Is The Elements of Harmony a violation against free will?

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

I was thinking about a new way to reform a villain.

Quote

Instead of putting them in Tartarus, why don't we dip them in The Stream of Silence, reduce all their aggression (unlike the Kirins, this case is more justifiable.) and put them somewhere safe and watch them, never tell how to get their voice again.

This is kind of a terrible idea like Clockwork Orange, but what's the difference with this and The Elements of Harmony? One you just blast it on their face and turn them good, one you just baptize them and neutralize them.

Thinking of this, to expand the subject,

1. Do you think the show's moral that there is the ultimate ideal truth and using force to rectify villains who doesn't fit is right?
2. Do you think The Elements of Harmony is kinda like Clockwork Orange? Is using the elements are a violation against free will to choose morality?
3. Can we trust The Elements since it was created by flawed mortal ponies?

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

54 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

I was thinking about a new way to reform a villain.

Thinking of this, to expand the subject,

1. Do you think the show's moral that there is the ultimate ideal truth and using force to rectify villains who doesn't fit is right?
2. Do you think The Elements of Harmony is kinda like Clockwork Orange? Is using the elements are a violation against free will to choose morality?
3. Can we trust The Elements since it was created by flawed mortal ponies?

I tend to think the Elements as a blast attack, if they're not being used to banish, don't really "turn someone good" as much as it does, absolves them of past burdens, giving them an opportunity to start again.

I've kind of been asking myself this question ever since I was old enough to be philosophical when I was thinking back on the idea of the Care Bear Stare.

There are a lot of interesting questions about free will in MLP that extend beyond the Elements. Perhaps an even more glaring one (since this affects EVERY pony), is the idea of the cutie mark.

[碇 シンジン 27,431]

I don't think it is possible for anyone or anything ever to go against your free will in any way.

I see free will as something that only you yourself can affect so unless you let something else to affect it, it cannot be affected.

As for the elements I don't think their behaviour affects free will much at all. I mean even if you banish someone to say tartarus their will is still their own.

I have no idea what is clockwork Orange so I can't say much about that 

Ultimate truth and using force is quite simple concept and while I don't really agree to it id say that it might fit better for the younger audience than long talks and diplomatic debates between parties.

Though there might be a middle ground somewhere which I think would be ideal.

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

 - Nightmare Moon reformed because she was just upset at her sister and felt mistreated, which she realized was false.

 - Discord reformed because he saw that he was being greedy and selfish, wanting his own way instead of thinking of others.

 - Tirek remains unreformed because he still thirsts for others' power.

In other words, in case you are not getting the implication I'm trying to show you, the element of harmony are used to shut-up the villains and get them to listen and re-consider their behavior, nothing more. The elements are protecting Equestria from destruction and restoring friendships, catastrophe would result if the villains continued down their paths and friendships remained broken. Tartarus, or any other prison, is simply a place for a villain to be imprisoned to prevent them from causing more destruction, and possibly to consider the error of their ways.

5 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Thinking of this, to expand the subject,

1. Do you think the show's moral that there is the ultimate ideal truth and using force to rectify villains who doesn't fit is right?
2. Do you think The Elements of Harmony is kinda like Clockwork Orange? Is using the elements are a violation against free will to choose morality?
3. Can we trust The Elements since it was created by flawed mortal ponies?

1. Of course Equestrians, and every other creature, have morality that must be followed, same with real-life because without morality destruction will swiftly follow. Equestria doesn't have "ultimate ideal truth" though, it's simply morality that is necessary for peace and prevents destruction.

2. Free will isn't being taken away, look at the behavior of Flim and Flam, Starlight, Gladmane, Trixie, Neighsay, and so forth - questionable acts are tolerated, though demoted and corrected especially when consisting of harm.

3. The elements were created by the Tree of Harmony which was a seed that came from who knows where, so it most likely wasn't even created by any creature.

Edited October 17, 2018 by EpicEnergy

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

4 hours ago, 47216063816 said:

Ultimate truth and using force is quite simple concept and while I don't really agree to it id say that it might fit better for the younger audience than long talks and diplomatic debates between parties.

I'd be interested to know what the response was to a few of those episodes that dealt more heavily with diplomacy, or at least stories that really challenged the brain. Starlight's town was right out of hardcore dystopian sci-fi and the alternate timeline episode got pretty deeply philosophical with Twilight trying to ensure the bullying of Fluttershy continued and Starlight turning it back around on her. The first time the Yaks or Thorax/Ember come to visit are interesting too, giving a pretty zany but no less relevant look at how cultures might struggle with intermingling at first. Were things like that well-received or did kids get bored with it?

I was watching Star Trek TOS at a pretty young age and was actually far more intrigued by all the diplomacy. Yeah, Star Wars was what got my adrenaline going, but Trek gave me a very different, but equally powerful kind of high.

[Latecomer 439]

Mi own headcanon is that the Elements can onlu reform those who accept it in their hearts. Hence whi Nightmare Moon was banished the first time but purged the second.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

3 hours ago, Latecomer said:

Mi own headcanon is that the Elements can onlu reform those who accept it in their hearts. Hence whi Nightmare Moon was banished the first time but purged the second.

That's somewhat creepier if I take the whole thing in a wrong way.

[Latecomer 439]

2 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

That's somewhat creepier if I take the whole thing in a wrong way.

Oh?

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

6 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

Oh?

It's more like a deprogramming instead of an execution. And even after you have chosen death, you are resurrected few thousand years after suffering from the grave, and it repeats over and over again forever until you are completely deprogrammed.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Latecomer 439]

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

It's more like a deprogramming instead of an execution. And even after you have chosen death, you are resurrected few thousand years after suffering from the grave, and it repeats forever and over again until you are completely deprogrammed.

Well, only if someone uses it on you again. And I doubt Nightmare Moon chose death - she was just too full of her grudge to let it go, especially when Celestia was right before her eyes.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 minute ago, Latecomer said:

Well, only if someone uses it on you again. And I doubt Nightmare Moon chose death - she was just too full of her grudge to let it go, especially when Celestia was right before her eyes.

Yeah, just said death because it's a state of permanent neutralization as long as it can be, and unable to interact with the world during that. So it's technically not death, but death. Maybe it's worse than death.

[Latecomer 439]

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Yeah, just said death because it's a state of permanent neutralization as long as it can be, and unable to interact with the world during that. So it's technically not death, but death. Maybe it's worse than death.

Perhaps, but I think uou'll change uour mind if uou consider what would have happened if Luna had died then.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

1 minute ago, Latecomer said:

Perhaps, but I think uou'll change uour mind if uou consider what would have happened if Luna had died then.

Thank got the elements are always right.

[Latecomer 439]

Just now, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Thank got the elements are always right.

A pitu some ponies chose to second-guess them in the finale... 

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

No it isn't, it's just like any form of punishment.