sunset- element as an official thing

[venelopi 8]

Listen up! from some other topic here,  someone posted a screen shot from the mlp and eqg official site:

It had the summary of every charecter, and what they stand by, wich is like the elements human name for it (for every main charecter from the pony, like, pinkie pie,

The thing she stands by (human) and her element (pony) are the same)

so it showed what sunset stands by.

I couldn't believe what I saw, so I went and checked it out.

And it's real.

The official element of harmony for sunset shimmer is redemption.

1) Whatttt????

I can't believe they desided on that!!

2) We have to find a way to make the whole fandom know about this: this has been a mystery for a long time, and it was rigth under our noses!!

I don't really have alot of social media (like, literaly, none.)

I  would love to hear what you have to say!

Venelopi.

also, she likes math class, wich refers to the "rise up" vedio, where she was the only one to get it rigth, and smile in the prosess :-)

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

I thought her element was "The Element of Reformed Villain", but redemption sounds better and makes more sense.

But the problem is, in order for someone to redeem themselves, they have to do something wrong in the first place. Redemption is not a value, it's an accomplishment. Introspection or Self-reflection seems more like it but I can't find a better word.

[Twilight Luna 30,944]

I thought Sunset’s element was forgiveness. 

[venelopi 8]

2 hours ago, Twilight Luna said:

I thought Sunset’s element was forgiveness. 

me too! but then this showed up: and it canon. so, there's not much to discuss now.

but I still wish it was forgiveness

[venelopi 8]

3 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

I thought her element was "The Element of Reformed Villain", but redemption sounds better and makes more sense.

But the problem is, in order for someone to redeem themselves, they have to do something wrong in the first place. Redemption is not a value, it's an accomplishment. Introspection or Self-reflection seems more like it but I can't find a better word.

sunset did do something wrong in the first movie:

she stole a crown, manipulated people, ended friendship, and turned into a she demon, put the whole school in mind control and used them to try to take over equestria as we know it!

but over the years she has ponied up, defetesd the sirens, became that amazing thing and saved twi from her ineer demon in friendship games, stopped gloriosa daise from making everyone into plant food in legend of everfree, juniper and the mirror magic, and so on.

she has redemed her self the the max.

besides, if its on the official mlp website, its canon, and we cant change that.

believe me, I wish it was forgiveness, but everyone has to face facts and come to terms with it.

but I like your'e ideas :-)

 

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

It'd be weird if this was actually necessary. Sunset is pretty much the Spike of the EqG world as far as her role is concerned. Not an element, but still the glue that's trying to keep them together.

[venelopi 8]

3 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

It'd be weird if this was actually necessary. Sunset is pretty much the Spike of the EqG world as far as her role is concerned. Not an element, but still the glue that's trying to keep them together.

 I don't really agree: sunset is now the leader of the eqg group, and she deserves to have an element.

but, again, have you not looked at the picture? this is canon: c-a-n-o-n

this is real

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

51 minutes ago, venelopi said:

 I don't really agree: sunset is now the leader of the eqg group, and she deserves to have an element.

The elements are all components of what makes a good friendship work from day to day. How does redemption fit into that? A dose of redemption per day is a big red flag.

Edited January 24, 2019 by BornAgainBrony

[venelopi 8]

38 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The elements are all components of what makes a good friendship work from day to day. How does redemption fit into that? A dose of redemption per day is a big red flag. 

well, can anyone be honest all the time? even the dependable of ponies has to lie in some cases (pinkie's party, the last roundup....)

can you always be happy? (pinkie pie can be pinkamina but even if its not OK for me all the time, she has the right to be sad.

can you always be forgiving, and let other people redeem themselves and give them a second chance?

its all very free and dynamic: and even if you don't agree with me, that's totally fine, I respect your'e opinions.

(in my former group of friends, different ideas were meet with a lot of unhappy friends and sometimes hate for opinions that didn't seem good to them, but I can totally respect your'e ideas and opinions.)

but Hasbro are known to do a lot of stuff that don't match up to everything else that they built.

I guess we as a fandom can ignore the fact that it's suppose to be canon, and keep on saying that its forgiveness of empathy of whatever.

you can't always be forgiving, there are more to ponies and humans then there elements or cutie marks, like the small stuff, that we all love to notice

Edited January 24, 2019 by venelopi
forgot something important.

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Yeah no, this is not a confirmation that Sunset is actually an element of harmony. All it says is that she stands for redemption but not that redemption is an element of harmony. 

[venelopi 8]

1 minute ago, Black Sabbath said:

Yeah no, this is not a confirmation that Sunset is actually an element of harmony. All it says is that she stands for redemption but not that redemption is an element of harmony.  

I see where you are coming from, but here me out:

it you check the official site yourself, you will see that there are three way to summeraze every character there:

movie way, pony way and human way.

I looked at all of the mane 6 pony profiles, and every one has there element in there.

when I went to there human counterparts, it wrote 3 categories:

what she stands by, instrument and favorite class.

when you look at the category "what she stands by", they all Aline with the pony counterparts' elements!

sunset, unfortunately, does not have a pony profile, and when you try to refresh the page, it just said "404" and stuff.

but there are two possibilities here:

1) Hasbro didn't want the human counterparts to stand by something different then there pony elements.

but sunset came from a world of ponies and elements, and we don't see her counter part.... so, she is the element.

2) the fact that they wrote "redemption" is because she is a redeemed villain, and does not have an element of harmony.

but you might say that about starlight, and then we would of seen a pattern, in witch the former villains are explained as
"redemption" and that's that.

but wait!.... there is even a profile for queen novo from the mlp movie, and principal Celestia from the first eqg movie, but there isn't one for starlight! so, i guess... there is no pattern.

maybe.... it even is.... real? (bam!! :-))

 

[Twilight Luna 30,944]

9 hours ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The elements are all components of what makes a good friendship work from day to day. How does redemption fit into that? A dose of redemption per day is a big red flag.

That’s why forgiveness makes more sense.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Honestly, the exact word, redemption can go hand in hand with forgiveness. There's no contradiction here. Forgiveness or redemption can very well stand for the same thing like compassion and Kindness meaning essentially the same virtue.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

On 1/25/2019 at 1:51 AM, venelopi said:

sunset did do something wrong in the first movie:

 she stole a crown, manipulated people, ended friendship, and turned into a she demon, put the whole school in mind control and used them to try to take over equestria as we know it!

 but over the years she has ponied up, defetesd the sirens, became that amazing thing and saved twi from her ineer demon in friendship games, stopped gloriosa daise from making everyone into plant food in legend of everfree, juniper and the mirror magic, and so on.

she has redemed her self the the max.

besides, if its on the official mlp website, its canon, and we cant change that.

believe me, I wish it was forgiveness, but everyone has to face facts and come to terms with it.

but I like your'e ideas :-)

 

What I mean is an element of harmony should be a value that others have to acquire and master. Honesty doesn't only applies to Applejack, she's just an embodiment of that element because she is that good. The element of magic is the combination of it all. When it comes to redemption, I don't know how and what it is.

And all the elememts are a set of value that has been cherished throughout human history. It's been around in humsn literature as long as elements like fire, ice, lightning. Redemption sounds like a strangely specific thing. She is the main character of the show, she shouls be the element of magic because she is loyal, honest, generous, honest, kind, optimistic. Human Twilight isn't there yet.

Redemption sound like an ability to look back oneself and find out it's own flaws. It goes under honesty. (and honesty is the only element that doesn't need others to do it.)

And like lots of people pointed out, forgiveness sounds like mercy and it's Fluttershy's archetype. Maybe her element should have been empathy because of her special abilities and how she is able to empathize with villains. (but empathy is also within Fluttershy's archetype)

I know it's canon, but I'm just criticizing the canon.

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

4 hours ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

What I mean is an element of harmony should be a value that others have to acquire and master. Honesty doesn't only applies to Applejack, she's just an embodiment of that element because she is that good. The element of magic is the combination of it all. When it comes to redemption, I don't know how and what it is.

And all the elememts are a set of value that has been cherished throughout human history. It's been around in humsn literature as long as elements like fire, ice, lightning. Redemption sounds like a strangely specific thing. She is the main character of the show, she shouls be the element of magic because she is loyal, honest, generous, honest, kind, optimistic. Human Twilight isn't there yet.

It also creates some confusion about how the element powers are still functional in Equestria. There have always been 6.

Spoiler

The powers that E.G. have seeped in from Equestria, but that's when things got weird. Eight different gems in the Camp Everfree caverns. The powers are a bit weird to begin with, since for some reason they grant more than even the Ponies can do in some cases (such as Rarity's energy shield). But the "Poison Ivy" thing and Sunset's "mind reading" power... by the way, that makes more sense for empathy too. So actually there were... 8 elements in E.G. and one of them became corrupted, and 6 were sufficient to summon a big rainbow of doom but then there were 7 and...   alright. Go home, Tree of Harmony, you're drunk!

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by BornAgainBrony

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

On 1/24/2019 at 9:16 PM, venelopi said:

but there are two possibilities here:

1) Hasbro didn't want the human counterparts to stand by something different then there pony elements.

but sunset came from a world of ponies and elements, and we don't see her counter part.... so, she is the element.

 2) the fact that they wrote "redemption" is because she is a redeemed villain, and does not have an element of harmony.

 

Or here's the third option, it's possible to "stand for" something without it being an element of harmony and they put redemption as Sunset not because she's a redeemed villain but because it's a value that she thinks is the most important to her. 

[Senko 459]

Knowing Starswirls responsible approach to dealing with old foes and experiments my personal head-canon is that the geodes where the prototype for the elements of harmony a magical power source that after testing he accidentally dropped down a nearby portal. Then several years later before facing Stygian he and the other pillars created the elements of magic based on those studies and their own traits. Contrary to what it seems the geodes are not a direct parallel for the elements of harmony they're a prototype with less power which is why they've been able to be used by the girls against their foes but there's no tree of harmony equivalent and there are extra ones around. Its also why they're a little unstable and overuse of them causes the magic to go out of control as shown when Dash was using her speed too much. Too sum up . . .

Geodes: Magical power source, unstable, multiple gems, minor growth ability.

EoH: Magical power source, stable, adaptive and evolving, linked to the tree of harmony

Remember we've already seen the elements grow and evolve from the pillars Strength, Beauty, Hope, Healing, Bravery and Sorcery through Celestia and Luna's guardianship Honesty, Generosity, Laughter, Kindness, Loyalty and Magic into the mane 6's custody where they shifted again from six normal looking gems and a star to matching their cutie marks. So we know the elements at least are capable of shifting their nature strength to honesty or healing to kindness.

The geodes on the other hand seem to be more of a mixed bag with 3 linked to the original versions Applejack = Super-strength, Twilight = Sorcery *telekinesis", Rarity = Beauty then we get the 2 where the stone brings out the equivalent of their pony forms special talent Dash = Super-speed and Fluttershy = Communication with animals and finally two wild cards in Sunset = Mind reading and Pinky = the equivalent of a party canon with explosions. Which ties back into a nice theory of prototypes. 3 geodes that work on the elements of sorcery concept, 2 geodes that work with a ponies special talent and 2 geodes that are ?.

Of course we do also have Spike and that green gem but that's a whole different theory to deal with and I prefer the magcial prototype dropped down an inter-dimensional portal one.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Senko

[Derpy Ole 4]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 12:15 AM, Senko said:

The geodes on the other hand seem to be more of a mixed bag with 3 linked to the original versions Applejack = Super-strength, Twilight = Sorcery *telekinesis", Rarity = Beauty then we get the 2 where the stone brings out the equivalent of their pony forms special talent Dash = Super-speed and Fluttershy = Communication with animals and finally two wild cards in Sunset = Mind reading and Pinky = the equivalent of a party canon with explosions. Which ties back into a nice theory of prototypes. 3 geodes that work on the elements of sorcery concept, 2 geodes that work with a ponies special talent and 2 geodes that are

 

Well, as you have described, it seems that some Equestria Girls have special powers which are more like mutant powers (Mind reading, Super Strength, Super Speed, Telekinesis) of The X-Men. Rarity would have a sort of Emma Frost like ability. Beauty combined with diamonds. With her beauty she can convince men easily to do some work for her like in the Rainbow Rocks video and the piano. And she can shield herself of with diamonds during the battle of the bands against the sirens. Pinkie Pie however? I don't know if there is a mutant power containing laughter.

[Derpy Ole 4]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:34 PM, Twilight Luna said:

I thought Sunset’s element was forgiveness. 

I thought that as well. And it makes more sense. When you look at the moments where Sunset Shimmer have forgiven people who have threatened her. Sci-Twi, Wallflower Blush, Juniper Montage. I mean, the way she forgave Wallflower's mean actions against her is very honourable. That girl almost destroyed Sunset's life by deleting all her memories of the Mane 6 and even her ponylife. I don't think that a Rainbow Dash would forgave her that easily. The element of forgiveness is also very important, as you can go on after a difficult moment.