spoiler Chrysalis To Be Reformed In Season 8?

[bwrosas 252]

Spoiler

 

It may seem that DHX/Hasbro is heading in that direction.  I mean why else would they decide to bring Tirek back in the season 8 finale, if that probably won't be the case?  Well, because it just might be.  

I mean, when you honestly think about it, we really haven't had a full season long arc since season 4, and season 8 could be that season where we get another season long arc.  And this could be why Chrysalis is seen in the S8 Premiere and Tirek is slated for the S8 Finale, because throughout the season, we will have episodes (every few weeks of the 26 episode run, I would assume) that will build to something big at the end.

And whatever that maybe, will play a huge part in Chrysalis Reformation, wither it's Tirek draining her of her power (or what's left of it), or him (at full power) threating the changlings, it will be shown as being a big deal.

Now I know many fans don't want this to happen, but if you look at Diamond Tira's reformation in S5, it may have taken 3 1/2 seasons to happen, but it did and the end result was the CMC's getting their cutie marks in the end.  And you know what, it was treated as a big deal, why?, because it took nearly 4 seasons for it to happen, and at the same time, they help reform a character, that many felt was unreformable. 

So if you look at how S8 may play out story-arc wise, we may get a similar situation, but on a much larger scale, with the strong possibility of Chrysalis being reformed at the end of the season.

But that's just a theory IMO, of what I could see happen in S8, now that we have both Chrysalis and Tirek in the picture.

Do you agree? 

 

Chrysalis To Reformed In Season 8?

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by bwrosas

[Hierok 11,832]

5 minutes ago, bwrosas said:

It may seem that DHX/Hasbro is heading in that direction.  I mean why else would they decide to bring Tirek back in the season 8 finale, if that probably won't be the case?  Well, because it just might be.  

I mean, when you honestly think about it, we really haven't had a full season long arc since season 4, and season 8 could be that season where we get another season long arc.  And this could be why Chrysalis is seen in the S8 Premiere and Tirek is slated for the S8 Finale, because throughout the season, we will have episodes (every few weeks of the 26 episode run, I would assume) that will build to something big at the end.

And whatever that maybe, will play a huge part in Chrysalis Reformation, wither it's Tirek draining her of her power (or what's left of it), or him (at full power) threating the changlings, it will be shown as being a big deal.

Now I know many fans don't want this to happen, but if you look at Diamond Tira's reformation in S5, it may have taken 3 1/2 seasons to happen, but it did and the end result was the CMC's getting their cutie marks in the end.  And you know what, it was treated as a big deal, why?, because it took nearly 4 seasons for it to happen, and at the same time, they help reform a character, that many felt was unreformable. 

So if you look at how S8 may play out story-arc wise, we may get a similar situation, but on a much larger scale, with the strong possibility of Chrysalis being reformed at the end of the season.

But that's just a theory IMO, of what I could see happen in S8, now that we have both Chrysalis and Tirek in the picture.

Do you agree? 

 

 

 

You might want to put a spoiler tag on this. 

I don't want her reformed. Mlp is losing all his villains while it would be better to have like 3 villains who return from time to time. I hope she will be thrown in jail (Tartarus) and there she finds Tirek and together they escape in the finale. This would be my best scenario. 

[Mesme Rize 15,684]

Friendship is the be all end all in equestria and it's pretty much a given that chrysalis gets reformed and they made this very clear again in the season 7 Finale. Infact, if Twilight and the others do ban Chrysalis into Tartarus, it would make them look like Hypocrites.

[Megas 27,724]

Shouting "FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC" is a bullshit excuse to justify every single reformation in the show. Not everyone can be redeemed. Some people are just pure evil

[CastletonSnob 3,075]

4 minutes ago, Kiryu-Chan said:

Shouting "FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC" is a bullshit excuse to justify every single reformation in the show. Not everyone can be redeemed. Some people are just pure evil

And not everyone has a reason for being evil, like being abused as a child. Some people are just assholes for the sake of being assholes. 

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 41,632]

I am fine with this. I've made it clear before that reformations don't bother me like they do nearly everyone else. With a show about friendship, that has to win out eventually. Chrysalis is a character that has been around for years, and evil for years. Her own children have been reformed and apparently she will still be plenty evil for now. I'd say that is plenty of time to terrorize Equestria. I wouldn't mind seeing something change with her.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

I could see it happening, and I'd be fine with it if they did it well, honestly. This show is all about Friendship, reformations have kind of become it's thing, and I really don't mind it continuing that trend, especially since I've liked most of the reformed characters quite a bit. Not every villain needs to be redeemed, but I don't see why we can't have one more. I could see a reformed Chrysalis being more like the Discord type of reformed. She's "Good", but not always "Nice".

Though, I'll laugh if they throw us a curve-ball and Chrysalis stays totally evil and Tirek get's a reformation, who'd see that coming?

Edited October 29, 2017 by BasementSparkle

[cmarston1 5,959]

1 hour ago, Mesme Rize said:

Friendship is the be all end all in equestria and it's pretty much a given that chrysalis gets reformed and they made this very clear again in the season 7 Finale. Infact, if Twilight and the others do ban Chrysalis into Tartarus, it would make them look like Hypocrites.

It really wouldn't it.

Chrysalis is a cruel tyrant who has literally show zero sympathetic or redeemable qualities.  Season 6 even got rid of the excuse that she was just trying to protect her people which could have been used to portray her in a better light. 

She has launched multiple military invasions of Equestria and abducted the country's leaders multiple times.  Chrysalis even rejected reformation in the season 6 finale as well. 

Everything that we have seen from her in the series portrays her as a dangerous power hungry villain with no regards to anyone besides herself, with literally zero things that could say otherwise. 

Given how dangerous she is, her crimes against Equestria, and how she has flat out rejected reformation, it only makes sense for the mane 6 to banish her to Tartarus or turn her into stone or something. 

Doing otherwise and letting a dangerous threat at large would just make them look like idiots.  Plus the whole theme of friendship doesn't necessarily mean that they have to redeem Chyrsalis or Tirek (god I hope the latter doesn't become good either).  It could easily just come from the strong bond between the mane 6 allowing them to overcome immense obstacles.  Sort of like what happened in The Return of Harmony.

Edited October 29, 2017 by cmarston1

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

58 minutes ago, cmarston1 said:

Everything that we have seen from her in the series portrays her as a dangerous power hungry villain with no regards to anyone besides herself, with literally zero things that could say otherwise. 

That's because all that she has been so far is a fairly two-dimensional cartoon villain - not unlike Diamond Tiara was. That shouldn't preclude developing why she is the way she is, which opens up the possibility of reformation. A short and sharp turnaround without that kind of development wouldn't work, but that's an argument against doing reformation badly rather than not doing it at all. It helps if you write villains with proper motives from the get-go, but it can be done later down the line.

Spoiler

Tempest was a rather good example of a reformation that was signposted from the start* - she wanted her horn back, and would do anything to get it. Her betrayal by the Storm King (showing that even avoiding friendship will not keep you safe from betrayal), along with acknowledging (if in a rather short scene) that she can still achieve things even without her horn put her in a position where she was able to take another route. She wasn't singing and dancing with the rest, but she was on the path to redemption none the less.

 

*having the advantage that the film was written as a cohesive whole rather than several episodes over time

I don't mind if some villains aren't redeemed, but I think that to declare any specific one as beyond redemption isn't in line with the ethos of the magical friendship ponies. There can always be new villains, and I think that there ought to be as otherwise you end up with the repeatedly defeated Daleks or suchlike.

[Brainstorm 4,112]

I don't think Crystalias is one of those villains that can be reformed.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Sure, why not? Unlike most, I don't mind the reformings! :3

[Guest]

I don't know how necessary it is, but it's not like it isn't possible. Chrysalis seems to be in the same position Starlight was in when Twilight defeated her, and since that seems to be the intended natural progression of changelings, then I wouldn't say it's off the table. But something about Chrysalis reforming sounds wrong to me. She'd have a pretty awkward place in the changeling hive next to Thorax.

[cmarston1 5,959]

28 minutes ago, Once In A Blue Moon said:

That's because all that she has been so far is a fairly two-dimensional cartoon villain - not unlike Diamond Tiara was. That shouldn't preclude developing why she is the way she is, which opens up the possibility of reformation. A short and sharp turnaround without that kind of development wouldn't work, but that's an argument against doing reformation badly rather than not doing it at all. It helps if you write villains with proper motives from the get-go, but it can be done later down the line.

  Reveal hidden contents

Tempest was a rather good example of a reformation that was signposted from the start* - she wanted her horn back, and would do anything to get it. Her betrayal by the Storm King (showing that even avoiding friendship will not keep you safe from betrayal), along with acknowledging (if in a rather short scene) that she can still achieve things even without her horn put her in a position where she was able to take another route. She wasn't singing and dancing with the rest, but she was on the path to redemption none the less.

 

*having the advantage that the film was written as a cohesive whole rather than several episodes over time

I don't mind if some villains aren't redeemed, but I think that to declare any specific one as beyond redemption isn't in line with the ethos of the magical friendship ponies. There can always be new villains, and I think that there ought to be as otherwise you end up with the repeatedly defeated Daleks or suchlike.

This discussion has come back to what I have been thinking for a while, and I have to come to the conclusion that FIM is a show that just isn't designed with reformation arcs in mind.

I mean thematically yes, sense the whole theme of the show is about friendship, but I am talking about how the show is structured.

MLP FIM is a mostly episodic show with little sprinkles of ongoing storylines and continuity every now and then.  This has shown to be really detrimental when it comes to developing the characters that the show wants to be reformed.  Two major examples of this would come from Discord and Starlight Glimmer.

For Discord, unlike most was actually given an entire to be reformed (which while many claim was rushed, still gave him much much more time than like pretty much every other reformed character in the show) but interestingly enough wasn't fully reformed and even relapsed in the season 4 finale, before finally becoming fully reformed.  That moment he had with Twilight looked like he might actually become legit friends with her, but nope. Seasons later with episodes like What About Discord, and Celestial Advice he still continues his toxic "friendship" with her, and it feels like Twilight only is "friends" with him out of obligation rather than actually liking him. Which in retrospect kinda makes that moment in Twilight's Kingdom feel kinda pointless.

And for Starlight that whole montage at the end of the season 5 finale basically ruined her chances at actually getting a decent reformation arc.  The show's format of being mostly episodic really restricted her reformation, and as a result we were unable to get actual episodes in season 6 of her bonding with the mane 6 and having to work in order to gain the forgiveness from the ponies in the village that she really hurt in the past.  Instead we get a cheap montage that prevents Starlight from actually having to work for her reformation.

When FIM's villain reformations are compared to that of shows such as Avatar or Steven Universe that are built upon delivering major storylines, it is almost laughable how much of a world of difference there are between them.

[Hierok 11,832]

58 minutes ago, Twilight Witch said:

My opinion is that I don't want her to become a lovebug. I don't want her to be color pastel. I do want her to be reformed to some extent though, like not wanting to take over the world, evil removed from her, etc. But she still wouldn't be all that lovy dovy and cuddly. Maybe wanting to be left alone, or just going plain neutral. I'd like to see her be reformed by Zecora, but I know that won't happen.

Another way to 'reform' Chrysalis is to have her have her magic drained by Tirek, or for her to be enslaved by Tirek, and the protagonists rescue her from death, or something. Starlight would still have hope for her, yeah Chrysalis would be confused and such, maybe she'll just side with the heroes because of the common enemy and go neutral from then onward.

You are playing at the fact Zecora and Chrysalis battled in Starlights alternative timeline? Could be. Maybe interesting to see her try to be friendly, but in fact it all is a game to get to Starlight. Tirek could have played along all this time. Like Discord with Tirek, but then intentionaly. If she gets reformed, I hope she will become a lovebug and rules alongside Thorax/Steve and Pharanx. 

1 hour ago, Twilight Witch said:

As for Tirek getting reformed, I don't mind the concept of it. A tirek reformation for me seems unrealistic, but not impossible if they are clever about it. I am thinking that the characters show him what happens if he keeps going down the destructive path. Maybe he just stops his magic draining, and plans to take over the world, but still being somewhat evil and bad.

I agree with you here that it is unrealistic. A magical eating badass being reformed would seem like a joke too me. He can be handled so much better. He could escape out of Equestria for example. Making him a returning threat is better way to handle him then reforming him I think.

1 hour ago, Twilight Witch said:

Banishing her, imprisoning her just seems boring and dull to me. I want to see her backstory, maybe the writers can say that she had abusive parents and was belittled, but to a way worser extent than Starlight.

The problem with reforming everybody is that the series becomes predictable and the villains become not interesting enough. Also, if there are too many characters which all need redempting and development, the show will go backwards.

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

I've seen fanfics that redeem Chrysalis pretty well.

 

Then again, unlike To Where And Back Again, they tend to retain her "I did it for my people" motivation.

[Hierok 11,832]

11 minutes ago, Twilight Witch said:

Chrysalis at least had a hive to care for, so I think she has more of a chance to get reformed than Tirek. Theres also a thing called newer villains.

True, but only introducing new villains every season, they could just as easily pick one or two villains who return in the seasons. Maybe as main antagonist, or maybe as supporting antagonist. Chrysalis could do this in order to get to Starlight. 

[Once In A Blue Moon 895]

40 minutes ago, cmarston1 said:

I have to come to the conclusion that FIM is a show that just isn't designed with reformation arcs in mind.

I get that - continuity is rather tricky, and is clearly getting harder as the show progresses. I am, however, please with what they've done - without getting into too much detail, I like  Starlight's arc (Discord, rather like Pinkie, is a lot harder to write well and so has a bit more variance, but I don't think that what they've done overall is bad.) A matter of likes and dislikes, I suppose. 

32 minutes ago, Hierok said:

The problem with reforming everybody is that the series becomes predictable and the villains become not interesting enough.

Does it? I've seen so many films / books / games in which the solution is one variant of violence or another, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done in an interesting way. Obviously if the solution is always magical friendship hugs then that would get repetitive, but there are few enough shows (or films, books etc.) that actually make properly motivated villains who can be 'defeated' by determining their motivation and undermining it. And, if done properly, it makes for far more interesting villains. 

Of course, if the writers get it wrong (due to the undeniable challenges posed by cmarston1's point above) then yes it would be dull and predictable. Having enjoyed what I've seen so far* I still have faith that the writers will do a good enough job, but as this looks like the trajectory they're following I guess that we shall see.

 

*to the end of season 6, so there may be episodes in 7 that show some rather more ragged holes in the continuity that serve to emphasise your point

Edited October 29, 2017 by Once In A Blue Moon
spelling correction

[Hierok 11,832]

1 minute ago, Once In A Blue Moon said:

Does it? I've seen so many films / books / games in which the solution is one variant of violence or another, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done in an interesting way. Obviously if the solution is always magical friendship hugs then that would get repetitive, but there are few enough shows (or films, books etc.) that actually make properly motivated villains who can be 'defeated' by determining their motivation and undermining it. And, if done properly, it makes for far more interesting villains. 

Of course, if the writers get it wrong (due to the undeniable challenges posed by cmarston1's point above) then yes it would be dull and predictable. Having enjoyed what I've seen so far* I still have faith that the writers will do a good enough job, but as this looks like the trajectory they're following I guess that we shall see.

*to the end of season 6, so there may be episodes in 7 that show some rather more ragged holes in the continuity that serve to emphasise your point

Might be, but I like to have the villains truly as villains. A few are fine, but if they all get reformed many chances and stories for them are ruined. For example, the Discord reformation was amazing, because not only was he back reformed to evil by another villain, he also really learned his lesson. If all villains reformed this kind of things were impossible. 

1 minute ago, Twilight Witch said:

I'd prefer to see Chrysalis be reformed, and then there to be Grogar who would use his necromancy powers to revive Sombra, and Tirek would join them. Maybe some hench men aswell. 

You mean you want Sombra back? Wasn't he already reformed in the comics? If they brought him back they will scrue the comics. 

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

Not long ago, I read a fic where Tirek finally decided to start fixing his s***.

 

 

Unfortunately for him, it was a crossover fic with The Punisher -- so cue headshot anyway, to the hilarious horror of Twilight and co.

Edited October 29, 2017 by The Artist Formerly Known As A.V.

[Hierok 11,832]

2 minutes ago, Twilight Witch said:

I don't believe comics are cannon, since they aren't really alluded to in the main series. 

Many people think they aren't, but I like to believe they are. I never like the fact the same characters and places get two stories. I rather have one storie where all is build upon then hundreds of stories which all disable the others. 

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

5 minutes ago, Twilight Witch said:

I don't believe comics are cannon, since they aren't really alluded to in the main series. 

 

Yes, but unless the show outright contradicts one (such as when Shadow Play recently showed a completely different origin for The Dazzlings -- in contrast to what FIENDship Is Magic #3 showed), you can still see it as offscreen canon if you want.

Edited October 29, 2017 by The Artist Formerly Known As A.V.

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

38 minutes ago, Hierok said:

You mean you want Sombra back? Wasn't he already reformed in the comics? If they brought him back they will scrue the comics. 

 

Sombra's arc in FIENDship #1 and Siege (despite the latter's... controversial... moments) was one of my favorite comics-related things ever.

 

So if it would mean just nixing that altogether, then I'd rather him not come back (I hate the Happy Ending Override trope with a burning passion, after all).

 

P.S.: Unless it's an alternate timeline (e.g., The Cutie Re-Mark), flashback into his original reign, etc.

Edited October 29, 2017 by The Artist Formerly Known As A.V.

[ggg-2 3,553]

1 hour ago, The Artist Formerly Known As A.V. said:

 

Yes, but unless the show outright contradicts one (such as when Shadow Play recently showed a completely different origin for The Dazzlings -- in contrast to what FIENDship Is Magic #3 showed), you can still see it as offscreen canon if you want.

Actually, not only did Shadow Play contradict FIENDship Is Magic #3, it contradicts Rainbow Rocks, which strongly implied that Starswirl banished the Dazzlings by himself, while Shadow Play showed it to be a group effort between all of the Pilllars.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

2 hours ago, ggg-2 said:

Actually, not only did Shadow Play contradict FIENDship Is Magic #3, it contradicts Rainbow Rocks, which strongly implied that Starswirl banished the Dazzlings by himself, while Shadow Play showed it to be a group effort between all of the Pilllars.

Honestly, I think the development team just has a hard time keeping track of what happened in the past.

 

On topic, if Chrysalis does reform, then I think that should be a sign that we should just accept that some villains on the show are going to be reformed.

Edited October 29, 2017 by heavens-champion

[Castle Bleck 19,376]

2 hours ago, ggg-2 said:

it contradicts Rainbow Rocks, which strongly implied that Starswirl banished the Dazzlings by himself, while Shadow Play showed it to be a group effort between all of the Pilllars.

 

IMO, that wasn't a retcon so much as an Adaptation Expansion (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationExpansion).

 

Either way, Rainbow Rocks wasn't wrong about Star Swirl's involvement.