spoiler We may know the writer for the finale... (spoiler)

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

35 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

If it was Twilight doing To Where and Back Again I trust the reception would not be as positive as it'd be practically the same shit but without the badass fight.

Still a better rating than Starlight, a non-mane character, isnt it? You can argue Twilight is a MAIN character, it will be more... acceptable. 

35 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

The solution is so very simple, and it does not involve contrived plots of other contemporary characters: use fantasy elements at your disposal and let them become useful. This can not only add to them but even fix a few of Twilight's little big problems.

Twilight's characters already have many big problems after she became an Alicorn, and they are not fixed. 

1 hour ago, Peter16373 said:

 

I actually want the villain to be so powerful that not even Rainbow Power can beat it so Twilight and every powerful magic user (Starlight, the Princesses, Discord, and etc.) has to the stall villain while the mane 5 along with a few relevant secondary characters tries to find a specific spell to seal or defeat the villain. Either that or somehow a character learns a special spell that can conveniently stall the villain just long enough for everybody else to find a specific spell and set it up (which is much more possible since there is no way the villain is gonna be that powerful.) Although neither of these choices are likely to happen at all.

 

That is the problem, where just a few member of a party in video games are actually GROWING STRONGER, matching with enemy level, the other just stay the same and the boss must be bigger and stronger :)). How about 'buff' the mane 5 a little bit, like they did with Humane 6 in EQG? 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Philweasel 139]

23 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

Well it should be, we get like 20 episodes a season for light hearted fun, I would prefer that the 2 parters remain the serious epics and it is tiring to see people trying to take it away. Not saying you specifically, but still. The show is supposed to tie slice of life with more mature action adventure themes, and I feel they barely stuck to that at all in season 6 with the more low key two parters, I and most other people enjoy the high stakes epic two parters, so that's what I want premieres and finales to remain, already lost a 2 part premiere, last thing I want is for a more laid back finale like the Crystalling

Well I am tired of Twilight having like no episodes throughout seasons, she is a supporting role 90% of the time in mid season episodes, usually ending up with like 1 or 2 episodes per season. So I like when the big important episodes focus on her, the main character.

Season 5 and 6 did seem a little low on Twilight episodes, but Season 7 has "Celestial Advice" "A Flurry of Emotions" "Once Upon a Zeppelin" and a substantial supporting role in "A Royal Problem" and likely "Fame and Misfortune" (if it's not entirely her episode). I'm pretty sure that gives her an easy lead this season.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

7 minutes ago, Philweasel said:

Season 5 and 6 did seem a little low on Twilight episodes, but Season 7 has "Celestial Advice" "A Flurry of Emotions" "Once Upon a Zeppelin" and a substantial supporting role in "A Royal Problem" and likely "Fame and Misfortune" (if it's not entirely her episode). I'm pretty sure that gives her an easy lead this season.

Well yeah because season 7 is just better at everything than season 6

Like I said, it's not that I don't want the mane 5 to have a role, I just think that Twilight should be the central character in two parters.

[Philweasel 139]

Just now, ryanmahaffe said:

Well yeah because season 7 is just better at everything than season 6

Like I said, it's not that I don't want the mane 5 to have a role, I just think that Twilight should be the central character in two parters.

For the record, I entirely agree.

But I just want her to have other characters along as more than cheerleaders.

[Nohate 36]

33 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

Still a better rating than Starlight, a non-mane character, isnt it? You can argue Twilight is a MAIN character, it will be more... acceptable. 

Twilight's characters already have many big problems after she became an Alicorn, and they are not fixed. 

That is the problem, where just a few member of a party in video games are actually GROWING STRONGER, matching with enemy level, the other just stay the same and the boss must be bigger and stronger :)). How about 'buff' the mane 5 a little bit, like they did with Humane 6 in EQG? 

 

 

Well the thing is it's kinda hard to do that since gap between the top magic users and the normal magic users is HUGE. Normal unicorns can't even move the sun only top tier magic users like the alicorns and Starswirl can move the sun due to raw magic power. Normal unicorns best feat was from like Rarity making patterns with the clouds on a town to city scale. So if you take that into consideration you either have to be a prodigy like Starlight to reach that level or wield something like the Elements of Harmony or a magical geode like they did in EQG.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Nohate

[Philweasel 139]

Just now, Nohate said:

Well the thing is it's kinda hard to do that since gap between the top magic users and the normal magic users are HUGE. Normal unicorns can't even move the sun only top tier magic users like the alicorns and Starswirl can move the sun due to raw magic power. So if you take that into consideration you either have to be a prodigy like Starlight to reach that level or wield something like the Elements of Harmony or a magical geode like they did in EQG.

Yeah, but as I've previously noted they've never defeated a villain with their natural abilities anyway. They've pretty much always needed some bullshit magical superweapon, love powerup or convincing speech. You could give Granny Smith the "Crystal Egg Timer of Friendship" and Full Power Tirek is pretty much toast. Almost all the two parters have been about finding said Egg Timer, which doesn't necessarily require phenomenal cosmic power.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 minute ago, Philweasel said:

Yeah, but as I've previously noted they've never defeated a villain with their natural abilities anyway. They've pretty much always needed some bullshit magical superweapon, love powerup or convincing speech. You could give Granny Smith the "Crystal Egg Timer of Friendship" and Full Power Tirek is pretty much toast. Almost all the two parters have been about finding said Egg Timer, which doesn't necessarily require phenomenal cosmic power.

I wouldn't mind seeing Rainbow Power again though, provided we get more explanation about it. Or the tree itself.

[Philweasel 139]

Just now, ryanmahaffe said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Rainbow Power again though, provided we get more explanation about it. Or the tree itself.

But... so ugly... and dumb looking...

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 minute ago, Philweasel said:

But... so ugly... and dumb looking...

I only hate a few of the desings...and by a few, I mean all of them besides Twilight and Rainbow Dash

Still, despite how dumb it is, what the tree is and what Rainbow Power is as well is a huge mystery and I would love to see it explained more.

I mean the tree is basically just a nonsentient god. So hearing about it's origins would be interesting

Edited July 24, 2017 by ryanmahaffe

[Philweasel 139]

I will accept Rainbow Power on the soul condition that this becomes canon.

[Megas 27,136]

On 7/23/2017 at 11:08 AM, AlexanderThrond said:

If this means Haber has someone else with him to make the story parts more fleshed out, then my excitement knows no bounds. I adore both of Haber's season 6 two-parters; "The Crystalling" is low-stakes but the character work in it is just marvellous and it does a lot of things I found really refreshing, while "To Where and Back Again" neglects its story a little but is just as delightful with regards to character work. I maintain that he might be the best character writer on the show in recent years, so if he has someone onboard to deal with his biggest weak spot, we could have something incredible on our hands.

I do kinda hope it doesn't have Starlight in the main position, but Haber writes Starlight really well, so that might not be so bad.

After seeing his work as story editor, I'm convinced Josh Haber cared least about the characters. It felt like he cared more about stupid gimmicks more than anything else

Edited July 24, 2017 by Whompy Whomperson

[CypherHoof 26,479]

2 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

I only hate a few of the desings...and by a few, I mean all of them besides Twilight and Rainbow Dash

Still, despite how dumb it is, what the tree is and what Rainbow Power is as well is a huge mystery and I would love to see it explained more.

I mean the tree is basically just a nonsentient god. So hearing about it's origins would be interesting

Not entirely sure it is nonsentient. for all know it could be Starswirl

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

Not entirely sure it is nonsentient. for all know it could be Starswirl

Well maybe it is senient, that's why we need to know more about it :P

[KH7672 1,604]

2 minutes ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

After seeing his work as story editor, I'm convinced Josh Haber cared least about the characters. It felt like he cared more about stupid gimmicks more than anything else

I don't know about that. I wonder if he just wasn't an assertive story editor. As long as the writer didn't write something overly offensive he let them role with the story. Not saying it's a good thing but I don't agree with your opinion of him. Looking back at any of his stories S4-S6 while some may not have been as high stakes as people wanted not once can you look at his stories and say "man, he wrote said character horribly." The only time I can think is Flim and Flam in Leap of Faith being actual con-men now but it helped propel Applejack's key episode nicely for her character.

[Peter16373 103]

6 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

Well maybe it is senient, that's why we need to know more about it

Didn't the comic MLP Annual 2017 Guardians of Harmony confirm the Castle of Friendship which grew from the Tree of Harmony to be sentient?

[Philweasel 139]

13 minutes ago, ryanmahaffe said:

Well maybe it is senient, that's why we need to know more about it

Well it tried to pretend the castle it built Twilight was all shiny and special, but one look from Maud and we find it was apparently built on the cheap from common gems.

Bet that rainbow power fell off the back of a van too.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Philweasel

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Just now, Philweasel said:

Well it tried to pretend the castle it built Twilight was all shiny and special, but one look from Maud and we find it was apparently built on the cheap from common gems.

Bet that rainbow power fell of the back of a van too.

Only thing it said was special was the map. I just think Maud is hard to impress. As for Rainbow Power...maybee

 

2 minutes ago, Peter16373 said:

Didn't the comic MLP Annual 2017 Guardians of Harmony confirm the Castle of Friendship which grew from the Tree of Harmony to be sentient?

Don't know, I don't really think GoH is canon though so no idea.

[Philweasel 139]

Just now, ryanmahaffe said:

Don't know, I don't really think GoH is canon though so no idea.

I hope not. Even as a enthusiastic defender of the comics, that annual was dumb.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

14 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

I don't know about that. I wonder if he just wasn't an assertive story editor. As long as the writer didn't write something overly offensive he let them role with the story. Not saying it's a good thing but I don't agree with your opinion of him. Looking back at any of his stories S4-S6 while some may not have been as high stakes as people wanted not once can you look at his stories and say "man, he wrote said character horribly." The only time I can think is Flim and Flam in Leap of Faith being actual con-men now but it helped propel Applejack's key episode nicely for her character.

I wasn't a big fan of Rarity in Simple Ways, but other than that, yeah I enjoyed his episodes.

[Megas 27,136]

15 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

I don't know about that. I wonder if he just wasn't an assertive story editor. As long as the writer didn't write something overly offensive he let them role with the story. Not saying it's a good thing but I don't agree with your opinion of him. Looking back at any of his stories S4-S6 while some may not have been as high stakes as people wanted not once can you look at his stories and say "man, he wrote said character horribly." The only time I can think is Flim and Flam in Leap of Faith being actual con-men now but it helped propel Applejack's key episode nicely for her character.

Even back in S4, he had a lot of episodes like that. I actually think Leap of Faith is one of his weaker episodes, but Simple Ways is probably the biggest offender, and one of the worst episodes in the show. It banked entirely on Rarity and AJ swapping roles, but as a result, completely bastardizes Rarity(funny considering she's his favorite). I'm not saying he's an awful writer or anything, he's written some great episodes like Castlemania and Stranger Than Fanfiction, but he does some really stupid and careless stuff that makes some of his work a chore to watch, and his role as Story Editor really reflects this, as there were tons of episodes that relied on a single joke/gimmicks to go anywhere over everything else

Edited July 24, 2017 by Whompy Whomperson

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, Whompy Whomperson said:

After seeing his work as story editor, I'm convinced Josh Haber cared least about the characters. It felt like he cared more about stupid gimmicks more than anything else

He seemed kinda hands-off as a story edtor, but when he actually had a writing credit in season 6, I really liked what he did with characterization. 

 

3 hours ago, Peter16373 said:

Well than I guess we could have Twilight in the searching for the spell group since they need atleast one character that knows how to cast complicated spells would that be better?

That sounds great. 

3 hours ago, ryanmahaffe said:

Well it should be, we get like 20 episodes a season for light hearted fun, I would prefer that the 2 parters remain the serious epics and it is tiring to see people trying to take it away. Not saying you specifically, but still. The show is supposed to tie slice of life with more mature action adventure themes, and I feel they barely stuck to that at all in season 6 with the more low key two parters, I and most other people enjoy the high stakes epic two parters, so that's what I want premieres and finales to remain, already lost a 2 part premiere, last thing I want is for a more laid back finale like the Crystalling

6

Putting aside that "The Crystalling" is a contender for my favourite two-parter, I'm fond of episodes like "The Return of Harmony" or "The Crystal Empire" which find a balance between the two. The stakes are real and taken seriously, but we also get a lot of fun character moments in-between. If it has to be dead serious, I'd prefer something like "Twilight's Kingdom" which at least has a little novelty and is rooted in a sympathetic character arc. Personally, the last thing I want is something action-heavy like "Cutie Re-mark," but to each their own.

2 hours ago, VG_Addict said:

Don't need to worry about Haber returning as story editor. I think it was confirmed the Lady Writers will stay story editors for S8.

Ugh. Is it so hard to get a story editor who is hands-on without draining all of the life out of half of the episodes? 

[Goat-kun 2,502]

2 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Still a better rating than Starlight, a non-mane character, isnt it? You can argue Twilight is a MAIN character, it will be more... acceptable.

Of course. That's the way it should be, or are you gonna tell me the good ol' sob story about how mean we all are for liking Mane characters better?

2 hours ago, Lambdadelta said:

Twilight's characters already have many big problems after she became an Alicorn, and they are not fixed.

Oh, I see. These bad, naughty problems are quite persistent, aren't they? Guess fixing them is quite impossible. Better promote a different character cause that will surely not exacerbate the whole thing. It will surely give that extra oomph to the franchise, and when she gets screwed we can just create another one, and another one, and another one. As long as they're good to some people, right? I mean, who cares about specific characters these days? A bit hyperbolic, I agree. But that's how one starts to see things over such a long period. In the end, this is also on our glorious writers ... and on our community leaders. They made this shit worse.

 

Twilight will not be fixed by Celestial passivity but by active, smart use of her abilities and carefully placed restrictions within lore. She needs to be put down by the weight of the world so that her personality may shine once more, along with the power of her friends. And since she is the poster pony of MLP it should be in our common interest that she is made as interesting and as popular as possible.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

15 hours ago, Philweasel said:

(poor Applejack isn't really, but she's a good leader at least
 

She WAS you mean; S5 onward has throttled AJ's intelligence down majorly; look at her in episodes like AJ's day off, Honest apple or Pony point of view. Its like she got hit in the head with a shovel while drunk.

I kind of wonder if this has anything to do with a "vegeta" style character to twilight showing up (Starlight to Pony twi, and sunset to human twilight) and taking over the role of "Secondary leader".

15 hours ago, Philweasel said:

The others can defend themselves though. Rarity, Applejack and Rainbow Dash are all athletic enough to run if cornered, and Rarity and Rainbow Dash are pretty handy in a fight against mooks (poor Applejack isn't really, but she's a good leader at least). Fluttershy has the stare, which is actually pretty powerful in a pinch, and Pinkie is...

...Pinkie.

Eh, none of that really matters against villains besides chrysalis: She's basically the ONLY villain who's power mainly stemmed from  having an army behind her, giving the writers a "Variable" power level to throw at the heroes (you can have the weaker members fight maybe 1-2 changelings and then have twilight fighting about 20-30), all the other villains have been "SIngular God entity). One of the reasons why they're probably going with storm king having an army in the Movie-- the other 5 can at least fight some mooks to make them seem like they're helping out.

I mean, this is probably why Twilight got MAJORLY nerfed in equestria girls in the power department LOE onward-- She has telekinesis, and that's IT, the most basic of Unicorn magic, while the others got legitimate magical abilities. I mean, to give another example, twilgiht was actually NERFED in power ponies by her Super hero form (matter horn's freeze ray is hilarious weaker than everything that twilight's shown up to that point) while the others still got super powers to equal that

As thing stand, its just really, REALLY hard to justify the other 5 as anything other than a cheer squad for Twilight or Glimmer when push comes to shove, which just annoys people even MORE as "power batteries" is a pretty insulting job (Look at how remane 5 fans were irked at the end of Friendship games for example)

 

The thing is, back in S1/S2, even S3 this wasn't really so bad, as twilight's spells screwed up constantly and she seemed alot weaker than she is now (Look at how she would rarely teleport on demand back then and it seemed to tire her out, while now she can SPAM teleports all over equestria itself), and she'd fail a ton with her magic. Back then, it really wasn't so unbelievable to think of the others as being able to keep up, akin to a Level 3 Wizard in a D&D party being unreliable and needing help. But power creep set in and twilight was shown to be more and more powerful with her magic, and now its more like a Level 12 wizard with level 4 fighters.

About the only thing that really kept the others relevent in two parters was them being needed to power the EOH, and with that gone... well, yeah, not a whole lot left for them without blatantly hitting a "NO MAGIC" button like in The cutie mark map, or having twilight Literally forget about her powers (like when the vines cornered her in Princess twilight sparkle).

 

 

I want to see more of the other 5 being useful, and in order to do that I think they need to specifically go in with an intent of "this is a group effort", which the writers tend to find too hard or inconvenient.

 

3 hours ago, ryanmahaffe said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Rainbow Power again though, provided we get more explanation about it. Or the tree itself.

If we see rainbow power again, I'd want it to be visually redesigned. I like the CONCEPT, but it was garrish and just ugly, sadly.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

7 minutes ago, Unlikeable Pony said:

If we see rainbow power again, I'd want it to be visually redesigned. I like the CONCEPT, but it was garrish and just ugly, sadly.

I really liked The rainbow power in Rainbow Rocks, it was really understated compared to the S4 finale. It also seemed to give them powers of their own; maybe we'll see something like that in the future?

Edited July 24, 2017 by ShootingStar159

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

3 hours ago, Philweasel said:

Yeah, but as I've previously noted they've never defeated a villain with their natural abilities anyway. They've pretty much always needed some bullshit magical superweapon, love powerup or convincing speech. You could give Granny Smith the "Crystal Egg Timer of Friendship" and Full Power Tirek is pretty much toast. Almost all the two parters have been about finding said Egg Timer, which doesn't necessarily require phenomenal cosmic power.

While not the best example, twilight's kingdom had simply getting through the forest more or less the way to "beat" the problem; putting the EOH back in the tree was the "Win" condition, but The real hurdle to doing that was making it through the Forest itself and its dangers.

They could always have a situation where they need to make it through a maze or other such fortress to claim a macguffin or destroy and object to beat the villain, and Plot tailor the Trials and defenses so that they're best handled by the mane six. Kind of like the Pilot but done a little better, such as having one area guarded by a Monster that fluttershy deals with, and having a security system/defense later on that needs Dash to fly through to break or turn off (like a bunch of magically produced electrical storms in a room with a central orb in the middle that creates them, that dash could fly through and smash).
(On that note, I think that's what The crystal empire SHOULD have been, instead of twilight leaving the others behind while she went off on a solo adventure, have had her learn her lesson gradually as each of the six was required to beat defenses left by sombra that she alone couldn't beat, with her complaining the entire time until she had an epiphany)

Alternatively, do a "dwindling party" Kind of thing where the villain is a GROUP of villains, with a bunch of Lieutinants to the mane villain of differing abilities and the mane six each break off one by one to deal with them while the others continue on ahead, kind of like how in the end of Outlaw star the group ended up dueling specific foes or how in one piece each of the straw hats usually break up to fight villains of differing strengths.

2 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I really liked The rainbow power in Rainbow Rocks, it was really understated compared to the S4 finale.

I think everyone liked how RR did the EOH
That being said, I hesitate to specifically call it rainbow power, since it was just how the mane six were exhibiting their EOH magic at that time while rainbow power explicitly was in the box in equestria.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Unlikeable Pony