movies/tv If there are any LOTR fans here, I have a question about the Dead Men of Dunharrow...

[TigerGeekGuy 4,659]

This question has been nagging me for awhile now, I have to ask it. Can the Dead Men of Dunharrow, these guys:

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be threatened by any other weapons? Is their curse specifically dealing with the one heir wielding the sword of Isildur, meaning that only he may command and interact with them? Does that mean that no other magical weapons that have been shown to be capable of threatening the undead or spiritual entities, such as the Keyblade from the Kingdom Hearts video game series and the Dragonslayer from Berserk, will work? I don't know if there are other magical weapons within the realm of LOTR that will work, as I can't seem to find any mention of such a thing.

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

1 hour ago, TigerGeekGuy said:

This question has been nagging me for awhile now, I have to ask it. Can the Dead Men of Dunharrow, these guys:

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be threatened by any other weapons? Is their curse specifically dealing with the one heir wielding the sword of Isildur, meaning that only he may command and interact with them? Does that mean that no other magical weapons that have been shown to be capable of threatening the undead or spiritual entities, such as the Keyblade from the Kingdom Hearts video game series and the Dragonslayer from Berserk, will work? I don't know if there are other magical weapons within the realm of LOTR that will work, as I can't seem to find any mention of such a thing.

Keyblade and Dragonslayer would probably not work because they don't exist within the universe of LotR. 

 

I don't think there would be any weapons per se that could stop them, however, there are others who wield supernatural powers who could probably stop them or at least fight them. Sauron (also known as Mairon when he was a Maia in service of Aulë the smith, one of the Valar) was known to be a necromancer and could summon the dead. Melkor (Morgoth, Sauron's master), should he have been around in that world during those times would probably have been able to stop them as well. 
Also, to touch upon the weapons again, I don't think it was really Andúril that really stopped the dead, but rather Aragorn himself wielding the blade. Because he was the blood of Isildur, he could not only just stop a swing with his sword, but he could also personally choke their king. So I think it has less to do with weapons and more to do with supernatural powers/heirs of a curse. 

 

The men of Dunharrow do not really have much lore to them otherwise that can give any further indications other than that they were once people of the old kingdom of Erech who had sworn fealty to Gondor but during the hour of their need, they instead fled and so they were cursed by the Stone of Erech which they were to be summoned by (the stone itself had been erected by Isildur himself as a sign of the royalty of the Númenoreans and it was where the men of Erech were to be summoned). 

[Hierok 11,829]

The valar probably got some weapons which could deal with it. The Silmarrion are the greatest powers of the world, so they also could do the trick. 

[JonasDarkmane 19,777]

1 hour ago, Hierok said:

The valar probably got some weapons which could deal with it. The Silmarrion are the greatest powers of the world, so they also could do the trick. 

Only problem is, the Silmarils are lost except for the final one that is now a part of the sky. The return of the silmarils won't be until during the end times when it comes to remaking the world. 

 

Plus, it is debatable whether the Silmarils are great powers or not. They are indeed quite the jewels though  (their prophecy of use is to be to revive the two trees of Valinor which will bring light and prosperity, so I would argue that the Silmarils are less of a weapon rather nice shining lamps... unless you want to throw them at an evil being, then it will give them a nasty burn ).

[TigerGeekGuy 4,659]

9 hours ago, JonasDarkmane said:

Keyblade and Dragonslayer would probably not work because they don't exist within the universe of LotR. 

Well gee, I know that. I was thinking should there be a crossover universe with LOTR, could they be used? But by what you've stated, it appears that their curse has more to do with the one heir and their unfulfilled oath than with the weapon being used.

 

9 hours ago, JonasDarkmane said:

I don't think there would be any weapons per se that could stop them, however, there are others who wield supernatural powers who could probably stop them or at least fight them. Sauron (also known as Mairon when he was a Maia in service of Aulë the smith, one of the Valar) was known to be a necromancer and could summon the dead. Melkor (Morgoth, Sauron's master), should he have been around in that world during those times would probably have been able to stop them as well. 
Also, to touch upon the weapons again, I don't think it was really Andúril that really stopped the dead, but rather Aragorn himself wielding the blade. Because he was the blood of Isildur, he could not only just stop a swing with his sword, but he could also personally choke their king. So I think it has less to do with weapons and more to do with supernatural powers/heirs of a curse. 

Ah, so that means the weapon being wielded is less important than who wields it. It really is just the one heir then. Thanks for that.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

The army of the dead were not compelled to serve Aragorn through fear of the sword, but rather to live up to the vow that they had made, and broken, to Aragorn's ancestor and thus restore their honour.  The sword was nothing more than a symbol of Argaorn's lineage.

As to whether or not they can be harmed by other weapons, it stands to reason that wraith blades could harm them as the ghosts live in the same spirit realm as the wraiths, and following that logic I would assume that Elven blades would also affect them as Elves exist simultaneously in both the material and spirit realms.

[TigerGeekGuy 4,659]

24 minutes ago, Concerned Bystander said:

As to whether or not they can be harmed by other weapons, it stands to reason that wraith blades could harm them as the ghosts live in the same spirit realm as the wraiths, and following that logic I would assume that Elven blades would also affect them as Elves exist simultaneously in both the material and spirit realms.

I remember reading that about wraiths somewhere, that makes sense. Oh neat, I didn't know that about Elves. But didn't Legolas' arrow just go through one of the Undead? Or is it specifically Elven blades that can harm them? So if Legolas drew his knives, he would be able to fend them off?

 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

28 minutes ago, TigerGeekGuy said:

I remember reading that about wraiths somewhere, that makes sense. Oh neat, I didn't know that about Elves. But didn't Legolas' arrow just go through one of the Undead? Or is it specifically Elven blades that can harm them? So if Legolas drew his knives, he would be able to fend them off?

That did indeed happen in the film, I don't recall exactly if it happened in the book or not, but I would imagine arrows, being mass-produced, probably don't have the same level of workmanship put into them by the Elven smiths as the likes of Sting would have had.

But what I definitely do recall clearly from the book is that at the end of the 'flight to the ford' chapter, having got Frodo Safely across the river, Glorfindel stood his ground against the wraiths and they were afraid to confront him, being at that point too weak to confront an Elven Lord unveiled in all his wrath.

[TigerGeekGuy 4,659]

19 minutes ago, Concerned Bystander said:

But what I definitely do recall clearly from the book is that at the end of the 'flight to the ford' chapter, having got Frodo Safely across the river, Glorfindel stood his ground against the wraiths and they were afraid to confront him, being at that point too weak to confront an Elven Lord unveiled in all his wrath.

Oh, I'm not familiar with the actual books, having only seen the films, but that is really neat. Thanks for the info!

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

If you enjoyed the films the books are definitely well worth a read.  The films are good, but there was so much missed out from the books (even if the whole Tom Bombadil episode raises more questions than it answers).  In the books, the army of the dead are not involved in the Battle of Pelennor Fields at all (as they are in the film), their contribution was defeating the Corsairs of Umbar at Dol Amroth, which freed up Prince Imrahil to take his army to Minas Tirith.

Of course the one thing that any film made from a book will inevitably lack is the internal monologues of the characters, which is where a lot of the lore in the book is explained.