ooc Welcome! To: Into Limbo: Worlds Collide (open)

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

@Starforce @Illiad Easle

I don't get why you guys got mad at starlight?

Blu rambled about himself, starlight was a bit confused and asked Dusk what he is saying is true or not. Would you instantly believe a child's rambling?

Twilight didn't even answered her question at all and you guys dismissed her already?

I think Blu would be smart enough to not to jump into that state, actually, shouldn't he be impressed that starlight is the first pony who didn't even believe what you said instantly, like the librarian, right?

she just asked Twilight first if it's true or not.... 

that said... this maybe a ploy you cooked up?

So will you guys still go to this course or will there be edits? I can still move the plot in the direction you lead. Just making sure that this is the course you guys are really taking?

Edited March 30, 2022 by Kujamih

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

@Starforce

Ayt let me just check on @Illiad Easle maybe there's just a misunderstanding? 

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih

Alright, let's step through this:

Post #205: Blu and Dusk return from upstairs to find a new pony who apparently has the librarian terrified. A point against her in Blu's eyes, but Blu can see how the two might not be correlated, so returns to his studies.

Post #209: Starlight opens with condescension, her hatred towards SMILE is clear, and she only stops because Dusk looks like Twilight, still, she does not treat Dusk with respect, instead ogling her like an oddity. Another point against her in Blu's eyes. She also speaks openly about what Blu and Dusk were meant to believe was secret information.

Post #211: Dusk doesn't give Starlight the answer she wants, so simply dismisses her. She then makes clear that she is the reason why the librarian is terrified.

By this point she already has several points against her in Blu's eyes, but he decides to set that aside and attempt to be cordial. He figures that, as the headmaster of a school of friendship, she should at least be cordial when dealing with those who appear to be younger, right? He approaches, introducing himself, succinctly, clearly, and with confidence.

Post #214: Starlight doesn't even give him the time of day, confusing his words for rambling because she, in Blu's eyes, doesn't care what he has to say. He's had plenty of experience being talked down to and discounted for his age even before he came here, so he knows it when he sees it. Another strike against her. She then does not ask Blu to clarify, instead turning to Dusk to answer for him instead. Blu takes that to mean that Starlight considers him incapable of answering for himself, which is a further strike against her.

At this point Starlight has done nothing to garner any favor with Blu, and several things to garner his ire. He has no reason not to be mad at her at this point.

 

It's not a matter of instantly believing a child's story, but rather showing a child respect. Had Starlight not believed him, but asked him to clarify, that would be a different story. That shows respect to the child, in that they are capable of answering for themselves.

If I missed a key detail I'd be open to changing what Blu did, but there's my reasoning behind his actions thus far.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

1 hour ago, Illiad Easle said:

@Kujamih

Alright, let's step through this:

Post #205: Blu and Dusk return from upstairs to find a new pony who apparently has the librarian terrified. A point against her in Blu's eyes, but Blu can see how the two might not be correlated, so returns to his studies.

Post #209: Starlight opens with condescension, her hatred towards SMILE is clear, and she only stops because Dusk looks like Twilight, still, she does not treat Dusk with respect, instead ogling her like an oddity. Another point against her in Blu's eyes. She also speaks openly about what Blu and Dusk were meant to believe was secret information.

Post #211: Dusk doesn't give Starlight the answer she wants, so simply dismisses her. She then makes clear that she is the reason why the librarian is terrified.

By this point she already has several points against her in Blu's eyes, but he decides to set that aside and attempt to be cordial. He figures that, as the headmaster of a school of friendship, she should at least be cordial when dealing with those who appear to be younger, right? He approaches, introducing himself, succinctly, clearly, and with confidence.

Post #214: Starlight doesn't even give him the time of day, confusing his words for rambling because she, in Blu's eyes, doesn't care what he has to say. He's had plenty of experience being talked down to and discounted for his age even before he came here, so he knows it when he sees it. Another strike against her. She then does not ask Blu to clarify, instead turning to Dusk to answer for him instead. Blu takes that to mean that Starlight considers him incapable of answering for himself, which is a further strike against her.

At this point Starlight has done nothing to garner any favor with Blu, and several things to garner his ire. He has no reason not to be mad at her at this point.

 

It's not a matter of instantly believing a child's story, but rather showing a child respect. Had Starlight not believed him, but asked him to clarify, that would be a different story. That shows respect to the child, in that they are capable of answering for themselves.

If I missed a key detail I'd be open to changing what Blu did, but there's my reasoning behind his actions thus far.

#209 ("Ahmm good day to you..." The pony just by looking at you seems to have seen a ghost or something.

 

She would then trot around you looking at you in every angle, observing you with curious eyes.")

If Blu sees it as starlight, ogling at dusk like an oddity, then I can't change that... But I don't think I made it look like she is ogling at her... More of a look of disbelief?

 

#211: she was polite to dusk though and smiled it off

Sure Blu says it with confidence.... But Blu butted in with their conversation and was given this informations that has no proof. I'm sure she wouldn't ask Blu if what he says is true or not, she would probably ask dusk first if he says is true or not.

I mean for example. 

 

I told you I didn't kill that bird.

Would you ask me "again" if I killed that bird?

You'd asked someone else if what I said is true or not.... That's what starlight situation... But if that's how Blu felt... Then we head on.

#214

( Is this colt with you perhaps? Mind telling me about what he just said?" )

Was this not enough confirmation that she is curious of your situation? A proper way to clarify things is to ask another person.

In any training may it be from military or medical, or architectural. We sign the papers not just by 1 person but multiple person's. This way. It proves that the job is done and seen by many.

If this is how Blu feels then, its okay by me. Just checking to make sure I got the jist of things.

So I'll continue on? or any edits?

Edited March 31, 2022 by Kujamih

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih

10 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

Would you ask me "again" if I killed that bird?

Yes, assuming you're a child who came up to me, I'd humor you and ask if you really did, maybe ask you to elaborate, then look around for witnesses.

22 minutes ago, Kujamih said:

In any training may it be from military or medical, or architectural.

But this scenario isn't any of those scenarios, this is an adult, a school official, talking to what is presumably a child. Inherently different from the scenarios above.

 

Still, if you feel Starlight is justified with having done what she's done, I feel justified in Blu having done what he's done.

 

If, however, your real question is how we can adjust the story to go in a way you'd rather have it go, we can discuss modifications in greater detail. I can forgive some out of character responses if it means the story ends up better overall. Did you intend for us to have a positive interaction with Starlight? 

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Starforce

There's a difference between characters' intentions and the intention we have for our characters. Good storytelling, especially when there is more than one author, often involves compromise. @Kujamih is the storymaster, they likely have an idea of where they want the story to go, and is probably trying their best to guide us that way without railroading us in that direction, which is an admirable trait. That said, if they wanted to guide us down a particular path in regards to Starlight, and it was simply presented in such a way that we did not react as planned to it, it would be in all of our best interests to communicate to see how we could make the story happen in a way that satisfies all of us.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Well the characters have seen or have an idea about smile. I kinda wanted to show the school of friendship, which is the new regimen.

Smile is with Celestia, the old. While the school of friendship is with Twilight alicorn., The new.

But I'm okay with continuing on...but starlight is gonna be pissed though....

Starlight just wanted to ask if Blu is telling the truth.... But with Blu's attitude... She will be pissed off. So I'll go on ahead.

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih @Starforce

 

Here's what I was thinking of posting, but I get the feeling this is a very delicate situation, and I'm not sure how it will go over. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this before we go somewhere none of us want to go.

 

Blu was surprised by the extent and violence of the Head Mare's reaction. Clearly she was unused to receiving the disrespect she so readily gave. Still, he was not afraid. The worst she could do to him was to kill him, and Alpha had already removed his fear of death.

Sitting there under the prodigious pressure of this enraged mare without fear gave him an interesting perspective: If he further provoked her, would she break? Or kill him? He found both options acceptable at this juncture. His convictions held true from before, anyone who would hurt what was apparently a child without just cause, was a monster.

Several thoughts went through his mind as potential responses.

1. He could stop trying so hard to breathe, and let the pressure overwhelm him such that he fainted as well, meaning that Starlight would have strangled a child into unconsciousness.
2. He could start crying, see if tears had any affect on her. Though he doubted she'd even care that she'd made a child cry.
3. He could try to use his own magic, maybe lift something behind Starlight. But he figured if his attack failed it would only end up worse for him.
4. He could further taunt her, and see how much further she went before she broke, or killed him.

Ultimately he decided to be diplomatic about it. His expression and relaxed posture, or at least as relaxed as one could be in that state, in any case he was not struggling against it, showed clearly that he was not afraid of the mare. If he could manage to speak, he would continue, but if the pressure prevented him from speaking he would simply stare at her coldly until he would be able to again.

"Clearly, I was absolutely correct in my assessment.  You are a hypocrite. You asked us to leave, then prevent us from leaving. You offer to shake my hoof, but prevent me from doing so. You claim to be the Head Mare of the School of Friendship, but have done nothing but cause fear, pain, and made enemies. Is this friendship? Forcing someone to interact with you against their will? Still. Suppose I'm lying about my condition. In that case, you just assaulted a child for giving you lip. Where I come from, that'd be grounds for immediate termination, a ban against ever interacting with young creatures again, if not a long term jail sentence. So let's assume, for your sake, that I am telling the truth. You've still assaulted three ponies who did nothing more than speak ill of you. Last I checked being the Head Mare of a school didn't grant you the right to attack others for disrespect. Still, you want proof? Let us go, and I'll show you."

 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

They seem to be good I can work with that.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

17 hours ago, Kujamih said:

They seem to be good I can work with that.

@Illiad Easle @Starforce

But of course starlight won't kill you. She's just pissed off... She won't do to you as what she did to discord.... I think? She's older now and would have much better control on her anger... She's just showing off and letting you know who you're dealing with.

The school of friendships path has not changed from what we expect the cannon would have... A bit I suppose. The smile did, since they had to deal with the ODT.

I'm also trying to re enact what an adult starlight would do in this situation... What do you think? Was I to off character? She is in a situation that she's quite irritated and stressed, because of smile.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Kujamih

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih

On runes, while I can accept that emotions are a strong part of how magic works, I would argue that it is not the whole or how magic works, IE, one could cast magic without imbuing emotions into it, while those spells may not be as powerful as ones imbued with the correct emotional energy, they would be more consistent. I would expect the same thing to apply to runes, does that makes sense?

Other than that, your interpretation of runes is very liberal. Given I can write whatever I want out and presumably have it happen, and what happens depends on my understanding of the words and not anyone else's, what's to stop me from simply writing out a program? It sounds to me like I could even just use a normal programming language, given my understanding is all that matters, and it would work as I expect it to, based on my ability to provide power to it.

Is that right?

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

@Illiad Easle @Starforce

Yes! But! Is your magical knowledge and emotions able to project that?

That's why i made that rule.

Sure you can make it that way but the chances it would succeed depends on your emotions and magic knowledge and feelings.

For example.

You want the rune to activate when stepped it would cast an explosion spell.

first you need the right writing material. It needs to be important to you emotional attachment or symbol. And the material needs to be able to absorb good amount of magic(optional but would help greatly.) This way you can easily apply magic to your writing.

Second, you need to know how to cast an explosion spell. Usually a good amount of knowledge of wind and fire magic is required. This way you'll have a good feel on what emotions needed to cast this spells, hence you learning what emotion is needed to use while writing the rune of explosion and applying it.

Thirdly, you also need to know the feel on how to apply the trigger mechanism for the runes. What emotion is usually used when stepping.

Great concentration and control of emotions is required to successfully make a rune, hence given a warning!

Wrong emotions  and feelings applied can be deadly.

One might accidentally make a death rune instead of a heal rune.

Now your programming.... Yes you can..but! Is your emotions and feeling for it would be accurate? Is that feeling unique to that specific spell? Cuz if it shares with another emotion you would have a mix results in that way. Which I believe Blu would have a hard time if he can't have a proper grasp of his emotion.

But again this are just things written in the book. Who says that you can't do more or learn something new with doing something... But a warning is given and the book is there to guide you to a safer route.

So don't lose an eye.

 

Example of someone who has no proper emotional control or experience.

Example you are making a heal rune.

You need the emotion requiring to wish the one who use this rune to be well. Safe and in good fortune.

But if you're like Blu or dusk... Sure he can think like that... But a simple doubt would be catastrophic.

And if the only emotion you have is anger hate mistrust you may only cast or apply runes based on those magic. Mostly curses and deceptive magic etc.

Also

Rune casting: you don't know if your magic works or not until you trigger it. Which is too late to cancel the spell.

Spell casting: you know if your magic worked right here right there. And you can easily adjust to cancel it

 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Another example. You share the emotion for fire and lightning which is hatred.

Your rune or magic might end up casting lightning or fire or both. Which is dangerous and inaccurate.

Hence why in runes, you need the symbol to represent what you are casting and in spells you shout out the word of the spell you want to cast. 

Note: write the right symbol for your runes and say the words properly when casting your spell.

Sometimes someponies don't need to say words or write the runes, but those are god level of skills.

Also you won't have a problem on writing runes if you have a wide scope of emotions and proper grasp to it. Hence you having proper control and knowledge of your emotion is a must.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Kujamih

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Sorry... 

All and all 

Emotions, feelings, experience. Is the requirement to cast magic perfectly.

But is not a requirement.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

I just gave a deeper meaning and examples on how magic works based on this universe knowledge on magic.

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih

I'll have to agree with @Starforce on this one, this is exceedingly complicated and sidesteps my primary concern: Why are emotions such a strong factor? For instance: 

1 hour ago, Kujamih said:

What emotion is usually used when stepping.

I mean seriously, what is that supposed to mean? Stepping, just like most mechanical motions, does not necessarily have ANY emotions associated with it. Which leads me to believe that the rune can then only be triggered by something capable of feeling emotions, and only if they happen to be feeling the right thing when they step on it, or near it, or whatever.

 

You are of course free to set up the rules however you like, but when you make the rules so complicated that no one can understand them, it simply pushes the players away from that avenue. If your intention was exactly that, to push us away from using runes, then you should have simply said from the beginning that you didn't want us to use runes.

If that was not your intention, then let me submit, for your consideration, an alternative guide to how runes and magic could work:

• Magic is influenced, not powered by, emotions.

Similar to the force, emotions can bring extra power to spells, but can also corrupt them if the emotion is not in line with the spell's effect. This does not mean that a healing spell could become a killing spell, but a healing spell would be weakened by negative emotions, and boosted by positive ones. A telekinetic grip could become crushing if influenced by anger, etc.

• Runes have their own set of symbols one must know in order to use them.

Rather than leaving it up to the author's imagination, which I find very overpowered, runes work by how they shape the magic that is channeled through them. It is the shape and size of the rune that gives it power, such that a mistake in the drawing of it could render it inert, or lead to unexpected results, and that the size of the rune directly correlates to it's power. Smaller runes are less effective than larger runes.

• Individual runes have basic effects.

Similar to the basic types of magic, there are base runes that have basic effects, like a fire rune that can create fire. These runes are the simplest to create and would be taught in basic books.

• Runes can be chained or combined to form more powerful runes.

Similar to how mixing types of spells produces other spells and spell categories, linking runes together can cause different effects, or no effect, depending on the combination. This is where the programming aspect comes in to play, as the relative sizes, order, and orientation of the runes influences the composite effect. Combining a fire rune and a wind rune could produce a warm breeze if the two are both small with the fire being smaller than the wind, or a fireball if the wind is strong and delayed in activation. The concepts of combining runes would be taught in more advanced books, though hinted at in the basic books.

 

For the purposes of this RP, Blu has only read basic books, and so would only know basic runes and have the idea that they could be combined somehow. What do you think of this?

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

That's why I made it as vague as possible so you can just make up stuff and easily apply it... Runes aren't even real in our world so how would I even explain it properly?😆

And besides.... We are in mlp universe... They base their magic on emotion such as loyalty love honesty friendship and what not... So I based it on that. I just gave it a scientific feel and deep meaning to it. But your characters can just adapt to it in a way if you want and easily apply it, Its for topic use only so don't think deeply to much about how magic works...just feel it.

You see if you only read the books and no pony teaches you stuff you'd have a hard time.... But if somepony who is a master of said arts teaches you ... You night easily learn magic.

Just like how Celestia told twilight not to rely on books so much.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

5 hours ago, Illiad Easle said:

are of course free to set up the rules however you like, but when you make the rules so complicated that no one can understand them, it simply pushes the players away from that avenue. If your intention was exactly that, to push us away from using runes, then you should have simply said from the beginning that you didn't want us to use runes.

If that was not your intention, then let me submit, for your consideration, an alternative guide to how runes and magic could work:

• Magic is influenced, not powered by, emotions.

Similar to the force, emotions can bring extra power to spells, but can also corrupt them if the emotion is not in line with the spell's effect. This does not mean that a healing spell could become a killing spell, but a healing spell would be weakened by negative emotions, and boosted by positive ones. A telekinetic grip could become crushing if influenced by anger, etc.

• Runes have their own set of symbols one must know in order to use them.

I believe that's what I said......

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

5 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Emotions, feelings, experience. Is the requirement to cast magic perfectly.

But is not a requirement.

@Illiad Easle @Starforce

You can still cast magic but NOT perfectly 

 

I also said it is not a requirement.

And please I'm just giving information that is on a book.

What's written in a book is NOT written in stone. Sometimes books don't couldn't and usually not accurate at what it tries to teach us. Same as the things I explained. You might discover something new about magic.

But because in this world they believe emotions are the key ingredient to magic, then they believe it to be so.

I remember in my social studies the book told us that Marcos was a bad president and Cory was a good president....

Welp sure Marcos was bad.... But the country was at it's peek. Cory.... Cory was a puppet.

So like that I suppose.

All I'm trying to do is just add lore on how magic works in this world and you guys don't need to dwell so much about if your magic would work or not.

You guys can learn all the magic you want. I'm just controlling it a bit so you guys won't be too overpowered and end up becoming a draconicous and just end up the reason why this world is in danger.... Or is that your plan all along?

 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

This is how the ponies understand and way of teaching.

That's why on the previous post I keep on hinting to Dusk when she reads a book that emotions and feelings heavily imply to the books and what not.

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih @Starforce

I'm sorry, my stress levels have been really high these past few days and I've been lashing out at several people who did not deserve it.

I'm going to step away from this RP for a week so I can focus on my finals and get my stress properly managed again. If all goes well, I'll post again in a week.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

@Illiad Easle @Starforce

Ayt it's best to focus on what's important! 

We support you all the way and best of luck. We shall pause this event until further notice or some others end up joining, etc. 

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih @Starforce

Alright, I'm back.

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

Ey! We missed you! How was your finals? @Illiad Easle? 

[Illiad Easle 3,139]

@Kujamih
Some went better than I had hoped, others less so, but I should have an A in all my classes.