spoiler Did everyone feel sorry for Chrysalis? Or sorry for Starlight?

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

Well she's long been reformed at that point. By 'reformation', I hear the moment one chooses to turn over a new leaf. After that, it's trying to fit in and atone. So to me, it's when Sunset is in that crater that her reformation takes place. And I don't find it anything convincing. Sunset trying to atone and fit in is, though. And it's made many a brony love her.

Yeah but in real life people can be like that. Having instant regret for their actions after they were in pain and  come to terms with what they did wrong. Sunset literally said "I didn't know there was another way." She's been hurting the moment she left the pony world. She was never truly evil.

[Sonic5421 429]

Haha yeah, it certainly does! Thanks

 

No problem. Happy to help anytime.

[Ninjaed 532]

Yeah but in real life people can be like that. Having instant regret for their actions after they were in pain and  come to terms with what they did wrong. Sunset literally said "I didn't know there was another way." She's been hurting the moment she left the pony world. She was never truly evil.

 

She wasn't evil per se, but saying "I didn't know there was another way"...to do what? Obtain power? That's what she had been wanting after all. I find that line odd and devoid of regret over her actual aim, only over the way she'd gone about it.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

She wasn't evil per se, but saying "I didn't know there was another way"...to do what? Obtain power? That's what she had been wanting after all. I find that line odd and devoid of regret over her actual aim, only over the way she'd gone about it.

She was crying before transforming.... That to me is an indication of regret.

[Ninjaed 532]

She was crying before transforming.... That to me is an indication of regret.

 

Hmm she was crying because she was losing control over herself. It certainly shows regret over the way she's gone about doing what she wanted to do, but that's it. She screwed up, hard. Almost lost herself to powers she could not control. Had she said "I didn't mean for this to happen", it would have already fitted better as an awkward apology to the others. But this line of hers, it was all about her. It just struck me as odd and unbefitting.

 

As for Twilight extending her hoof hand in forgiveness, this made Sunset feel indebted to her. Not only has she freed her, but she also showed her forgiveness and friendship. She then spends the next movie (and the time in between) learning all she can about friendship, losing interest in her former aim in the process, as well as becoming more compassionate.

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

In a way, they do feel bad for her since the rest of the Changelings transformed into nicer creatures. They had hoped she would finally cast aside her grudges and become just like them. They hoped she would reform and become the kind of ruler who could lead her people to a new dawn. Unfortunately, Chrysalis' desire for revenge proved too strong for her to overcome. She now sees her own kind as betrayers to her twisted morals, and believes that ponies have taken everything away from her.

 

The Mane Six, princesses, Discord, and the Changelings could have attacked Chrysalis or even tried to stop her from escaping when she rejected Starlight, but instead they chose to let her go. They might have felt that there was no point in continuing a pointless conflict, and think she will succumb because of no longer being able to feed like she used to.

 

And Starlight? She saw in Chrysalis the person she was once. If anyone would pity her for their actions, Starlight would be the biggest one to offer condolences.

 

Oh, and on the subject of Sunset's and Starlight's reformations. Both of them were done relatively quickly in the situations they were located in. That was because of time constraints being an issue. Granted, Sunset had an entire movie to atone for her actions, yet Starlight atoned on a mental scale. We saw that in the finale where she questioned her ability to be a leader, something she feared.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Ganondorf8

[CT-1138 3,184]

Not really. I mean, she's Hellbent on taking over Equestria, a peaceful nation. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. On fact, she kinda reminded me of Zira from Lion King 2 when she batted away Starlight's offer of friendship.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

In a way, they do feel bad for her since the rest of the Changelings transformed into nicer creatures. They had hoped she would finally cast aside her grudges and become just like them. They hoped she would reform and become the kind of ruler who could lead her people to a new dawn. Unfortunately, Chrysalis' desire for revenge proved too strong for her to overcome. She now sees her own kind as betrayers to her twisted morals, and believes that ponies have taken everything away from her.

 

The Mane Six, princesses, Discord, and the Changelings could have attacked Chrysalis or even tried to stop her from escaping when she rejected Starlight, but instead they chose to let her go. They might have felt that there was no point in continuing a pointless conflict, and think she will succumb because of no longer being able to feed like she used to.

 

And Starlight? She saw in Chrysalis the person she was once. If anyone would pity her for their actions, Starlight would be the biggest one to offer condolences.

 

Oh, and on the subject of Sunset's and Starlight's reformations. Both of them were done relatively quickly in the situations they were located in. That was because of time constraints being an issue. Granted, Sunset had an entire movie to atone for her actions, yet Starlight atoned on a mental scale. We saw that in the finale where she questioned her ability to be a leader, something she feared.

They're definitely going to have her be evil for one more season. I have grown more accepting of it... I mean yes, she's my favorite villain. But the theme of friendship and forgiveness is the agenda for the show. I'd rather my queen be reformed than die. So there's three things they can do with Chrysalis. 

 

1.) Reformation 

2.) Goes boom like Sombra

3.) Keeps running away and tries and tries again.

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

They're definitely going to have her be evil for one more season. I have grown more accepting of it... I mean yes, she's my favorite villain. But the theme of friendship and forgiveness is the agenda for the show. I'd rather my queen be reformed than die. So there's three things they can do with Chrysalis. 

 

1.) Reformation 

2.) Goes boom like Sombra

3.) Keeps running away and tries and tries again.

 

You also have to take into consideration that some villains just can't be reformed no matter how hard the Mane Six and their allies try to tell them that there is another path. Look at Tirek for example. The chances of him reforming are slim to none because of a combination of his upbringing and showing no remorse for his actions. With Chrysalis, she didn't go to the same extremes as he did, but then all efforts to make her see the truth haven't worked. I'd say she does have a slim chance of being capable of reformation.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

You also have to take into consideration that some villains just can't be reformed no matter how hard the Mane Six and their allies try to tell them that there is another path. Look at Tirek for example. The chances of him reforming are slim to none because of a combination of his upbringing and showing no remorse for his actions. With Chrysalis, she didn't go to the same extremes as he did, but then all efforts to make her see the truth haven't worked. I'd say she does have a slim chance of being capable of reformation.

I have a strange theory about how "nightmare" powers in this series work. We have gotten Nightmare Moon and Midnight Sparkle and they came about from an intense hatred that led to the transformation... But with Midnight Sparkle it was the result of indecisiveness and fear. What I'm getting at here, is Chrysalis capable of transforming? Name off the top of my head could be Nightmare Monarch. If Hasbro can sell another Chrysalis toy, I will give them that idea for free.

 

EDIT: Aware of Nightmare Rarity by the way, forgot about her.

Edited October 13, 2016 by SunsetBaconDrive

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

I have a strange theory about how "nightmare" powers in this series work. We have gotten Nightmare Moon and Midnight Sparkle and they came about from an intense hatred that led to the transformation... But with Midnight Sparkle it was the result of indecisiveness and fear. What I'm getting at here, is Chrysalis capable of transforming? Name off the top of my head could be Nightmare Monarch. If Hasbro can sell another Chrysalis toy, I will give them that idea for free.

 

EDIT: Aware of Nightmare Rarity by the way, forgot about her.

 

Don't forget that Principal Cinch encouraged--also intimidated--Sci-Twi into using all that magic to win the Friendship Games. That factor along with the other two you mentioned brought about Midnight Sparkle. Nightmare Rarity is a different case as she was the result of the nightmare forces wanting themselves a new leader, and decided to take advantage of Rarity's feeling and made her their new queen.

 

Could Chrysalis transform? I believe so as the other Changelings did. Can she achieve it? That depends on what the writers decide to do for her in the future.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

Don't forget that Principal Cinch encouraged--also intimidated--Sci-Twi into using all that magic to win the Friendship Games. That factor along with the other two you mentioned brought about Midnight Sparkle. Nightmare Rarity is a different case as she was the result of the nightmare forces wanting themselves a new leader, and decided to take advantage of Rarity's feeling and made her their new queen.

 

Could Chrysalis transform? I believe so as the other Changelings did. Can she achieve it? That depends on what the writers decide to do for her in the future.

I was asking since Chrysalis is already filled with hate and malice... A nightmare form isn't really possible right? 

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

I was asking since Chrysalis is already filled with hate and malice... A nightmare form isn't really possible right? 

 

Unless she became something even worse than she already is.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

Unless she became something even worse than she already is.

Maybe she will form the league of anti-friendship. She's gonna need all the help she can get. Breaking into Tarturus and making sure Tirek doesn't betray her would be hard. 

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

Maybe she will form the league of anti-friendship. She's gonna need all the help she can get. Breaking into Tarturus and making sure Tirek doesn't betray her would be hard. 

 

Knowing Tirek, he would steal what magic she possesses.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

Knowing Tirek, he would steal what magic she possesses.

Hopefully the queen did her homework on him then 

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

Hopefully the queen did her homework on him then 

 

Assuming she knows about the existence of Tartarus and the occupants located within. Back to Starlight, I believe she still feels disappointed that Chrysalis rejected her friendship, but at least she tried despite the odds being against her.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

Assuming she knows about the existence of Tartarus and the occupants located within. Back to Starlight, I believe she still feels disappointed that Chrysalis rejected her friendship, but at least she tried despite the odds being against her.

I guess I'm running out of ideas for the discussion But she is also pissed that another successful plan got flushed away. If I worked hard on something...it would depend on the situation if I can let it go. She lost her army in the process. And for a funny note she said to herself.. "No... Light green and cotton candy blue are not my colors."

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

I guess I'm running out of ideas for the discussion But she is also pissed that another successful plan got flushed away. If I worked hard on something...it would depend on the situation if I can let it go. She lost her army in the process. And for a funny note she said to herself.. "No... Light green and cotton candy blue are not my colors."

 

There are plenty of ideas that remain. We've been discussing more about Chrysalis as opposed to Starlight which is why I chose to change directions and focus on her for a bit.

[SunsetBaconDrive 169]

There are plenty of ideas that remain. We've been discussing more about Chrysalis as opposed to Starlight which is why I chose to change directions and focus on her for a bit.

I believe Starlight felt genuinely sorry. Ponies who would be slow to forgive Chrysalis? Twilight and Celestia without a doubt would be careful about reforming her. I think we can conclude that everyone wanted to comfort Starlight... and while everyone was angry with Chrysalis... They would have at least tried. Celestia, Luna, Cadence and Twilight would be more than willing to work relations with Chrysalis if she stuck around. Celestia is not the one to hold a grudge. But after the season 6 finale.. Celestia is going to treat Chrysalis as a lost cause.

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

I believe Starlight felt genuinely sorry. Ponies who would be slow to forgive Chrysalis? Twilight and Celestia without a doubt would be careful about reforming her. I think we can conclude that everyone wanted to comfort Starlight... and while everyone was angry with Chrysalis... They would have at least tried. Celestia, Luna, Cadence and Twilight would be more than willing to work relations with Chrysalis if she stuck around. Celestia is not the one to hold a grudge. But after the season 6 finale.. Celestia is going to treat Chrysalis as a lost cause.

 

I'd have to disagree with you regarding Cadance. I don't think she would be willing to forgive Chrysalis for kidnapping and replacing her to marry Shining Armour. Speaking of him, he wouldn't forgive her either because of what she did to him. The others would have liked it if she had listened to reason, but it seems Chrysalis is lost for now.

[Sonic5421 429]

I believe Starlight felt genuinely sorry. Ponies who would be slow to forgive Chrysalis? Twilight and Celestia without a doubt would be careful about reforming her. I think we can conclude that everyone wanted to comfort Starlight... and while everyone was angry with Chrysalis... They would have at least tried. Celestia, Luna, Cadence and Twilight would be more than willing to work relations with Chrysalis if she stuck around. Celestia is not the one to hold a grudge. But after the season 6 finale.. Celestia is going to treat Chrysalis as a lost cause.

 

I'm going to have to agree on that. Being trapped in a cocoon twice, second time while asleep and having no idea until being told after you've been freed and woken up, Celestia is definitely seeing Chrysalis as a lost cause for what she's put her and the rest of the Royal Family and Elements of Harmony through. If Chrysalis ever shows her face again, Celestia's probably condemning her to Tartarus without a second glance.

 

 

I'd have to disagree with you regarding Cadance. I don't think she would be willing to forgive Chrysalis for kidnapping and replacing her to marry Shining Armour. Speaking of him, he wouldn't forgive her either because of what she did to him. The others would have liked it if she had listened to reason, but it seems Chrysalis is lost for now.

 

I'm saying that the rest of the Royal Family and Elements of Harmony are thinking the same thing. Chrysalis has put them through so much grief now that any hope of probably redeeming her is a lost cause and the only choice left is imprisonment either in the dungeons or in Tartarus since she is not worth saving at this point.

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

 

I'm saying that the rest of the Royal Family and Elements of Harmony are thinking the same thing. Chrysalis has put them through so much grief now that any hope of probably redeeming her is a lost cause and the only choice left is imprisonment either in the dungeons or in Tartarus since she is not worth saving at this point.

 

The only way Chrysalis could be redeemed is if she experienced something that would change her view on things.

[Sonic5421 429]

In a way, they do feel bad for her since the rest of the Changelings transformed into nicer creatures. They had hoped she would finally cast aside her grudges and become just like them. They hoped she would reform and become the kind of ruler who could lead her people to a new dawn. Unfortunately, Chrysalis' desire for revenge proved too strong for her to overcome. She now sees her own kind as betrayers to her twisted morals, and believes that ponies have taken everything away from her.

 

The Mane Six, princesses, Discord, and the Changelings could have attacked Chrysalis or even tried to stop her from escaping when she rejected Starlight, but instead they chose to let her go. They might have felt that there was no point in continuing a pointless conflict, and think she will succumb because of no longer being able to feed like she used to.

 

And Starlight? She saw in Chrysalis the person she was once. If anyone would pity her for their actions, Starlight would be the biggest one to offer condolences.

 

Oh, and on the subject of Sunset's and Starlight's reformations. Both of them were done relatively quickly in the situations they were located in. That was because of time constraints being an issue. Granted, Sunset had an entire movie to atone for her actions, yet Starlight atoned on a mental scale. We saw that in the finale where she questioned her ability to be a leader, something she feared.

 

While it sounds like they pretty much let Chrysalis condemn herself to death because it was not worth fighting her anymore because she had just lost everything and still blamed them for it, when all things are considered, perhaps it was for the best that they hesitated to attack and allowed Starlight a chance to get Chrysalis to repent one last time. Once Chrysalis refused, there was nothing else any of them could do. Chrysalis had chosen her path, and was doomed to follow it to the end, even if it meant coming back to face them and be inevitably destroyed.

[Ganondorf8 11,695]

While it sounds like they pretty much let Chrysalis condemn herself to death because it was not worth fighting her anymore because she had just lost everything and still blamed them for it, when all things are considered, perhaps it was for the best that they hesitated to attack and allowed Starlight a chance to get Chrysalis to repent one last time. Once Chrysalis refused, there was nothing else any of them could do. Chrysalis had chosen her path, and was doomed to follow it to the end, even if it meant coming back to face them and be inevitably destroyed.

 

The one who truly deserves credit here is Discord for showing restraint given what Fluttershy was put through. Had he not held back and allowed Starlight the chance to talk to Chrysalis, she would be a lot more than destroyed. She would be whatever he chooses given his magic is on a much higher level than hers. Hers is a path of destruction and sometimes you have to let someone experience it until they realize there's another way.