Three reasons why Sunset Shimmer does not belong in FiM

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

I don't think anyone seriously wants Sunset to get her own element or make a permanent "Mane Seven" out of the six. People just want her to drop in and visit Twilight once and a while. It's the least she could do. The only time they ever got together in the movies was when Sunset had a problem and needed Twilight's help. That's not what a real friendship should be, and Twilight definitely believes that because that was the whole set-up for Cadence's visit in Three's a Crowd. Friends should make time for each other. If you're only "close" to somebody because they need a favor, the relationship doesn't mean anything. 

 

There's no reason to get pissed if Sunset does appear in later seasons, even if you don't like EQG. Nothing in the movies has to change anything in FIM or be mentioned at all. In fact, she doesn't really need to appear in any serious episodes, like the season openers and finales typically are. She could just be the focus for a few slice of life comedy episodes, much like Big Mac was in Brotherhooves Social, or Discord in MNFBKD.

As for her bearing the element of magic in FG, they could simply say that it only works in the human world because she has a stronger bond with the Humane Six than she would with the Mane SIx. As it is, her magic would just be on the level of Trixie's (or perhaps even Cadence's since FG implies she could be alicorn status). She could do lots of neat things as a pony, but never as efficiently as Twilight. She's not going to overthrow her as a princess, or even a main character. Seriously, it's not something to worry about.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Lord-Pomegranate

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

One more reason for why she should stay in the human world.  She needs to face off against her human counterpart!  (preferably in a DBZ sort of way where they trade blows and magic blasts and each contact tears a hole in the universe and starts to breakdown the barriers between dimensions with only 5 minutes left until both universes collapse!...I'm on a DB high, sue me) 

[UnknownFry 169]

I see three short sighted and bad reasons all of these can be easily addressed but it will take time and effort to address properly as far as the show is concerned as there needs to be elaboration and additional exposition to make it work.

 

1. It's way too late for a mane seven 

 

No it isn't, but the assumption of the mane 7 might be a flawed one in the first place.

 

The staff has been kicking around the idea of Sunset Shimmer being a seventh element and that would be empathy.

 

That said I think Sunset Shimmer would be a guest character rather than a permanent addition so this point would be moot. I see no problem with having her travel across both worlds just as there is no problem for Twilight to do as well on occasion.

 

2. The mane five do not know her

 

They would get to know her personally through various interactions with her, and they would know a little bit about her from Twilight.

 

Celestia and Twilight know Sunset Shimmer though and that is a good enough of a starting point to work with, and frankly it does not really matter that the other five don't know her.

 

3. She hasn't earned what the mane six have earned

 

And what is that the Mane 6 have earned exactly? Arguably Sunset Shimmer has accomplished the other five have not done within her three movies, so I would say she has earned a crack at it,

 

Friendship or redemption is not about entitlement or exclusion.

 

And not only has Equestria Girls not been referenced in the show, it's actually been flat-out contradicted as well. 

 

Might as well declare the show to be show non-canon as well since it has contradicted itself as well on occasion as well too.

 

Just because the show does not reference the movies does not make it non-canon especially since it has repeated several times that the films are considered to be canon, and yes the films directly reference the events of the show suggesting it is part of the same canon and continuity.

 

One good reason right there to include Sunset Shimmer in an episode or two is to put an end such nonsense by giving the naysayers irrefutable proof. A second good reason is to allow her to return to finally make amends and come to terms with Celestia, but both of these can be addressed in a movie without impacting the show.I don't care if it infuriates some people in the process as I think it would be a price worth paying.

 

One more reason for why she should stay in the human world.  She needs to face off against her human counterpart! 

 

That is assuming is she has one.

 

However this seems like something they are setting up for Science Twilight to do so the cycle can be complete. Sunset has learned about the magic of friendship, now it is Science Twilight's turn to do the same.

Edited October 29, 2015 by UnknownFry

[RarityFan01 2,444]

Why can't she occasionally visit Equestria as a secondary character?

I see three short sighted and bad reasons all of these can be easily addressed but it will take time and effort to address properly as far as the show is concerned as there needs to be elaboration and additional exposition to make it work.

 

1. It's way too late for a mane seven 

 

No it isn't, but the assumption of the mane 7 might be a flawed one in the first place.

 

The staff has been kicking around the idea of Sunset Shimmer being a seventh element and that would be empathy.

 

That said I think Sunset Shimmer would be a guest character rather than a permanent addition so this point would be moot. I see no problem with having her travel across both worlds just as there is no problem for Twilight to do as well on occasion.

 

2. The mane five do not know her

 

They would get to know her personally through various interactions with her, and they would know a little bit about her from Twilight.

 

Celestia and Twilight know Sunset Shimmer though and that is a good enough of a starting point to work with, and frankly it does not really matter that the other five don't know her.

 

3. She hasn't earned what the mane six have earned

 

And what is that the Mane 6 have earned exactly? Arguably Sunset Shimmer has accomplished the other five have not done within her three movies, so I would say she has earned a crack at it,

 

Friendship or redemption is not about entitlement or exclusion.

 

And not only has Equestria Girls not been referenced in the show, it's actually been flat-out contradicted as well. 

 

Might as well declare the show to be show non-canon as well since it has contradicted itself as well on occasion as well too.

 

Just because the show does not reference the movies does not make it non-canon especially since it has repeated several times that the films are considered to be canon, and yes the films directly reference the events of the show suggesting it is part of the same canon and continuity.

 

One good reason right there to include Sunset Shimmer in an episode or two is to put an end such nonsense by giving the naysayers irrefutable proof. A second good reason is to allow her to return to finally make amends and come to terms with Celestia, but both of these can be addressed in a movie without impacting the show.I don't care if it infuriates some people in the process as I think it would be a price worth paying.

 

One more reason for why she should stay in the human world.  She needs to face off against her human counterpart! 

 

That is assuming is she has one.

 

However this seems like something they are setting up for Science Twilight to do so the cycle can be complete. Sunset has learned about the magic of friendship, now it is Science Twilight's turn to do the same.

So you're saying that five seasons of mlp were a waste of time since Sunset Shimmer did a lot more in only the movies. Are you suggesting that Sunset Shimmer should replace the Mane Six because as you said, they never accomplished anything.

[UnknownFry 169]

So you're saying that five seasons of mlp were a waste of time since Sunset Shimmer did a lot more in only the movies

 

All I am saying Sunset has merit based on the movies to warrant consideration for possible inclusion in the show albeit a guest role at best.

 

There certainly seems to be some consideration on the matter for the time being, so the idea is not out of the question, but I am of the opinion that her place is best suited to remain in the human world but there is also plenty of stuff to do with her should she decide to visit Equestria.

 

Are you suggesting that Sunset Shimmer should replace the Mane Six because as you said, they never accomplished anything. 

 

Not at all, and that is not what I said. 

 

The Mane 6 have accomplished a lot in five seasons, and as such there no need for anybody to be replaced.

 

All I am saying is Sunset would make for a nice addition to the Mane 6 should they go that route (as unlikely as it is.), she would be a supplement and not a replacement. Just another friend to the circle of friends.

 

However a fair amount of resources would have to be devoted to exposition in order to include Sunset Shimmer in the first place which is the biggest hold up.

Edited October 29, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

As much as I do adore and cherish Sunset Shimmer as a character, if she were to come to to Equestria I would really prefer it as a temporary visit. I wouldn't be against a singular focus in one episode, but with the way the series has developed the chemistry is between the Mane 6. Likewise Sunset's chemistry is with the Human 5 (now 6).

 

On the other hand there is the still the issue of human Sunset...

[Chronamut 355]

I'll be honest - I don't see her as a strong or likeable character, even now that she is "reformed" - she's just kinda angsty now, and still prone to fits of anger. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Chronamut

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Uh

I'll be honest - I don't see her as a strong or likeable character, even now that she is "reformed" - she's just kinda angsty now, and still prone to fits of anger.

 

flaws hardly make her a bad character. Who DOESNT get upset and blow a fuse, at times? Or frustrated and confused when they don't have the answerto something?

[Chronamut 355]

yes but she doesn't contribute much - rarity makes dresses, fluttershy takes care of animals, applejack does all the farm stuff, twilight is a genius, and rainbowdash is captain of like.. everything.. 

 

what does sunset shimmer do? Besides play guitar.

 

her character just isn't fleshed out in a way that I feel for her I suppose. Doesn't feel developed enough.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Chronamut

[Steve Piranha 29,414]

I realize that many want to see Sunset Shimmer return to Equestria and insert herself into FiM, and that the show staff are actually considering this. However, I feel the need to point out that this is simply not feasible for the following reasons: 

 

 

1. It's way too late for a mane seven 

 

 

 

2. The mane five do not know her

 

 

 

 

3. She hasn't earned what the mane six have earned

 

 

1-Makes sense, It's kinda pointless to have a sixth ranger trope in FiM after 5 years maintaining the status quo in that regard

2-That's hardly an impediment, just give her some time if she decides to return to Equestria, but I don't think that'll make her an element of harmony

3-Again, that's not much an impediment, but then again, Sunny learned different, but equally valuable things that could make her something equal to the elements of harmony, like Cadance's connection to the empiyah

 

I'll take the liberty to make a fourth, but in my opinion, the main reason she doesn't belong to FiM: despite bein originally from Equestria, she made her name in the EG franchise, and she now serves as the main source of magical knowledge in the plot of EG where pony Twi can't stay all the time. It would be fine if Sunny visits Equestria and makes a guess appearance in one episode or two in FiM, but for be, she's an immigrant who belongs to the human world, and she stays there  -_-

[SilverStarApple 849]

Agreed. She's a minor character that has her own series, the whole "Hero of another story" thing works great for her, and bringing her into the main show wouldn't work at all.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

So I'm not exactly sure why this is even a thread. But, I digress.

 

 

Let's just say, I enjoy crushing unrealistic hopes and desires. 

 

Seriously though, I remember recently reading somewhere that the staff were actually considering her return. I'm simply pointing out that I don't believe that there's any feasible way they could make it work if they did. 

 

I can see it working as a guest appearance only if she returns to the human world afterward. If she's returning permanently, then like I said, where exactly does she have to go except directly into the role of the mane seventh? 

 

In fact, Twilight would probably even insist that she live in the castle. 

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

 

 

Let's just say, I enjoy crushing unrealistic hopes and desires. 

 

 

God, you're so evil.

 

I've been saying these things, ever since Sunset Shimmer became popular in this fandom (eventhough i don't really know why, but to each their own.)

 

It would also make her seem look ungrateful and whiny, since she obviously has a good life in the human world, with her friends. What reason does she have to leave it behind?

 

Imagine i would leave my friends behind in Bremen, because i want to move to Berlin, just because it's a much bigger City then Bremen.

 

Home is where your heart is and i think Sunsets heart belongs in the human world.

[Chronamut 355]

isn't there a rule that you can't have 2 of you in the same world or it has the possibility to tear apart the fabric of reality? EVENTUALLY, ONE of the sunset shimmers is gonna have to go.

 

That's the whole reason the rest of the mane 6 weren't allowed to follow twilight into the portal..

Edited October 29, 2015 by Chronamut

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

isn't there a rule that you can't have 2 of you in the same world or it has the possibility to tear apart the fabric of reality? EVENTUALLY, ONE of the sunset shimmers is gonna have to go.

 

That's the whole reason the rest of the mane 6 weren't allowed to follow twilight into the portal..

 

we haven't seen her doppelganger as of now and i think we never will, because that universe is just badly constructed.

[Chronamut 355]

granted, they did open up the franchise quite a bit by introducing the ability to travel to different dimensions - now there is no limit as to what can be canon, and WHY.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

God, you're so evil.

 

  

 

 

 

It would also make her seem look ungrateful and whiny, since she obviously has a good life in the human world, with her friends. What reason does she have to leave it behind?

 

Homesickness, apparently. The deleted scenes of Friendship Games show that it was supposedly going to be another reason for Sunset Shimmer's angst, but apparently they decided to save it as her angst for the next film. 

 

This likely implies she'll be joining the show after the next (and possibly last) film. 

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

Homesickness, apparently. The deleted scenes of Friendship Games show that it was supposedly going to be another reason for Sunset Shimmer's angst, but apparently they decided to save it as her angst for the next film. 

 

This likely implies she'll be joining the show after the next (and possibly last) film. 

 

Homesick of what? There is nothing in Equestria waiting for her.

 

If they want some kind of redemption, by all means, give it to her and let her go back. But don't let her stay and become a main character, just for the sake of it.

[Jeric 46,850]

While the humor did make me snicker a bit, don't let the topic derail to far off the point of the discussion.

 

Emote was appropriate

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

It always amazes me how Bronies are so against change of any kind. Case in point? All the rage when Twilight became a Princess. I would love to see Sunset Shimmer return to Equestria, but that would cause far too much irrational rage in the Brony fandom for Hasbro to risk it.

[Dark Qiviut 22,378]

It always amazes me how Bronies are so against change of any kind. Case in point? All the rage when Twilight became a Princess. I would love to see Sunset Shimmer return to Equestria, but that would cause far too much irrational rage in the Brony fandom for Hasbro to risk it.

You're really strawmanning here. The complaints against Twilight's princesshood come from two big reasons:

1. The poor execution of her transition. Two major plot points come together way too quickly for the episode's own good, and her "evolution" takes place in a span of twenty-four hours.
2. The Cutie Mark was the visual explanation of who you are and what you look for in life. Suddenly, the show retcons the concept into being a theme of predestiny. As if she didn't have to work hard to earn it and her friends' lives had to be fixated on them even though they stunk at their duties.

It depends on the execution quality of the change. Bronies definitely aren't against all changes. Some examples are in the link. If they were against change, how come the majority of the fandom cheered when the CMCs finally got their Marks?

 

And you didn't carefully read Clever's explanations why Sunset won't work. If Sunset's return took place earlier in the series (season four or even this one), then you have more leverage. But season six is coming soon, and a fourth EQG film is on the way. Both of which could be the very last one until the final film in two years. You'll have no time to develop her and her journey back in the main series.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Hero 63]

I think it would be nice for her to come and visit from time to time just to be an extra character. You know, like Sunset is in town so why not bring her along? Far as making her a permanent resident again, I don't really see how it would work either, but I'd be fine with it if they did, the writers have never let me down before.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

Homesick of what? There is nothing in Equestria waiting for her.

 

 

Exactly. It'd just be an excuse to get her in the show. 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

It’s charming how quickly some grab an opportunity to push their waifu by grace of dubious canonicity, or point fingers at the fandom’s “evil” ways to explain her absence, yet they do not want to talk about the consequences that such a waifu would have on the product. I said it before and I’ll say it again: as it stands, MLP: FIM has a limited capacity to deviate from its restrictive model of slice & friendship. We’re in S05 and only now is H-Bro waking up with “hey guyz, perhaps we should develop the world and its characters or something”. Now do you really want to throw salt under this snail wagon with an unneeded char like Sunset when you have Spike, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, Mane 6 family members, and even prominent background characters who all deserve more attention? Moreover, Sunset Shimmer is tied to EQG and she will likely sink with that ship when ol’ chagrin comes round the gypsy convoy. And beyond? Look around you and gaze upon all prominent main characters of other successful shows. Does Sunset have what it takes to carry? I for one think she doesn’t. Still, I’d welcome her as a background pony, granted that she stays that way.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

You're really strawmanning here. The complaints against Twilight's princesshood come from two big reasons:

1. The poor execution of her transition. Two major plot points come together way too quickly for the episode's own good, and her "evolution" takes place in a span of twenty-four hours.
2. The Cutie Mark was the visual explanation of who you are and what you look for in life. Suddenly, the show retcons the concept into being a theme of predestiny. As if she didn't have to work hard to earn it and her friends' lives had to be fixated on them even though they stunk at their duties.

It depends on the execution quality of the change. Bronies definitely aren't against all changes. Some examples are in the link. If they were against change, how come the majority of the fandom cheered when the CMCs finally got their Marks?

 

And you didn't carefully read Clever's explanations why Sunset won't work. If Sunset's return took place earlier in the series (season four or even this one), then you have more leverage. But season six is coming soon, and a fourth EQG film is on the way. Both of which could be the very last one until the final film in two years. You'll have no time to develop her and her journey back in the main series.

I don't think I'm strawmaning just because I have an opinion.