S03:E05 - Magic Duel

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

It's too bad this thread is already 10 pages long, because now I want to go an brohoof the first person that identified the Yu-Gi-Oh references in Magic Duel. 

 

I'm a bit slow picking up on stuff at times.  For instance, I criticized the alicorn amulet turning up in a magic shop when it is actually a reference to the game shop Yugi's grandpa owns in Yu-Gi-Oh.  In the first Yugi episode, Kaiba tries to buy the Blue Eyes White Dragon card by offering him a suitcase full of cash.  Grandpa refuses, but to expedite today's MLP episode, the shopkeeper takes the big sack of bits.  Twilight Sparkle saying let's duel is also a trademark phrase from Yu-Gi-Oh.  And just as Yugi relies on his friends to overcome evil, the same is true of Twilight in today's episode.  The amulet itself is an item of great power but makes its user evil, just like the power of Orichalcos used in duels against Yugi in one of the story arcs.  And the episode even ends with a reluctant face turn by Trixie, similiar to Kaiba's although it took him an entire series to stop regarding Yugi as an enemy.

 

And perhaps the biggest irony of the episode is this:  Twilight beat Trixie by using magic TRICKS; illusions like we see from David Copperfield.  Too bad the alicorn amulet only grants its holder a small measure of omnipotence (infinite power) but not omniscience (infinite awareness of all things) and thus Trixie was unaware of the deception being used against her.  Hopefully the amulet will be locked up in a safe place now. 

 

 

Trixie: "Draw your last pathetic card so I can end this, Sparkle."

 

Twilight: "My friends' deck HAS no pathetic cards, Trixie. But it does contain... the unstoppable Celestia!"

 

Trixie: "That's impossible!"

 

Twilight: "I've assembled all five special cards; all five pieces of the puzzle!"

 

Trixie: "CELESTIA! It's not possible! Nopony's ever been able to call HER"

 

Twilight: "Celestia... obliterate!"

 

Trixie: "NOOO!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!"

[Pony Joe 583]

Episode started and ended mostly well. However i did not like why they made trixie remorseful, it's just not her character the should of kept her evil.

 

Remember how she was in Boast Busters?  She wasn't evil.  Boastful, overconfident, and indulgent in fame, but not evil.  It was the amulet that pushed her over the edge in this episode, but once it was rid of, and she found herself vulnerable to ridicule a second time.  Instead of once again doing a villain's exit (because that worked oh-so-well last time), she gave humility a shot to rescue some of her dignity, but continued to seek recognition for the act.

 

I don't think it was very out-of-character at all.

[NavelColt 22,879]

Timeline thoughts:

 

-Wow, that introduction was far unlike anything we've seen thus far. Dark, mysterious, ominous. We've had those elements before but nothing like that.

-Fluttershy threatening Twilight over her animals? Yes.

-Pony hooves produce nails? Seems legit.

-Why is making objects fly in a loop formation portrayed as so hard? I feel like they could have come up with a far more interesting 'high level' thing for Twilight to perform. We've seen Twilight perform a lot of things that are more complex than that. I dunno, just the first thing to mind.

-Dashie yet again tackling her pony friends when it's srs business? Double yes.

-Dat rock farm reference. Dat Pinkie mouth deleted by mouse and trashcan.

-Hah, I liked the back and forth initial duel. Very humorous. Parasprites

-Good thing Celestia is away. An actual glass dome to keep Twilight out? Celestia would make a spit take up from her castle if she noticed this, and would intervene at least for the reason that traffic in and out of Ponyville would be halted xP

-Zecora teaching Twilight? YES. TEACH TWI TO BE A BAD-ASS VOODOO PRIESTESS. DO IT, FILLY.

-Tickle torture? Wasn't expecting that. But I'm okay with ponies being tickled. Too bad it wasn't Dashie, though.

-'Somepony has to help us D':' Sorry Rarity, Twi's banished and Luna is the only princess around, but sadly she's either sleeping or gaming.

-Fluttershy not being heard again by everyone. Saw it coming. Approve.

-Wait, it's a force-field, not glass? Sure looked and sounded like glass. Oh well. Traffic would still be an issue if Trixie, a non-royal, is the one allowing and disallowing entry.

-Oooohoho, it was Flutterlog. Nice plan.

-After seeing this episode, I am officially referencing to Zecora as the Yoda of the MLP universe.

-DOUBLE RAINBOW x3 Love Dash's expression. 'Damn, I look good.'

-YES. YES. YES. EVEN THOUGH IT TURNED OUT TO BE BIG MAC, RULE 63 REFERENCES ARE NOW CANON. FUCKYEAH.JPG

-Ohey, Dashie DID get tickled Okay, I'm happy now.

-Oh look, redemption. Sort of. And best Pinkie fourth wall closing ever.

 

 

Overall, very good. While I will never like Trixie myself, I can now say she is far more deserving of her rather large fanbase than she was before. You know, now that she actually obtained the power to back up her over-the-top attitude and boasting, instead of having nothing to show for it other than simple tricks that didn't do anything when push came to shove. That was frankly one of the things that irritated me most about her, so I'm actually glad she came back as more of a legit threat.

 

If anything, I'm mildly disappointed that the amulet didn't have anything to do with Sombra. Oh well, a minor nitpick. Plus, in a way, Trixie acted like Sombra. Darkish magic that, though a different color, kinda resembled his dark magic, plus she was super cruel like him. Still hope we seem him more in the future, though.

[Stellafera 3,836]

I very much appreciated the "Turns out it was just good costuming!" end. I was about to go "Oh my Celestia, and we thought the Pinkie clones raised some ethical issues".

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

I find it a little bit strange that this episode could change anyone's opinion about Trixie that much.

 

Good bits first: Trixie apologized. Move her from 0% approval to 5% approval. Yay. I mean, sure she apologized, (finally) and I don't doubt her sincerity. I notice that it didn't take long before she started boasting again, but since she was boasting about being humble, maybe that was just her joking with Twilight.

 

In contast, there is her bad behaviour during the episode:

Threatening everypony, making Spike into a ball, etc to get Twilight to duel with her, making slaves of everyone in Ponyville, putting Mayor Mare in a cage, forcing children to be her playthings and pull her around when she is powerful enough with the amulet to simply teleport, and so on.

 

But what's that you say? "The amulet corrupted her, so we cannot blame her for her actions"? I have a few problems with that:

First, she only put on the amulet in the first place to get her revenge on Twilight for "humiliating" her. And she made that choice before any corruption took place. Second, the shopkeeper warned her it was "far too dangerous," but she wasn't interested in listening. Third, if you use something that corrupts you, you are still responsible for what you do under it's influence. It's like getting drunk, driving and knocking someone over and killing them. Are you really going to get off scott-free by claiming it's all the fault of the alcohol? Four, we are not told what this "corruption" does, how it works, which emotions it plays on, etc. Fifth, we are told that "the more you use it, the more it corrupts you". A lot of the bad things Trixie did in this episode were done at the beginning, so the level of corruption was less than what it was at the end, which means it's less the influence of the amulet and more the responsibility of Trixie.

 

Apart from that, the episode was okay, but not great for me. I did like Twilight walking on water though.

 

tl;dr : I didn't like Trixie before; I still don't like her; you can't just blame the amulet for everything bad; she did show some sort of goodness/humbleness/apologetic-ness at the end which I acknowledge.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[Yellow Diamond 7,568]

@@Wingnut,

@@Evilshy,

 

Nice catch with the potential Yu-Gi-Oh references. That did not occur to me in the slightest. Every time I heard them mention "duel," my mind kept running to Revolver Ocelot from Metal Gear Solid---especially in Snake Eater when Ocelot keeps getting schooled by Naked Snake. I doubt there was any intention of referencing MGS with those moments. Yu-Gi-Oh seems legit, though.

[Arcanel 3,041]

@@~Chaotic Discord~, To respond your good question my friend! I think the loop factor is increased in that, this time, it's LIVING THINGS, we're talking about. This is probably the first time we saw (or Twilight did for that matter) her handling living beings in sucha way. Plus, in the demonstration, she did more than that as well. The loop was just the opening (which I believe the delegates from Saddle Arabia a dn everyone else thoroughly enjoy). Plus, she WAS "threatened" by Fluttershy, so any minimum scratch probably meant a trip straight to live down The Stare.

 

@, Um...I think you're forgetting something. Aside from Trixie being super annoying, she wan't really a villain and more like a small antagonist in the same way as Gilda. Now she was badder than before, actually posed a threat, looked convincingly evil (complete with great evil laugh (a reason now I love Kathleen Barr), black cape, red eyes, powerful magic and even loss of sanity), and can now be FULLY considered as a villain. Ergo, now people can also respect her, period. So her act of remorse isn't really the only reason why Trixie would redeem in the eyes of others. It doesn't mean being redeemed in the "becoming good" part, but also in the "Being a good villain" department.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Arcanel

[NavelColt 22,879]

@@~Chaotic Discord~, To respond your good question my friend! I think the loop factor is increased in that, this time, it's LIVING THINGS, we're talking about. This is probably the first time we saw (or Twilight did for that matter) her handling living beings in sucha way. Plus, in the demonstration, she did more than that as well. The loop was just the opening (which I believe the delegates from Saddle Arabia a dn everyone else thoroughly enjoy). Plus, she WAS "threatened" by Fluttershy, so any minimum scratch probably meant a trip straight to live down The Stare.

I still don't think it's that advanced. Even if we use the argument of 'it's not about being flashy, it's about focus', it still is not hard to levitate things, living or non-living, even if it's multiple critters. I just think it'd be cooler if they used something else.

[Lunar Guardian 80]

I thought this episode was very good. It was definitely funny; this episode made me laugh more than any other episode to date.

 

If I was drinking something, I would have spit it out at "I can turn a mare into a stallion!"

[Arcanel 3,041]

I still don't think it's that advanced. Even if we use the argument of 'it's not about being flashy, it's about focus', it still is not hard to levitate things, living or non-living, even if it's multiple critters. I just think it'd be cooler if they used something else.

Oh, it's not the fact that it is hard to pull off. I think the difficulty lies in not making others, you know, crash into each other. The loop formation itself is probably not hard to pull off either way, but with living beings and an attentive friend being ULTRA scared about them, I think that's the difficult part (not wanting to hurt anyone) and why Twilight was so focused. The moment she lost her concentration, it's bad news for the little animals, I think. But on a scale of difficulty itself and out of context, then I agree it wouldn't be so difficult. But probably something harder to do would be something Fluttershy would probably not agree to be done.

[NavelColt 22,879]

Oh, it's not the fact that it is hard to pull off. I think the difficulty lies in not making others, you know, crash into each other. The loop formation itself is probably not hard to pull off either way, but with living beings and an attentive friend being ULTRA scared about them, I think that's the difficult part (not wanting to hurt anyone) and why Twilight was so focused. The moment she lost her concentration, it's bad news for the little animals, I think. But on a scale of difficulty itself and out of context, then I agree it wouldn't be so difficult. But probably something harder to do would be something Fluttershy would probably not agree to be done.

Ah, not making critters hit each other in a conveyor belt infinite loop is a bit tricky. But that's a spacial skill, not so much a focus on the magic. But I guess it's all apart of making your magic better.

 

Makes sense.

 

Still think it could be improved upon.

[Arcanel 3,041]

Still think it could be improved upon.

Oh, you're just being picky and you wanted the circus finale to be even more grand than it was in the end, my picky Discord. Oh well, but yeah, if something more difficult had been done, it would have been nice. But I don't wanna give Fluttershy a heart attack.

 

Besides, she's moving each animal one by one to make the creatures go in that loop form, which I guess requires some hefty concentration. kind of like playing the same chords in a guitar in a rhythm. It's not like there's a predone form where you just put your hand and it goes off. You have to move each finger to each chord, which requires the concentration. Unless you're to put your hand on automatic and forget about anything else while playing. XD

Edited December 2, 2012 by Arcanel

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

 

@, Um...I think you're forgetting something. Aside from Trixie being super annoying, she wan't really a villain and more like a small antagonist in the same way as Gilda. Now she was badder than before, actually posed a threat, looked convincingly evil (complete with great evil laugh (a reason now I love Kathleen Barr), black cape, red eyes, powerful magic and even loss of sanity), and can now be FULLY considered as a villain. Ergo, now people can also respect her, period. So her act of remorse isn't really the only reason why Trixie would redeem in the eyes of others. It doesn't mean being redeemed in the "becoming good" part, but also in the "Being a good villain" department.

 

Indeed. You make a good point; I hadn't actually considered that at first. Having thought about it now, though, I don't place too much weight on it. The reason she had enough power to be a threat and become a "good villain" was due to the amulet, and the power it granted her. The second she removed it, she went back to being ineffective as a villain and became once more a "small antagonist". As Twilight put it: she cheated.

 

This is an entirely different issue, you must understand, from the corruption I mentioned in my post (lest I be accused - see people, that's how to use the word "lest" correctly - of trying to have it both ways.) The corruption was noted to be a gradual change, while the power boost was a constant from the get-go. There was no line saying that the power increases the more you use it, only the corruption.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[NavelColt 22,879]

Oh well, but yeah, if something more difficult had been done, it would have been nice. But I don't wanna give Fluttershy a heart attack.

 

Besides, she's moving each animal one by one to make the creatures go in that loop form, which I guess requires some hefty concentration. kind of like playing the same chords in a guitar in a rhythm. It's not like there's a predone form where you just put your hand and it goes off. You have to move each finger to each chord, which requires the concentration. Unless you're to put your hand on automatic and forget about anything else while playing. XD

She wouldn't need to have one, Fluttershy and her animals wouldn't need to be any part of whatever I'd have been expecting xD Like I said, levitating things was not satisfactory for me. Whatever that vague ideal trick for me might be, it may not need to include living things.

 

I already admitted that making them stay in formation would be tricky.

 

Ah, not making critters hit each other in a conveyor belt infinite loop is a bit tricky. But that's a spacial skill, not so much a focus on the magic. But I guess it's all apart of making your magic better.

Edited December 2, 2012 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[moneyshredderofdeath 414]

I thought it was an alright episode. There were amusing gags like Pinkie's mouth or any of Trixie's magic distortions really, and it was cool to see Zecora get some usage. However, I do feel that the episode could have worked better as a two parter and felt sort of rushed in its ultimate state. I also think Fluttershy was almost a caricature. Yeah, she's shy, but she's made some strides in the past and this episode acted like they never happened. It would've made more sense to me if, say, she was still scared of going to the woods but didn't need her animals to force her to go. The gravity of the situation in itself could have been enough to motivate her to go.

[Arcanel 3,041]

Indeed. You make a good point; I hadn't actually considered that at first. Having thought about it now, though, I don't place too much weight on it. The reason she had enough power to be a threat and become a "good villain" was due to the amulet, and the power it granted her. The second she removed it, she went back to being ineffective as a villain and became once more a "small antagonist". As Twilight put it: she cheated.   This is an entirely different issue, you must understand, from the corruption I mentioned in my post (lest I be accused - see people, that's how to use the word "lest" correctly - of trying to have it both ways.) The corruption was noted to be a gradual change, while the power boost was a constant from the get-go. There was no line saying that the power increases the more you use it, only the corruption.

Well, truth is yeah, she cheated. Well...both of them did in the end somewhat. Like many others said, Twilight beated Trixie using what Trixie was known for. Tricks (Is this word pun or aliteration? ). But she was still powerful enough. There's one thing unseen though. Trixie proved to be too much for Twilight in the beginning, but Twilight used tricks to fake her into letting her know she was more powerful...so the question lies there. Just how more powerful was Trixie than Twilight?

 

Anyway, as for the corruption thing, there's one thing to take in account. We don't really know just how much time did it pass between Trixie wearing the Alicorn Amulet until she got to Ponyville (I don't think she went on teleportation after all). So we don't know just how far the corruption went. As for the initial drive, Trixie probably went one day while working at the rock farm (which, again, could set some nice Pinkie/Trixie rivalry!), and wondering about how bad was she living and stuff (probably in same fashion as Rarity), until the pony who had put her in this position (in her mind) came up to the mind. Twilight Sparkle. After that, who knows just how much money did she have to get (or even steal) to buy something powerful like the Amulet (which she had probably heard of before). After that, it was blind rage by revenge, and after that, few can escape it, I'm sure. Plus, dangerous thing aside, the part of "it corrupts you the more you use it" was probably left out of the explanation (although granted, I think Trixie might have gone with it anyway, probably after some hesitation, but I'd like to think she had been planning for far too lon to get the Amulet to give up anyway, also been wrought with revenge desires).

 

With all that and further corruption of her mind the more she used the Amulet, I think her head was kind of messed up after all that, hence why she was all "In the name of Celestia, what the hay just happened?", probably shocked by Twilight's power, the lack of power from Zecora's necklace AND the take off of the Amulet.

She wouldn't need to have one, Fluttershy and her animals wouldn't need to be any part of whatever I'd have been expecting xD Like I said, levitating things was not satisfactory for me. Whatever that vague ideal trick for me might be, it may not need to include living things.

 

I already admitted that making them stay in formation would be tricky.

Sorry. It's just that, you kinda made it look like it was something slightly easier like my little analogy. That, I can tend to be persistent when I'm analyzing and stuff.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

@@Wingnut,

@@Evilshy,

 

Nice catch with the potential Yu-Gi-Oh references. That did not occur to me in the slightest. Every time I heard them mention "duel," my mind kept running to Revolver Ocelot from Metal Gear Solid---especially in Snake Eater when Ocelot keeps getting schooled by Naked Snake. I doubt there was any intention of referencing MGS with those moments. Yu-Gi-Oh seems legit, though.

 

In contrast, my mind was fixated around Yu-Gi-Oh for much of the episode. While they didn't play with duel monsters cards, the guiding principle of the game held true. Believing in yourself and your cards (in this case, spells/tactics) is the key to victory as cheesy as that might sound.

 

Actually, as a matter of fact, the very first scene of the episode could be taken as a Yu-Gi-Oh reference. In the anime's first episode, Seto Kaiba wanted Yugi's grandpa's Blue-Eyes badly from his game shop and would trade a lot of his already-polished decks for that one card, but Yugi's grandpa refused. In this case, the shopkeeper buckled under pressure when Trixie presented quite the hefty sum of money to him. Another glorious reference by M.A. Larson, in any case.

 

(skip to 3:00)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ61Sj8mFRg

 

Edited December 2, 2012 by Alfonzo Dennard

[~Cider Barrel~ 125]

Rainbow Dash Clone! - What is this Madness! 

[Marcusaralius76 150]

"Hey Trixie, nice amulet!"

 

"Thanks, Pinkie Pie!"

 

"I was being sarcastic."

 

"Well I stole your face!"

[~Cider Barrel~ 125]

Pinkie Pie didn't Deserve to have that, But it did make the Show go alot more smoothly

[Fridge 382]

Blood is now canon

 

Actually blood was canon as of season 2. When future Twilight had a cut on her face.

[Silverhoof 2,844]

The magic shop in the beginning brought to mind the evil magic shop from the Harry Potter movies. (the one where he accidentally ended up after a mishap using the fireplace teleport system)

 

The ending was a bit rushed, and left me unsure of Trixie's sincerity in her apology. (it should have been a two-parter)

I like the Trixie threat looming out in the wilderness. Now she may come back as a sympathetic character. Trixie is the best villain out there! Please keep her as a villain.

 

Lastly. I saw a spoiler fan art where Trixie was chipping away at a rock on the rock farm. At the time I thought, Hooray! Trixie is doing hard time breaking rocks into rubble! She went to jail. Wah. that would have been cool.

[Fridge 382]

So....is there seriously no other episode where they say "alicorn?" I always thought that phrase CAME from the show

 

I just did a google search for the term, I knew it was actually an already existing word so here we go.

 

The word Alicorn (when refering to a winged unicorn) was used in the year 1984 in the book Bearing the hourglass.

 

Apparently the term Unisus also applies

[EpicMuffinTime 216]

I thought the episode was cool, it's kind of nice, actually, to have things go form sweet happiness to dark grimness. That's my opinion anyway, I think it gets kind of annoying when EVERY episode is sparkles and sunshine. I'm not saying I don't like that stuff, I'm saying it gets boring at times. This episode was great. A nice transaction from light to dark. 

[Music Chart Fan 819]

A few illogical/inconsistent things I noticed in the episode:

 

Twilight says that she can't send a letter to Princess Celestia in Saddle Arabia because she needs Spike to do that. But Twilight was talking to Spike and the rest of the Mane Six when they ran over to her immediately after she was banished. Why couldn't Twilight have told Spike to send Celestia a letter then? We know Trixie's bubble around Ponyville is not sound-proof, since Twilight was talking to Spike and the Mane Six as though they could hear her, and later in the episode, Twilight can talk to Trixie through the bubble.

 

Furthermore, even if Twilight didn't tell Spike to send a letter, why wouldn't he or another one of the Mane Six think to do that? Was Trixie's bubble letter-proof? I suppose it could have been (although it would have been nice to establish that), but if that were the case, they could have smuggled Spike out of Ponyville with a letter for him to send to the Princess outside the bubble. Spike could have found Twilight and told her about the amulet as well, or it wouldn't have been too much trouble to sneak someone else out with Spike also.

 

In the first Magic Duel between Twilight and Trixie, the format appears to be that one dueler performs a feat of magic and the other dueler attempts to undo it. Twilight then lost when she failed to undo Trixie's age spell. Therefore, I thought something strange was going on when during the second duel, Twilight did NOT undo Trixie's age spell, but cast her own instead. Furthermore, I'm not sure what the point was of Twilight doing multiple age spells in a row; if she proved she was capable of doing it, isn't that enough? Is it more impressive to perform a difficult spell multiple times in a row? Maybe; it's unclear whether "difficult" magic is difficult because it requires great physical or mental fitness.

 

I guess it must be against the unwritten rules of amulets to wear more than one amulet at one time, since that's what I thought Trixie should have done. Then she would have been twice (or more than twice) as powerful!

 

Why is it particularly impressive for Twilight to levitate ordinary animals in a giant spinning infinity sign in the air? Levitation is about the most common thing that unicorns use their magic for, and I think Twilight has levitated animals before without a fuss. I would think it would be more impressive to levitate large, heavy objects or levitate with great precision.

 

Finally, there was no letter to Princess Celestia about the friendship lesson learned, although maybe Twilight's explanation to Trixie was the substitute for that.