technology Support the construction of a space elevator!

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

To all those ponies saying "where will this lift go" etc. It's elegantly simple, in fact I think I remember a question regarding Space lifts in an exam paper I had about 7 years ago, I think there was something about it being attached to a geostationary satellite

Personally, I've always thought that was obvious. I mean, how else would you expect something THAT high to stay upright, without tremendous power consumption or stress?

[nerd]Also, an "airport for space" would be rather called "spaceport".[/nerd]

 

Weather shouldn't be a problem, but I've been wondering about tidal forces. I mean, the Moon can stir up the sea down here, it would surely have a non-negligible effect on a space station? But then geostationary satellites also go through that and they still stay positioned with enough precision for GPS, so I doubt it'd be an issue for the station at the end of the lift.

Why would I ever murder anyone? Not only is killing badong, I have no reason to. That is actually pretty good. Better than anything I could come up with

That was actually part of the joke, haha. But thank you anyway. :3 Edited September 22, 2012 by Feather Spiral

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

Personally, I've always thought that was obvious. I mean, how else would you expect something THAT high to stay upright, without tremendous power consumption or stress?

[nerd]Also, an "airport for space" would be rather called "spaceport".[/nerd]

 

Weather shouldn't be a problem, but I've been wondering about tidal forces. I mean, the Moon can stir up the sea down here, it would surely have a non-negligible effect on a space station? But then geostationary satellites also go through that and they still stay positioned with enough precision for GPS, so I doubt it'd be an issue for the station at the end of the lift.

That was actually part of the joke, haha. But thank you anyway. :3

 

Wouldnt air resistance and wind, drag etc. Slow the cable down? That would exert friction and exert force against the orbit. Eventually the orbit would decay unless the spacestation would have to have a fuel source (new solar powered technology?) To constantly recalculate its orbit due to this.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

Wouldnt air resistance and wind, drag etc. Slow the cable down? That would exert friction and exert force against the orbit. Eventually the orbit would decay unless the spacestation would have to have a fuel source (new solar powered technology?) To constantly recalculate its orbit due to this.

 

The planet is rotating with the air and the cable along with it, so no air resistance is created. Retros will need to be on the satellite for emergency scenarios.

 

And as for tidal concerns, most of that is negligible. We are talking a change by 1-2 feet at a maximum on a 60,000 mile cable.

 

Also, after perusing the actuall site for a few days, it would appear that this is a lunar space elevator

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

The planet is rotating with the air and the cable along with it, so no air resistance is created. Retros will need to be on the satellite for emergency scenarios.

 

And as for tidal concerns, most of that is negligible. We are talking a change by 1-2 feet at a maximum on a 60,000 mile cable.

 

Also, after perusing the actuall site for a few days, it would appear that this is a lunar space elevator

 

What about wind corrections? The wind could slow it down or speed it up, and overtime, it could decay the orbit. What if there is a hurricane on the boat?

[RazzyJam 1,519]

What about wind corrections? The wind could slow it down or speed it up, and overtime, it could decay the orbit. What if there is a hurricane on the boat?

 

Then that becomes a change in position at the base, not velocity. You have to think of the elevator and the planet as a fixed object. Because the elevator is rotating with the planet at the same velocity, It is technically at a standstill.

[Discovery Dream 592]

Hmm, Feld0, helping to build an elevator into space?

Why am i not surprised?

I've heard of this theory before and it really is possible.

Hehe, will donate when I can! FOR SCIENCE!

[Cherry Blossom 863]

This would be a very nice idea, but this would require the cooperation of the whole world. Plus you would also have to think about how you're going to power the whole thing, but unless it would be powered by solar energy. There would also be international issues regarding safety for the people below the space elevator. What if the space elevator shattered into a trillion pieces and started falling onto the populace? It is a gateway for terrorism to just pop inside. There can also be revolts on this through religion. Trying to build it while getting it through the Earth's atmosphere will also be very difficult. Plus there would have to be plenty of astronaut/cosmonaut engineers to even build the thing. It's not like there's easily going to be a giant space crane that can easily stay in place. How are all the materials going to even to sent up to space? This may further devastate the world economy if this project ends up a failure.

 

Though there would be positive side effects regarding economy, solar energy fuels, and population growth. If this space elevator can supply solar energy for the whole world then I wouldn't see a problem regarding the use of fossil fuels. Plus this may save a lot of money to use for more important things like charity and preventing poverty. Then the human population can be further extended unless some war in outer space starts. It would be a shame if humanity is still divided if the construction of the space elevator is complete.

 

Though I have high hopes that humanity will have the potential to do something like this.

[Leon 27]

This is great and all but my only fear is what if that thing falls at that high up? That could do some massive damage. O.o

I mean at that height that thing could take out a long of things. O.o

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

There would also be international issues regarding safety for the people below the space elevator. What if the space elevator shattered into a trillion pieces and started falling onto the populace? It is a gateway for terrorism to just pop inside.

This is great and all but my only fear is what if that thing falls at that high up? That could do some massive damage. O.o

I mean at that height that thing could take out a long of things. O.o

I highly doubt it'd be nearly as risky as all the debris already in orbit at various altitudes.

I also don't see why terrorists would get into the station BEFORE emergency procedures start, nor how the whole thing would just drop like a rock.

[walale12 23]

...terrorism...

 

The answer is elegantly simple, what contingencies do we have to stop nasty people sneaking bombs onto planes?

Metal detectors, Chemical detectors, Armed security. The only way I think a terrorist could destroy it it if they used a 9/11 style attack on it, but then we just need to make everywhere within 100km of the lift a no-fly zone, and shoot down anything which flies in.

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

anything which flies in.

Not craft in distress, hopefully. D:

Also, detectors and sniffing dogs are only effective on some materials. It's possible to get ceramic-bladed knives past metal detectors, for example: or bring everyday stuff to prepare your own bomb (hence why liquids are so tightly controlled in airports).

[walale12 23]

Not craft in distress, hopefully. D:

Also, detectors and sniffing dogs are only effective on some materials. It's possible to get ceramic-bladed knives past metal detectors, for example: or bring everyday stuff to prepare your own bomb (hence why liquids are so tightly controlled in airports).

 

Well, if it's a huge airliner which hasn't been hijacked, then maybe it shouldn't be shot down, but, we can impose airport like restrictions on liquids and we can also have armed security, so when somebody pulls a knife, they get shot/arrested.

[TOMahwk 351]

Space elevator? I think if we make a space elevator we should first come up with some quality elevator music. I don't want to listen to the stuff we have now if we do make one, I mean that'll be the worst ride ever...

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

@@TOMahwk, this good?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNCDc-WUZJE

 

I've been having second thoughts about this. I mean, yes, technology and safety will most certainly have improved by the time this project is over... but the bad guys know progress, too.

While authority organizations and federal agencies put up defenses against ill-intentioned people, the latter are also devising strategies to get around the obstacles.

 

Though, at the same time, I think: flight is considered the safest means of transportation today, probably because of all the security measures. Then this space elevator would be even safer, right? Maybe TOO safe, to the point of being oppressive, but wouldn't it be worth the trouble to get up there?

I, for one, wouldn't mind if I could spend a day (even a few hours) floating weightlessly and watching my home land from so high up above.

 

Unfortunately, I still don't believe it wise to finish it within our lifetimes. Everywhere we go, we pollute, even outer space; we should find a way to AT LEAST get rid of the largest junk in orbit.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Feather Spiral

[RazzyJam 1,519]

@@TOMahwk, this good?

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNCDc-WUZJE

 

I've been having second thoughts about this. I mean, yes, technology and safety will most certainly have improved by the time this project is over... but the bad guys know progress, too.

While authority organizations and federal agencies put up defenses against ill-intentioned people, the latter are also devising strategies to get around the obstacles.

 

Though, at the same time, I think: flight is considered the safest means of transportation today, probably because of all the security measures. Then this space elevator would be even safer, right? Maybe TOO safe, to the point of being oppressive, but wouldn't it be worth the trouble to get up there?

I, for one, wouldn't mind if I could spend a day (even a few hours) floating weightlessly and watching my home land from so high up above.

 

Unfortunately, I still don't believe it wise to finish it within our lifetimes. Everywhere we go, we pollute, even outer space; we should find a way to AT LEAST get rid of the largest junk in orbit.

 

Well, Im not to worried about bad guys yet, and this whole post may address all of these concerns simultaneously.

 

The construction of this elevator would be for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to provide a cheap way into space. Already, you have cut billions out of the budget by relieving ourselves the burden of constructing rockets to get into space. This wont serve as some fancy hotel or anything, this structure would be the frontline of international cooperation and scientific advancement. We would be able to conduct space missions with ease, some space missions that are already planned out now that could just save the human race.

 

Back in April of 2012, a bunch of rich guys got together and decided they wanted to make money from space. When I day rich guys, I mean people from all sorts of industries: Google, Microsoft, Waste Management. You name it. They came up with the idea of taking space junk out of orbit and deconstructing near earth objects for mineral resources. 1 pound of space junk is worth up to 100,000 dollars. This is fine and dandy, but it already costs 10% of that to get into orbit and retrieve it (per pound). If we had a space elevator, the cost of getting into space could drop from $10,000 to $5 per pound. With that, we could haul in our trash and make money at the same time.

 

Security measures? How about 3 or four destroyers with anti-ICBM rail-guns? sounds good enough to me.

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

Security measures? How about 3 or four destroyers with anti-ICBM rail-guns? sounds good enough to me.

That's quite fine against EXTERNAL PHYSICAL threats, but I'm talking about attacks from inside, sillyhead. XP

 

As for bad guys, I'm not really talking about terrorists, but rather people against scientific initiatives such as this. Remember, terrorists don't attack animal testing labs, animal rights activists do.

Don't ask ME to come up with an excuse to assault a space station though. I'm just saying, dumbasses most certainly WILL find something. That it's against God's will, that it's going to crash into the moon, that it's going to drag Earth off-course... whatever floats their boat.

They might decide to fight fire with fire, if you catch my drift, and mess with the elevator's electronics for example. I really don't know what exactly they may do, I usually don't think about that shit until it happens.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Feather Spiral

[RazzyJam 1,519]

-snip-

 

You are quite tight in this though, very little can be done to defend its intrest. If some dumbass or some group of dumbasses want to stop it from happening or take it down, they will try and find a way. I would just hope that the people responsible for the elevators construction would have such confidence in its capability that they could put on badass sunglasses, stare into the camera, and dramaticaly say: "They may try"

[Forlong 1,725]

What? NO! That is a very dumb idea for some very obvious reasons.

• You can't just stack up a straight line vertically. Wind resistance would cause it to sway and collapse. You'd need a base about as big around as Rhode Island to keep it stable.
• How would the construction workers get to the top of the elevator. Eventually, it would be very hard to breath or even get up there.
• Such a project would cost billions of US dollars. We already have more than enough debt, thank you very much.
• It would take the fastest elevator in the world 189 days to reach optimal orbit altitude.
• Micro-meteor strikes are a major issue for anything in space, something over 1,000 km long would be a serious liability. And it would have to be about 100 times longer than that.
• The Moon would cause it to sway with it's own gravitational pull.

I am not wasting my money on an idea that can never work, and neither should you.

[Zoop 8,384]

What? NO! That is a very dumb idea for some very obvious reasons.

You might consider reading some of the other posts in this thread. I'm pretty sure every single one of these concerns have been addressed. Several times over. For each item listed.

[Forlong 1,725]

Theoretically, we could send any unwanted trash into space.

Not a good idea, according to Futurama.

 

I can understand how most people would think something like this is ridiculous, but when you think about it, people in the 60's probably had the same reaction about the moon landing. I'm pretty excited that something like this could actually happen in the next few years, and I think it's great to want to support this despite the many challenges it will face in its development.

That is something completely different. In the 1960s, the average American didn't think we had the technology to get to the moon. In 2012, we think the space elevator wouldn't work because it would collapse under it's own weight. The numbers don't add up. A space elevator can't work. There is to much space junk orbiting Earth for it to be safe, it would be far more expensive than a re-usable rocket, and it would have terrible balance.

 

I love how all these people in here are saying "it won't work because of X and Y" and "there's still this problem to work out" as if the people designing it are a bunch of highschool kids. Do you really think that nobody thought of all this?

Yes, I am convinced that the board of directors for this company is made up of idiots. Am I not allowed to assume they are stupid for proposing a stupid idea? If they so obviously did think of it, show me. Prove to me that they thought of everything that could possibly go wrong, and that it would be more productive to build a re-usable rocket.

 

You might be able to do the former but not the later. Building a rocket would not put thousands of workers and risk and require special planes just for construction. It is a more practical idea and would pay for itself more easily. But what do I know? I only have a 140 IQ.

 

The idea of a space elevator is completely absurd.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

-snip-

 

Seeing as you have not found any of my response to this, i suppose I can reiterate the facts about the superstructure to relieve you of the strain of having to go back farther than two or three pages to inform yourself as to the nature of such a device.

 

First off, you have to understand that this isn't a free standing structure. Its nothing more than an over-glorified birthday balloon really, but instead of helium keeping it aloft, the force of a counterweight in constant acceleration around the earth will keep the structure suspended, or orbit if you will. Keeping the structure in geostationary orbit will effectively pull the weight of the cable away from the earth, so any weight that could be potentially hazardous is now counteracted by orbital movement. Wind resistance is not a factor as the whole planet, the air contained in its atmosphere, and the elevator itself move as one object. No air friction ever occurs.

 

Now for those other concerns, Lets start from the top, shall we?

First off, the issue of space-junk and garbage was addressed as follows: The elevator will be equipped with retro rockets to move the station out of the way of material. It will also be tethered to a large water based ship that could also move the station.

 

This structure would cost near 500 million. Not miserable, especially considering the billions and possibly trillions it could contribute to the economy

 

This isn't a traditional elevator. Its more like a tram car that travels vertically. We can get people into orbit in under 3 hours.

 

This isn't 100,000 km long, only 60,000. and even then if it gets hit it is in orbit; it isn't going to just fall out of the sky.

 

The moon is thousands of miles away and has a negligible gravitational effect on the station. If it did have an efect, no one could go into space in any way shape or form. Technically if it had a gravitational force that effected earth, you would have to replace it with something that has similar mass as Neptune.

 

Wait... are you using Futurama to argue scientific theory...

Actually, this station could serve to do the contrary: Haul space junk back to earth. As I stated earlier, 1 pound of spaceshit is worth 100,000 US dollars (thats a 100% increase from how much it costs to get into space in the first place).

 

Again, see my previous statistics on rockets versus elevators. Rockets are nowhere near as efficient as this elevator will be. Junk is a minimal issue, and perhaps even a solution. Again, weight isn't an issue, its floating in orbit.

 

The proof is in the 20 plus posts I put up on this thread. Ive been communicating with LiftPort on getting an internship sometime in the near future. This sort of thing has always been a dream of mine to build, and a dream that I will soon help make a reality whith those who share my ambition. This elevator is the solution to the space travel issue because re-usable rockets willnever be efficient enough to compete with it. Burning fuel and rebuilding thrusters is nowhere near as cheap as flipins a switch and climbing a cable like its Jack and the Bean Stalk.

 

This structure would be one of the safest engineering marvels humankind has ever constructed. Its construction may be a challenge, but it is not one that the human race can not handle, especially if it means its advancement toward a better future. We could put people among the stars and jumpstart the space industry with the construction of even one elevator. It could serve as the hub for thousands of economic, political, and scientific operations that would make the world a better, richer, cleaner place.

[Feather Spiral 1,892]

But what do I know? I only have a 140 IQ.

 

Forgive me, but intelligence tests only show how much your thinking is similar to that of intelligence test makers.

For REAL intelligence level, I'd rather rely on my own observation of someone's actions/arguments.

 

Since you like fictional references, let's take Eggman.

 

According to Wave (Sonic Riders), he has an IQ of 300 (if my memory serves me right). He knows how fast Sonic is, that he has friends (and pretty much everyone who's not a bad guy) supporting Sonic against badniks and such.

Yet, with all that intelligence, he insists on sending only one robot at a time (usually among the slowest) with a blatantly exposed weak spot. Even worse, his servant robots could've been entirely logical and methodical, yet they tend to have emotions that get in the way (such as Emerl that got attached to Cream and couldn't do a thing against her when she protected her friends).

 

Would you STILL say Eggman is intelligent because of his IQ?

[Smokin'HotRarity 182]

Forgive me, but intelligence tests only show how much your thinking is similar to that of intelligence test makers.

For REAL intelligence level, I'd rather rely on my own observation of someone's actions/arguments.

 

Since you like fictional references, let's take Eggman.

 

According to Wave (Sonic Riders), he has an IQ of 300 (if my memory serves me right). He knows how fast Sonic is, that he has friends (and pretty much everyone who's not a bad guy) supporting Sonic against badniks and such.

Yet, with all that intelligence, he insists on sending only one robot at a time (usually among the slowest) with a blatantly exposed weak spot. Even worse, his servant robots could've been entirely logical and methodical, yet they tend to have emotions that get in the way (such as Emerl that got attached to Cream and couldn't do a thing against her when she protected her friends).

 

Would you STILL say Eggman is intelligent because of his IQ?

 

Maybe in the dimension Eggman is in he always wins, and the dimension Sonic is in he always win. Who knows? Besides it's a TV show, bad guys always lose, otherwise the series would end.

Edited October 9, 2012 by glitterlicious

[Forlong 1,725]

First off, you have to understand that this isn't a free standing structure. Its nothing more than an over-glorified birthday balloon really, but instead of helium keeping it aloft, the force of a counterweight in constant acceleration around the earth will keep the structure suspended, or orbit if you will. Keeping the structure in geostationary orbit will effectively pull the weight of the cable away from the earth, so any weight that could be potentially hazardous is now counteracted by orbital movement. Wind resistance is not a factor as the whole planet, the air contained in its atmosphere, and the elevator itself move as one object. No air friction ever occurs.

"I know how to fix this. Let's just put a rocket on top of it. That will fix it, right?"

 

Not right. momentum at the peak of the device would increase stress at the center making it more likely to break.

 

First off, the issue of space-junk and garbage was addressed as follows: The elevator will be equipped with retro rockets to move the station out of the way of material. It will also be tethered to a large water based ship that could also move the station.

Micro-meteorites, genius. Those are invisible to the naked eye. Space ships are able to compensate for this easily because none of them are 60,000 km long. And this stuff can be moving at half the speed of light. Not a lot of good kevlar can do against that. How can you not see how stupid it is to build something that big out of materials not rated against those kinds of projectiles?

 

This structure would cost near 500 million. Not miserable, especially considering the billions and possibly trillions it could contribute to the economy

NASA already invented a reusable shuttle more than 30 years ago. How about we build off that and make it more efficient instead of something completely new that can never work.

 

Also, how would it contribute to the economy? This isn't a mine we're talking about, it would be a recreational facility. It would not have any output.

 

This isn't a traditional elevator. Its more like a tram car that travels vertically. We can get people into orbit in under 3 hours.

It would take the fastest tram in the world nearly a month to go that far on land. Put it on a vertical climb and it isn't even going anywhere. I assumed that they were at least smart enough to actually use something meant to travel vertically. Elevators use a pulley system and counterweights to resist gravity more easily. Trams don't work like that, so they would be useless in this endeavor.

 

This isn't 100,000 km long, only 60,000. and even then if it gets hit it is in orbit; it isn't going to just fall out of the sky.

Yeah, something hitting it at the half the speed of light won't give it forward momentum, will it?

 

The moon is thousands of miles away and has a negligible gravitational effect on the station. If it did have an efect, no one could go into space in any way shape or form. Technically if it had a gravitational force that effected earth, you would have to replace it with something that has similar mass as Neptune.

So...you're completely oblivious to the tides? The moon lifts over 1,000,000 kg of water every day. Yeah, it will have an effect on that lightweight elevator shaft.

 

Again, see my previous statistics on rockets versus elevators. Rockets are nowhere near as efficient as this elevator will be. Junk is a minimal issue, and perhaps even a solution. Again, weight isn't an issue, its floating in orbit.

Fastest elevator: 22 kph

Fastest rocket: 7,273 kph

 

Yeah, why would we want to use rockets instead of elevators?

 

Nope, not convinced. I am not convinced that a space elevator would be safer or cheaper than already existing technology.

[RazzyJam 1,519]

"I know how to fix this. Let's just put a rocket on top of it. That will fix it, right?"

 

Not right. momentum at the peak of the device would increase stress at the center making it more likely to break.

 

 

Micro-meteorites, genius. Those are invisible to the naked eye. Space ships are able to compensate for this easily because none of them are 60,000 km long. And this stuff can be moving at half the speed of light. Not a lot of good kevlar can do against that. How can you not see how stupid it is to build something that big out of materials not rated against those kinds of projectiles?

 

 

NASA already invented a reusable shuttle more than 30 years ago. How about we build off that and make it more efficient instead of something completely new that can never work.

 

Also, how would it contribute to the economy? This isn't a mine we're talking about, it would be a recreational facility. It would not have any output.

 

 

It would take the fastest tram in the world nearly a month to go that far on land. Put it on a vertical climb and it isn't even going anywhere. I assumed that they were at least smart enough to actually use something meant to travel vertically. Elevators use a pulley system and counterweights to resist gravity more easily. Trams don't work like that, so they would be useless in this endeavor.

 

 

Yeah, something hitting it at the half the speed of light won't give it forward momentum, will it?

 

 

So...you're completely oblivious to the tides? The moon lifts over 1,000,000 kg of water every day. Yeah, it will have an effect on that lightweight elevator shaft.

 

 

Fastest elevator: 22 kph

Fastest rocket: 7,273 kph

 

Yeah, why would we want to use rockets instead of elevators?

 

Nope, not convinced. I am not convinced that a space elevator would be safer or cheaper than already existing technology.

 

Clearly we have two issues here:

1) you are to consumed by your own opinion

2) because of 1, you are to reluctant to be open to this proposition

 

We aren't talking about rockets to lift the structure, we are talking about the earths rotation and the generation of centrifugal forces to push the structure away from the earth. No 'lifting is involved'. We keep the station in something called Geostationary Orbit, so that it does not move away from one specific point on the earths surface, and (as orbit implies) it stays at a constant altitude and velocity; the cable is just along for the ride.

 

Im aware of micro meteorites. They have never been an issue. The chance of getting hit by one is something along the lines of 1x10^-14. If it was such an issue, would the ISS be considered safe? Not to mention that the kevlar-carbon tube cable would be in atmosphere, so it would take a meteor the size of an SUV to hit it, considering anything smaller would burn up in atmosphere.

 

 

Wonderful! Im glad to hear you have found the missing copies of the blueprints that nasa outsourced to another agency! I and many other scientists and engineers were certain that they had been lost after that company went bankrupt, but clearly I was wrong. Its a good thing the government decided not to cancel the space program either, so we will have plenty of funding to start building these wonderful Space shuttles again! Thanks so much for saving that!*

*warning, this paragraph contains lethal amounts of sarcasm and verbal irony

 

Actually, this is a mine that we are talking about. Again, I implore you to read my previous posts, as they provide lots of insight to what this structure serves to do, how it will work, how it will be funded, usw.

 

Way not to take me literally.

This is a cable climbing elevator. There are plenty of models on youtube as to how it works. No pulleys and counterweights are involved, just clamps and wheels.

 

The station is in orbit. Cutting the cable would mean that the station would just float there.

 

1,000,000Kg huh? As compared to the Oceans trillions of Kg of water, this is nothing, and I would assume you know this. If the moon had the affect you are assuming it does, all of earths satellites would be drifting toward it. Again, you are overestimating its gravitational pull. The earth has more mass, so things are going to move toward it more.

 

Rockets require lots of fuel. Like $10,000 dollars worth of fuel per pound of cargo. Compared to a cheap electric elevator with a large lift platform, rockets are infinitely inefficient compared to an elevator. The elevator would be something like 10k for two tons of cargo. Thats pennies compared to rockets.

 

Yep...

 

Totally safer

Edited October 12, 2012 by WingedRatchet