Speciesism episode for season 3?

[Magic Man 222]

I know that in season 2, we had an episode based around racism, the 'Hearth's Warming Eve' episode between the different races of pony. However, I would like the show to take it to a new level and actually deal with relations with an entirely different species.

 

As far as we've seen, most species we've seen outside of ponies are EVIIIL, be they dragons, diamond dogs, or changelings, and I have to say, that kind of rubs me the wrong way. I think it would do a world of good if the show dedicated an episode to how some, or better yet, many members of these 'EVIIIL' species are actually good people and are not uniformly bad. I mean, I know some species are kind of set up to come across as evil, but one of the big messages of this show is on love and tolerance, so I think one of the best examples of that is having the Mane Six realize that 'hey, maybe it's wrong to write off every single one of these guys we hardly know as an 'evil jerk'. They are people, with lives and their own family and loved ones and are, in many ways, like us'.

 

The species I'd like to see this done with the most is the Changelings, mostly because they are the species that are most set up as uniformly evil and thus would make it more interesting and compelling than say, the Diamond Dogs. It also allows the Mane Six to be portrayed as more sympathetic in their distrust and NOT as blind, ignorant bigots because unlike the incident with Zecora (which was them being speciesist per say, more fear of the unknown), which was based more on ignorance than hatred, they have more of a founded reason to see all Changelings as the enemy; an army of them, led by their Queen, invaded their country! Unlike Zecora and the different races of pony, there is a solid reason for which they are actively expected to not like Changelings. It does not justify their predjudice entirely, but it makes the audience sympathise and understand them more. No one side is entirely in the wrong.

 

The Mane Six, in the end, would come to understand that Chrysalis' army is not representative of every single Changeling and that it is wrong to paint all Changelings as their 'enemy'. That they are people, with lives and their own family and loved ones (on a side note, this is why I do not support the hive-mind idea that some fans endorse, because it mostly takes away the opportunity to show Changelings as individual characters). They (the Changelings) are like them (the Mane Six and ponies in general) in many ways.

 

I keep imagining as of late their kingdom and society and culture drawing a lot of similarities to Oriental cultures, like Japan and Korea. I guess this is mainly due to Chrysalis' designer, Rebecca Dart was inspired by the work of manga artists Junko Mizuno and Hideshi Hino. I for one champion this, for if we see the Changeling Kingdom in the show it can really enable the show writers and animators to explore some East Asian art, architecture and culture.

 

And picture this: Changeling Samurais! You tell me that would not be awesome.

 

Now close your eyes as you listen to this music:

, picture Changeling children playing in beautiful ornamental gardens with dolls and wooden swords, Changeling mothers laboring in the farms, carrying their babies in satchels on their backs (from many pictures I see of old Japanese mothers), a whole market place full of Changelings going about their business, and finally, in her palace, Chrysalis, sitting crosslegged in her kimono, drinking tea and her child sleeping soundly against her.

 

It has many ways in which the episode could be played out:

 

- The Mane Six are stranded in an isolated area with a group or family of Changelings.

- The Mane Six find themselves trapped in the Changeling Kingdom and disguise themselves/They are sent to the Changeling Kingdom as spies and go undercover. Either way, they then get an understanding of what the Changelings' lives are like, and how privileged ponies are in Equestria in comparison to a Changeling's daily hardship and squalor.

- The familiar scenario of them finding a Changeling baby and have to return it to its family. The twist? It's Chrysalis baby! How're they gonna get themselves out of that one, especially as Chryalis believes they kidnapped her baby?

- Equestria and the Changeling Kingdom go to, or are at the brink of war.

 

This sort of thing relates to real life in ways a lot of us may not realize. We often associate entire certain nationalities or groups of people as our enemies because of what their leaders (past or present), ancestors or a select minority of them have done, when in reality, many of them have done nothing to antagonize us and could otherwise be our friends. I mean, come one, I think it's safe to say many of us have associated groups with something bad; Arabs with terrorism, Germans with Nazism, Russians and Chinese with Communism (the former nowadays as alcoholic, vicious gangsters), Italians with the mafia, etc.

 

Edit: Noted, Spike seems to be the only exception so far, but I'm really talking about an episode dedicated to the matter. Still, my bad for not mentioning Spike before.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Wormtail96

[Shiki 5,855]

Spike is a dragon, and he is not evil. That's really the only example of what you're talking about existing in the show currently.

 

Also, I like this idea. A lot. A good changeling... That itself would just make me love the episode. I highly doubt anything like this will air, though, because out of the 89,728,639 ideas for episodes that are floating around out there, this particular one won't be one that is picked.

 

I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for, because like I said, most likely won't happen, but I do say that this would be a very good moral for kids to learn, and this is pretty much the only episode idea that I've actually taken time to respond to in any way, shape, or form.

[NavelColt 22,880]

The changelings' existence has not yet been proven to be lawfully evil, as the only situation we've seen them under has been because they're searching for food. Now granted, Chrysalis herself is obviously a bitch to some degree, because she clearly loved taking over the kingdom, and the fringe benefits of gaining power, but like you mentioned about people judging others through their leaders, that isn't to say all her subjects are the same way. I too like the idea of a changeling or a few turning out to be good guys, or at the very least, neutral and willing to interact with or hang out or help the ponies. The possibilities for both comedic and helpful interaction using their appearance copying abilities is quite tasteful.

[Count Paradox 3,548]

The changelings' existence has not yet been proven to be lawfully evil, as the only situation we've seen them under has been because they're searching for food. Now granted, Chrysalis herself is obviously a bitch to some degree, because she clearly loved taking over the kingdom, and the fringe benefits of gaining power, but like you mentioned about people judging others through their leaders, that isn't to say all her subjects are the same way. I too like the idea of a changeling or a few turning out to be good guys, or at the very least, neutral and willing to interact with or hang out or help the ponies. The possibilities for both comedic and helpful interaction using their appearance copying abilities is quite tasteful.

 

chaotic discord is right. it would be awesome to see some of the changelings return to ponyville and prove that they are good, and then end up living there and just hang with the ponies. I myself think that it would make a great episode, and the ponies would learn to not judge a book by it's cover, or something to that effect.

[NavelColt 22,880]

chaotic discord is right. it would be awesome to see some of the changelings return to ponyville and prove that they are good, and then end up living there and just hang with the ponies. I myself think that it would make a great episode, and the ponies would learn to not judge a book by it's cover, or something to that effect.

 

Heck, we could in fact find that she actually rules over her subjects through fear for the most part, especially when she's angry. After the defeat in Canterlot, she becomes this way and yells at and threatens the changelings in her anger, which wouldn't surprise me in the least, and that some of them escape, having found the pony's kingdom to be far less intense and tyrannical, the short time they were there. Most of the episode could be about the small band of changelings haven taken the form of some of the Mane 6 to try and blend in, but the ponies catch onto it, and Twilight changes them back by force, or they willingly do it themselves. They would then communicate (can they even talk, like Chrysalis, I wonder?) that they ran away from home, and that they honestly prefer to there in Canterlot. I'd be interested in what Celestia would have to say about the matter; perhaps she could come down herself to Twilight's library and discuss the matter with the two groups.

[Silverhoof 2,844]

The changeling diet is its biggest detractor. They feed off the love of others. That makes the entire race out to be psychic vampires. Hardly a comforting thought when they want to live among those they consider "food."

 

As much as you like changelings, their diet will make them villains wherever they go. They are one race that no one can redeem.

[Count Paradox 3,548]

The changeling diet is its biggest detractor. They feed off the love of others. That makes the entire race out to be psychic vampires. Hardly a comforting thought when they want to live among those they consider "food."

 

As much as you like changelings, their diet will make them villains wherever they go. They are one race that no one can redeem.

 

well, is feeding off of love really a BAD thing? usually, there is love everywhere you go, it is an endless supply, and I don't think that a few changelings would really need that much love to survive, i mean, really, and ponyville is FULL of love!

[Silverhoof 2,844]

well, is feeding off of love really a BAD thing? usually, there is love everywhere you go, it is an endless supply, and I don't think that a few changelings would really need that much love to survive, i mean, really, and ponyville is FULL of love!

 

There are those (such as myself) who do not wish to be fed upon. How do you prove in court that you were fed upon without permission?

 

A few changelings to start off with yes. But they BREED. Soon there will be more. With their ability to change shape how do you keep track of their numbers?

 

Bottom line: Changelings are parasites. Ponies are just cattle to them. Its hard to respect the rights of those who are your food. Does a cow have any say when its led to a butcher? No.

Changelings and free ponies simply cannot exist together.

[Kris Adams 7]

Makes Me Wonder If Spike's Pet Pee-Wee Is Gonna Appear Again In Season 3

But Yeah, As For Evil Ones, I Think We'll See More!!

All's I Know About Season 3 Are The Rumored Pictures And There Are Going To Be PonyGators

Edited August 19, 2012 by Kris Adams

[brian577 120]

For anyone who thinks changelings aren't evil. Look at this scene and tell me they aren't. I dare you

[Batbrony 16,054]

Hmmm... there are some things about what you said that I like, and other things that I don't. I'll start with what I disagree with; I disagree that the Mane 6 write off entire species as being evil. It's simply been that in many, many cases, the Mane 6 have run into members of certain species who happen to either be (1) evil, or (2) overtly aggressive, in an animalistic sense, because keep in mind, not all of these species that the Mane 6 have dealt with are as advanced as the ponies, and some, such as the Hydra, aren't even sentient (i.e. can't speak, and as such are purely animals in the first place). I also disagree that Spike is the only other creature outside of ponies that we've seen coexisting alongside the ponies; so far in the series, we've seen (1) zebras (which, to be fair, you did mention), (2) buffaloes, (3) donkeys, (4) mules (yes, there is a difference, LOL ), (5) sheep, (6) cows (although I feel somewhat odd including the latter 2 since they seem to be treated as farm animals, even though they are clearly sentient, though to be fair, we have seen cows a couple of times in Ponyville purchasing goods). So, clearly, a number of species coexist alongside ponies.

 

However, I will say that I like the idea of learning more about the Changelings. Yes, the only time we've seen them, it was entirely in an evil capacity. However, like you said, there is a very good chance that a number of Changelings may not be as aggressive as Queen Chrysalis or the army that she led. Now, that doesn't mean that they aren't quite primitive, and as such are probably easily swayed to adopt aggressive behavior, but there are a number of scenarios that could work for a good Changeling episode. In fact, I can name off quite a few; (1) Fluttershy (or some other pony) finds an infant/adolescent Changeling, perhaps in the Everfree Forest, (2) Twilight, or the residents of Ponyville, take in an injured Changeling left behind or captured after a battle between the ponies and the Changelings, (3) a Changeling that has gone undercover in Ponyville learns to love all of the ponies and befriends them. These are just a few of many scenarios that could work, and I'd really like to see one of these scenarios adapted into an episode next season!

 

Edited August 19, 2012 by Batbrony

[dreaper 136]

I don't know, IMO the Changelings are much like insects, they have lots of drones and one queen that commands them, in this case Chrysalis, and she is depicted as the EVIL villain and the only Changeling capable of speech and thinking, and the worst part is the way they feed, that alone just makes them parasites. I want to see more about Changelings too, but I don't think they could be used in a scenario like that. They're just an parasitic species and will be hard to believe that something good can come from them.

 

If you ask me, I think dragons are the best choice for this. It makes sense for the ponies to fear them and think they're evil, since they are depicted as big, powerful, greedy and strong beasts, however each individual dragon is shown be sentient and also capable to have emotions, so is not far fetched seeing a nice dragon family or a hidden dragon civilization in the future. Also we got Spike, an established main character that is the only one from a completely different species that lives among the ponies, so... I can see Spike getting a lot of prejudice from the ponies.

 

In fact I posted an episode idea in another thread some time ago that deals with this scenario:

 

 

I would like an Spike episode that deals of the consequences of being the only dragon living among ponies.

 

It could be a 2 parter episode, and it will start with Spike having a natural growth spurt (his new shape will be completely different from the Secret of My Excess one, I think it would be nice if he grows to the size of a regular pony, he may also get wings), and while he, the mane 6, the CMC and the rest of Ponyville thinks he looks awesome and cool, the ponies that don't live there gets concerned that there is an apex predator living among them and that Equestria is in serious danger.

 

These ponies will form an "anti-dragon" activist group, that will go around every single town and city of Equestria, telling how evil and horrible dragons are and that there is one living in Ponyville, soon more scared ponies will join the group and decide that Spike has to be banished from Equestria forever if they want a safe future.

 

Of course the mane 6, the CMC, the princesses and Ponyville will be on Spike's side, defending him from whats going on. However things get more difficult when Spike takes the blame of a series of accidents, in which stuff get stolen, buildings get destroyed and ponies get hurt. Soon things get so bad that Spike becomes "Equestria's enemy number one", the huge pressure that Celestia gets from the "anti-dragon" group and the majority of the citizens of Equestria, forces her to drop her support for Spike, and to make things worse doubt starts to arise in Ponyville residents and some of the ponies of mane 6 (I think Fluttershy and Pinkie Pie would be the ones who could doubt Spike's ability to contain his dragon instincts). When Spike realizes that even some his friens may turn against him, he flees to a place to think (he could get a song here), and concludes that he has been a fool thinking that he could have a happy life with the ponies and decide that the best thing to do is turn himself in to Equestrian authorities. When he does that, he is condemned to exile, gets locked in a cage and is dragged around the streets of Canterlot, in which angry mobs start trowing things at him and telling him mean things. The mane 6 ends up morally devastated and even Princess Celestia feels awful for what she has done.

 

Part one would end with the mane 6 looking at Spike getting dragged away from Equestria with tears on their eyes.

 

[Tyroq 344]

An M. Night Shyamalan level Plot Twist...

 

 

Zecora is secretly a Changeling! But she split from Chrysalis a long time ago and so was not part of her army that attacked Canterlot. In fact, she was the former queen of the Changelings but was unable to keep her position when Chrysalis rose to power, and so she fled into exile, hiding in the Everfree Forest so Chrysalis' minions wouldn't find her.

 

Edited August 19, 2012 by Tyroq

[Magic Man 222]

For anyone who thinks changelings aren't evil. Look at this scene and tell me they aren't. I dare you

 

Perhaps you missed the point I made before. The Changelings who invaded Canterlot were Chrysalis' Army! Their orders were to occupy the city and feed on the citizens' love. An army of creatures is not representative of an entire species or nationality. Think of say, the Iraqis or better yet, the Afghanis' perspective of the US. The only Americans many of them have likely seen are the soldiers occupying their country, so that then may affect their view of Americans as a whole.

 

The changeling diet is its biggest detractor. They feed off the love of others. That makes the entire race out to be psychic vampires. Hardly a comforting thought when they want to live among those they consider "food."

 

As much as you like changelings, their diet will make them villains wherever they go. They are one race that no one can redeem.

 

Yes, but their diet does not just automatically MAKE them evil. It's their food source, something they HAVE to do and probably really can't help, even if they wanted to.

[Silverhoof 2,844]

Yes, but their diet does not just automatically MAKE them evil. It's their food source, something they HAVE to do and probably really can't help, even if they wanted to.

 

But, feeding off other living beings leads to ill will. Do you expect donor ponies to line up and let a changeling feed off his mind?

 

This is the vampire equation that people forget. A lot of novels feature vampires that are good, respecting humans even while feeding off them. One forgets that familiarity breeds contempt. At some point, respect begins to fade as the vampire has less and less in common with his former life. Humans cease to be equal in regards to basic rights and become nothing more than cattle.

 

 

Familiarity breeds contempt is what eventually drives all vampires towards evil. You cannot respect the rights of your food. All vampires, psychic or blood thirsty, will eventually turn evil-at least in the eyes of those who must live with them.

 

Further, feeding for a changeling is an invisible act. The temptation to feed without permission will be irresistible. Especially if the changeling can be anyone at anytime.

 

Let me ask all of you this question: Do you really think a loving family will allow a psychic vampire to feed off --and diminish-- their love for one another?

[Magic Man 222]

But, feeding off other living beings leads to ill will. Do you expect donor ponies to line up and let a changeling feed off his mind?

 

This is the vampire equation that people forget. A lot of novels feature vampires that are good, respecting humans even while feeding off them. One forgets that familiarity breeds contempt. At some point, respect begins to fade as the vampire has less and less in common with his former life. Humans cease to be equal in regards to basic rights and become nothing more than cattle.

 

 

Familiarity breeds contempt is what eventually drives all vampires towards evil. You cannot respect the rights of your food. All vampires, psychic or blood thirsty, will eventually turn evil-at least in the eyes of those who must live with them.

 

Further, feeding for a changeling is an invisible act. The temptation to feed without permission will be irresistible. Especially if the changeling can be anyone at anytime.

 

Let me ask all of you this question: Do you really think a loving family will allow a psychic vampire to feed off --and diminish-- their love for one another?

 

To answer your question, no, I do not believe they will. One can argue that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, but when we ourselves are put in that situation with our own friends and loved ones, I doubt we'd be so willing.

 

I can understand the argument that ponies and Changelings can never live together in peace and be equals as the current situation stands. The only way they could then is if the situation DOES change, being the Changelings need to feed off others' love.

 

Hmmm... there are some things about what you said that I like, and other things that I don't. I'll start with what I disagree with; I disagree that the Mane 6 write off entire species as being evil. It's simply been that in many, many cases, the Mane 6 have run into members of certain species who happen to either be (1) evil, or (2) overtly aggressive, in an animalistic sense, because keep in mind, not all of these species that the Mane 6 have dealt with are as advanced as the ponies, and some, such as the Hydra, aren't even sentient (i.e. can't speak, and as such are purely animals in the first place). I also disagree that Spike is the only other creature outside of ponies that we've seen coexisting alongside the ponies; so far in the series, we've seen (1) zebras (which, to be fair, you did mention), (2) buffaloes, (3) donkeys, (4) mules (yes, there is a difference, LOL ), (5) sheep, (6) cows (although I feel somewhat odd including the latter 2 since they seem to be treated as farm animals, even though they are clearly sentient, though to be fair, we have seen cows a couple of times in Ponyville purchasing goods). So, clearly, a number of species coexist alongside ponies.

 

However, I will say that I like the idea of learning more about the Changelings. Yes, the only time we've seen them, it was entirely in an evil capacity. However, like you said, there is a very good chance that a number of Changelings may not be as aggressive as Queen Chrysalis or the army that she led. Now, that doesn't mean that they aren't quite primitive, and as such are probably easily swayed to adopt aggressive behavior, but there are a number of scenarios that could work for a good Changeling episode. In fact, I can name off quite a few; (1) Fluttershy (or some other pony) finds an infant/adolescent Changeling, perhaps in the Everfree Forest, (2) Twilight, or the residents of Ponyville, take in an injured Changeling left behind or captured after a battle between the ponies and the Changelings, (3) a Changeling that has gone undercover in Ponyville learns to love all of the ponies and befriends them. These are just a few of many scenarios that could work, and I'd really like to see one of these scenarios adapted into an episode next season!

 

 

Well, yes, I suppose I did make a bit of a sweeping statement, even if I did say "most" and not "all". Of course, I do recognize there are many species the ponies co-exist with; I suppose I just failed to mention it and judging by such an extensive list, I feel kinda dumb.

 

I like your ideas for how this could work. With the infant version, it will lead inevitably to the discussion of what will become if it when it grows up; will it be their friend or an enemy?

 

The changelings' existence has not yet been proven to be lawfully evil, as the only situation we've seen them under has been because they're searching for food. Now granted, Chrysalis herself is obviously a bitch to some degree, because she clearly loved taking over the kingdom, and the fringe benefits of gaining power, but like you mentioned about people judging others through their leaders, that isn't to say all her subjects are the same way. I too like the idea of a changeling or a few turning out to be good guys, or at the very least, neutral and willing to interact with or hang out or help the ponies. The possibilities for both comedic and helpful interaction using their appearance copying abilities is quite tasteful.

 

To be honest, I think having them be neutral is probably the best way to go. Just because they're not all evil, doesn't mean they're plucky young go-getters who "just want a chance"...sorry, I've just seen a lot of films.

 

But yes, I agree with you on the possibilities. Changelings would make better allies than they would enemies, considering their powers.

 

Spike is a dragon, and he is not evil. That's really the only example of what you're talking about existing in the show currently.

 

Also, I like this idea. A lot. A good changeling... That itself would just make me love the episode. I highly doubt anything like this will air, though, because out of the 89,728,639 ideas for episodes that are floating around out there, this particular one won't be one that is picked.

 

I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for, because like I said, most likely won't happen, but I do say that this would be a very good moral for kids to learn, and this is pretty much the only episode idea that I've actually taken time to respond to in any way, shape, or form.

 

Yes, I know. I have since corrected my mistake in failling to mention that. But still, that could serve as a good in-show example to the ponies, in which Spike actually starts defending Changelings, saying how as a dragon he's still accepted despite all the bad encounters the Mane Six have had with his kind.

 

Of course I do accept the possibility that such an episode may not happen, but right now, it's just as possible as the other 89,728,638 ideas like you said. I personally would really like to see it happen, if not just for the very important message it has to teach. Tolerance of people different to us is something that really needs to be encouraged in this day and age.