ManaMinori 4,149 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 I can forgive the "Christmas in May" arrangement, and the fact that we even need another Xmas epiode. But the message of "if someone you know doesn't want to celebrate the holidays, threaten them until they do" bothers me. Scare Master lesson: Its ok if you don't want to participate in a holiday. A Hearths Warming Tale lesson: You should participate in holidays cause if you don't bad s#i7 will happen. What's the biggest sin flreveryone else? 2 Under the Jellicle Moon- a site with cuteness, cat boys, and comic strips / Star Dreams Fanclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeric 46,880 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 To me neither were sins. The whole convince Starlight tactic was forgivable because of how it was presented. Unlike Nightmare Night, Hearth's Warming signifies the possibility of what happens if Ponies revert back to their bigoted ways. Twilight presented it more as a, "you may not understand the whole point of the holiday ... hear this." She also left Starlight alone at the end ... and it was Starlight who decided to join them on her own. Unlike Scare Master where there was some real pressure put on Fluttershy. Also, the general moral of Scare Master was not specific to holidays, it was more general than that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManaMinori 4,149 May 21, 2016 Author Share May 21, 2016 To me neither were sins. The whole convince Starlight tactic was forgivable because of how it was presented. Unlike Nightmare Night, Hearth's Warming signifies the possibility of what happens if Ponies revert back to their bigoted ways. Twilight presented it more as a, "you may not understand the whole point of the holiday ... hear this." She also left Starlight alone at the end ... and it was Starlight who decided to join them on her own. Unlike Scare Master where there was some real pressure put on Fluttershy. Also, the general moral of Scare Master was not specific to holidays, it was more general than that. well that still implies the moral of the episode is that ponies are forced to be nice and kind to each other if they don't want to die in a frozen wasteland. They really don't have a choice but to suck it up and play nice, if all of Equestria dies in a frozen wasteland. What a wonderful world of friendship and harmony 1 Under the Jellicle Moon- a site with cuteness, cat boys, and comic strips / Star Dreams Fanclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlikeable Pony 2,700 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 Its a christmas carol episode; its basically just to try and be friendly to others and not prioritize work over other people. The only real moral is to socialize and not be an ass shut in. I don't think it was a GOOD episode (I found starlight boring and pinkie's part kind of grating), but I don't think the basic christmas carol format was a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuteycindyhoney 13,336 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 I really enjoyed the episode, and find no fault with it. 1 Thank you Sparklefan1234!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'gann M'orzz 745 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 (edited) Jesus Christ, this site is becoming more cynical than goddamn /mlp/ and it is just pathetic, we get one of the best executed episodes in a while, great songs yadda yadda (sure it was a Chrismas Carol retelling but who really cares, for the target audience it's probably their first exposure to the story) And of course people just moan and moan and moan. I can understand the complaints about episodes like Newbie Dash or something kinda dull like On Your Marks or even the Crystalling but there's really so little wrong about the exeuction of Hearthswarming Tail that it all just feels like pointless griping.Honestly why do I even come here anymore? Seriously just a season ago I felt I was probably one of the more critical people on this forum but I have always tried to avoid being cynical, and now I Feel like cynicsm is consuming this forum and it's just not freaking fun anymore. Its a christmas carol episode; its basically just to try and be friendly to others and not prioritize work over other people. The only real moral is to socialize and not be an ass shut in. I don't think it was a GOOD episode (I found starlight boring and pinkie's part kind of grating), but I don't think the basic christmas carol format was a problem. You are never going to enjoy another episode as long as Starlight is around because you are going into them expecting to be annoyed by her. I can seriously bet that if ANY OTHER character had been Snowfall Frost you wouldn't of minded that part at all. Also Pinkie's part was a fun, unique song I don't think we ever had a jazzy song in this show before. Edited May 21, 2016 by M'gann M'orzz 8 RARITY IS THE BEST PONY EVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20% Cooler Than Cake 161 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 well that still implies the moral of the episode is that ponies are forced to be nice and kind to each other if they don't want to die in a frozen wasteland. They really don't have a choice but to suck it up and play nice, if all of Equestria dies in a frozen wasteland. What a wonderful world of friendship and harmony I think that the point was that showing friendship to others will have a positive outcome, and that showing hatred and not caring about others will have negative consequences. The windigos were a way of symbolizing these negative consequences. “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbaTross 1,586 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 I think it was shifting the moral of A Christmas Carol and making Snowfall way more evil than she should have been. That said, a more direct intervention from Luna than the Ghost of Christmas Future usually does is kind of appropriate here given what's at stake, hence validating my favourite musical number so far this season. Scrooge is a d-bag whose actions would have just led to him dying alone because people hated him. Oh, and there is some guilt tripping about Tiny Tim, who may have actually died anyways. Yeah, that isn't the most feel-good subplot of the original story. Snowfall's actions may have actually led to the event leading to the creation of Hearth's Warming Eve being erased, meaning the Windigoes return because they wouldn't have been defeated to begin with. Yikes! Luna had better make this one count, as should the other spirits. I suppose it seems a tad judgemental for Twilight to cast Starlight as Snowfall in her imagination of the story. I am assuming that's what Twilight is picturing as she also sang along with Pinkie's song. Come to think of it, did she sing all of the songs? Even Luna's? Why didn't Starlight or Spike stop her? Also, why does anypony trust Derpy with anything fragile ever? You'd think they would have learned by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManaMinori 4,149 May 21, 2016 Author Share May 21, 2016 I think that the point was that showing friendship to others will have a positive outcome, and that showing hatred and not caring about others will have negative consequences. The windigos were a way of symbolizing these negative consequences.But SG didn't show hatred. She just wanted to sit the holiday out. And if Fluttershy was able to, so should've SG 2 Under the Jellicle Moon- a site with cuteness, cat boys, and comic strips / Star Dreams Fanclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarston1 5,963 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 The fact that Snowfall Frost had a significantly better character reformation than Starlight Glimmer did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EquestriaGuy 1,074 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 (edited) What's this noise about forcing Starlight to participate? It was 100% optional. Even after Twilight read the story, she still said Starlight was free to join them "if she wanted to". Edited May 21, 2016 by EquestriaGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesme Rize 15,692 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 Twilight didn't say that Starlight should join her, after she read the story to her. She basically said. "If you look for us, we're here for you." Starlight went down by her own accord, not because Twilight dragged her down with a freaking collar. Also, this has nothing to do with brainwashing. Twilight was just showing her point of view. If we think like that, everyone who voices an opinion, can be considered a brainwasher. I have no idea which moral you are talking about. My OC Mesme Rize: >https://mlpforums.com/page/roleplay-characters/_/mesme-rize-r8777 Thank you Randimaxis for this Wonderful Avatar. Please, don't be afraid to talk to me. I am not as unapproachable, as you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LHfunk 422 May 21, 2016 Share May 21, 2016 Biggest sin was not enough Giant Sith Lord/ Blue Diamond Luna. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Music Chart Fan 819 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 I think it was shifting the moral of A Christmas Carol and making Snowfall way more evil than she should have been. That said, a more direct intervention from Luna than the Ghost of Christmas Future usually does is kind of appropriate here given what's at stake, hence validating my favourite musical number so far this season. Scrooge is a d-bag whose actions would have just led to him dying alone because people hated him. Oh, and there is some guilt tripping about Tiny Tim, who may have actually died anyways. Yeah, that isn't the most feel-good subplot of the original story. Snowfall's actions may have actually led to the event leading to the creation of Hearth's Warming Eve being erased, meaning the Windigoes return because they wouldn't have been defeated to begin with. Yikes! Luna had better make this one count, as should the other spirits. Interestingly, I actually had the impression that Snowfall is overall less of a villain than Scrooge is in other versions of A Christmas Carol. I'm not familiar with all of the different versions, but as I recall, Scrooge is usually much more of a selfish miser. He pointedly refuses to give anything to help the poor, makes Cratchit work under bad conditions, only very reluctantly gives Cratchit any time off for the holiday, and it's implied that Cratchit is underpaid, even as he has a family to provide for. Furthermore, when Marley visits Scrooge, Marley shows that he has to suffer eternal punishment because he "robbed the widows and swindled the poor", and says that Scrooge will meet the same fate if he doesn't change his ways, implying that Scrooge has his own past sins to make up for. At the end of the story, Scrooge becomes much more generous with his wealth, perhaps in part because much of it was ill-gotten and in part because Scrooge has to make up for his past misdeeds, lest he suffer eternal punishment like Marley. On the other hand, it seems like Snowfall has just taken her childhood lesson that ponies should "work hard, learn, and use their skills to better Equestria" too seriously. She's not really depicted so much as a selfish miser than as an overly serious loner. We don't see Snowfall refusing to help the poor or hoarding wealth for herself. Perhaps the worst that Snowdash could complain about is that she has to work on Hearth's Warming Eve; she doesn't seem to be desperately poor or to have a family she can barely take care of or to be working under terrible conditions. There's also no indication that Snowfall has serious past misdeeds; even when she travels to the past, she only, again, sees herself as a child taking studying too seriously. Her one big misdeed of trying to erase Hearth Warming's Eve from existence could even be arguably well-intentioned. She says that Equestria will be better off for it (although she also has personal reasons for disliking the holiday), and when she's informed of the dire consequences of following through with it, she says that she never meant for that to happen and didn't understand the consequences. Snowfall essentially just has to learn to lighten up a bit and appreciate the holiday (and, as a side note, not cast world-changing spells without understanding the consequences) and all is right with the world. I agree with you that persuading Snowfall not to cast her spell is much more urgent, and has much direr consequences, than persuading Scrooge to change his ways. Snowfall's spell could bathe Equestria in a blanket of eternal snow; the consequences of Scrooge's miserliness are smaller in scope. But while Scrooge has seemingly spent years as a miser and built up a list of misdeeds, leading to him essentially needing to change his whole outlook on life, I think Snowfall is depicted as being well-intentioned but misguided, leading to one potentially disastrous mistake that she is easily dissuaded from after learning of its consequences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy with the CMB 5,876 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 I don't know...it generally seemed kind of useless and so out-of-place to me. Then seeing Vinyl again...and Luna...grr... Romans 10:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimi Vulpine 219 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 Jesus Christ, this site is becoming more cynical than goddamn /mlp/ and it is just pathetic, we get one of the best executed episodes in a while, great songs yadda yadda (sure it was a Chrismas Carol retelling but who really cares, for the target audience it's probably their first exposure to the story) And of course people just moan and moan and moan. I can understand the complaints about episodes like Newbie Dash or something kinda dull like On Your Marks or even the Crystalling but there's really so little wrong about the exeuction of Hearthswarming Tail that it all just feels like pointless griping. Honestly why do I even come here anymore? Seriously just a season ago I felt I was probably one of the more critical people on this forum but I have always tried to avoid being cynical, and now I Feel like cynicsm is consuming this forum and it's just not freaking fun anymore. You are never going to enjoy another episode as long as Starlight is around because you are going into them expecting to be annoyed by her. I can seriously bet that if ANY OTHER character had been Snowfall Frost you wouldn't of minded that part at all. Also Pinkie's part was a fun, unique song I don't think we ever had a jazzy song in this show before. That's the problem with fandoms in general. They're either overly positive and accepting of anything, even if it's crap, or they're overly negative about something and nitpicks without stop. It's rare to get a balance. 1 My OCs: Kimi Vulpine / Bluebell ------------------- Ask Kimi Anything! ------------------- Praise the Lord Comic Sans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardust* 3,302 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 But SG didn't show hatred. She just wanted to sit the holiday out. And if Fluttershy was able to, so should've SG Starlight did have the option to sit it out. She didn't like the fact that everypony just commercialized it with toys and gifts and decorations. The point of Twilight's story was to show her that there are different ways of looking at the holiday. And like it was said before Twilight left her to make her own decision. As for Fluttershy sitting out of Nightmare Night, that wasn't because she was confused or didn't like the holiday or question why others like the holiday. She didn't participate because she didn't want to slow her friends down who do enjoy it, and she did try it out. They all accepted her decision. Stardust My Art My Non-Pony Art Ask A Pony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarston1 5,963 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 (edited) What's this noise about forcing Starlight to participate? It was 100% optional. Even after Twilight read the story, she still said Starlight was free to join them "if she wanted to". I find it funny that people are complaining about Twilight supposedly "brainwashing" Starlight Glimmer, when the latter has literally done it to who knows how many people, including Twilight and the mane 6 in her reeducation center in the season 5 premiere. Edited May 23, 2016 by cmarston1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesme Rize 15,692 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 I find it funny that people are complaining about Twilight supposedly "brainwashing" Starlight Glimmer, when the latter has literally done it to who knows how many people, including Twilight and the mane 6 in her reeducation center in the season 5 premiere. If what Twilight has done is brainwashing, then everything we do in our forum discussion can be considered brainwashing as well, just because we state our point of view. 1 My OC Mesme Rize: >https://mlpforums.com/page/roleplay-characters/_/mesme-rize-r8777 Thank you Randimaxis for this Wonderful Avatar. Please, don't be afraid to talk to me. I am not as unapproachable, as you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moved to Elsewhere 11,331 May 23, 2016 Share May 23, 2016 Wait people are really saying Twilight brainwashed Starlight at the end? It was up to her to choose if she wanted to celebrate, I don't see where the, "brainwashing" comes from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider float 2,539 May 24, 2016 Share May 24, 2016 What they have done to Christmas Carol. That's the biggest sin. I didn't think anyone could make that story humdrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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