simply not feasible for the following reasons: 

 

 

1. It's way too late for a mane seven 

 

If Sunset ever did return to the show, what role would she take in the show? Knowing of course that she left everything behind after exiling herself, she presumably has no family to speak of, nor even any home to speak of. What would she do once she returned, besides perhaps becoming Celestia's student again? 

 

There aren't really a whole lot of options for her, especially if the staff wants her to be a recurring character on the show. She's obviously not going to end up becoming a character who only makes occasional appearances, especially if they make her return a massive event. In short, there simply doesn't seem to be any other role for her besides the mane seventh. And after five seasons, it's way too late for a mane seven. It's simply way too late for her to be thrust into the seat of a main character without feeling like an overly forced addition to the show. 

 

 

2. The mane five do not know her

 

Outside of anything Twilight may have told them, the mane five do not know Sunset Shimmer as anything more than the thief who stole her crown in the first film. They have no relationship with her whatsoever, and even Twilight's own relationship with her cannot compare to that of the mane five. 

 

This is an issue because the mane six are as close as friends can possibly be, and a bond like that only comes from spending so much time with each other that their feelings of friendship gradually transition into feelings of family. The mane five have no such bond with Sunset Shimmer, and they simply cannot develop one as quickly as they would have to. She would simply be the odd one out: six really close friends and one who is just getting there, but never truly will. 

 

 

3. She hasn't earned what the mane six have earned

 

There may be seven thrones surrounding the map in Twilight's castle, but the last one belongs only to Spike. Sunset does not have her own seat, and that's certainly not the only thing she doesn't have that the mane six have earned over the course of show. She was never an Element bearer, she has no role in defending Equestria, and these aren't things that can simply be gifted to her on a whim. 

 

 

So I'm just saying, if the staff ever did try to bring Sunset Shimmer back, I don't have the slightest clue how they would make it work. And ultimately, I don't believe it can. 

 

 

 

 

 

[EmeraldSkies 93]

I'm a huge Shimmy fan (points to awful signature below), and I have to say that I agree. She seems put in the human world, and it would be wise to keep her there because she understands the magic as seen in FG. Not to mention that making her canon would also cause a lot fan rage.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,770]

I sadly agree with this. It just would not work out in the end I don't think, unless they made her a permanent resident of Equestria. My issue with this would be the fact that it would make Equestria Girls canon, which as far as I know, it isn't. As much as I enjoy the movies, I do NOT think they should ever be canon to FiM. That would just cause too many questions and it would definitely over-complicate things, plus the idea of 'Equestria Girls' being canon to 'My Little PONY' is a troubling thought. They need to keep both of these things on their own tracks. And if they introduced her without using Equestria Girls as a basis, then that would be weird on another level.

 

I really like Sunset Shimmer, but her being in FiM is not ideal. 

[Red Cedar 1,408]

The mistake a lot of people make as far as the Equestria Girls movies go is thinking that anyone other than Sunset Shimmer is the main character. Those movies are part of her overarching narrative towards redemption from hitting rock bottom. The logical conclusion to them is when she is ready to face the demons of her past and return home.

 

Does that means she's going to get a seat at the round table in Twilight's castle? No, not necessarily, nor even that she's going to be able to immediately cultivate a relationship with the pony versions of her human friends, but having her return and reintegrate would be the best way to cap the whole thing off and I see no better way to do that than to at least make her a recurring character in FiM.

 

(Or put her in the movie.)

I sadly agree with this. It just would not work out in the end I don't think, unless they made her a permanent resident of Equestria. My issue with this would be the fact that it would make Equestria Girls canon, which as far as I know, it isn't. As much as I enjoy the movies, I do NOT think they should ever be canon to FiM. That would just cause too many questions and it would definitely over-complicate things, plus the idea of 'Equestria Girls' being canon to 'My Little PONY' is a troubling thought. They need to keep both of these things on their own tracks. And if they introduced her without using Equestria Girls as a basis, then that would be weird on another level.

 

I really like Sunset Shimmer, but her being in FiM is not ideal. 

 

The producers never once said Equestria Girls was not canon. They said the tv series would not directly reference the movies, and they haven't, no matter what a bunch of fans getting their undies in a twist over a background appearance of Flash Sentry say. You will notice that the reverse is not true, that the movies reference the show constantly, and there is still the nasty problem of one lone pony in a dimension she doesn't belong in.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,770]

The mistake a lot of people make as far as the Equestria Girls movies go is thinking that anyone other than Sunset Shimmer is the main character. Those movies are part of her overarching narrative towards redemption from hitting rock bottom. The logical conclusion to them is when she is ready to face the demons of her past and return home.

 

Does that means she's going to get a seat at the round table in Twilight's castle? No, not necessarily, nor even that she's going to be able to immediately cultivate a relationship with the pony versions of her human friends, but having her return and reintegrate would be the best way to cap the whole thing off and I see no better way to do that than to at least make her a recurring character in FiM.

 

(Or put her in the movie.)

 

The producers never once said Equestria Girls was not canon. They said the tv series would not directly reference the movies, and they haven't, no matter what a bunch of fans getting their undies in a twist over a background appearance of Flash Sentry say. You will notice that the reverse is not true, that the movies reference the show constantly, and there is still the nasty problem of one lone pony in a dimension she doesn't belong in.

That is the thing, the movies have never been properly referenced at all. If they are canon, you would think they would like to tie the two together in the show proper, but that only happens in the movies, which we see absolutely no results from the movies in the proper show. That sounds pretty non-canon to me. Either way, even if the movies are somehow canon (which has also never been stated), then as long as they keep doing what they are doing NOW, then I am fine with that. 

[Malinter 3,064]

I sadly agree with this. It just would not work out in the end I don't think, unless they made her a permanent resident of Equestria. My issue with this would be the fact that it would make Equestria Girls canon, which as far as I know, it isn't. As much as I enjoy the movies, I do NOT think they should ever be canon to FiM. That would just cause too many questions and it would definitely over-complicate things, plus the idea of 'Equestria Girls' being canon to 'My Little PONY' is a troubling thought. They need to keep both of these things on their own tracks. And if they introduced her without using Equestria Girls as a basis, then that would be weird on another level.

 

I really like Sunset Shimmer, but her being in FiM is not ideal. 

 

Flash Sentry is canon, they made him appear for 10 seconds just to troll the haters XD

Edited October 27, 2015 by Malinter

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,770]

Flash Sentry is canon, they made him appear for 10 seconds just to troll the haters XD

A funny troll by the producers does not provide canonocity (word I made up just now) for the movies, BUT, it was still a funny troll nonetheless. XD

[ggg-2 3,553]

In the original storyline for Friendship Games, they had Sunset homesick for Equestria but they changed it, presumably as to not make her seem ungrateful for her new life and happy ending she earned.

[Malinter 3,064]

If shimmer was added to the show, she wouldn't be the stay in ponyville kind of pony anyway. Equestria would be different from the way it was when she left it. She'd appear for maybe one episode tops. But they might be able to use her in another season if they did do that

Edited October 27, 2015 by Malinter

[Mez 244]

Between Equestria and the Human World, only equestria has magic. The human world could do without it.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Flash Sentry is canon, they made him appear for 10 seconds just to troll the haters XD

That's not how that works. He's the same character that appeared in the pony segment of EQG1. If Twilight Sparkle hadn't gone through a portal and turning into a human and no mention was made of Equestria in EQG then I'd accept this argument but FiM and EQG are definitively canon with each other.

you don't have to acknowledge it but that's not what canon means. Equestria Girls happened in the same universe, in the same time line, with the same characters as the show at the very beginning of the film. The main character of the film was Twilight Sparkle, the Alicorn Princess that stars in the show My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. There is absolutely not arguing this fact.

 

If you want to ignore EQG then that's fine but until it is given the Highlander 2 treatment it IS canon.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Malinter 3,064]

That's not how that works. He's the same character that appeared in the pony segment of EQG1. If Twilight Sparkle hadn't gone through a portal and turning into a human and no mention was made of Equestria in EQG then I'd accept this argument but FiM and EQG are definitively canon with each other.

you don't have to acknowledge it but that's not what canon means. Equestria Girls happened in the same universe, in the same time line, with the same characters as the show at the very beginning of the film. The main character of the film was Twilight Sparkle, the Alicorn Princess that stars in the show My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. There is absolutely not arguing this fact.

 

If you want to ignore EQG then that's fine but until it is given the Highlander 2 treatment it IS canon.

 

But they picked Flash Sentry to mock the haters XD. It doesn't make it EqD canon, but is a subtle hint to say "it happened" XD.  After all Twilight doesn't react to him all but Flash looks back before he leaves, just so you can't mistake who he is.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

That is the thing, the movies have never been properly referenced at all. If they are canon, you would think they would like to tie the two together in the show proper, but that only happens in the movies, which we see absolutely no results from the movies in the proper show. That sounds pretty non-canon to me.

 

Exactly.

 

And not only has Equestria Girls not been referenced in the show, it's actually been flat-out contradicted as well. 

[J. Brony 313]

While I do agree with you 100% that Sunset Shimmer should remain in the EQG setting, I did want to elaborate one on of the points you made:

 

She was never an Element bearer. 

 

I think in a very subtle way she has become one.  The five elements wielded by the other members of the Mane 6, as well as their human counterparts, all tie into virtues.  But Twilight's element, the element of magic, is sort of the odd one out.  Sure it exists in Equestria, thus it isn't out of place there, but, as the events of Friendship Games proved, there is no magic in the human world apart from that which Sunset unleashed herself.

 

The Humane 6 were able to activate the Elements of Harmony and defeat Sunset Shimmer at the end of the first movie because all 6 elements were represented.  But in Friendship Games, Princess Twilight was absent and "Sci-Twi" was present.  Sci-Twi was curious about Equestrian magic but had no experience with it whatsoever.  The only person in that world who actually did was Sunset Shimmer.  And during her confrontation with Midnight Sparkle, I think that Sunset Shimmer became the Humane 6's element of magic and was able to unite with the others to activate the Elements of Harmony.

 

This, more than anything else, is why I think it's best that Sunset Shimmer remain in the EQG setting.  There she is part of the Mane 6 (or Humane 6 if you prefer), taking the place of Twilight Sparkle, not just as an element bearer, but also the main character.

 

 

And not only has Equestria Girls not been referenced in the show, it's actually been flat-out contradicted as well. 

 

 

I was unaware of this.  Can you please elaborate?

Edited October 27, 2015 by J. Brony

[Silver Stream. 708]

I am a huge Sunset Shimmer fan, but even I have to agree she shouldn't stay in Equestria but I will not oppose to her visiting to make amends. And honestly people?......I'd say EQG is canon......and here's why:

 

Every happens within the same timeline. The main character within two movies was Twilight Sparkle from Equestria, the storyline behind Sunset Shimmer was that she was a student of Celestia's before we were introduced to Twilight. Plus.....in the third movie, we pretty much get a spoiler about Season 5 finale which also supports things happening within the same timeline. Flash Sentry has made an appearance within the show in "Three's a crowd" despite the fact he came out of no where in the movie just to hint his appearance as a human. The only reason why I wouldn't support Sunset in FiM magic is because she possesses the same role as Twilight. 

 

And get this: let's say the movie wasn't originally canon? Push aside all that supports it might be and say EQG has nothing to do with FiM and there is no way they can tie into the series. Why bother to redeem Sunset Shimmer and make her one of the most likable characters after executing her so poorly in the first movie? The ending of EQG marks the ending to her as well. There's no way the writers would put so much effort into a character if she wasn't canon to their main money maker: FiM. They created her as a very important character...a counterpart to Twilight which was symbolized in the last movie when you saw both stars at the end. 

 

I don't think Sunset should stay in Equestria....but I do support her being a guest star for FiM. The deleted scene does sparks a hint that she may someday too. The writers wouldn't reveal a deleted scene like that for no reason unless they want the fans to know that yes...Sunset still hasn't forgotten about Equestria and this is how she sometimes feel. But they didn't include that in the movie because it had nothing to do with that at all. 

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

 

Wonderful. I agree 100% with that post.

 

But if you would allow my dear Clever, i would also put my own rant on this subject.

 

In EQG she basically has taken over as the Humane 6's Twilight. The problem with her returning to Equestria would be two-fold. First off it would anger the fans off who were otherwise able to just avoid the existence of EQG if they wanted. And second, because she is just Twilight, she'd offer nothing to the group.

 

Now, how would she actually interact with the mane 6? There would be no tension at all, since Twilight will reassure them, that she is a changed mare and they where not even there, to know how evil she actually was, because i think Twily barely talks about her. That entire portion of her character (the one they made a song out of) would evaporate because literally no one would or even give a hoof. And if they do try and make them overly suspicious it will just come off as forced And the few that could, Celestia and Twilight, forgave her.

 

So the mane 6 would instantly accept her. And she doesn't really have any special interactions with the mane 6 in EQG. She'd just be subverted to Twilight 2.0 only with less going for her. She'll be pure dead weight on the group and pretty much most episodes you could write with her could've had Twilight in there instead.

[Chronamut 355]

they did complicate this in the third movie. In the third movie when she transforms SHE becomes the element of magic - and the human mane 5 assist her - which means that while the crown may not have answered to her in the first movie, something has changed to allow her to NOW - I mean human twilight put on the crown and it turned HER into a demon. Sunset shimmer and twilight sparkle I believe are meant to be like 2 sides of the same coin - sunset being forceful where twilight is shy.

 

It could very well be that twilight will have need of her.. haha they should do a dragonball z and have them fuse together into one super being - sunlight sparkle

 

sunset shimmer can always fill in the role of twilight when twilight is too busy doing princessly things

Edited October 28, 2015 by Chronamut

[BPCannon 193]

Either she's happy in the human world with her current friends - likely. Or still homesick and ends up returning to equestria, in which case there's no reason for her to go to Ponyville, assuming as a former student of Celestia she was most likely originally from Canterlot as Twi was, homesick would mean returning home, with perhaps an occasional visit to her only friend in Ponyville, Pony Twilight

 

I would assume she had no close family or freinds before she left though, otherwise leaving in the first place would have been a much bigger issue for her. So don't see why she would leave the friends she has now

 

A rare visit through the portal shouldn't be out of the question though

Edited October 28, 2015 by BPCannon

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I don't know why people assume that SS has to be a part of the mane 6, if she DOES (Hopefully) come back to Equestria. She could just as easily be handed over to Luna as her apprentice, or interact with Gilda, or Trixie, Flim and Flam, or The CMC, Spike, Coco Pommel, Sassy Saddles, Trenderhoof, the Appleoosans, Zecora, and the list goes on.

[Chronamut 355]

oh come on, she could come back as the princess of ketchup and mustard!

Edited October 28, 2015 by Chronamut

[Mesme Rize 15,687]

oh come on, she could come back as the princess of ketchup and mustard!

 

Strange. And i always thought her hair was made out of bacon.

[Chronamut 355]

no wonder the men were all over her - just stow some hotdogs in there and you got the perfect superbowl girlfriend snack bar

[Silver Stream. 708]

I don't know why people assume that SS has to be a part of the mane 6, if she DOES (Hopefully) come back to Equestria. She could just as easily be handed over to Luna as her apprentice, or interact with Gilda, or Trixie, Flim and Flam, or The CMC, Spike, Coco Pommel, Sassy Saddles, Trenderhoof, the Appleoosans, Zecora, and the list goes on.

 

If you don't mind, Nightmare Muffin, I'd like to expand on this because you do make a good point. However, despite my elaboration on this theory, I still believe she should remain in the human world. As Hypnosparkle said....Sunset would pretty muchbe  subverted. I don't think the writers would put so much work in for Sunset just to have her take 5 steps back into being a background pony who'd pop up in major events despite the strong possibility she'd have a important role as either a Princess, or leader of another group. 

 

What is common among shows are counterpart groups. The main protagonists will encounter a problem in which they cannot be everywhere at once....or they'd need help. And that's when supporting characters who are potentially counterparts for the mane 6 shows up and eventually becomes their own team. You see that in Teen Titans. TMNT, in DC Comics, etc.

 

This is always possible if Sunset was to cross over to Equestria forever and fit into FiM. The only downside is that she'd be only a plot device and supporting character. You'd see less of her and all the work put into her development and journey in the movies would have been utterly wasted.

 

Sunset discovered herself in the human world. She has been executed in a way where you notice just how close to the humane 5 she has gotten and it wouldn't make sense if she were to leave them to stay in Equestria forever. She misses Equestria and it's possible she'd visit and make amends and even befriend the other "mane 5" but her place is in the human world. She'd pretty much have the role of "human twilight" if she was to stay in Equestria "with the mane 6": not have the leader role we are used to seeing her play and pretty much be an extra.  

Edited October 28, 2015 by Princess Sunset

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Going to be honest, the mane reason I don't want a sunset coming over is due to the fact that the other 5 don't get enough focus in two parters as is, if you brought over sunset, she'd most likely have a season devoted to her to introduce her purpose in the world, and I really don't want to sit through that given I've already gotten the EQG for that :/

 

They frankly will not have pony sunset permanently come over to the pony world, but I COULD see the human sunset stepping over, yeah? And in such a situation, they would most likely integrate her into the group as the seventh EOH (somehow), which would neccessitate the entire season introducing the kids to this human shimmer, how she's different from Pony shimmer, what she wants in equestria, what role she fills in the group, and how it is that she's worthy of and gains an EOH.

That's a full season's meta-plot dedicated to a new character, and I already feel theyr'e strapped for time for characters and plots I want to see. (I want more discord/fluttershy for example)

 

 

 

The mistake a lot of people make as far as the Equestria Girls movies go is thinking that anyone other than Sunset Shimmer is the main character. Those movies are part of her overarching narrative towards redemption from hitting rock bottom. The logical conclusion to them is when she is ready to face the demons of her past and return home.

 

This is only a recent idea the staff decided to do for the movies though. Sunset in the first movie wasn't the central character, twilight was: Sunset was no more the focus of that movie than Adagio was the character of RR.

It was only in RR that they decided they wanted to follow up on sunset, and it was actually pretty well into the middle of fiddling around with that movie that they hit upon that idea: They actually had very little of an idea about what they wanted to do with RR.

 

So its not that that was set up from the beginning just something they decided to go with, even if it is true now.

 

I don't know why people assume that SS has to be a part of the mane 6, if she DOES (Hopefully) come back to Equestria. She could just as easily be handed over to Luna as her apprentice, or interact with Gilda, or Trixie, Flim and Flam, or The CMC, Spike, Coco Pommel, Sassy Saddles, Trenderhoof, the Appleoosans, Zecora, and the list goes on.

Well, the point of having sunset come over, from a marketing standpoint, would be to sell more toys of sunset to those who are fans of her in the EQG world. You'd irk those fans if you shafted her outside of the mainstream of the show as most fans would be expecting her to fulfill a similar role that she plays in the EQG universe.

 

 

they did complicate this in the third movie. In the third movie when she transforms SHE becomes the element of magic - and the human mane 5 assist her - which means that while the crown may not have answered to her in the first movie, something has changed to allow her to NOW - I mean human twilight put on the crown and it turned HER into a demon. Sunset shimmer and twilight sparkle I believe are meant to be like 2 sides of the same coin - sunset being forceful where twilight is shy.

 

It could very well be that twilight will have need of her.. haha they should do a dragonball z and have them fuse together into one super being - sunlight sparkle

 

sunset shimmer can always fill in the role of twilight when twilight is too busy doing princessly things

I don't think Sunset was the element of magic there, rather the element of Empathy: The staff said in tweets that if Sunset had an element it would be empathy, and Sunset's whole thing there was empathizing with Twilight, not being a master friend.

Sunset utilized all the magic of the others, but that doesn't neccessarily make her the element of magic.

[takai 1,060]

If the creators were planning to tie Equestria Girls to the actual show, they would've done it by now. If they really make Equestria Girls cannon, everything would change. The creators know this, and it's just plain obvious. The Equestria Girls franchise however, can stand on its own so it doesn't really need to become canon anyway. So I'm not exactly sure why this is even a thread. But, I digress.

 

Point 2 is irrelevant. I mean, you could say that about any new character really. It's certainly possible for them to develop those feelings over time.

 

I believe every pony is an element bearer. Everyone embodies at least one element. I think that's something the franchise has established without really stating it. If you've seen the end of Friendship Games you'd know

she did in fact bear the element of magic when fighting Midnight Sparkle

.

 

 

To sum it up, there's not a place for Sunset Shimmer because she was never made to have a place to begin with.

Edited October 29, 2015 by takai