Loving and Tolerating - You're doing it wrong.

[Kitty Cat Moonshire 628]

Sit back and relax. Maybe grab some popcorn, and a drink, because this is going to be a long rant.

Get ready to be lectured.

 

LOVE AND TOLERATE! LOVE AND TOLERATE!

We all know this phrase. It has become the motto of the bronies, a testament to our mission, and a banner of how we should strive to live. Evidently we do not always come through, for after all, we are only humans. We are flawed, just like everything else in this universe. But what sets us apart is the fact that we put forth an effort to making this world a happier place.

 

However, I think some of you have a bit of a messed up idea of what this means. Not all, but some.

 

I am here to tell (some of) you that when it comes to loving and tolerating... You're doing it wrong!

 

Let me define the terms.

Love: For this, being that it is one of the most confusing words in the English language, I am going to define it using my own words. What we are looking at in the brony community is know as agape love, or brotherly love.This is a love that means looking out for one another, helping one another, and caring for one another. 

Love is often confused with tolerance, in the sense that we think 'loving' someone is putting up with whatever they do. That is not the case. That is tolerance, not love.

 

Tolerance: A fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own. (dictionary.com) 

This is the side of the brony culture that allows us to put up with eachothers differences.

 

Now, onto the point.

 

A while back, I was in a conversation with an unnamed brony (he's a great guy, don't get me wrong) and I made a joke saying: "Well someone isn't loving and tolerating ;P," to which he replied: "I love those who love, and I tolerate those who tolerate."

 

Something didn't seem right with that. That's not the meaning of love and tolerance!

 

Well, I thought, maybe it was just him. But as I looked around the forums, around youtube, and all over the internet I began to see more and more of this thinking going on. It was appalling!

 

These are the things that I noticed some bronies doing:

1. Hate towards religion
2. Hate towards the 'clopping' sector of the fandom
3. Hate towards the haters.

There are more, but I only need these for examples. There is only one overarching theme here, and it covers all of this thought process.

 

Hate towards religion:

Religion is one of the most disputed, fight causing topics that has ever existed. People hold very firmly to their beliefs, and because it is a belief, in their mind an alternative is incomprehensible. This happens to everyone. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, Buddhists (They, surprisingly  have a violent history as well), Atheists (yes, in a sense atheism is a religion as well, though in a different way), basically anyone who believes anything to be true about the universe.

I see this all over the forums:

"Christians are terrible."

"Muslims are horrible murderers"

"Atheists have no morals"

"Insert false BS here."

When challenged to love and tolerate these ways of live, the common response is as follows:

"Well they don't do it, it's their fault, wah wah wah, blame blame blame, tu quoque, tu quoque."

 

Well, no shit, sherlock.

 

That is the point! We love! We show them compassion, and acceptance, even if they shun and despise  us! We tolerate their alternate modes of thinking, even if it seems strange of disgusting to us!

 

This applies to all these categories. Trolls, beliefs, and even fans of adventure time, which for some reason seems to be a heated youtube topic (bronies vs adventure time.)

 

But now... THE TWIST!

Yes, there is a flip side to love that most do not consider, and that is addressing others wrong-doings.

If someone is engaging in a harmful activity (whether to themselves or to others) to love them, in this case, is to confront them.

"But that's not tolerating!"

You're putting tolerance above another humans safety? Shame.

For example, let's say someone cuts their wrists, or has a drinking disorder that is wrecking their life.

By confronting them, and helping them to overcome their struggles, you are loving them.

Tolerating their drinking will not help hem. Sometimes tolerance is not what someone needs. Sometimes what they need is a firm "NO," and a shoulder to help them stand.

 

This is what it means to love and tolerate. 

 

NOW GO FORTH, AND LIVE LIKE A BRONY!

 

BROHOOF, EVERYPONY!

 

 

[I used to be a stranger 7,989]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Blue

[Leafeon 2,701]

You do realize, that the people who say "LOVE AND TOLERATE!" constantly are far worse then everyone else, right?

 

If people would shut up, and not say to do such things, we wouldn't have to "Love and Tolerate" in the first place. Not to mention, those treating haters like equal individuals are told to love and tolerate them. I'm not going to needlessly be ridicously kind to someone just because I'm told I should.

 

I wish for this to stop being forced down throats. Good post though.

[Kitty Cat Moonshire 628]

You do realize, that the people who say "LOVE AND TOLERATE!" constantly are far worse then everyone else, right?

 

If people would shut up, and not say to do such things, we wouldn't have to "Love and Tolerate" in the first place. Not to mention, those treating haters like equal individuals are told to love and tolerate them. I'm not going to needlessly be ridicously kind to someone just because I'm told I should.

 

I wish for this to stop being forced down throats. Good post though.

I'm not forcing it down anyone's throats. This is all stuff that I followed, both from personal experience and communications with others before I even knew what MLP was.

[Bucky McGillyCuddy 956]

Love and Tolerate always seemed to be a little trollish to me.

 

I don't hate any of the three things you mentioned although i have to admit i'm quite the atheist and don't agree with religion, but i don't hate it. Cloppers gonna clop just as hatters gonna hate and sure i'd prefer if neither existed, the practice not the people, but lets face it they're not the worlds biggest problem, if they were Earth would be doing pretty well for itself. I don't feel like it's for me to say someone can or can't rub one out over ponies though and I've got things that i like to hate on too so i can't hate on haters for not liking something. Everyone's been a hater at least once in their life and most of the people that are just don't know any better.

 

Pony fandom is crazy fandom.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Bucky_McGillycuddy

[LunaEclipse 101]

You do realize, that the people who say "LOVE AND TOLERATE!" constantly are far worse then everyone else, right?

 

If people would shut up, and not say to do such things, we wouldn't have to "Love and Tolerate" in the first place. Not to mention, those treating haters like equal individuals are told to love and tolerate them. I'm not going to needlessly be ridicously kind to someone just because I'm told I should.

 

I wish for this to stop being forced down throats. Good post though.

 

This is true, I agree.   It's been said that a truly modest person would never say, "I'm modest", while a person who prides themselves on how modest they are, are simply stating a paradox.  And yes, we all also know the saying, "Actions speak louder than words."  No need to excessively reiterate the motto if you just make like Nike and do it. 

 

Of course, I don't think "Love and Tolerate", would mean treating a hater with ridiculous kindness.  I'm not sure I couldn't do that myself.  But I think what's meant is to have a sort of neutral attitude towards them.  As long as we don't stoop down to an ignorant hater's level, then they're the ones who are going to look bad.  

 

As far as what I think of the post, I see what you mean.  I agree, I notice many bronies out there who are being way too overzealous about the motto to the point where they aren't even representing it anymore.  Personally, I try to not preach and flaunt it and instead, just follow it.  Deal with the haters in a mature, classy manner, and keep an open mind towards others.  I've heard that the brony community is a respectable one.  I've heard that we have a lot of talent and a lot to offer while accepting much of the garbage thrown at us, so everyone should try their best to keep it like that.  

 

There's always going to be problems and mistakes and flat-out weird stuff, but the best everyone can do is try their best.  Nice lecture and post. It was a good read.  

[Haven Celestii 9,385]

Yeah....no.

I don't follow this..motto, cause I find it quite stupid.

It's fine when used within the fandom, as we shouldnt be against each other anyway, but when it comes to someone outside who couldn't give two craps about me in any way at all, I'm not just gonna freely be kind to them just cause of a silly motto.

 

I'm not forcing it down anyone's throats. This is all stuff that I followed, both from personal experience and communications with others before I even knew what MLP was.

Keyword: "I"

All stuff YOU follow as a person. Not everyone has to just cause you find it works for you.

And you're "shoving it down throats" by claiming that we who don't follow it, should and it should be done like this.

I agree with you within the fandom. It's just once you step outside and deal with those such as haters that I don't agree with you or the motto at all.

[Kitty Cat Moonshire 628]

Yeah....no.

I don't follow this..motto, cause I find it quite stupid.

It's fine when used within the fandom, as we shouldnt be against each other anyway, but when it comes to someone outside who couldn't give two craps about me in any way at all, I'm not just gonna freely be kind to them just cause of a silly motto.

 

Keyword: "I"

All stuff YOU follow as a person. Not everyone has to just cause you find it works for you.

And you're "shoving it down throats" by claiming that we who don't follow it, should and it should be done like this.

I agree with you within the fandom. It's just once you step outside and deal with those such as haters that I don't agree with you or the motto at all.

I wouldn't expect anyone to follow it because of a motto, I would expect it in the name of decency towards other people. A motto is formed from an idea, not the other way around.

But if you wish to be crass towards others who don't share your opinions, then that's your choice.

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

In my mind, actions speak louder than words...I can go a lot deeper into this, but at the basis or this little saying, it should ring true for anyone who claims 'love and tolerance' in words....let your actions speak for itself

[Princess_Molestia 1,460]

this is the first TV show where fans demand I adopt some sort of belief or mantra, why does watching My Little Pony make me have to change how I act, but Trailer Park Boys or Dragonball not?

the only condition to being an anime fan is well...liking anime

it doesn't come with a bunch of weird requirments

just watch some damn anime

MLP is a TV show, but sometimes people seem to think its way more, when at the end of the day, no its just a TV show.

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

right on Pinkamena....it's just as bad as the public saying "if you play violent video games, you are going to become a violent person"....Same kind of thing.  If you are going to be a fan of My Little Pony, you have to follow pony ways of 'Love and Tolerance" and anyone who doesn't is a troll, hater, etc.  Almost sounds like a cult putting it that way

Being a fan of something and liking something doesn't mean you have to change a part of you in order to conform to fandom standards set by other fans.  MLP ain't a religion, nor it is an organized institution. 

 

btw...Trailer Park Boys....mentioned on an MLP forum....I just about died laughing with such a combination!

Edited February 27, 2013 by Treble Bolt

[Fluffy Pinkie 417]

I always thought of the motto "Love and Tolerate to a certain extent". Personally I like the motto because in my opinion it can be used in real life. I've heard bronies say it's kinda stupid but i don't think Trying to bring a sense of peace is really stupid that just makes it sound like you enjoy conflict or maybe  an unreasonable person in my opinion.(not saying everybody who doesn't want to follow "Love and tolerate" is unreasonable or a person who enjoys conflict.

 

People should just learn to accept others opinions without hating on it, sure maybe you disagree with their choices or views but as long as it isn't causing them any physical harm or mental harm why should you care. People should have debates sure but without hating each other and with an open mind to both sides viewpoints. This may help improve your understanding about a certain subject and or those type of people in general.

 

And if you really hate somebody's viewpoints and you know you can't talk about it without blowing up, then maybe it's best if you just drop the conversation(Though you have every right to continue it, but why stress yourself and other out and ruin your current or possible future relationship with said person?)

 

"Love and tolerate" Doesn't mean you should be kind to every person no matter what it just means try to get inside their head and understand their reasons for thinking in said way. "Love and Tolerate" doesn't mean that you don't defend yourself if others talk about you it just means defend yourself in a smart way. If somebody bashes on you for watching MLP don't curse them out simply say so or have you even watched it yet then you have no right to judge.

[Princess_Molestia 1,460]

right on Pinkamena....it's just as bad as the public saying "if you play violent video games, you are going to become a violent person"....Same kind of thing.  If you are going to be a fan of My Little Pony, you have to follow pony ways of 'Love and Tolerance" and anyone who doesn't is a troll, hater, etc.  Almost sounds like a cult putting it that way

Being a fan of something and liking something doesn't mean you have to change a part of you in order to conform to fandom standards set by other fans.  MLP ain't a religion, nor it is an organized institution. 

 

btw...Trailer Park Boys....mentioned on an MLP forum....I just about died laughing with such a combination!

I once made a joke-fanfic crossing the two over... it was truly insane

(Rairty was largely the same, Rainbow Dash was like Ricky, though for some reason seemed to think she needed a car to get around and why Rarity had such an ugly auto is beyond me, Fluttershy more or less herself

it was a ball to write

[Rainbow Dash 1,471]

I tried to stick to this motto but then it dawned on me. No one is capable of constant tolerance or love. Why? Because you are all humans thats why. If you hate something and try to tolerate it you will eventually lash out against it. I will admit though, that this little mantra among the community made me have some hope for society. Expecting everyone to stick to it is asking a bit too much. just my opinion though.

[Treble Bolt 1,122]

I tried to stick to this motto but then it dawned on me. No one is capable of constant tolerance or love. Why? Because you are all humans thats why. If you hate something and try to tolerate it you will eventually lash out against it. I will admit though, that this little mantra among the community made me have some hope for society. Expecting everyone to stick to it is asking a bit too much. just my opinion though.

 

As with anything that can improve this world, it doesn't hurt to try.  Don't expect things to always be good, that will never happen but that doesn't mean you can't try to make things better...

[NavelColt 22,877]

This thread appears to be related to the My Little Pony franchise and/or the Bronydom in general. Thus, it has been sentenced to Sugarcube Corner.

 

This is an automatically generated message, by the way.

[Unique Pinkie Pie 173]

the motto ain't written in brony law you know

so you dont need to follow it

and plus it doesn't need to be used all the time

its just a metaphor to ignore most haters

anyway the vid below is people doing it wrong

 

[Powderpuff 390]

I've always tried to follow the principle behind it. It's a good, healthy way to treat others. But I don't really need a fandom and its overstated motto to guide me. It's about being a good person, not a good brony.

[Scootalove 10,684]

I know we are trying to use that quote to, try to feel better about ourselves vs. haters. But, the thing is I follow that quote but, when I go against haters it does not go so well. Either fists are flying or, the hater's blood is on the floor. I know I'm suppose to Love and Tolerate to not use violence. But great post, though. Haters can get the buck out.

[Dusty Soul 2,611]

Love and Tolerating, while many people despise it, is a true phrase to me, and honestly this is quite possibly one of the truest things I've ever seen.  I try to follow it.  Most people dislike it because the people who do use it, use it wrong.  

[Jinx 2,292]

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to follow it because of a motto, I would expect it in the name of decency towards other people. A motto is formed from an idea, not the other way around.

 

It works better as an ideal. Everyone reacts to situations differently, so there can't be one set of rules to follow. Tolerance should be earned, not given out freely.

 

Just try to be a good person, that's all you need to do.

[Sugar Cube 4,843]

Well, for starters, not everyone in the fandom practices love and tolerance. It doesn't matter if you're a brony or a non-brony, love and tolerance is a choice. I choose to live my life by showing love and tolerance regardless of whether I'm a fan of the show or not.

 

People who hate the show do not bother me, because they probably have never given it a chance, and even if they did, why should I care if they do or don't like it? I admit, I don't love every troll on YouTube who comes in just to drop snarky responses and post spam messages, but I definitely can tolerate them. They're not hurting me in any way. So they don't like the show? Their loss.

 

Religion is something that shouldn't be discussed. I think it should just be kept to one's self, because there's loads of different religions, and everyone has the entitlement to believe any way they choose to believe, and they deserve to believe that way without being judged or harassed by someone with conflicting views. I have no problem with any religions. I don't have problems with atheists. If they believe differently, then I am completely fine with it. Everyone is an individual.

 

Cloppers, I admit, are not my favorite people to hang around with depending on the level of the behavior. That said, they're not doing anyone any harm by clopping, therefore I can tolerate them. I can talk to a clopper and still smile and laugh with them, I just wouldn't have any interest in some of their personal choices.

 

As for cutters and suicidal people, I must say I have no experience with people in those situations, but the mature and smart thing to do would be to offer them a kind hand and some warm words of advice. Try and make them smile. Try to understand their pain and what is making them hurt. There's an old saying that no act of kindness however small is ever wasted. You may not be able to make much of a difference with someone in a dark situation like that, but the effort it would take to try is probably very minimal. Who knows? You could end up saving someone's life.

 

Okay, enough rambling. I'm not even sure where I'm going with this all. I try to practice love and tolerance myself, but remember, no one is perfect. Everyone is bound to make mistakes at some point. There's also fans of the show who could care less about love and tolerance, and while that might seem out of place in this fandom, that's their decision. And there will always be those who border on being hypocritical, but again, that's just being human and making mistakes. Learn from them, and learn to love and tolerate those who make these mistakes.

[MrHaru 217]

I try following it the most when I realize I'm about to blow up at someone. Otherwise I'm just blunt about my feelings, and for those that know me personally know that I can be -very- blunt.

 

It mostly depends on the circumstances of which I use it.

 

But I am trying to become a much better person as I was honestly at least encouraged to be better thanks to the fandom and the show itself and if 2012 was to have taught me anything, it's that it's always worth it.

[~Starlight~ 764]

Even though that was long it was totally worth reading! It took me a while but I already follow this but others, well don't but not all bronies have to follow it! So people can just be bronies with out slogans; but I still follow it!

[Freewave 1,145]

No one is saying we have to love & tolerate HATERS. Then it's just a matter of IGNORING them and moving. Love & tolerate is something you do for fellow bronies or for people who aren't showing you hatred. All goes back to the golden rule.

 

Of course other communities have offered different mantras in the past if you are tired of love & tolerance. There is PLUR which was the the rave mantra.

P is for Peace, because Hostility serves no purpose
L is for Love, goodwill towards another
U is for unity, We are united together.
R is for Respect, you should care about each other

or for those who can't stand mantra's there is always "don't be a dick to others". A little simpler but just as effective.