A theory that could prove that Celestia doesn't raise the Sun after all

[Ponitten 43]

NOTE : This is a THEORY. It is not confirmed, and you are free to have your own theories or just stick with what the show says. This post is just an idea I had which I wanted to show because I thought it was interesting. I am aware that MLP is a cartoon, and thus has cartoon physics, but it's fun to speculate! Also, I'm not doing this because I hate Celestia. I love the Alicorns, don't worry.

Throughout the show, it has been established that Celestia raises the Sun, and Luna raises the Moon, in order to create a day and a night on Equestria.

As a kinda scientific person, I always doubted it, but My Little Pony is a show involving talking ponies and magic, so the laws of physics could be very different and the Sun could very well be very tiny and orbit Eques (I'll call the planet Eques, because I believe Equestria isn't the whole planet). Or Eques could be flat, having the Sun and the Moon around it and moved by the Alicorns.

First, let's be clear, Eques is not flat. Why am I so sure of that? Look at that picture from Secret of My Excess :

A spherical globe of the planet. Thus, Eques isn't flat. (Also, judging from the continents, maybe Eques is an post-apocalyptic Earth, in the distant future? Hard to tell, as they seem unclear and change quite a bit in when a globe is shown, so I'll not expand on that)

So, with the flat theory out of the question, it is still possible that the Sun and the Moon are somehow moved around the planet by the Alicorns.

 

But, as I was watching the premiere of the sixth season, inside Sunburst's house, I saw this :

A...solar system model? With the Sun in the middle? Oh. My. God. This changes EVERYTHING!

And, it's not a random background element, it's in the middle of the screen for a few seconds, so it's meant to be seen.

There is a planet with a moon in the front. We can assume it's Eques and the Moon, orbiting around a big Sun with several other planets (I want a space episode now).

This model clearly shows Eques orbits the Sun, and the Sun doesn't orbit Eques...and Celestia moving such a large star around Eques would use waaaay too much energy and potentiality cause chaos in the solar system, sending planets colliding with each other.

But wait! It's impossible to say that Celestia is faking the whole thing, as in the finale of Season 4, we see Twilight trying to raise the Sun, but having some trouble with it, so something is happening.

So, if the alicorns aren't moving the Sun, and they aren't faking it, it can only mean that they are actually spinning the planet around it's axis! I made a diagram to explain it.

(Get ready for horrible, not to scale MS Paint drawings)

 

In this diagram, Equestria, the dark green continent, is in the dark. It's nighttime, everypony is sleeping.

Celestia decides to "Raise the Sun", so she uses her very strong magic to rotate the planet around the axis.

The planet spins around the axis, the sun appears to move in the sky, as if Celestia was raising it, and ta-daa! It's day! Everypony thinks she raised the sun, even though she didn't!

How about Luna? Well, she also does some work, as she spins the planet around again. HOWEVER, she is ALSO moving the Moon. Luna is constantly holding the Moon in the same position, and moving it along Eques' orbit around the Sun, because if she didn't, the Moon would show up during daytime, and confuse everypony. But, wait, there is more. This Moon could also be a bit magical. While it was being moved around by Luna, it stored some magic. If the Moon ever passes in front of the day side of the planet, the magic will cause it to absorb the light coming from the sun, bathing the day side in night. This explains how Nightmare Moon, in the very first episode, could cause a perpetual night :

It also explains the split sky in Season 4 :

The Moon is simply overlapping a little with the day side, but not enough for the planet to be entirely dark.

And now, let's answer a few questions this theory creates :

-How did the planet spin before ponies evolved?

I think the planet did spin before ponies evolved, but it was very slow and kinda erratic, due to the proximity of the Moon and the tidal forces. The ponies helped it stabilize.

-Couldn't Celestia just give the planet a push and let it spin, without her having to do anything?

She could, but her status wouldn't be as glorious. Moving the sun is a glorious accomplishment.

-Why doesn't everypony knows about it?

Simple. To preserve their "godlike status", the alicorns set a strict rule. Anypony discovering about the secret and revealing it would be arrested, and the memory of the ponies erased using magic. Sunburst seems to know about it, and anyone studying magic and astronomy probably would.

-What happened when Twilight had trouble raising the sun in Season 4?

I guess she just trying to spin the planet but ended up moving the axis, thus causing that weird erratic sun movement.

-Since the ponies have to manually change the seasons, does it means the planet has no axial tilt?

Yes!

-If then, why can't the princesses change the tilt to get seasons?

The changing of seasons is an old tradition in pony history. Why would they change it? It's mostly viewed as a fun activity.

-Wouldn't everyone be flung away when Twilight rotated the planet really fast?

I guess she knew about the whole thing and protected the ponies with some kind of "anti-flung" spell?

-How did Discord switch day and night so fast in The Return of Harmony Part 2, without destroying the planet because of tidal forces?

That one is really hard to answer. He moved the Moon really fast, in such a way it eclipsed the Sun. As he brought the Moon close to the day side, the light from the Sun got "sucked" into the Moon, thus making it look like the Sun is being dragged down. Smart Discord. Smart Discord.

 

So, this concludes my theory! Basically, the alicorns spins the planet around the axis, and the Moon has the power to absorb light, but it's usually kept behind the planet, to avoid confusion and darkness. (I might be overthinking it a little bit, but I like to overthink things!)

END NOTE : I'm not trying to discredit Celestia. Moving the planet is still an accomplishment, but it just makes more sense than moving the sun physics-wise. Some could even argue that it's better, because if she did move the Sun, it would have to be very small in order to orbit around Eques, and she would have to move a much smaller mass.

Tell me what you think of it!

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ponitten

[Silver Stream. 708]

You...Must have had a lot of time on your hands to come up with this, my friend lol.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

You really want to discredit Celestia with sidegags in the show, that nobody would bat an eye on?

 

Celestia raises the sun and there is nothing more to it.

[WriteCodes46 178]

You're overanalyzing it. The globes are simply things the animators put there without second thought.

[Makazi 317]

There is one problem with this theory that you're proposing. As Neil deGrasse Tyson puts it: "If Earth stopped rotating, everyone not bolted to the ground would fall over and roll due east at the speed of a jetplane." So! During that episode when Twilight was struggling with 'turning the planet', everyone should have been flung around (herself included) and promptly killed, especially considering the erratic and rapid movement of the sun during that sequence.

 

It's a good theory, but it just boils down to 'is a cartoon; IRL physics not applicable'

Edited March 29, 2016 by Makazi

[Missklang 1,052]

 @@Ponitten  

 That's a great theory! And so well thought! We can see that much effort was put in in! I always thought that for a godlike pony who can rotate the sun itself she is pretty weak against danger (like a big storm cloud for example). One could argue that she uses all her powers to rotate the sun, but if the theory is correct, it's just waste of powers for the show. So after all, Celestia is just messing with everyone to keep the power in her hooves. Tsk tsk Celestia. What a shame.

   This theory is nice, but I still find a small detail that bug me out: How you explain the fact Discord was able to shift day and night in seconds?(when he was holding Twilight in return of harmony part 2) If your theory is correct, he must turn the Equs at enormous speed! I guess it would make him pretty powerful. And unless he is powerful enough to negate the force that would normally wipe everything on the planets to bits (but then how he is so easily defeated by Tirek and the EoH?) I dunno how he managed to pull such trick. How does that fit into your theory?

[cmarston1 5,952]

You don't really need to go that far to discredit Princess Celestia.

The show already does a good job at doing that whenever a crisis arrives.

[Ponitten 43]

 @@Ponitten

 That's a great theory! And so well thought! We can see that much effort was put in in! I always thought that for a godlike pony who can rotate the sun itself she is pretty weak against danger (like a big storm cloud for example). One could argue that she uses all her powers to rotate the sun, but if the theory is correct, it's just waste of powers for the show. So after all, Celestia is just messing with everyone to keep the power in her hooves. Tsk tsk Celestia. What a shame.

   This theory is nice, but I still find a small detail that bug me out: How you explain the fact Discord was able to shift day and night in seconds?(when he was holding Twilight in return of harmony part 2) If your theory is correct, he must turn the Equs at enormous speed! I guess it would make him pretty powerful. And unless he is powerful enough to negate the force that would normally wipe everything on the planets to bits (but then how he is so easily defeated by Tirek and the EoH?) I dunno how he managed to pull such trick. How does that fit into your theory?

He moved the Moon! Remember, it can absorb light.

[Missklang 1,052]

@@Ponitten

That would work but we can clearly see that the sun is "pulled down"

That does look like the planet is rotated at high speed though... But that brings the question about Discord's powers...

Edited March 29, 2016 by Missklang

[Ponitten 43]

@@Ponitten

That would work but we can clearly see that the sun is "pulled down"

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That does look like the planet is rotated at high speed though... But that brings the question about Discord's powers...

The light from the Sun is being absorbed by the Moon. Thus, the Sun appears to be "sucked down" as all the light is being captured by the raising Moon.

[Gestum 2,493]

Well, this theory is based on the assumption that Equestria has the same physics as our universe. And nothing really indicate that that's the case.

 

Also it's possible that she rotates the planets around the sun, and most people don't know that and mistakenly thinks that she is moving the sun and not the planets.

[Missklang 1,052]

The light from the Sun is being absorbed by the Moon. Thus, the Sun appears to be "sucked down" as all the light is being captured by the raising Moon.

That is possible indeed. We do need to know however how strong is moon's attraction of the light so it give such visual effect. But I guess it is plausible. It is still a pretty fast moon rising and that makes Discord a bit more powerful! Hurray! And since he is a god of chaos, everything is possible. Perhaps everything he does is just an illusion... Who knows....who knows.... But still, that's a great theory you have there. It would make a cool MLP theory video

[Ponitten 43]

Well, this theory is based on the assumption that Equestria has the same physics as our universe. And nothing really indicate that that's the case.

 

Also it's possible that she rotates the planets around the sun, and most people don't know that and mistakenly thinks that she is moving the sun and not the planets.

But why would she be moving the planets around the Sun? I wouldn't want to live in an universe with planets unable to orbit...

It's possible that an horrible disaster stopped the rotation of Eques, forcing the ponies to spin it. A spinning planet would create the same visual effects, without having to move every single planet of the solar system.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ponitten

[Missklang 1,052]

But why would she be moving the planets around the Sun? I wouldn't want to live in an universe with planets unable to orbit...

It's possible that an horrible disaster stopped the rotation of Eques, forcing the ponies to spin it.

Anyway, ponies would want to spin their planet. Unless they want for one side to burn and dry out from constant solar exposition and the other to be buried in snow and ice and be lifeless from lack of sunlight and heat... So Celestia has an important role after all...

Perhaps the planet can't rotate by itself for some obscure reason...

Edited March 29, 2016 by Missklang

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Take a shot for every "you are overthinking it" comment, you'll be plum wasted by the time you finish this thread  .

 

That being said; as much I hate to agree with the utterly barren, useless, pointless, and dismissive bull crap that is this type of comment; I'm afraid that I'm going to have to in this case. 

 

When it comes to the the solar system and physics of this show, there is no rhyme or reason to it. I've beat my head against the inconsistencies of this shows logic when it comes to its solar system time and time again and its really just not worth the effort outside of  a fanfic. Why? Its because they don't have a consistent answer even among themselves. 

 

Here is an email that was linked to me during a pm chat awhile ago with @Nuke87654

 

 

Amy K. Rogers, whom has been pretty big in the whole mlp thing just said that the sun revolved around the planet. 

 

 

This clearly contradicts that. 

 

As much as I love making head canons that work with the shows parts that they provide, they have done an utterly terrible job at keeping their rules of their solar system consistent. In this case, logic really does have no place here and is only going to lead to frustration. Trust me from personal experience. 

[Ponitten 43]

Take a shot for every "you are overthinking it" comment, you'll be plum wasted by the time you finish this thread  .

 

That being said; as much I hate to agree with the utterly barren, useless, pointless, and dismissive bull crap that is this type of comment; I'm afraid that I'm going to have to in this case. 

 

When it comes to the the solar system and physics of this show, there is no rhyme or reason to it. I've beat my head against the inconsistencies of this shows logic when it comes to its solar system time and time again and its really just not worth the effort outside of  a fanfic. Why? Its because they don't have a consistent answer even among themselves. 

 

Here is an email that was linked to me during a pm chat awhile ago with @Nuke87654

 

 

Amy K. Rogers, whom has been pretty big in the whole mlp thing just said that the sun revolved around the planet. 

 

 

This clearly contradicts that. 

 

As much as I love making head canons that work with the shows parts that they provide, they have done an utterly terrible job at keeping their rules of their solar system consistent. In this case, logic really does have no place here and is only going to lead to frustration. Trust me from personal experience. 

This is similar to the geocentric debate during the middle ages : Nobody really knows how it works, and all we can do is speculate. Everyone has their own opinion. Maybe the sun doesn't revolve around the planet, but maybe the planet doesn't revolve around the sun, since there is arguments for both sides (that e-mail and that solar system model) and no way to prove it. I'm not really sure this is gonna be my "official head canon", it's just a theory I created. You're free to take part in one side or the other. The only way to settle this debate  once and for all would be to have Laurent Faust answer the question (Which is not gonna happen, so we will never know!).

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ponitten

[Buck Testa 5,503]

This is similar to the geocentric debate during the middle ages : Nobody really knows how it works, and all we can do is speculate. Everyone has their own opinion. Maybe the sun doesn't revolve around the planet, but maybe the planet doesn't revolve around the sun, since there is arguments for both sides (that e-mail and that solar system model) and no way to prove it. I'm not really sure this is gonna be my "official head canon", it's just a theory I created.

The thing with the geocentric debate in the middle ages is it was falsifiable and thus scientific. Once it was proven that the planet did indeed revolve around the sun and not the other way around the geocentric theory was discarded by all with rational thinking brains. In this instance there isn't anything to test or be proven false because the "powers that be" aren't keeping the rules consistent even among themselves (at least when it comes to the solar system) . 

 

Lets be frank, if the sun OR the planet was whipping about as they did in the show and it had applicable physics involved, there would be global devastation within seconds just from the gravitational fluctuations. Since the apocalypse didn't happen when one of the many times celestial bodies were manhandled across the sky by magic, they either are too small to cause such gravitational fluctuations or physics is fundamentally different in that reality (or the real answer, they don't care about logical consistency when it comes to the solar system. An answer I despise but have to go with.)

[Ponitten 43]

The thing with the geocentric debate in the middle ages is it was falsifiable and thus scientific. Once it was proven that the planet did indeed revolve around the sun and not the other way around the geocentric theory was discarded by all with rational thinking brains. In this instance there isn't anything to test or be proven false because the "powers that be" aren't keeping the rules consistent even among themselves (at least when it comes to the solar system) . 

 

Lets be frank, if the sun OR the planet was whipping about as they did in the show and it had applicable physics involved, there would be global devastation within seconds just from the gravitational fluctuations. Since the apocalypse didn't happen when one of the many times celestial bodies were manhandled across the sky by magic, they either are too small to cause such gravitational fluctuations or physics is fundamentally different in that reality (or the real answer, they don't care about logical consistency when it comes to the solar system. An answer I despise but have to go with.)

Maybe the physics are similar...maybe they are not. Maybe the magic is strong enough to prevent devastation, maybe it's not. Since we can only theorize using small bits of information, and since nothing is clear enough to have a definite answer, as I said, it's all up to the viewer to make up his head cannon. Theories are just here to share a point of view, an opinion, but not to give a definite answer, and totally not to force a point of view.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ponitten

[Buck Testa 5,503]

Maybe the physics are similar...maybe they are not. Maybe the magic is strong enough to prevent devastation, maybe it's not. Since we can only theorize using small bits of information, and since nothing is clear enough to have a definite answer, as I said, it's all up to the viewer to make up his head cannon. Theories are just here to share a point of view, an opinion, but not to give a definite answer, and totally not to force a point of view.

Usually I'm right there with you. Usually I can agree that there can be a head canon that meshes all of it together if you find enough of the little pieces.

 

However all of these "little pieces" each go to a different puzzle. You can theorize and make a head canon on what the puzzle would end up looking like, but it wouldn't change the fact that you are trying to fabricate the image out of two conflicting sets of puzzle pieces that just do not mesh well when you try to logic the answer out. I can't find joy in theorizing about something they don't even care enough about to keep consistent. In this case this is just a glaring plot hole that will hopefully be patched up one of these days. 

[Missklang 1,052]

Usually I'm right there with you. Usually I can agree that there can be a head canon that meshes all of it together if you find enough of the little pieces.

 

However all of these "little pieces" each go to a different puzzle. You can theorize and make a head canon on what the puzzle would end up looking like, but it wouldn't change the fact that you are trying to fabricate the image out of two conflicting sets of puzzle pieces that just do not mesh well when you try to logic the answer out. I can't find joy in theorizing about something they don't even care enough about to keep consistent. In this case this is just a glaring plot hole that will hopefully be patched up one of these days. 

An episode about astrology or by that matter, history or something else would be nice indeed! I would like to have a Starswirl episode! That would be cool!

[Buck Testa 5,503]

An episode about astrology or by that matter, history or something else would be nice indeed! I would like to have a Starswirl episode! That would be cool!

I would absolutely welcome that! Maybe we could even get some Ponies in space lol.

[Swifty 249]

So that basically means, that not only is Celestia a fraud, who wants to be considered as a god, but also Luna's part of the job needs more effort, which makes her a bit more relevant than her sister?

I guess that completes the deconstruction of Celestia's character. This might become canon soon.

[Missklang 1,052]

So that basically means, that not only is Celestia a fraud, who wants to be considered as a god, but also Luna's part of the job needs more effort, which makes her a bit more relevant than her sister?

I guess that completes the deconstruction of Celestia's character. This might become canon soon.

Well as I said, if she indeed spins the planet, if she stops and planet stops spinning everything will die. On one side from lack of sun, on the other from an overdose of solar radiation and high temperature...

[Ponitten 43]

I would absolutely welcome that! Maybe we could even get some Ponies in space lol.

I would love that! Plus, astronauts are kinda canon. Some ponies wear astronaut costumes during Nightmare Moon. No astronaut costumes without real astronauts, or at least tales about them. Pony space program confirmed?

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ponitten

[Missklang 1,052]

You know what would be cool? That at one point somepony from one of the alternate realities that were created during the Starlight Glimmer's time travelling shenanigans goes to the current reality to request help from Twilight and her friends. Multiverses are always fun and good source of plot too!