Villain's backstory I don't buy

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

This topic contains some spoilers from My Little Pony : Friendship is Magic (S1 ~ S8), My Little Pony : Equestria Girls series, My Little Pony : The Movie.

 

Let's talk about every villain in the franchise since G4. I'll illustrate their backstory explaining why they became a villain.

The red ones are the ones I don't buy.

 

Season 1

• Nightmare Moon : She was jealous of her sister rand she was lonely.
• Gilda : She is just a mean bully. Maybe a defense mechanism.
• Trixie : She was jealous of Twilight.
• Cloudsdale Boy Bullies : They are just dumb and mean.
• Diamond Dogs : They are hunters. Kidnapping ponies are what they do.

 

Season 2

• Discord : He is a spirit of chaos. It's part of his nature. He also does it for simple fun. He has no friends, so he has no sympathy for others.
• The Windigos : The force of nature. An embodiment of disharmony between ponies.
• Flim and Flam : They are businessmen with questionable morals. They are a scam who are only in it for the money.
• Garble : He is behaving so as a certain (wrong) way to bond as male youngster. For him, it's how to become friends. There are right ways to bond as males, in the show it was totally wrong.
• Queen Chrysalis : She is a predator. She also does it as a leader to feed her subjects.

 

Season 3

• King Sombra : He is a merciless tyrant. Hungry for power.
• Babs Seed : She was being bullied and now she is becoming a bully herself.
• Lightning Dust : She is a flyer with questionable morals.

 

Equestria Girls

Spoiler

• Sunset Shimmer : Being a mean bitch so she can do whatever she can. She is hungry for power. Seriously? I heard lots of motives like this but this time, it's so bland and lazy.

 

 

Season 4

Spoiler

• Dr. Caballeron, Ahuizotl : They are just greedy.
• Suri Polomare : A fashion designer with questionable morals.
• Tirek : He is EVIL!!

 

Rainbow Rocks

Spoiler

• The Sirens : They are predators. They feed off other's negative energy.

 

Season 5

Spoiler

• Starlight Glimmer : Her best friend got a cutie mark and separated. She never had a friend since and began to hate cutie marks. Well, this is one of the most disappointing revelation. If it was dealt properly with more weight and characteristics, I would have bought it.
• Moon Dancer : She felt rejected by her best friend and shut herself from the world. This time I buy it because It was a proper cause for a proper consequence.
• Tantabus : Luna's remaining guilt of her past. She didn't completely forgave herself because she believed and feared that she didn't change that much.
• Wind Rider : Afraid to lose his record.
• Diamond Tiara : It's all her mom's fault. Parent's influence is very important, but I don't like how they just cleaned up such a vile existence.
• Spoiled Milk : Stuck up in a worst possible way.  I don't buy it for the same reason. Now we have another worse one to blame.
• Svengallop : He is a corrupted manager with a rotten working ethic. He is selfish and sucks on others blood.

 

 

Friendship Games

Spoiler

• Principal Cinch : A corrupted authority. Also not a functioning one. I don't know what she was thinking. I just can't explain her act logically.
• Twilight Sparkle : She gets high by dark magic. She wasn't an evil person but gets corrupted because she was walked over every time and finally gets a chance to annihilate everyone.

 

 

Season 6

Spoiler

• Zesty Gourmand : Stuck up.
• Gladmane : Manipulative corrupted businessman.

 

Legend of Everfree

Spoiler

• Gloriosa Daisy : She was about to lose her inherited land, losing control of her powers. I get why she turned into a Monster A, but I don't get the part where she tries to kill the students. She should be on her way to find and kill Filthy Rich.
• Filthy Rich : A filthy and rich guy.

 

Season 7

Spoiler

• Stygian : Not being appreciated and misunderstood by taking his friends artifacts. Feeling vengeful towards his former friends. Consumed by "dark" energy. Now we have a most bland villain. Why he turned into a villain was a very specific situation and they explained it with the most possible bland explanation. After he turns into Monster A, it's like he's being a bad guy for the sake of being a bad guy. A classical bad written narcissistic self righteous emo guy.

 

Movie Magic, Mirror Magic

Spoiler

• Juniper Montage : Wanted to be a celebrity. Got a magic mirror, narcissism and laziness got her. This is getting old in EQG series. Movie Magic was more understandable, but in Mirror Magic when she turns into a Monster A, I just lost interest.

 

My Little Pony : The Movie

Spoiler

• Tempest Shadow : Accidentally broke her horn and never had friends since. Same reason with Starlight Glimmer. It's a most unimaginative way to make a villains backstory, especially in the MLP world. I would understand if it was just about fixing her horn.
• Storm King : Just a power hungry tyrant.

 

Forgotten Friendship

Spoiler

• Wallflower Blush : Had no friends, erased everybody's memory, now have even less friends. Jealous of Sunset Shimmer. This is just dumb. The reason why nobody recognizes her is because she erased all the memories about her. She acts like being annoyed about how much others can't even remember her name and her face. It's like Bruce Wayne shoots his own parents and blames the criminals and becomes Batman.

 

Season 8

Spoiler

• Chancellor Neighsay : Racist bigot. Not a good writing, but at least I get it.
• Chrysalis : Revenge.
• The Mean Six : Being mean is in their nature. Mean Twilight is trying to get power to be free.
• Sludge : A manipulative greedy sociopath.
• Cozy Glow : Wants power. I don't know what she is about. It's bland and cliched. She isn't even threatening. Her plans are too flawed to be serious, she is too evil to be that clumsy.

 

 

Rollercoaster of Friendship

Spoiler

Vignette Valencia : Narcissistic exploitative businesswoman. This is just getting too old. I get where she is being a bad person, but I don't get when she turns into a Monster A.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Literally Snails 2,307]

I'm noticing a pattern here.

[MangoFoalix 24,954]

4 minutes ago, Literally Snails said:

I'm noticing a pattern here.

That they hate almost all recent villains in the show? Yeah... I'm noticing one too.

[Misty Shadow 7,863]

No offense, but I find your takes on Sunset Shimmer, Diamond Tiara, and Stygian to be pretty off. Sunset Shimmer also had a falling out with Celestia, Diamond Tiara is a child who is easily influenced by what her parents tell her, like most bratty rich kids, and Stygian wasn't the one out for revenge on his only friends who refused to understand him, that was the Pony of Shadows who was manipulating him. Another thing I find odd about your reasoning here is that you seem to be more irritated by villains who have an explanation as to why they were who they were that disappointed you than villains who had no explanation behind why they were evil at all other than, "They're just a tyrant.". I know, subjectivity. However, even weak characterization is better than no characterization at all, because at least weak character motives set up something that can be improved later on.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

Your reasoning is...confusing. With some of the villains, you don't "Buy" them being evil, because they seem to just want power or whatever, like Sunset, but some of the other villains, like Tirek, who's sole motivation is that he wants power, you're fine with? I mean, I think Tirek's a better villain than Sunset, but that has less to do with any kind of better motivation or anything, I just think he's more threatening. 

 Also, why is Moondancer even on this list? She's not even an antagonist, weirdest character to list here.

Also, some of your understanding of these villains is pretty bad. Gloriosa didn't want to kill the students, her corrupted mind wanted the camp to "Stand forever free", so she decided to surround the camp in huge walls, keeping the students trapped inside forever. Not an attempt to kill them, just a really twisted way to keep them in the camp. Tempest did want her horn back, that's why she was working with the Storm King, he promised her he'd use the staff to return her horn, that was her main motivation. Her backstory was there to both show how she lost her horn, and how that affected her life.

 Also, Diamond being a brat because of her mother isn't that weird at all, lot's of kids are affected and act badly because of their parents. We aren't given a backstory on Spoiled Rich, sure, but it's not like a stuck-up, reputation obsessed mare who thinks she's better than everyone else is that unrealistic, people are like that in real life all the time. You have a problem with her, but not with Svengallop? Why? There's no explanation for either of them, they're both just jerks acting terribly and thinking they can get away with it, and get something out of it.

This whole post is weird, you don't explain your issues very well, and seem to take no issue with one character doing one thing, when you do take issue with another doing exactly the same thing, for seemingly no real reason.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

- Trixie should be in Season 3, she wasn't a villain in S1.

- Sunset being enraged, ambitious and vengeful towards Celestia seems alright to me, for a rejected student who felt entitled.

- Starlight Glimmer's motivation was a butterfly effect! >Lost her friend "because of his cutie mark">didn't make new friends frightened to lose them as well>thinking cutie marks were the problem, she studied them>found out the 'special' characteristic of cm's and concluded that was the problem>obsessed about equality (removing special qualities) as an utopian method to never lose friends (not only for her sake, but for all of Equestria)>found a way to remove cm's>found a way to store removed cm's>founded her town>enforced her views on dissidents. After The Cutie Map events she just wanted revenge towards the ponies who shattered her equality utopian dream and planned accordingly, she was at the edge of despair because she had "nothing" left to move on, until Twi offered her a new way.

 

Spoiler

- Cozy Glow: too ambitious, manipulative and good strategist to be a filly. Otherwise, she's as good/bad villain as Tirek.

- Vignette Valencia: never turned into a monster, her whole life is about being recognized in social media and doesn't care about how she achieves that recognition. She's the only EQG villain (post LoE) who didn't get corrupted by equestrian magic.

 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

Just now, CloudMistDragon said:

No offense, but I find your takes on Sunset Shimmer, Diamond Tiara, and Stygian to be pretty off. Sunset Shimmer also had a falling out with Celestia, Diamond Tiara is a child who is easily influenced by what her parents tell her, like most bratty rich kids, and Stygian wasn't the one out for revenge on his only friends who refused to understand him, that was the Pony of Shadows who was manipulating him. Another thing I find odd about your reasoning here is that you seem to be more irritated by villains who have an explanation as to why they were who they were that disappointed you than villains who had no explanation behind why they were evil at all other than, "They're just a tyrant.". I know, subjectivity. However, even weak characterization is better than no characterization at all, because at least weak character motives set up something that can be improved later on.

I was hesitant to put Sunset's backstory because A : The movie should be self explanatory, and B : I heard comics don't influence the show, it's only the other way around.

Diamond Tiara's story felt like tossing a hot potato around. I still don't get to the bottom of this. Next time it couldn't possibly be Diamond's grandmother. Diamond Tiara's role and purpose in the show was simple, and had a very thin character. The show tried to give her character, I'm not even sure if we should, and it felt like being forced. I'm not surprised the show doesn't have another Diamond Tiara episode, and it probably shouldn't. And was it ALL her mom's fault? It's possible that parents have such a huge influence on their kids but it sure is unpleasant. It is so wrong that Diamond behaved that way, it is even worse that it was all her mom's influence. I think it was too much to put in just one episode. But I didn't disliked that episode.

About Stygian, If it was a Pony of Shadows manipulating him, that's even worse. We don't know the Pony of Shadows at all. The pony of shadows didn't had a character at all. I thought Stygian turned 'Darkness' or something. It's such a vague concept, we just have to guess how it works, what it is, why it happened. And we just automatically put in a closest cliche. 'It might work like Venom.' 'It might work like Bleach's hollow.' 'It might work like the dark side of force.' Inner-darkness/Other personality thing is so cliched and bad. It is a miracle to make it interesting. In that case, it has to be explained as much as we need because it is the villain who interacts with the character, there are some stories going on about it. If he was just a huge monster who needs to get hit by a laser beam, it's fine to not have much explanation. But if he was a friend and an evil being controlling him? We need to know about them both. If it's just Stygian turn evil, still needs more proper explanation.

Most of those villains are not meant to brought back again. When they brought 'em back, it was an afterthought. I don't prefer either way If the show explains the villains or not. I just like it when it works. There are villains who ins't explained like Anton Chigruh in No Country for Old Men, there are dumb comic book villains who gets defeated every day and slips on banana peel like Marv and Harry in Home Alone, there are deeply explained characters like Garou in One Punch Man or Zuko in Avatar, there are villains that they are just that way like Shan Yu in Mulan or the predator in Predator. If it works, I'm fine. The ones who have no explanation at least works in the episodes. I don't like Sombra or Tirek, but they just work.

[TBD 17,254]

I agreed with most "I don't buy villain's backstory," except for Stygian and Tempest (to some extend).

• How I see Stygian, he's like credence from fantastic beast. His oppression  from being overshadowed (no pun intended)  by the pillars made this dark force get the best out of him. Similar like Princess Luna.  Although I agreed with the part that it was resolved too quickly.
• Tempest was filly when that happens, so keep that in mind. She lost her horn, which prevented her to use magic. Which as a unicorn, it's like losing a huge chuck of yourself.  Not only that, her friends abandoned her out of pity and fear. So as filly that is pretty dramatic for her right there. She has the rights to build up that anger and that sadness.  However....
  Spoiler

  Because of  this comic "Tempest's Return"  I have to agree with you.  The comic made Tempest like she overreacted the whole things and that she was just a dumb filly who jumped into conclusion and fallen into self-pity. Which defeat the whole purpose of my reason above.

   

[SharpWit 2,647]

Sunset Shimmer was the former pupil of Princess Celestia. She saw something more in herself and Celestia eventually became a hindrance towards that. Obviously she can't take on a 1,000 year old alicorn monarch who raises the sun, and if she couldn't do that then she was never going to get anywhere so she went to the human world where there was at least some chance of her becoming something greater or at least it acted as a place she could hide out till an opportunity for power arose. That opportunity found itself in Twilight becoming a princess and using the element of magic as her crown. It also only added to Sunset's frustration since Twilight succeeded in everything she had failed at.

Starlight felt abandoned and traced the cause to Starburst getting his cutie mark. She never got over this and since she was young not only did this become ingrained but it festered and grew. Eventually she had enough and so she dedicated herself to building a community under her own ideals. Twilight and her friends convinced the community that her ideals were wrong and essentially destroyed what she had tirelessly worked for.

 Diamond Tiara simply followed a parent's example like most children do. Her mother probably wanted to feel better about herself so she tore others down in order to do it and she passed this on.

It's a real battle to get funding for your school and the best way to do it is to be really good at something or everything. If a school produces successful students, then parents will want to send their kids there and often times the state will reward them for it or decide not to divert current resources being received. Principal Cinch is desperate to maintain her school's status. No reason is provide, but this is usually why such things happen.

Land ownership is a sensitive thing, particularly if it concerns land that's been passed down a few generations. It's more than just a place you love or your home. It is representative of you. Historically people killed all the time when they risked losing their land. Gloriosa simply chose more traditional methods when she was put into a corner.

Your reasoning for Stygian confuses me. It's basically the same reasoning for Luna turning into Nightmare Moon. Difference here was it concerned only glory and friendship rather than status of birthright and sisterhood but it's very similar.

Juniper Montage was/is a self centered teenage girl. Enough said.

Tempest Shadow isn't really a villain when you think about it. The ponies she considered to be her friends ran away when she wasn't really able to control her magic and it was them who pressured her into retrieving their ball from the den of the Ursa so the loss of her horn, a physical part of her that let her cast spells and might have even been key to her special talent, was all for nothing. She didn't serve the Storm King because she believed in his cause or because she wanted revenge. She just wanted to be made whole again by the repair of her horn.

Wallflower Blush was too blind to see that her problems would continue and worsen perpetually if she didn't stop. It's too often we find ourselves in vicious cycles.

I'm not caught up on Season 8 and had never heard of EQD: Rollercoaster of Friendship until now.

[ShootingStar159 2,156]

Sunset Shimmer’s motivations weren’t about power, it was about proving that she deserved to be a Princess of Equestria. To do that, she thought she needed more power to achieve her goal.

 

As for Starlight, her motivations and backstory have to be some of the most misunderstood and misrepresented motivations of any fiction I have ever seen. Some of this is the fault of the writers, for not showing more clearly. Some of this is becuase there is no one thing you can easily point to to blame for all of Starlight’s actions. But at this point, most of this is the fandom’s fault, for continuously propagating false and idiotic arguments for years now. And for continuing to do so no matter how many times it’s been explained to them. If they were honest in their critiques, the “turned evil because of one friend” BS would have disappeared before season six.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 hour ago, BasementSparkle said:

Your reasoning is...confusing. With some of the villains, you don't "Buy" them being evil, because they seem to just want power or whatever, like Sunset, but some of the other villains, like Tirek, who's sole motivation is that he wants power, you're fine with? I mean, I think Tirek's a better villain than Sunset, but that has less to do with any kind of better motivation or anything, I just think he's more threatening. 

 Also, why is Moondancer even on this list? She's not even an antagonist, weirdest character to list here.

Also, some of your understanding of these villains is pretty bad. Gloriosa didn't want to kill the students, her corrupted mind wanted the camp to "Stand forever free", so she decided to surround the camp in huge walls, keeping the students trapped inside forever. Not an attempt to kill them, just a really twisted way to keep them in the camp. Tempest did want her horn back, that's why she was working with the Storm King, he promised her he'd use the staff to return her horn, that was her main motivation. Her backstory was there to both show how she lost her horn, and how that affected her life.

 Also, Diamond being a brat because of her mother isn't that weird at all, lot's of kids are affected and act badly because of their parents. We aren't given a backstory on Spoiled Rich, sure, but it's not like a stuck-up, reputation obsessed mare who thinks she's better than everyone else is that unrealistic, people are like that in real life all the time. You have a problem with her, but not with Svengallop? Why? There's no explanation for either of them, they're both just jerks acting terribly and thinking they can get away with it, and get something out of it.

This whole post is weird, you don't explain your issues very well, and seem to take no issue with one character doing one thing, when you do take issue with another doing exactly the same thing, for seemingly no real reason.

The reason I felt Tirek works better than Sunset was because the story they are in is different. Twilight's Kingdom is a straightforward action battle story with simple stories going on. Just like Dragonball Z. Big monster is coming, hide this, find that, fight, done. Equestria Girls is more like a total mess story-wise and Sunset is doomed to be bad in that storyline.

The reason Moon Dancer is on is to compare it with Tempest Shadow and Starlight Glimmer.

Gloriosa or 'it' didn't cared a bit about the students safety, she was inches close to penetrate the students skulls by protecting the camp. I get that she's being possessed and losing control of herself and trying to protect the camp with the deranged mind. Just disappointed that the villain is unable to think after getting the most kick ass abilities.

Diamond's backstory is to wash up her past. It's an afterthought and not enough to be balanced with all the past behaviors by just one episode. It reminds me the moment at Naruto, where they tried to make an excuse for Itachi, who seemed to be the most ruthless villain who almost kill his own entire family. It took a whole book (and thicker than usual) to make all that story up. And making a whole history behind it that we never even herd of before. Clearly it was an afterthought. On the other hand, Svengallop was a jerk, is a jerk, and probably will be a jerk. He is a shallow character who work good for what he's meant to.

Yeah. I think I didn't explained it very well. I should have explained with more context in it.

 

[Toastypk 923]

With Stygian, It helps if you read the comics, at least the Legends of Magic ones. That talks about the Pillars for the first six issues, and the next six issues show Stygian's quest to find them. He has no powers like they do, but he acts as their leader in effect, since he called them and needs them to do something, and he is the strategist.

But once they get Starswirl, he naturally takes the leadership role, and Stygian starts to feel displaced and without a role himself. The words he keeps using are "I am no hero." But as Sunburst points out, he may be, in his own way, even if not direct.

When the Pillars kicked him out, (btw, dude, you didn't tell them why you took their things?) that's when he was overcome with feelings of spite and contempt, and he found the Pony of Shadows and became his vessel. It's one of those decisions one would make at their worst point. And in the episode you can see Stygian and the Pony of Shadows are almost two different entities. No one really like the Pony of Shadows cause he didn't leave a huge impact like others. But Stygian himself, I liked a lot. The whole thing mirrors the Nightmare Moon thing quite well too.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Toastypk

[ShootingStar159 2,156]

2 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The reason Moon Dancer is on is to compare it with Tempest Shadow and Starlight Glimmer.

That is absolutely hilarious, becuase that’s exactly what both Tempest and Starlight did as well, they both shut themselves away from others, and it was the consequences of that choice that made them the villains they were. The only difference between Starlight, Tempest, and Moondancer was time, and will.

Only a couple years at most went by for Moondancer compared to Starlight and Tempest’s entire formative years, and that amount of time suffering alone is what gave both of them the will to actually do something about it.

Edited September 25, 2018 by ShootingStar159

[Toastypk 923]

1 minute ago, ShootingStar159 said:

That is absolutely hilarious, becuase that’s exactly what both Tempest and Starlight did as well, they both shut themselves away from others, and it was the consequences of that choice that made them the villains they were. The only difference between Starlight, Tempest, and Moondancer was time, and will.

Only a couple years at most went by for Moondancer compared to Starlight and Tempest’s entire formative years, and that amount of time suffering alone is what gave both of them the will to actually do something about it.

Sorry but you just reminded me of a funny image

[KH7672 1,604]

22 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

As for Starlight, her motivations and backstory have to be some of the most misunderstood and misrepresented motivations of any fiction I have ever seen. Some of this is the fault of the writers, for not showing more clearly. Some of this is becuase there is no one thing you can easily point to to blame for all of Starlight’s actions. But at this point, most of this is the fandom’s fault, for continuously propagating false and idiotic arguments for years now. And for continuing to do so no matter how many times it’s been explained to them. If they were honest in their critiques, the “turned evil because of one friend” BS would have disappeared before season six.

Yeah, I never saw it as Sunburst's fault or "the cutie mark's" fault. If Sunburst got his mark and stayed in Sire's Hollow nothing would change for her. If he left with a goodbye and a clear explanation of what's going on she'd be sad but fine. It's the fact that to her, getting a cutie mark will lead to leaving your friends, and you can't follow them because you don't have yours. How do you fix that? Not even the show knows how cutie marks work and you can't force them. So to her she's not following him. What good is contacting him if "his destiny" is separating him from her? But I also agree with @DonMaguz with the clear snowball/ripple/butterfly effect them in place.

I have to say while her motivation from filly to cult leader is still muddled, Josh Haber knew exactly how to make her leap to time manipulation. She says it herself "Not everypony's lucky enough to get their cutie mark at the same time as their friends." Twilight clearly had it good to her, cutie mark could never have taken her friends away from her because according to Twilight they were brought together by them instead of tore apart.  Cutie marks for cutie marks. You take away my friendship with no cutie marks, I take away yours with NO cutie marks origin. Just didn't think through the implications but why would she, she's always been short sighted.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

29 minutes ago, SharpWit said:

Sunset Shimmer was the former pupil of Princess Celestia. She saw something more in herself and Celestia eventually became a hindrance towards that. Obviously she can't take on a 1,000 year old alicorn monarch who raises the sun, and if she couldn't do that then she was never going to get anywhere so she went to the human world where there was at least some chance of her becoming something greater or at least it acted as a place she could hide out till an opportunity for power arose. That opportunity found itself in Twilight becoming a princess and using the element of magic as her crown. It also only added to Sunset's frustration since Twilight succeeded in everything she had failed at.

Starlight felt abandoned and traced the cause to Starburst getting his cutie mark. She never got over this and since she was young not only did this become ingrained but it festered and grew. Eventually she had enough and so she dedicated herself to building a community under her own ideals. Twilight and her friends convinced the community that her ideals were wrong and essentially destroyed what she had tirelessly worked for.

  Diamond Tiara simply followed a parent's example like most children do. Her mother probably wanted to feel better about herself so she tore others down in order to do it and she passed this on.

It's a real battle to get funding for your school and the best way to do it is to be really good at something or everything. If a school produces successful students, then parents will want to send their kids there and often times the state will reward them for it or decide not to divert current resources being received. Principal Cinch is desperate to maintain her school's status. No reason is provide, but this is usually why such things happen.

Land ownership is a sensitive thing, particularly if it concerns land that's been passed down a few generations. It's more than just a place you love or your home. It is representative of you. Historically people killed all the time when they risked losing their land. Gloriosa simply chose more traditional methods when she was put into a corner.

Your reasoning for Stygian confuses me. It's basically the same reasoning for Luna turning into Nightmare Moon. Difference here was it concerned only glory and friendship rather than status of birthright and sisterhood but it's very similar.

Juniper Montage was/is a self centered teenage girl. Enough said.

Tempest Shadow isn't really a villain when you think about it. The ponies she considered to be her friends ran away when she wasn't really able to control her magic and it was them who pressured her into retrieving their ball from the den of the Ursa so the loss of her horn, a physical part of her that let her cast spells and might have even been key to her special talent, was all for nothing. She didn't serve the Storm King because she believed in his cause or because she wanted revenge. She just wanted to be made whole again by the repair of her horn.

Wallflower Blush was too blind to see that her problems would continue and worsen perpetually if she didn't stop. It's too often we find ourselves in vicious cycles.

I'm not caught up on Season 8 and had never heard of EQD: Rollercoaster of Friendship until now.

Well, your explanations are very clear to understand. My problem with the show is, why couldn't I get it from just watching the show?

The Sunset story is poorly depicted in the movie.

Starlight's story happened when she was really little. It doesn't make sense that that long she rejected any other friendship.

I think by the time Stygian's story was told, it was such a cliche.

Tempest Shadow didn't show any mercy on her own kind. She almost killed Luna, she captured all the ponies on there.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

40 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Sunset Shimmer’s motivations weren’t about power, it was about proving that she deserved to be a Princess of Equestria. To do that, she thought she needed more power to achieve her goal.

 

As for Starlight, her motivations and backstory have to be some of the most misunderstood and misrepresented motivations of any fiction I have ever seen. Some of this is the fault of the writers, for not showing more clearly. Some of this is becuase there is no one thing you can easily point to to blame for all of Starlight’s actions. But at this point, most of this is the fandom’s fault, for continuously propagating false and idiotic arguments for years now. And for continuing to do so no matter how many times it’s been explained to them. If they were honest in their critiques, the “turned evil because of one friend” BS would have disappeared before season six.

Proving she deserved to be a Princess by turning into a demon and mind-controlling hundreds of students and bringing them back to Equestria? I don't think that fits. And if the writers thought it fits, I as an audience didn't get it.

 

I don't know what the fandom thinks about Starlight's past and I don't know what is the right explanation of it.

My critique of Starlight's past is I didn't bought it at the moment when I was watching the show.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

24 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The reason I felt Tirek works better than Sunset was because the story they are in is different. Twilight's Kingdom is a straightforward action battle story with simple stories going on. Just like Dragonball Z. Big monster is coming, hide this, find that, fight, done. Equestria Girls is more like a total mess story-wise and Sunset is doomed to be bad in that storyline.

The reason Moon Dancer is on is to compare it with Tempest Shadow and Starlight Glimmer.

Gloriosa or 'it' didn't cared a bit about the students safety, she was inches close to penetrate the students skulls by protecting the camp. I get that she's being possessed and losing control of herself and trying to protect the camp with the deranged mind. Just disappointed that the villain is unable to think after getting the most kick ass abilities.

Diamond's backstory is to wash up her past. It's an afterthought and not enough to be balanced with all the past behaviors by just one episode. It reminds me the moment at Naruto, where they tried to make an excuse for Itachi, who seemed to be the most ruthless villain who almost kill his own entire family. It took a whole book (and thicker than usual) to make all that story up. And making a whole history behind it that we never even herd of before. Clearly it was an afterthought. On the other hand, Svengallop was a jerk, is a jerk, and probably will be a jerk. He is a shallow character who work good for what he's meant to.

Yeah. I think I didn't explained it very well. I should have explained with more context in it.

 

Yeah, I can get where you're coming from a lot more now. Your original post was really vague and barely explained anything. Putting Moondancer up as a comparison to Tempest and Starlight is a fine idea, but you listed her among all the other villains/antagonists without pointing out why you mentioned her. It's hard to understand what you're saying when you originally provided little to no context for your thoughts.

 That said, Moondancer's situation still isn't one to one with either Starlight's or Tempest's. Tempest for example, was physically scarred and damaged, she permanently lost a part of her body and her ability to completely control her magic. Her former friends shunned and feared her for this, and she eventually set out on her own. Her main motivation in the movie doesn't really have anything to do with Friendship, she wants her horn back, she thinks the Storm King can give it to her. She probably wouldn't have set out on that path if she hadn't been shunned, and had ponies there to support her though. Starlight's best friend left her, in her mind, because of his cutie mark, when she was just a filly. Moondancer was already a full-grown pony when Twilight left, and there was a lot less time between Season 1 and 5, then there was between Starlight's childhood and making her town.

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Starlight's story happened when she was really little. It doesn't make sense that that long she rejected any other friendship.

Who says she rejected any other friendship? She built a whole town of friends! She even took away their cutie marks, just to make sure none of those friends would leave her again! Clearly Glimmer put a lot of effort into making friends, you can argue she did it the wrong way and you're not wrong, but doing something wrong doesn't mean you didn't try.

Also, you're right that Diamond's backstory doesn't "Excuse or balance" her past behaviors, but who said it did? Everything Diamond did was wrong, and it's still her responsibility to fix and make up for it, but her mother's attitude and treatment of her certainly helps explain where her behavior and her ideas came from, she was doing what mommy dearest showed her, after all. Diamond was shallow before that episode, but the point was to give her a bit more motivation for why she acted that way, and I think they did that good enough.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

38 minutes ago, Toastypk said:

With Stygian, It helps if you read the comics, at least the Legends of Magic ones. That talks about the Pillars for the first six issues, and the next six issues show Stygian's quest to find them. He has no powers like they do, but he acts as their leader in effect, since he called them and needs them to do something, and he is the strategist.

But once they get Starswirl, he naturally takes the leadership role, and Stygian starts to feel displaced and without a role himself. The words he keeps using are "I am no hero." But as Sunburst points out, he may be, in his own way, even if not direct.

When the Pillars kicked him out, (btw, dude, you didn't tell them why you took their things?) that's when he was overcome with feelings of spite and contempt, and he found the Pony of Shadows and became his vessel. It's one of those decisions one would make at their worst point. And in the episode you can see Stygian and the Pony of Shadows are almost two different entities. No one really like the Pony of Shadows cause he didn't leave a huge impact like others. But Stygian himself, I liked a lot. The whole thing mirrors the Nightmare Moon thing quite well too.

I read the comics. It was quite a good one.

But as a perspective of critiquing the show, I would judge it only by the show.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

Wait, why does Luna get a pass while Starlight doesn't? Aren't both equally of an overreaction? 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

38 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

That is absolutely hilarious, becuase that’s exactly what both Tempest and Starlight did as well, they both shut themselves away from others, and it was the consequences of that choice that made them the villains they were. The only difference between Starlight, Tempest, and Moondancer was time, and will.

Only a couple years at most went by for Moondancer compared to Starlight and Tempest’s entire formative years, and that amount of time suffering alone is what gave both of them the will to actually do something about it.

The three suffered from a same thing and those two reacted ridiculously, only Moondancer felt proper.

Moondancer didn't became a villain, she just shut herself and became a bookworm.

How much time went since Starlight and Tempest's incident is quite long. Long enough to have at least one friend. It happened when they were young, but friends of that age are less likely be impactful than the friends from when you are grown up. (For example, how many friends you remember from your kindergarten?) It was like 10-15 years ago (by human standards) and they never made a single friend since, they became evil and did a horrible things to other ponies. Moondancer's incident happened way more recent, shorter period enough to believe she didn't make any friends, and it was still remaining impacts.

And, Starlight and Tempest just reformed by lecturing at the moment, Moondancer burst in tears while talking to Twilight.

However, later on, Starlight meeting with Sunburst was depicted way better.

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

17 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

The three suffered from a same thing and those two reacted ridiculously, only Moondancer felt proper.

Moondancer didn't became a villain, she just shut herself and became a bookworm.

How much time went since Starlight and Tempest's incident is quite long. Long enough to have at least one friend. It happened when they were young, but friends of that age are less likely be impactful than the friends from when you are grown up. (For example, how many friends you remember from your kindergarten?) It was like 10-15 years ago (by human standards) and they never made a single friend since, they became evil and did a horrible things to other ponies. Moondancer's incident happened way more recent, shorter period enough to believe she didn't make any friends, and it was still remaining impacts.

Kids can be much more impacted by things, even small things than you seem to realize. If I were to list all the small, stupid little comments or incidents that I remember from being a child that still affect me and the way I think to this day, we'd be here for a long while. I remember all my friends from kindergarten, I only had two. You seem to be looking at this with a rational mind, but the thing is, people don't always think with rational minds, especially not kids. Ideally, when a kid loses a friend or two, they should be able to deal with it and move on, it's a small incident, something that happens to a lot of people, most of them turn out fine. Just because most do, doesn't mean everyone will though.

 Starlight, especially isn't good at being rational, if you noticed. When she feels she's losing control or things aren't going her way, she tends to go way over the top to try and solve things, she's been shown doing this consistently, from mind controlling her friends because she's afraid of failing her friendship lessons, to casting a spell to make her and Sunburst look like foals again, to nearly ripping time and space itself apart to get her revenge. Starlight overreacts and goes overboard a lot, it's a consistent problem with her, not just a one time thing.

 There's still the matter of Tempest not only being abandoned, but physically scarred and disabled for life too, she lost her horn, to a Unicorn, that's like losing a limb, like your arm or your leg, going through that, and then being abandoned for it, rather than supported? As a child? I'd argue that one would actually mess most people up quite a bit, actually.

Edited September 25, 2018 by BasementSparkle

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

26 minutes ago, BasementSparkle said:

That said, Moondancer's situation still isn't one to one with either Starlight's or Tempest's. Tempest for example, was physically scarred and damaged, she permanently lost a part of her body and her ability to completely control her magic. Her former friends shunned and feared her for this, and she eventually set out on her own. Her main motivation in the movie doesn't really have anything to do with Friendship, she wants her horn back, she thinks the Storm King can give it to her. She probably wouldn't have set out on that path if she hadn't been shunned, and had ponies there to support her though. Starlight's best friend left her, in her mind, because of his cutie mark, when she was just a filly. Moondancer was already a full-grown pony when Twilight left, and there was a lot less time between Season 1 and 5, then there was between Starlight's childhood and making her town.

I think the problem with Tempest's backstory and Starlight's backstory is that it was too short and not heavily handled enough.

Some great movies like UP, for example, can build up so much weight behind a character in just ten minutes. (of course it is a different situation) Maybe they should have done something more than short flashbacks of their childhood and explanations over it. It felt like just explanations. Maybe few simple jump cuts towards their adulthood could have helped I think.

35 minutes ago, BasementSparkle said:

Who says she rejected any other friendship? She built a whole town of friends! She even took away their cutie marks, just to make sure none of those friends would leave her again! Clearly Glimmer put a lot of effort into making friends, you can argue she did it the wrong way and you're not wrong, but doing something wrong doesn't mean you didn't try.

I think if Starlight's moral perceptivity isn't broken, she might have knew already that she is being evil. When the villagers start to argue, she looked like being aware of it's wrong. Not about doing something about making friends, but about being evil, I can say she was completely crazy. And I think it was illogically too much.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

37 minutes ago, Sun Wukong said:

Wait, why does Luna get a pass while Starlight doesn't? Aren't both equally of an overreaction? 

I already get to see an explanation of Nightmare Moon at the beginning, so I didn't have any anticipation about her past and motivations afterwards.

But when I saw Mane 6 escape from the town almost losing their cutie marks, Twilight and Spike going back in time watching Equestria's doom several times, I was vary curious and hyped about Starlight's past. Why would she do all this? And I was disappointed when it was revealed.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

8 minutes ago, BasementSparkle said:

Kids can be much more impacted by things, even small things than you seem to realize. If I were to list all the small, stupid little comments or incidents that I remember from being a child that still affect me and the way I think to this day, we'd be here for a long while. I remember all my friends from kindergarten, I only had two. You seem to be looking at this with a rational mind, but the thing is, people don't always think with rational minds, especially not kids. Ideally, when a kid loses a friend or two, they should be able to deal with it and move on, it's a small incident, something that happens to a lot of people, most of them turn out fine. Just because most do, doesn't mean everyone will though.

 Starlight, especially isn't good at being rational, if you noticed. When she feels she's losing control or things aren't going her way, she tends to go way over the top to try and solve things, she's been shown doing this consistently, from mind controlling her friends because she's afraid of failing her friendship lessons, to casting a spell to make her and Sunburst look like foals again, to nearly ripping time and space itself apart to get her revenge. Starlight overreacts and goes overboard a lot, it's a consistent problem with her, not just a one time thing.

  There's still the matter of Tempest not only being abandoned, but physically scarred and disabled for life too, she lost her horn, to a Unicorn, that's like losing a limb, like your arm or your leg, going through that, and then being abandoned for it, rather than supported? As a child? I'd argue that one would actually mess most people up quite a bit, actually.

I get what you're saying. And I kind of tried to come up with a similar conclusion after when I watched it.

But it still felt disappointing back then while watching the show and the movie. It is logical when put in text and words, but for me, it didn't went through simultaneously while just watching it.