spoiler We may know the writer for the finale... (spoiler)

[Philweasel 139]

1 hour ago, AJFan89 said:

It's not, Twilight has jumped the shark after the disaster called Twilight's Kingdom.

Oooh, harsh.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of Twilight saving the world pretty much on her own too. I liked TWABA in part because it was an ensemble piece where everyone did something important, and not just Twilight (and maybe Spike).

If Twilight is helming this finale, can she take a page from Starlight and actually bring along a supporting cast this time? Because if the involvement of the mane six is to provide humorous asides, disappear for almost the entire second part, and then all join her at the end so they can stand in the background and glow, I will start to more harshly question her worth as the main character too.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Philweasel

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

15 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Oooh, harsh.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of Twilight saving the world pretty much on her own too. I liked TWABA in part because it was an ensemble piece where everyone did something important, and not just Twilight (and maybe Spike).

If Twilight is helming this finale, can she take a page from Starlight and actually bring along a supporting cast this time? Because if the involvement of the mane six is to provide humorous asides, disappear for almost the entire second part, and then all join her at the end so they can stand in the background and glow, I will start to more harshly question her worth as the main character too.

If the villain is some super powerful pony who nearly DESTROYED Equestria, then the only mane 6 member who will even be half decent would be Rainbow Dash and Twilight. The rest would literally be fodder who would make Twilight feel the need to protect them in a fight.

if the mane 5 are going to be important, they should be more a B plot that is needed to help Twilight who is busy trying to defeat the big bad.

I would honestly love a finale where the mane 5 are taken, and Twilight and Starlight are the two main heroes, as those two have a good dynamic.

Edited July 24, 2017 by ryanmahaffe

[Philweasel 139]

9 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

If the villain is some super powerful pony who nearly DESTROYED Equestria, than the only mane 6 member who will even be half decent would be Rainbow Dash and Twilight

if the mane 5 are going to be important, they should be more a B plot that is needed to help Twilight who is busy trying to defeat the big bad.

But this isn't DBZ, the ability to win a fight has NEVER been useful against a major foe. Twilight's power is meaningless against an enemy that outclasses her, and then she has to rely on her common sense, her moral fortitude and her practical skills... where she is still significantly inferior to many of her friends.

I mean frankly you could have given her role in Twilight's Kingdom to Rarity and I'm not sure the plot would have gone any differently. In fact it might have even gone better, Rarity's skills in combat have always come across as superior to Twilight's. And she didn't accomplish much in "Canterlot Wedding" bar finding Cadance, which Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash could have likely done better given they can fly with her. And Applejack would have smacked some sense into Starlight Glimmer's skull twice as fast in "Cutie Remark". And Fluttershy was pretty much the hero in "Cutie Map".

Edited July 24, 2017 by Philweasel

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, Philweasel said:

But this isn't DBZ, the ability to win a fight has NEVER been useful against a major foe. Twilight's power is meaningless against an enemy that outclasses her, and then she has to rely on her common sense, her moral fortitude and her practical skills... where she is still significantly inferior to many of her friends.

I mean frankly you could have given her role in Twilight's Kingdom to Rarity and I'm not sure the plot would have gone any differently. In fact it might have even gone better, Rarity's skills in combat have always come across as superior to Twilight's. And she didn't accomplish much in "Canterlot Wedding" bar finding Cadance, which Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash could have likely done better given they can fly with her. And Applejack would have smacked some sense into Starlight Glimmer's skull twice as fast in "Cutie Remark". And Fluttershy was pretty much the hero in "Cutie Map".

But still, if Twilight and the mane 6 get backed into a corner by the villain (assuming he isn't a chrysalis level idiot who just laughs all the time) Twilights only option is to defend herself

It's not that I don't mind the mane 5 being a big part of the 2 parters, I just think if we are going to have an in your face villain, they should be doing something else

I may be biased because I am one of those that feel the majority of mid season episodes focus on characters not named Twilight so I am usually happy she gets center stage in the 2 parters.

[Philweasel 139]

17 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

But still, if Twilight and the mane 6 get backed into a corner by the villain (assuming he isn't a chrysalis level idiot who just laughs all the time) Twilights only option is to defend herself

It's not that I don't mind the mane 5 being a big part of the 2 parters, I just think if we are going to have an in your face villain, they should be doing something else

I may be biased because I am one of those that feel the majority of mid season episodes focus on characters not named Twilight so I am usually happy she gets center stage in the 2 parters.

The others can defend themselves though. Rarity, Applejack and Rainbow Dash are all athletic enough to run if cornered, and Rarity and Rainbow Dash are pretty handy in a fight against mooks (poor Applejack isn't really, but she's a good leader at least). Fluttershy has the stare, which is actually pretty powerful in a pinch, and Pinkie is...

...Pinkie.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Philweasel

[Thrond 3,257]

55 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

If the villain is some super powerful pony who nearly DESTROYED Equestria, then the only mane 6 member who will even be half decent would be Rainbow Dash and Twilight. The rest would literally be fodder who would make Twilight feel the need to protect them in a fight.

if the mane 5 are going to be important, they should be more a B plot that is needed to help Twilight who is busy trying to defeat the big bad.

I would honestly love a finale where the mane 5 are taken, and Twilight and Starlight are the two main heroes, as those two have a good dynamic.

See, I think that an episode of Twilight & friends frantically searching for a way to defeat an opponent out of their league sounds like a lot of fun, whereas an episode long fight between two extremely powerful forces just seems a bit dull to me - it's why I greatly prefer "The Crystal Empire" to "The Cutie Re-Mark." The former just feels to me like it gives more room for characters to breathe. 

[Philweasel 139]

5 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

See, I think that an episode of Twilight & friends frantically searching for a way to defeat an opponent out of their league sounds like a lot of fun, whereas an episode long fight between two extremely powerful forces just seems a bit dull to me - it's why I greatly prefer "The Crystal Empire" to "The Cutie Re-Mark." The former just feels to me like it gives more room for characters to breathe. 

I admit that while I loved Cutie Remark, it is heavily over stuffed. Could have done with another episode, give more time to each alternate world.

[Goat-kun 2,501]

2 hours ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

Well, hopefully Starlight is off in the human world in order to prevent her from being in the finale; that would be one GOOD thing to come out of her stealing the show from mirror magic

Well hopefully H-Bro put a leash on this one so that we may actually start getting a proper GoH-worthy heroic narrative with the main characters.

2 hours ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

 

 

 

I rest my case with his waifu business and obviously underwhelming creative capacity

[Thrond 3,257]

8 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

I admit that while I loved Cutie Remark, it is heavily over stuffed. Could have done with another episode, give more time to each alternate world.

Half of the episode is stone cold serious, and its main priority seems to be bombastic imagery. It's why I'm glad Haber scaled his subsequent two-partners way back to focus on characters.  

[Hierok 11,829]

5 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Half of the episode is stone cold serious, and its main priority seems to be bombastic imagery. It's why I'm glad Haber scaled his subsequent two-partners way back to focus on characters.  

Isn't a finale suspected to be serious?

[Thrond 3,257]

5 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Isn't a finale suspected to be serious?

It doesn't have to be. 

[Philweasel 139]

5 minutes ago, Hierok said:

Isn't a finale suspected to be serious?

I think there's room for both. The show is very silly, so it can be nice when things get more serious, but it's nice to have both real threat and a bit of fun.

That's why I'm a little tired of 'Twilight only' two parters. On her own she's incredibly earnest and serious, and that tends to lead to very straight heroic tales without a great deal of heart. I like 'Twilight's Kingdom' and 'Cutie Remark', but I feel a little of the show's character was lost when it became 'twilight angsting about duty to spike, magical duel, friendship speech', with no character development for anyone but her.

[LeafFerret 3,382]

1 hour ago, Philweasel said:

Oooh, harsh.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of Twilight saving the world pretty much on her own too. I liked TWABA in part because it was an ensemble piece where everyone did something important, and not just Twilight (and maybe Spike).

If Twilight is helming this finale, can she take a page from Starlight and actually bring along a supporting cast this time? Because if the involvement of the mane six is to provide humorous asides, disappear for almost the entire second part, and then all join her at the end so they can stand in the background and glow, I will start to more harshly question her worth as the main character too.

That the main problem that I have with the show, the writers won't show the Remane 5 their full potential and rather have them as Twilight's 5 assistants and have them beside her to look good while Twilight gets most of the credit, not to mention always following her and not questioning her decisions and leadership. The fact that they've been doing this for 7 seasons is even more concerning. The thing with Starlight is that she's the only one to stand up to Twilight and realise that Twilight is not always right and isn't always better. If the writers were to give her more screen time, I think the show will go better than what it is at the moment.

Edited July 24, 2017 by AJFan89

[Philweasel 139]

Just now, AJFan89 said:

That the main problem that I have with the show, the writers won't show the Remane 5 their full potential and rather have them as Twilight's 5 assistants and have them beside her to look good while Twilight gets most of the credit, not to mention always following her and not questioning her decisions. The fact that they've been doing this for 7 seasons is even more concerning. The thing with Starlight is that she's the only one to stand up to Twilight and realise that Twilight is not always right and isn't always better. If the writers were to give her more screen time, I think the show will go better than what it is at the moment.

I know it will never happen, but I've always wanted to see a Remane 5 two parter. No sparkly Princesses, just those five, trying to save the world on their own without an OP magic user to back them up.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

4 hours ago, Philweasel said:

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of Twilight saving the world pretty much on her own too. I liked TWABA in part because it was an ensemble piece where everyone did something important, and not just Twilight (and maybe Spike).

It sum up my problems with Twilight Kingdom, the other mane 5 are useless beside Rainbow Power Triggers. i remember someone mentioned about a finale for 'Mane 6', they mentioned Twilight Kingdom... what a joke... Some people hates S6 finale because it's not "Mane 6", then praise Twilight Kingdom, a finale made solely for Twilight's character development...

[CypherHoof 26,479]

5 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

It sum up my problems with Twilight Kingdom, the other mane 5 are useless beside Rainbow Power Triggers. i remember someone mentioned about a finale for 'Mane 6', they mentioned Twilight Kingdom... what a joke... Some people hates S6 finale because it's not "Mane 6", then praise Twilight Kingdom, a finale made solely for Twilight's character development...

Would love to see a finale centered not around the OP Power Ponies but around say Flutters and RD. Perhaps something to do with a non-griffon flying race, where both Fluttershy's abilities to speak with non-ponies and RD's flight skills (maybe even with the Wonderbolts thrown in) are needed to get their cooperation while the not-actually-captured-for-once Alicorns and Starlight are finding that zappy magic solutions just go harmlessly THOUGH shadow ponies and hit the wall behind them... Could possibly throw in Shiny Thorax too, as the solution to the shadow ponies lies somewhere in the Changeling kingdom...

[cmarston1 5,953]

This season so far has been really good, so I hope that the finale can end being enjoyable as well, but with Haber back for it, I have my doubts given his track record for the show.

[Philweasel 139]

39 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Would love to see a finale centered not around the OP Power Ponies but around say Flutters and RD. Perhaps something to do with a non-griffon flying race, where both Fluttershy's abilities to speak with non-ponies and RD's flight skills (maybe even with the Wonderbolts thrown in) are needed to get their cooperation while the not-actually-captured-for-once Alicorns and Starlight are finding that zappy magic solutions just go harmlessly THOUGH shadow ponies and hit the wall behind them... Could possibly throw in Shiny Thorax too, as the solution to the shadow ponies lies somewhere in the Changeling kingdom...

As I mentioned, Fluttershy was kinda the hero of 'Cutie Map', so even though she's my best pony it seems unfair to see her lead in another. I am however a huge fan of "The Flight of the Alicorn" so I would adore seeing Rarity rock an adventure story.

...it's already fairly obvious this is going to be at least primarily a Twilight finale though... *pouts angrily*

[Peter16373 103]

I actually want the villain to be so powerful that not even Rainbow Power can beat it so Twilight and every powerful magic user (Starlight, the Princesses, Discord, and etc.) has to the stall villain while the mane 5 along with a few relevant secondary characters tries to find a specific spell to seal or defeat the villain. Either that or somehow a character learns a special spell that can conveniently stall the villain just long enough for everybody else to find a specific spell and set it up (which is much more possible since there is no way the villain is gonna be that powerful.) Although neither of these choices are likely to happen at all.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Peter16373

[Thrond 3,257]

12 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

I actually want the villain to be so powerful that not even Rainbow Power can beat it so Twilight and every powerful magic user (Starlight, the Princesses, Discord, and etc.) has to the stall villain while the mane 5 along with a few relevant secondary characters tries to find a specific spell to seal or defeat the villain. Either that or somehow a character learns a special spell that can conveniently stall the villain just long enough for everybody else to find a specific spell and set it up (which is much more possible since there is no way the villain is gonna be that powerful.) Although neither of these choices are likely to happen at all.

That actually sounds like it could be pretty fun, though I don't really want Twilight to be separated from the group like that. 

[Peter16373 103]

20 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

That actually sounds like it could be pretty fun, though I don't really want Twilight to be separated from the group like that. 

Well than I guess we could have Twilight in the searching for the spell group since they need atleast one character that knows how to cast complicated spells would that be better?

Edited July 24, 2017 by Peter16373

[Goat-kun 2,501]

6 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

It sum up my problems with Twilight Kingdom, the other mane 5 are useless beside Rainbow Power Triggers. i remember someone mentioned about a finale for 'Mane 6', they mentioned Twilight Kingdom... what a joke... Some people hates S6 finale because it's not "Mane 6", then praise Twilight Kingdom, a finale made solely for Twilight's character development...

Do I really need to do this? Yes, apparently I do. As I've stated a while ago most Starlight hate is not about Starlight. This logic can be applied to Twilight Kingdom: it seems that many have not enjoyed it cause it's about Twilight but because it's an amped up magical fight between her and a badass old villain of some renown. If it was Twilight doing To Where and Back Again I trust the reception would not be as positive as it'd be practically the same shit but without the badass fight.

 

I mean, seriously? Twilight's development? It's kinda crap. And before some challenged goof gets a chance to write some more of the stupidity that's looming over my post: no, her development being crap is not her fault. And neither is the sidelining of other Mane members.

 

The solution is so very simple, and it does not involve contrived plots of other contemporary characters: use fantasy elements at your disposal and let them become useful. This can not only add to them but even fix a few of Twilight's little big problems.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

10 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

It doesn't have to be. 

Well it should be, we get like 20 episodes a season for light hearted fun, I would prefer that the 2 parters remain the serious epics and it is tiring to see people trying to take it away. Not saying you specifically, but still. The show is supposed to tie slice of life with more mature action adventure themes, and I feel they barely stuck to that at all in season 6 with the more low key two parters, I and most other people enjoy the high stakes epic two parters, so that's what I want premieres and finales to remain, already lost a 2 part premiere, last thing I want is for a more laid back finale like the Crystalling

9 hours ago, Philweasel said:

I think there's room for both. The show is very silly, so it can be nice when things get more serious, but it's nice to have both real threat and a bit of fun.

That's why I'm a little tired of 'Twilight only' two parters. On her own she's incredibly earnest and serious, and that tends to lead to very straight heroic tales without a great deal of heart. I like 'Twilight's Kingdom' and 'Cutie Remark', but I feel a little of the show's character was lost when it became 'twilight angsting about duty to spike, magical duel, friendship speech', with no character development for anyone but her.

Well I am tired of Twilight having like no episodes throughout seasons, she is a supporting role 90% of the time in mid season episodes, usually ending up with like 1 or 2 episodes per season. So I like when the big important episodes focus on her, the main character.

Edited July 24, 2017 by ryanmahaffe

[CastletonSnob 3,026]

Don't need to worry about Haber returning as story editor. I think it was confirmed the Lady Writers will stay story editors for S8.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, VG_Addict said:

Don't need to worry about Haber returning as story editor. I think it was confirmed the Lady Writers will stay story editors for S8.

Good, they are the best writers/editors this series has ever had.

I was never worried about Haber though, I was worried Meghan would come back as story editor.